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General Forestry => Sawmills and Milling => Topic started by: MikeySP on January 30, 2019, 05:14:30 PM

Title: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on January 30, 2019, 05:14:30 PM
Greetings! I am looking for some fatherly advice. If your son had a sawmilll and he wanted to learn how to use it and make money using it, and he asked for a time sensitive education track so he could be economically viable as soon as possible without doing violence to his reputation for quality...what would your counsel be?

I have the mill and I am going to give it a go, so how do I give it a good go?... Thanks dad!  :D

I got a very good deal on a 2011 Woodmizer LT35HD25G with 500 hours, one owner, hobbyist. Arrived home an hour ago and called woodmizer to register in my name. Seller was very kind, but was not able to teach me, so I am at about zero and want to arrive at hero... or at least graduate elementary school in the most expeditious manner.

My current plan:

Equipment I have:

I can have asap as it makes sense

Is there anyone who has made a steps on how to be successful at this thread? I have been a civil government employee for most of my life and now I have to learn how to serve my neighbor, so he will reward me with his business.

I would be glad to call and take notes also.

We will be milling our own timber for our projects: pole barn shop, house for us, house for son.
Additionally want to take on milling work and find the market needs that we might be able to serve in.

My goal is to have a customer in two weeks time from now.

Thank you. -Mike

My new to me sawmill:


(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51882/20190130_144129~2.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1548899477)
 

Sorry, I tried to make this photo upright, but an evil conspiracy sabotaged me. :) (Note from Admin:  Got you straightened out).  Isn't it beautiful? Trees beware!

-Mike
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: charles mann on January 30, 2019, 05:25:55 PM
CONGRATS sir. now, if you could just flip your pic 180į, it'll be easier to see your success. 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: RichTired on January 30, 2019, 06:22:12 PM
Woodmizer-South in Newnan, Ga is having an open house this Saturday Feb 2 from 8:30am until 11:30am. 
Demos on both manual and hydraulic mills.
Call 777.251.4894 to RSVP.
Expert sawmill consultants to talk with during this time period as well as other saw mill owners.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: randy d on January 30, 2019, 06:41:35 PM
Google your mill and watch as many videos as you can Woodmizer has a bunch of good ones go slow take your time and try to select some nice straight logs  and not real big to start with looks like you got a great deal. Randy
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: tawilson on January 30, 2019, 06:50:43 PM
I saw this a few weeks ago in another thread here: Save your first board. I wish I had.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: terrifictimbersllc on January 30, 2019, 07:06:24 PM
I'd make sure I got the mill figured out, properly adjusted and maintained, blades, tools and other supplies on hand and saw a few of my own logs before advertising for work.  

 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: WV Sawmiller on January 30, 2019, 07:14:31 PM
   You might see how far away Nathan @123maxbars (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=15380) is from you. He has the same mill and turns out some real pretty work (and some cool videos). Any time you might spend off-bearing for him would be time well spent. Good luck and congratulations.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Dad2FourWI on January 30, 2019, 07:20:36 PM
It sounds like you are right on.... volunteer to help other sawyers and ask questions until they "almost get mad"... :D :D

Watch, ask and listen and you will be up and running quickly!

We did not have anyone nearby to learn from but the people here were so patient and a wealth of information!!

When we run into a problem, we grab the manual and head here to the forum! LOL!

Then, when you have watched and asked.... start slow and small and allow yourself to "just go for it"!!!

Start with logs that are not "select"... and make some dust.... and then just keep learning from anyone and everyone.

.... and maybe the most important thing is to enjoy and have fun.... I LOVE the view from my "office"... it's right in my millshed walking behind the control head of my LT40!!!  ;D

Cheers!
-Dad2FourWI

Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Crossroads on January 30, 2019, 07:55:12 PM
Congratulations! Step 1) rotate picture in gallery. At bottom left of picture there should be a blue button that says rotate 90į. If your turning out clean flat boards after that 40 hour crash course, put an add on Facebook and Craigís list. Just be honest with any potential customers about your experience and give them an honest days work. Good luck! 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: terrifictimbersllc on January 30, 2019, 08:22:35 PM
p.s. forgive my manners.  Congratulations & all the best! It will be fun to hear your stories.  :P :P :P
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Southside on January 30, 2019, 09:00:09 PM
I would say you have a really good plan there.  Couple things I can add having started with a 35.  The air cleaner on these really sucks in the dust given the location, keep the foam pre-cleaner on it and clean it out daily.  It will take two minutes but will keep your performance where you need it to be and will keep the filter lasting longer.  I would change the spark plugs and fuel filter if they have not been done recently too, not a lot of hours, but a few years there, that really woke up my saw and improved fuel economy.  

