john deere fuel injection pump parts

[duckslayingpro]

hello all,
Had some problems with the fuel injection pump last weekend. make a long story short took it the the transfer pump and cap off on the injection pump. put it back together got skidder started again finally. ran horrible check fuel had signs of water in it. so i drained it and put fresh fuel in it. still missing really bad/very low power. then i heard a noise and skidder died today. looked at injection pump and the cap is split. www.jdparts.com sais the part is no longer available i really don't want to buy a remanufactured pump over this cap (jd part# R45047) and a maybe a few internal parts. as i don't need a whole rebuilt pump. any ideals or know where to check for parts would be awesome.
this is a jd 440a or b. i think a but not sure.
any help is greatly appreciated. thanks again

i have not got to take back apart to see what other parts yet but i dont think it would be just one or 2 parts. will know more tomorrow.

[fishpharmer]

Welcome to FF!  Whereabouts you slay them ducks!  I used to slay a few myself, not so mad at them anymore. 

Unfortunately I can't help with the skidder.

[snowstorm]

ok first off if its an a or b 440 jd its a 4 219. never saw one that didnt have a transfer pump but its not part of the injection pump.if its a early a it could still have the small injection pump tho unlikely. most were peplaced 25 yrs. ago . not sure what your calling a cap?or how you broke it. pic??

[Magicman]

Good luck with your JD and Welcome to the Forestry Forum.

[duckslayingpro]

thanks for the replies, duck hunt in semo.
the john deere parts website sias fuel injection pump transfer and cap. (myself i always thought the transfer pump was on the right hand side of engine by the filter?) neways where it is broke at is the "cap" going into the injection pump where the fuel line from the filter actually starts going into the pump. will try to get some pics today as fixing to go to the woods and take the off the broke parts. will get pics b4 i take them off so you will know what i am talking about. thank you guys very much.
wish everyone a merry christmas

[chet]

Duck, I have an entire pump that came off a working 2010c. I was told that the 2010's and 440's may have used the same engine? This pump is a roosamaster.  I also have the manual for all the roosamaster pumps.

[beenthere]

Here is the 440 injection pump with a couple Roosamaster's listed.

[sandhills]

Never touch an injection pump!  At least that's what I've always been told about my tractors etc. and after having trouble with one this last spring and seeing it torn apart I now know why.  Unless you are specifically trained to do this it's much easier, and cheaper to take it to someone who is.  Don't ask me how I know this :(.  1200 dollars later and she purrs like a kitten :.
Oh and welcome to the forestry forum Duckslayer, and Merry Christmas!

[snowstorm]

hes right dont touch it if you dont know what your doing. some things can be replaced and some must go to a fuel shop

[snowstorm]

you took the cover off the pump???why?? then it broke when you started it? find someone that knows injection pumps . if you take it off it must be retimed.

[doghunter]

before you remove the pump you must time the engine by putting the timing pin in the hole in the flywheel ithink its on the right side of the bellhousing it looks like a little cover with one bolt holding it on the bolt is the timing pin turn the engine until you see a hole for the pin insert the pin then remove the timing cover on the injection pump [on the side there are two small flathead screws that hold a cover on ]if three lines are lined up then remove the pump if no line in the center remove the pin rotate the engine one revolution reinsert pin and you should be in time to remove and reinstall the pump this will save a lot of headaches later 

[Bobus2003]

Don't hold me too it, but i believe the Cap you broke is the same as the ones found on the IDI 6.9l and 7.3l Ford Used in the '83-'93 Trucks.. Easy little sucker to break..

you took the cover off the pump???why?? then it broke when you started it? find someone that knows injection pumps . if you take it off it must be retimed.

If you take the cover off and replace the Govenor spring.. You can get them to Keep Fueling higher than stock, providing higher RPMs.. Did this to mine in my truck, and skidder.. Along with adjusting the Fuel Screw and tweeked timing.. You can squeeze out some hidden power, just don't get wild

[loggit]

We had trouble with our injector pump on our 440a. If you have the old style, roosa-master, they told me they are pretty much obsolete. They wanted to update ours but then we would have to reline it also. New pump and lines were fairly expensive to got that route tho.

We found someone who services injector pumps but couldn't fix it. However he
knew someone out of state who he shipped it to as he messes with and has the parts for them. Cost about $800 to get it rebuilt. And yeah like they say it must be retimed.

