iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

landowner and logger timber prices

Started by woodman1876, February 08, 2016, 05:31:43 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

woodman1876

When a log is taken to the mill and a check is written.
How much goes to the logger?
How much to the truck driver? (if contracted out)
How much for the landowner?
Is veneer a different rate?
I didn't know if it was a standard price or a percentage deal. Ive seen it both ways but that was years ago. This is for hardwood lumber and pulp no softwoods if that matters.
thanks

coxy

its all different 30% 40% 50% depends on the wood  nice hard wood will go 40- 50% depending on how hard it is to get out I some times ask land owners to help if I have to put in stone or other things if there getting 50% I think its fair   trucking comes off the top before any thing is split   same with veneer 

BargeMonkey

Exactly what he said. Anywhere from 40-50% usually. Regionally I think things are done a little diff, here I have wagner come pick it up, landowner is welcome to stand in the cold and watch the scaler.  :D 

Mountaynman

same thts here how long is the skid, how steep the ground, how good is the wood, how much road building, gravel and landing construction, top lopin for the deer hunters, how extensive of a cleanup are we working on a class a trout stream could go on and on
Semi Retired too old and fat to wade thru waist deep snow hand choppin anymore

woodman1876

Doesn't seem worth it log your property with prices so low. Its a once or twice a lifetime thing Id rather hold out as a landowner.

Mountaynman

you could hire a forester have him mark it give him 15% and have him watch over the sale sometimes it is amazing what mills will pay for standing timber I don't get the same for logs cut and put roadside or delivered to the mill for that matter if you don't like the bids you can through it out and not do anything except pay the forester for his time
Semi Retired too old and fat to wade thru waist deep snow hand choppin anymore

ga jones

You can hold out til it's dead too. Trees are like humans they have a life span.  once there past there prime the older they get the quality goes down and does the value. We see it a lot here.
380c timberjack c4 treefarmer international trucks jonsered saws. Sugi hara bars d31 komatsu 350 tj grapple

BargeMonkey

 Foresters and sawmill bought wood.  >:(  bad subject today. Had 6 bids on this last job I walked, I was 2nd highest. Wagners was 2x what mine was. I don't think for a second that 1 extra ounce of effort will go into the job, they will cut the best and run. They just cut 2 other local jobs, left - girdled half of it, then I read on hear about landowners crying about proper management.
Another logger who I've recently met off the FF had an interesting quote, "don't make the landowner your partner". What's fair is fair, but paying 60-70% on stumpage is almost unheard of around here. Certain lots, which require a short skid, awesome wood, you could justify more if conditions where right.

ga jones

 Barge monkey you know the new mill cuts 100,000 board feet a day. big mill big mouth to feed. It's hard to compete with that. if they want it bad enough they'll buy it.However, one hand washes the other.
380c timberjack c4 treefarmer international trucks jonsered saws. Sugi hara bars d31 komatsu 350 tj grapple

BargeMonkey

 They said that mill is the most efficient on the east coast. 12mbdft an hr is what I'm being told, with the other head saw running it gets up over 20. It's a double edge sword, just about everyone around here is feeding them wood. My relative cuts 2-3mil for them a yr, on ground I want no part off. For 210.00 per MBFT I'm half tempted to jump on the bus.

ga jones

380c timberjack c4 treefarmer international trucks jonsered saws. Sugi hara bars d31 komatsu 350 tj grapple

thecfarm

I usually go 50%. The first time I had it cut,I got 60%. I've had my cut 3 times so far,170 acres and I got quite a chunk of change. And then some. I have heard of other people that had they land cut by other so called loggers. I say so called because I can tell by the way they talked,they did not get much money. But I had and still have some good trees to cut. The last time he did a thinning,did not get as much money as the other 2 times.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

treeslayer2003

Quote from: woodman1876 on February 08, 2016, 07:05:06 PM
Doesn't seem worth it log your property with prices so low. Its a once or twice a lifetime thing Id rather hold out as a landowner.
what you mean prices are low? hard wood prices are good, pine is down from what it was a few years ago but it all fluctuates. don't pay any attention to rumors.

jwilly3879

Part of the problem is explaining in a clear fashion the difference between logs and pulpwood to the landowner. They see a load of pulp and think it should pay the same as a load of nice logs.