Learn to listen to your saw, you will be able to hear the engine and know when you are pushing it too hard and when a band is getting dull.  Don't push a dull band - change it just as it starts to begin to get dull - there is no value in trying to "finish the log" you are on or just getting a couple more cuts.  

You will be able to hear the band in the wood and the noise it makes on the rollers, this will also help with knowing when to change it, but also tells you if you need more water on the band or not.  

Pick up a spare set of B57 belts and keep them with the mill - they are the ones that go on the drive wheels, also keep a spare drive belt, drive and idler bearings, along with guide bearings.  It does not take too much to over tension the band and you will cause a bearing to fail if you do that too much.  The bearings are cheap and not hard to replace right there at a customer location with a few basic tools, saves having to come back to finish a job.  On your mill all those parts are very reasonably priced.  

Did your mill come with bands?  WM will tell you that the Turbos won't work on your mill, all I will say is that is the only profile I have for my 35, with the exception of a couple carbides that are used with the re-saw attachment.  I would sign up with the re-sharp program and take advantage of the auto-fill, auto-replace program where they put a new band in your box if one can't be sharpened and you always get a full box back.  The bands are replaced at a bulk discount price and the shipping is the same if they send you 1 band or 15 in a box, so this way your actual cost per band is lower.  

I realize that you just spent a pile of cash and I am telling you to fork over a bit more, but this will save you time and money as you get to sawing, down time can be a real killer.  

As far as the "what" for jobs, I have found that being the guy who makes the stuff nobody else makes keeps me busier than I want to be.  Folks will call and say they need cheap 2x4's - I tell them to go to Lowes.  If everyone around is "selling" slabs - I am not sawing any, there is no need to be just another price option.  Find what is missing in your market and the work will come to you.  Don't get me wrong, I don't refuse work if someone wants me to bring the mill to them and saw 2x4's then that is what they are going to get, but I don't put my time and resources into trying to merchandise stuff everyone else is selling.  

Best of luck and enjoy the new adventure!!!  
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: doc henderson on January 30, 2019, 09:04:02 PM
I AM TOO YOUNG OR ELSE YOU ARE TOO OLD FOR ME TO BE YOUR FATHER.  Your plan sounds great, thinking like that , you are half way there.  word of mouth, people will start calling you up.  You can try harder when you are needing more to do.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: WV Sawmiller on January 30, 2019, 09:54:15 PM
   In line with Southside's suggestions keep a spare power feed belt too. They are quick and easy to change but sure make life a lot easier if you need one and have it there handy. I keep my belts in box with my bands.

(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/IMG_0379~2.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1548903119)
 Frame and hinges on my band boxes.

(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/IMG_0386~0.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1548903159)
 Finished boxes. Belts coiled in between the bands travel well.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Southside on January 30, 2019, 10:03:05 PM
WV - so as not to confuse the OP, his saw won't have that belt, the system you have was an upgrade, his and mine have a smaller drive motor, 1/5 hp IIRC, which goes into a gear box to drive the head.  
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on January 31, 2019, 07:06:47 AM
Thank you for the well wishes everyone. 

My photo is healed :) Thank you admin.

"Keep the first board you mill" capital idea. Will try to post photo of it, upright of course. 

Got the mill figured out, properly adjusted and maintained, blades, tools and other supplies on hand and saw a few of my own logs before advertising for work.  

Nathan is about 6 hours away, so for economic reasons I will have to look more locally for a bit. 

I like it, "start slow and small"....Start with logs that aren't "select" which I assume means high dollar. Very good point, need to tell that potential customer, I am not his man for atleast a little while. 

"... and maybe the most important thing is to enjoy and have fun.... I LOVE the view from my "office".."... I think you may be right. I actually decided on this course as I was getting tighter with the days and saw the potential for harvesting some of the trees for my material and the ability to augment my thinning pocketbook, with an upfront investment that has a reputation for holding it's value.

"Just be honest with any potential customers about your experience and give them an honest days work" -Bingo!

Your manners ar eimpecable terrific timbers!

Southside, this was very instructive. I will look up manual for air filter cleaning and do that this morning when I get to jordan's house. He just went full time doing 18th-19th century blacksmithing. 

Get this: The mill came with 13 used blades and a box of 12 new blades from WM in the box. Also has New Guide roller and a used guide roller (exchanged the other. I wonder of the used one is reusable, just change the bearing?? Also came with some extra new belts: 3 drive and two pulley and the numbers mayched what yo mentioned. 

The seller also sent me home with a box of canned greens, jams, and a wonderful memory of hispitality. 