[duckslayingpro]

well got it all took off this morning. after seen the damage went ahead and took off the entire pump. i know it will have to be timed back to the engine.
took the cap and stuff off because accidentally ran the skidder out of fuel (had some water in the fuel and was froze at the filter didn't know it started the skidder early in the morning to let it warm up ran for about 1-2min. then died)
after got everything thawed out could not get from pump to injector lines to injectors. so i thought the strainer underneath that cap may of had ice in it or was clogged. also pulled the blade transfer out to look at them (actually a friend who was with me took this off while i was doing other things to skidder) anyway assume he didn't get these back in right is why i am at the problem im at now. come to find out it was the ground wire for the electric  solenoid fuel shutoff was broke. got a new ground wire fixed that, finally got the skidder started. made a few drags that was when i noticed the significant loss of power and everything. tried to bleed the system again (thought there might still be air in lines from running out of fuel)  driving it after bleeding it again to see if it helped it any is when the above problem happened.
the little rods at the end of the houseing 2 of them are completly broke off plus the blades are gone (the blades with the springs. and a few other parts are gone.
thanks again for any help or where to take it to posibly be fixed i guess i will try Schaefer Enterprises to see if they have a rebuilt pump less i could just find these parts to replace.

I know when this one was put back together he didn't get it back together right by the way it was when i took it apar this time to look at it.

here is a pic of the pump on  the skidder and 2 pics of skidder. hood and muffler is only off right now becuase of working on it right now. i dont run it with the hood or muffler off.

[duckslayingpro]

https://forestryforum.com/gallery/index.php?cat=24230
here is a link on the forum here

if someone tells me how i will just post the pics on here to where you dont have to open another page. also is this an A or B model 440. thanks

[duckslayingpro]

also model number is J9DB24545

[snowstorm]

ita an A

[fishpharmer]

duckslayer, go to your gallery and open a picture you want to post (I usually do this in another window from where the post is displayed).  Scroll down under the pic, I have had best success copying the code and pasting it onto my reply page.  Kinda like this...

[Bandmill Bandit]

There are several  heavy/AG equipment wrecker in Saskatchewan.  They been around for a lot of years and probably would have a pump you could bolt on and go.

http://www.farmnetservices.com/salvage/SASKATCHEWAN_FARM_MACHINERY_EQUIPMENT_SALVAGE_&_USED_TRACTOR_PARTS/54-0.html  

Contrary to the what the web sit may say all of those wreckers are in SK. The one at Humbolt is been around of years and i have dealt with them in the past. They ship North America wide.

That looks like the same pump that was used on the older 310 and 410 back hoes. possibly the 350/450 track loader too.

[snowstorm]

350 dozier is 3 cyl.410 ...450 same motor as skidder. the pump you have is not the one that was on that skidder when it was built. yours is much newer.

[Bandmill Bandit]

350 dozier is 3 cyl.410 ...450 same motor as skidder. the pump you have is not the one that was on that skidder when it was built. yours is much newer.

I forgot that the 350 was a 3 banger. I think the 310 hoe was too.

[duckslayingpro]

thanks for all the help guys. i have looked at the pump some more and it actually is a stanadyne db2 model 2500rpm
i found another one that is new for only $202 but is only 1800rpm. i would think that i should probably stick with the 2500 rpm but what do you guys think. any estimates on what this would cost to be rebuilt or will to look for another identical one new. the one i found is on ebay. also. when i get this one fixed or another one bought do i still need to time it in the same manner i would if was original. i do have the 440 tech and parts manual also for a little instruction but anymore help is greatly appreciated. you guys have been great glad i found this place.

[sandhills]

It has been my experience that you can by a rebuilt unit, and get warranty for about the same price as repairing or rebuilding one and not getting the warranty.  That is with a core exchange, and yes any pump you put back on will have to be timed properly.

[tjdub]

thanks for all the help guys. i have looked at the pump some more and it actually is a stanadyne db2 model 2500rpm
i found another one that is new for only $202 but is only 1800rpm. i would think that i should probably stick with the 2500 rpm but what do you guys think. any estimates on what this would cost to be rebuilt or will to look for another identical one new. the one i found is on ebay. also. when i get this one fixed or another one bought do i still need to time it in the same manner i would if was original. i do have the 440 tech and parts manual also for a little instruction but anymore help is greatly appreciated. you guys have been great glad i found this place.

If you're brave enough to try to tackle rebuilding it yourself, see jdemaris's comments in this thread:

http://www.jdcrawlers.com/messageboard/viewtopic.php?t=3167

The thread is actually about a DB2 3cyl pump, but the points he makes are the same.  In my opinion, you're better having your own pump rebuilt or doing it yourself.  I have a good diesel shop in my area that is reasonable, so I would rather pay the extra bucks because I know I would probably mess it up

The reason you can't find the parts at Deere is because Deere doesn't even bother rebuilding pumps themselves, they just truck them over to the nearest diesel shop and have them do it.   All the parts come from Standyne anyway.