I try to educate them on the difference. The best way I have found so far is to explain that logs are used to make lumber and that pulp is used to make paper or fuel. They seem to get it then.

woodman1876

Cherry and red oak are half the price they were about 10 years ago. Ive talk to loggers who said they selling wood for the same price they did 20 years ago. Hard and soft maple is up though.

ga jones

There was a period where it was over valued and consequently a correction. Those extremely high prices will never return IMO...
380c timberjack c4 treefarmer international trucks jonsered saws. Sugi hara bars d31 komatsu 350 tj grapple

treeslayer2003

Quote from: woodman1876 on February 09, 2016, 08:11:40 AM
Cherry and red oak are half the price they were about 10 years ago. Ive talk to loggers who said they selling wood for the same price they did 20 years ago. Hard and soft maple is up though.
i'v not seen any thing drop that far except pine. and i agree that won't go back to the all time high.

BargeMonkey

 Ok, I got it now.  You got your woodlot walked by a couple local loggers and didn't like what you heard, so you figured you would ask on here hoping for the answer you really wanted. Fair enough.
"Half" isn't quite right, yes oak is coming back but not what it was. Cherry is ok. HM and SM are paying but what's great $$$ ???
A decent reputable logger / forester can make or break your woodlot. Around here a cut every 10-15yrs is common, working around and releasing the good stuff that's not quite ready. Taking the highest bid blindly has worked out great for alot of landowners, if you read the past threads you can see that.  :D 
So much goes into it, from proper harvesting techniques, bucking for grade and knowing what logs to sell to which mill. Utilization is key, and it varies greatly by region. I willing to bet 99% of us on here have more wood / work than we can handle, didn't get there by paying more than the stuff was worth. I average 2-3 woodlots a month I walk, some I buy and some I walk away from.

woodman1876

Not quite had trees sold 20 years ago. Cherry was 650 now its 570. 1 dollar twenty years ago was worth a lot more than 1 dollar today. I'm sure your guys cost for fuel manpower equipment etc has gone up a lot over the years and the price of timber hasn't keep pace. I know a lot of loggers came and went when during that high price boom. Was your cut (logger) less during those years with timber prices were high and now your share is more of a % to stay fair for your logging costs?

treeslayer2003

no......i'd say most all of us take our % of falling price just like the land owner. in other words the land owner still gets 50% no matter the price.
what makes you think you know what the prices are doing if your not in the industry? like i said, do not pay attention to rumors, they are just that.

finding the trail

   I'm in agreement with Woodsman on this.  I'm not a fan of percentage contracts. I did do one about a year ago though.  I received 30% of the delivered price and I did the hauling. That's 30% on the pulp/ firewood, 30% on the veneer sold direct to the manufacturer,  30% on the sawlogs. It was steep ground , a long skid, much of it uphill . It was not slamming timber, it was above average in size and quality, heavy to SM  with RO being #2 . My goal was about 200mbf To CSH  which is in line with the market price.  Landowners have a tough time making $ as  timber is not a great investment. Being that timber/ logs/ lumber are a commodity it is subject to pricing that has nothing to do with time but timing.  I'll put on my hard hat.

ga jones

Number 2 logs maybe 570. If your woods are full of low grade then you can't expect much. Quality hardwoods average considerably higher than that.
380c timberjack c4 treefarmer international trucks jonsered saws. Sugi hara bars d31 komatsu 350 tj grapple

ga jones

There is plenty of pricing on this forum if you look hard enough. without knowledge of the wood lot local, quality of the timber, (judged by someone who knows)and effort of removing it.( WV isn't exactly flat and urban)there is no way of giving hard numbers. IMO
380c timberjack c4 treefarmer international trucks jonsered saws. Sugi hara bars d31 komatsu 350 tj grapple

treeslayer2003

landowners have a hard time making money on their timber? i suppose the evil logger is rolling in money, what with all the free equipment and fuel and insurance and what not.

finding the trail


Thank You Sponsors!