Interesting about turbos working so well for you despite the company aversion to it. I may put that on my must ask about when I speak with a tech.. I am not sure what I have exactly and I am about to get ready and hit the road. Don't want to start out by arriving late.  I will look at the resharp program costs and if there is a local blade sharpener in the hood around Hickman County... yes, we moved here a year a go and are offficially "Hicks" :)

SSL do you mill at your location and sell a product predominately or ia it an even split home and away?

The boxes: are bands and saw blades the same thing? I assume yes. How do you open/c;lose those boxes. Thank you for sharing the design photos.

Thank you all very much!

-Mike



Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: doc henderson on January 31, 2019, 07:53:04 AM
they are band saw blades but you can call them what you want.  other sites have videos as well, but you should watch and practice coiling and uncoiling bands/blades.  timberking is where I watched.  It can make you look silly and you can actually get hurt if you do not know what to do.  your enthusiasm will take you far, especially now where everything seems new.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Southside on January 31, 2019, 08:23:15 AM
Mike,

These days I saw 90% from home and 10% portable. I do enjoy getting out and sawing at new places, but I really enjoy having all the support equipment at home. 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: WV Sawmiller on January 31, 2019, 09:00:57 AM
Southside,

   Thanks for the clarification. I was not aware of the upgrade. That will save him about $6-$7 for the PF belt. While he won't need that belt he may still find carrying his other spare belts in his band box works well. Somebody here on the FF suggested it to me and I have done that ever since and it works well for me. 

    Basically I have sort of developed a standard "kit" I load and take with me on every mobile job. Many things are needed on most jobs but are sure handy to have when you do need them. 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Woodpecker52 on January 31, 2019, 09:41:23 AM
Id start the business first by getting on your knees and giving it to the Lord!  Then he will direct the business forward.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Ben Cut-wright on January 31, 2019, 10:41:12 AM
economically viable as soon as possible without doing violence to his reputation for quality...what would your counsel be?

I have the mill and I am going to give it a go, so how do I give it a good go?... Thanks dad!  :D

 so I am at about zero and want to arrive at hero... or at least graduate elementary school in the most expeditious manner.

My current plan:
  • Read woodmizer manual - cover to cover
  • perform any essential maintenance and head to friends house. He is original owner of 88 LT40. He is going to help me set up mine and saw, and I will spend day at his place.
  • He has a friend who mills with 90 LT40 full time and I want to spend a day helping that man and learning more.
  • Select trees from my property to fell and mill. Spend 30-40 hours milling and stacking for air drying to work out any cob webs in my lightly used machine and graduate kindergarten. 1st grade here I come!
  • Look for some jobs within two weeks of right now. Types of jobs... I do not know.
  • ?

Equipment I have:
  • Sawmill Woodmizer LT35HD25G
  • L180 Skidsteer7000lb, 63HP, New Holland  with tires and steel tracks. Also have severe duty rock grapple bucket, regular bucket, forks, and backhoe attachments.
  • Chainsaw Stihl 270?
  • Truck 1995 3/4 ton Dodge Diesel 2WD. Can't get into muck.

I can have asap as it makes sense
  • Log skidder grapple - 2 day planning and 2 day build. Have 80% of materials.
  • Log holding frame on gooseneck if I need to haul some logs. Have all materials. One day job.
  • Solar kiln to be built after pole barn is up, several months. Unless a large job requires it sooner.

Is there anyone who has made a steps on how to be successful at this thread? I have been a civil government employee for most of my life and now I have to learn how to serve my neighbor, so he will reward me with his business.
 

We will be milling our own timber for our projects: pole barn shop, house for us, house for son.
Additionally want to take on milling work and find the market needs that we might be able to serve in.

My goal is to have a customer in two weeks time from now.


"Viable ASAP" advice:  Become adept at all aspects of what you expect to be paid for.  Don't use paid time for basic training.  "Zero to hero"(expert), according to Malcolm Gladwell, takes about 10,000 hours.  Hard to squeeze that many hours out of two weeks.  Getting a "customer" in that time frame shouldn't be a problem. Keeping the customer and enticing others is a better goal.

"Read the manual":  Great first step. You will find it takes several readings, with understanding and after some hands-on experience, to get full benefit from the best texts. 

Please take this as friendly advice. Everyone develops methods that may not be 'by the book'.  Anyone teaching others will sometimes offer partial information or methods that won't work in all circumstances.  Gather as much information as you can from all sources and see what works best for you in your situation.

You may be surprised to find that first "30-40 hours of sawing" could take longer than two weeks, especially if you have any other commitments to attend.  Felling timber, forwarding your own logs,  handling-stacking and stickering, plus trying to learn how to use the new sawmill will add much extra time to your learning process. 