[grassfed]

The pump that is on your skidder is not the correct pump for a 440a or b skidder.

This could mean that someone replaced the pump and lines on the original motor or that you do not have the original motor.

From the picture it looks to me like a pump that comes on some 4239 or maybe a 4276 called a DB2 the original pump is a CB or a JDB.

I have a parts 440b skidder with a 4219t that someone put the DB2 pump and lines from a 4239 and it looks sort of like yours.

Here is a link to a page that shows the correct pumps for a 440A.
http://www.spencerdiesel.com/dieselwarehouse/IND_Apps.asp?Make=5&Model=440A&DLR=7100  

The "little pumps" were the CB pump and they were the ones that went Obsolete decades ago.

Notice in the link that where the fuel lines attach to the pump is on the side not the back of the pump like the one in your picture. Also the front of the pump where it attaches to the timing cover is round on the flange on the correct pump. I know that the 4239 has a triangle flange and I can tell that the pump in your picture is angular and not round.
You should check the numbers on the engine and the pump carefully before you order parts.

One more thing there is a pump on eBay that is for a 440C (4276) that looks a lot like yours. If you have a 4276 it might be a good deal for you.

http://cgi.ebay.com/John-Deere-440c-log-skidder-fuel-injection-pump-reman-/120518171673?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c0f715c19

[duckslayingpro]

how can i tell which engine i have for sure. the 219 or 276. would the pump on ebay work on mine? the one on ebay is 300rpm less. gonna matter much?

[doghunter]

there should an engine serial # tag on your engine

[duckslayingpro]

i went to woods and looked at the engine. it is a 239 engine non turbo. will the pump on ebay work since it is off of a 276 C model? the rebuild shop quoted me $1200 for the rebuild.  the one on ebay is 300rpm less than my pump woll that make alot of difference? thanks for all the help again.

[tjdub]

i went to woods and looked at the engine. it is a 239 engine non turbo. will the pump on ebay work since it is off of a 276 C model? the rebuild shop quoted me $1200 for the rebuild.  the one on ebay is 300rpm less than my pump woll that make alot of difference? thanks for all the help again.

I don't think it will work.  Some of the early 440 skidders and 450 crawlers came with the round C pump, but they were quickly phased out and Deere sold mounting kits to retrofit on the rectangular DB pump like you have on when they went bad. 

$1200 seems outrageous to me.  I'm sure you could find a better price even if you have to ship it somewhere to have it done.  This place quotes $325.00 for the labor and leaves the parts quote open to what needs to be replaced. 

http://www.adiesel.com/pumps.html

I haven't done business with them, but that price seems more what I would expect.

[Ed_K]

Last summer i replaced a turbo on my friends 540d and it was $1027. brand new with old one given back to John Deere.

[doghunter]

the 239 engines dont have piston cooling nozzles in the block so they are very sensitive to overfueling you should probably stick with an oem pump or have your rebuilder set it according to oem specs 1200 seems high to me look around on the internet for a better deal
doghunter

[duckslayingpro]

has anyone ever dealt with Oregon fuel injection? they have  rebuilt fuel pumps (exact one for my engine) for $595 plus $500 core. sounds like a pretty good deal. the place that quoted me $1200 said that was because my head and rotor will have to be replace in mine also. he said that would be $500. sounded expensive to me also that is why he doesn't have it right now. john deer will sell a new one or (rebuilt new didn't ask which) for $1450 - $200 core. so a new one with warranty for $1250 sounds better than the $1200 to have this one rebuilt.

[Bobus2003]

has anyone ever dealt with Oregon fuel injection? they have  rebuilt fuel pumps (exact one for my engine) for $595 plus $500 core. sounds like a pretty good deal. the place that quoted me $1200 said that was because my head and rotor will have to be replace in mine also. he said that would be $500. sounded expensive to me also that is why he doesn't have it right now. john deer will sell a new one or (rebuilt new didn't ask which) for $1450 - $200 core. so a new one with warranty for $1250 sounds better than the $1200 to have this one rebuilt.

Seem expensive no matter what... DB2 injector pumps are pretty common, wouldn't think it would cost that much too have it rebuilt or to find a rebuilt one on a shelf somewhere.. Going to Deere for anything will always be expensive.. Had a $400 muffler from JD last year for my 550G Dozer

[Ed_K]

They quoted me $700 for the 540d muffler.