Are you *really healthy, fit and able, like to work hard, have good hand-eye coordination, have excellent safe work habits? Are you alert when tired and don't get distracted easily?  Would you say your 'multitasking skills' are average?  Are you an outdoor person?  Do you have known allergies or any handicaps?  Does the sight of blood make you woozy?  (JK)  Many faults and less than perfect habits can be overcome. But only a couple negatives can ruin the entire venture.  Age is a factor too. For me, the other things I mention above are more pertinent than age. 

You will want to determine that every cut you make is as good as your machine and ability can make it. INSPECT, measure, position, then check again.  After you decide/know you and your saw can make a decent cut, try to do better.  The intricacies of sawing are constantly changing, making a good product of the log is a skill that, for most of us, comes with lots of intense focus and practice.  ANYONE can make cuts in logs.  A sawyer should have confidence he can determine if the cut is good, and if not, why not. 

Product of the saw mill is "rough", but rough does not mean it doesn't meet basic criteria. Strive to be able to produce material that can be used or processed to exact finished dimensions.  Expect to produce some scrap.  There are many reasons/excuses why some cuts are not adequate, no excuses for not correcting when the cut goes bad. 

Whatever evolves for you, good luck.  Expect lots of labor and even more satisfaction.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Southside on January 31, 2019, 10:46:49 AM
About the only thing I modified on my 35 - at least intentionally as there have been a couple of attempts to shorten the clamp, turn the mill into a telescope, etc - was to get rid of the hex bolts that hold the rollers onto the back stops and replace them with carriage bolts.  This will reduce the number of times you "zing" the backstops and wreck a band as the carriage bolt sits almost 1/2" lower than the hex head does.  This really comes into play when the back stop is about 40% of the way up as the bolt head is actually the highest point with the OEM set up.  

Had to round the shoulders of the bolt to make it work and clipped the carriage bolt head square so a wrench would hold it while tightening it down, it has never given me any issues since. I imagine there is a flat pan head bolt with a recessed allen slot in it out there somewhere, but I had the bolts on hand and it worked.  
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: doc henderson on January 31, 2019, 11:00:22 AM
Get a few logs of your own or from family and friends. ,  People who just think it is cool you have a sawmill and cut some wood.  I still remember making my first cuts all alone in my yard.  Part of the fun.  I have had a few glitches,( not mistakes).  some required repair, most I have never repeated, all of which I learned from.  If you cannot figure something out, as you can see, that is what some guys on here "live for" so keep posting and asking. You will be posting your advice soon.  If they really want the lumber, you start by charging low or at least enough to offset expense.  If it all turns out great, you are in business.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: SawyerTed on January 31, 2019, 11:38:32 AM
Next week I will have owned my sawmill a year.  Much of the advice given above is what I heard 12 months ago.  It is good advice.

Iíll add that you need to set your business up correctly.  Some run their mill business through their farm, some set up an LLC and others set up a corporation.  Get some expert guidance on setting up right.  Get insurance.  Some jobs will require certificate of coverage. Iíve had about a dozen that have. Theyíve been the best paying and best supported jobs Iíve done. 

Know your capabilities.  Donít be afraid to stretch but know when to turn down jobs when they are beyond what you can do without losing money.  

Build a network of suppliers and potential customers.  You do this by logging miles visiting hardware stores, feedmills, lumber yards, agricultural events, craft fairs etc.  Handout business cards any chance you get.  Ten contacts will produce one follow up.  

I set up and saw by the road when I can. I put up my yard sign. 

Make it fun. Donít press on days when you are struggling with equipment.  Relax things will fall into place. I donít mean donít work hard. Of course work hard but when things arenít right stop, figure out why.  Some days itís better to go do something else.

Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: GAB on January 31, 2019, 11:41:54 AM
Mike:
You need to keep in mind that on a sawmill the blade is the heart of the machine.  Your blades need to be properly remanufactured so that the mill performs at its best.  I personally would not send a lot of blades to a local sharpening shop the first time.  
Keep an eye on the toe rollers they are a good option and useful, however if you forget to put them down you can make some long door wedges.  i.e. scraped another board.  Note: I did have a customer that wanted wedges to level a floor.  That was a challenge but we got her done.
Personally it took me between 80 and 100 hours before I felt comfortable using the mill.
I frequently use a board to check the height of the clamp to make sure I won't hit it as I saw a cant down.
The bolt SSL mentioned changing I have hit so many times that I have lost count.  I should rotate the roller bolt hex head 90į so the next time I hit it good I'll be able to use a phillips screw driver to remove it.
Gerald
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on February 03, 2019, 08:41:53 PM
Grretings Gents!  Thank you so much for all the thoughtful posts. I have read them multiple times... to my wife also. We were both very impressed with the breadth of perspectives and wisdom. 

Update on my situation. I had the day of training and it was great. 

I wanted to ask all the questions I had and started listing them out in my OneNote program; however, the shear volume of questions is significant and I thought that I might be able to answer them myself after reading the woodmizer manuals that came with the mill and watching the videos; so, I have decided to wait on asking all but time pressing questions out of consideration. I have not gotten to read the manual yet.... Well, the day after milling, I had to move a bunch of items I had in a temp storage location. At the end of it, my friend asked me to use my skidsteer with forks to move several pallets.... well, the starter gear got stuck on the big sing gear and was burned up in quick order and actually caught my skidsteer on fire. PANIC :) Thankfully, we got the fire out. Unfortunately, I need a new starter and I "MAY" need to pull the engine and replace the ring gear...ahhhh :) I am no mechanic, but I will be sort of.

Just glad it did not burn up. 

Then, we had a break in the weather and I needed to grade the site for my pole barn. Without my skid... my old buddy Craiger brought over his small bulldozer and got it done. 

I will be mounting fire extinguishers on my equipment... and master switches and I mean soon. 

WV Sawmiller, I would love to see your list of standard kit for mobile jobs. 

Woodpecker52, my wife has said the same and indeed the the saw is the Lord's... now to actually operating (doing) it as His will be the challenge beyond my words. 

Ben Cut-wright, I moved here a year ago from Calico Rock, AR. I imagine you are somehwere out near Fayetteville area. That was a very thoughtful post with a LOT of good meat.

I am not really healthy or fit as I compare to my past, but I think I can overcome this deterioration of my strength, speed, and stamina.. Sad truth. I was seriously injured in my last profession which was very physical. The other day, I experienced the weight of some wet poplar and Oak the other day and WOW, that stuff is heavy. I am considering how I can operate in this endeavor effectively as the dimensions get harder to handle.  I am considering how I can fit in and preserve my back. I could do a static operation and use equipment to handle materials more. However, I will see how it goes and adapt myself to a place in the market where I can serve well. 

Your comments were focused on getting to hero... excellence. Do you have any recommended reading or other media that has been particularly helpful to you in the pursuit of excellence?

Southside Logger, already added carriage bolt mod to list of things to do on my 35.

SawyerTed, thank you for the very practical advice from your first year! I have written down several questions that flow from this, and will ask more once I do my dilligence. 

Gerald, I am discovering that there are many differnt blades. I have about 30 blades that came with the saw. 15 dull and I will heed your good advice and send them to Woodmizer; but, I discovered they are different blades. This is one area with several questions as I was shocked to read for this wood use this blade, for that wood use this other blade, etc... I can't imagine having 50 bloades, so I am sure I will discover a happy blade for 90% of the mixed species of trees for my area. 

I will update you all as I progress on this great adventure. 

-Mike


Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on February 03, 2019, 08:54:03 PM
A few pics from my first day of milling.
Beautiful golden hour image as the sun heads toward bed. My buddy Jordan and his precious family live in the log cabin. We were milling for his blacksmith shop. Notice the facade on the front of his blacksmith shop addition. Here is his webpage: https://axe-n-anvil.com/
Next is the board from my first cuts. It is not too good, but still very cool. 
Last pic is the yummy and steaming hot soup my 17y/o daughter had waiting for me when I arrived home. 20 degree morning that day... cold for these parts. :)



(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51882/20190131_164149.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1549244704)
 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51882/20190131_071713.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1549244812)
 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51882/20190131_172946.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1549244901)
 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51882/20190131_194414.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1549244943)
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Southside on February 03, 2019, 09:58:51 PM
Mike,

Look around for some "skate rollers", 10' sections work well and in the used market $7 / foot is the going rate in these parts.  They are worth their weight in gold when it comes to dealing with lumber.  With your 35 you can set up the rollers just outside of the saw dust line, about halfway down the saw, and pivot a board from the cant onto the roller and simply push it away - you don't have to lift it off of the mill, walk with it, set it down.  The most you are lifting is maybe 20% of the total weight.  You can even push it right to your stack pile then only have to pick up one end and walk it onto the pile.  A little tricky with the first board if you are stickering but after that it's no problem.  Check Craigslist under terms like "Racking, conveyors, rollers"  etc.  I personally prefer skate rollers over the pipe style for moving lumber because you can independently roll two boards side by side using skates, can't do that with pipe rollers.  

Good luck and enjoy the sawing!!! 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: charles mann on February 04, 2019, 12:23:30 AM
Mike, that is a beautiful piece of land your friend has. i did enjoy the few months i spent in that part of the country, tn/ky that is, but i was glad to get assigned to c co. 7th batt and get back to tx. if fires are every in that area and my ship is close enough, i'll try to make a trip to see you. good luck with your endeavors and hopefully you do well. i have found this site to be VERY informative and with folks that come from all works of life, with a wealth of knowledge. a master of none, but a jack of all it seems. 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: thecfarm on February 04, 2019, 06:22:24 AM
You will need a cantdog or a peavey to roll-move logs and cants.The website will tell you the difference between a cantdog and a peavey. Easiest way I remember,peavey starts with a P and has a Point on the end. Logrite,sponsor on the left,made in USA has them.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Banjo picker on February 04, 2019, 08:05:02 AM
Mikey, when you get your mill cutting really good, and you are super pleased with how a band cuts in a tough log.....like some big knots or something.  Stop the ill and take that band off, and hang it in a safe place.  Reason being is that some day you are going to get a log or logs that just donít want to saw right.  You will begin to question if your mill has gotten out of adjustment, when that happens, and it will,  then go get your (holy grail) blade off the wall and put it on.  If the mill then cuts ok, you just had a blade problem,  if it still wonít cut.... you might have an adjustment problem.  You would need to check and make sure you are not damaging the band with your rollers or such.  I keep one hanging in my sharpening shed for just such an occasion.  Banjo
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on February 04, 2019, 09:33:43 AM
Excellent! 

thecfarm, one of my questions is... what size cant hook? My buddy had a 42" long cant. Not sure about the other part. I guess that ought to be appropriate for me since we have the same area to mill in? 

Banjo picker, that goes on my golden tip list and I have already started it. Inexperience can lead a man down a rabbit hole because of doubt. That is a good safety net. I will keep my eye out for the holy grail blade. 

Charles, while the fire in my area would not be so cool, having you stop in for a visit would be! I certainly don't have your hours in a Chinook, but I have had many dozens of mission infils/exfils on those workhorses in my past life. In Afghanistan, that was all my unit used with the exception of a blackhawk for MEDEVAC. Reason: blackhawks could not get over those many 14,000 ft ridgelines with more than 3 passengers. 

BTW, anyone watch those DVD's offered by Wood-Mizer "Edge on Sawing". Not sure if it is worth my spending my penny's $65 to be exact and would love some advice on that? 

BTW, just ordered starter for skidsteer and guy is putting it in mail as I type this; so, I hope to have it up and running in 2-3 days time. 

-Mike
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: WV Sawmiller on February 04, 2019, 02:46:25 PM
   I would suggest at least a 60" canthook (Logrite - tell them you are a FF member when you place your order). Two would be better. One of the 78" ones would be handy when you come across a real monster log. A short mill special is handy to turn the cants on the mill - I keep an old non-Logrite under the front of my mill all the time for that purpose and reserve the Logrite for heavy duty log turning/loading. I have the same mill you do too but you have better MHE and such.

  I bought the WM Edge on Sawing and found good information in there. If you pick up 1-2 tricks to help you improve your efficiency, sales or safety it would be worth the money. I like going to demos, workshops and shows where other sawyers are there to compare notes. One good tip at each show makes them worth while plus you make contacts that may be useful in the future. Even going to see other mills besides WM will show you some tips. It may make you appreciate your mill more or may make you want some other feature not on your mill.

   Be careful but don't be afraid to make mistakes or to share them here. You will find a pretty sympathetic group here who can relate and advise.

   Good luck.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Southside on February 04, 2019, 02:54:25 PM
Customsawyer just posted his 2019 sawing event, it is April 5 and 6, this will be my first trip there but in the years past there has been a mountain of experience and information there so if you could make a road trip to Rentz, Georgia it would be worth your time.  
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: doc henderson on February 04, 2019, 03:17:12 PM
MIKE I have to say that I think your attitude and enthusiasm will take quite far, now you just to put in some hours.  yes that is a compliment.  have fun and be safe.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: charles mann on February 04, 2019, 11:30:14 PM
 
Charles, while the fire in my area would not be so cool, having you stop in for a visit would be! I certainly don't have your hours in a Chinook, but I have had many dozens of mission infils/exfils on those workhorses in my past life. In Afghanistan, that was all my unit used with the exception of a blackhawk for MEDEVAC. Reason: blackhawks could not get over those many 14,000 ft ridgelines with more than 3 passengers.



-Mike
iv got a couple hrs in hooks. even a lil front seat time. in iraq, we did a bunch rips for you guys, since there weren't enough mh-47s to go around. lawn darts are about as useful in aghanyland as submarines are in the sky.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: WDH on February 05, 2019, 08:15:51 AM
Mike,

Check out this thread.

Milling books? in Sawmills and Milling (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=56718.0)
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: YellowHammer on February 05, 2019, 08:20:17 AM
You've gotten lots of good advice, and all of it is given by experienced folks.

Here are a couple very useful videos I watched, both are very useful for teaching aids.  The first is Lawler Sawmill, and an LT40 is being used to cut a log from start to finish from a guy  who knows what he is doing.  He's not fast, his mill isn't fast, but he gets it done, day after day.  Shows basic, reasonable sawing steps, how to off load, how to edge, estimate yield, etc.  Lots to learn from this video.  As you get more experience, you will change it up some.

Wood-Mizer LT40HD - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKMFwcIjAo8)

The second video is of an Amish circle mill, the other end of the spectrum.  Other than being fun to watch, the main key on this video is to watch the sawyer as he rotates the cant through its paces, with the intent of keeping the pith centered, which is crucial to good sawing.  Proper sawing technique is crucial, and its important to keep a board is balanced, centered (no matter where it comes off the cant), has even sapwood on edges (for hardwood species) and faces.  Watch him rotate the cant and figure out why he is doing it.  Then see if you would do the same movements, and why or why not.  As you get more experience, you'll "see" more of what he is doing and why it may be good or bad for your application.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8nyrP8bclI (https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=fast+sawmill+fast+sawer&view=detail&mid=F1A2C2EBE178DDE2A489F1A2C2EBE178DDE2A489&FORM=VIRE)

A couple other tips related to your physical health, which is important if you want to keep on sawing.  I have an artificial hip from playing collegiate sports.  However, it has helped me be more efficient.  To put things in perspective, if a thousand board foot of logs weighs 8 tons, and even if you load the logs hydraulically, except for the sawdust, every ounce of that log is coming off the mill as flitches, slabs or boards and you will be potentially handling every one.  If you mill "just" a thousand bdft per week, you will be "hand" handling over 800,000 pounds in a year, year after year.  Now imagine what that weight number is if you mill every day, like some of us.  Proper handling of stuff coming off the mill isn't optional, its paramount to long term survivability.  

I'll leave you a few pieces of advice I think about EVERY day.  
"Never lift both ends of the board at the same time."
"Always take steps to save steps."
"Don't cut anything of yourself off."



Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Ga Mtn Man on February 05, 2019, 09:19:11 AM
Words to live by indeed.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: WV Sawmiller on February 05, 2019, 09:25:38 AM
YH,

  Nice videos. I like the guy in Camden although I typically vary the process a bit. I normally saw the first side and a flitch or two to get the face I want, flip 180 and repeat. I start the second face at a point I will end with the thickness I want for finished boards as the log allows (Example 12",10", 8" etc.) then I flip 90 degrees, saw the round off and a flitch or two till I get to clean wood then I flip to the last face and start on a mark off my cheat sheet so I finish exactly on the desired board thickness. I check and sometimes have to cut an 8/4 in a batch of 4/4 or a 4/4 when I'm cutting 8/4 to keep from splitting the pith but I check that before I make my first cut. Another change I make is I edge against a cant. When I get down to about a 3-4 inch cant I  stop making boards, stand the flitches up and edge them then finish sawing the cant down to the last board. I like the extra full length stability of sawing against a cant instead of just clamping  bunch of limber boards in the center.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Stephen1 on February 05, 2019, 10:19:43 AM
Here are my thoughts for the new guy. If I read it correctly,you came out of an office job.
Start an exercise regime with weights and cardio and throw in a yoga class every week for the stretching. It can Be as simple as a good brisk walk every day. Throw in some weights a couple of times a week.  You only need 30-45 mins a day.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Southside on February 05, 2019, 12:26:46 PM
What?  say_what
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on February 05, 2019, 02:13:02 PM
Alright, I am still woring through the pile of reading material while I wat on my new skidsteer starter. It is scheduled to be here tomorrow. I hope to be milling some of my own Pole Barn lumber by Saturday.

All of these comments have been read and reread by me. Thank you all for your investment of time and wisdom.

I may cheap out on a less spendy cant hook for now. I much prefer to buy once, well. However, funds are getting thin and I found a $38 48" hook to buy me some time. The one you mentioned seems very nice, lightweight, and well built. I will see once I have my full purchase list together.

Going to events and visiting sawyers: I like the idea a lot. I watched those two videos that YellowHammer posted. The gentlman from Camden, AL is about 5 hrs away. Yellowhammer is 2.5 hours away :)
The Sawing Event in Rentz, GA is 7hrs away. What is the best learning scenario out of those two? Visiting a competent sawyer and working for him for a couple days or attending and event with lots-o-folks to talk with?

Can anyone shed light on why the man from Camden cut his 1x8 without stopping at the pith? I thought the pith had to end up in a final small cant 4x4 or such?

That was a very good video content and I liked the setup from an efficiency standpoint.

Thank you for the links to books. Here are the four books I have downloaded so far:


Yellow Hammer,  does "Always take steps to save steps." mean to take the steps to become more efficient? That is my read.

WV Sawmiller, do your flitches get sandwiched between the cant and the backstops for edging?

Stephen1, no office work. I am a retired Green Beret.  I was training some Navy SEALS a few years back (Contract Work) and a young guy smashed into an embankment in some sort of Baja 1000 Race Car Dune Buggy with a bunch of MAchine Gun Mounts on it. All passengers had 5 point harnesses, except for the rag doll in the turret hole up top... me. VERY glad to be alive. Discovered a few months later that I lost (shredded) the ligements on the backside of my legs. A snap kick for me now means my toe touches my belly button :) Actually, I do very well using my muscles to do what my ligaments once did. I take care of my back by using less brawn and more brain. I wonder if the Yoga stretching might not help me anyways. I think my wife would love doing something like that with me. I will look for some modest videos of that.

Does anyone have a detailed portable sawing kit packing list from A-Z? I mean everything from sawmill, checklists, manual, any apps, down to wallet, band-aides, socks... everything. I understand that a few hours work an hour a away requires much less than a months work 8 hours away; but, I can use the list as a template to work off of. I have begun inventing the wheel on this, but thought I would wiser to ask wise men.

Thanks again Gents.


-Mike
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: dustintheblood on February 05, 2019, 02:17:39 PM
Sell the mill and buy bitcoin.  So hot right now!!  

:snowball:
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: WV Sawmiller on February 05, 2019, 04:16:23 PM
   My flitches get thrown on the loading arms till ready to edge then I just stack them between the cant and the clamp. That saves me having to move the cant once I start on the final cut.

   Trust me - you will be much happier if you buy the Logrite cant hook vs others on the market. Tell them you are an FF member and get your discount. Think of it as a safety issue because the other hooks will slip and get you hurt while the Logrite bites deeper and harder and an alligator snapping turtle.

   As far as the guy in Camden splitting the pith remember he was only cutting 4/4 material which even if it bows in or out can normally be nailed into place. I'm speculating that was his reasoning. I worry a lot less about the pith on thin stock than I would for framing lumber. JMHO.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Mt406 on February 05, 2019, 05:28:17 PM
These guys have lots of wisdom here because thay have the miles.
Start a go fund me page and get a good cant hook ask me how bad broken jibs hurt when a cheap one pulls out.
Run sharp blades is doesn't matter if just came out of the box or you made a few passes dull is dull or bad that a capital SIN. you some times get bad blades or even a box of them.
Start sharping your own blades because you are in control Theres a guy on your side of the world Richard ---- forgot last his biz Custom something. I am on pain meds cant remember any thing now. Hes a go to guy for sharping.
30-40 hrs of saw time means you know how to start it. That's not said as a insult, I thought that to. I am close to 1500 hrs and I get schooled by logs.
Don't be that cheap guy, Eq costs a lot and experience is worth more don't were out your body for nothing.

My two cents
(I am healing up form back surgery and heavily medicated two cents)
Scott :)    
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on February 05, 2019, 06:52:39 PM
WV Sawmiller, thank you for pressing me on the cant hook. I thought it was a best option, not a vastly superior option vs disappointing option. I will get the Logrite Cant Hook. I am just trying to get a little positive cashflow as soon as is realistically possible. I would rather make less than minimum wage sawing than double that doing something else. I count it as getting paid to learn. 

Mt406, No insult taken... reality! Thank you. Sorry for your pain! I hope you see health soon. It is not my being cheap as much as it is being really tight on funds at the moment. I have held off on making purchases until I can come up with a master list and start at the top and work down based on priority. If I had been wise, I would have thought ahead when I was making big money. I was a fool, but that is behind me and now to work! I can go get 100% disability after what happened, but I would rather not, unless I was destitute. I was so glad to be able to buy a lot more saw than I thought I would be able to do; because, the seller met me at my limit which was significantly under his asking price. While it would be great to get free stuff, I will not do a go fund me. I will purchase what I need minimally until I get a little cash flow. I "really" do understand that 40 hours is a drop in the bucket; but, I cannot wait until I have 100s of hours if 30 will do to get me started on some small jobs to begin. I need to learn enough to avoid being a clown show, knowing my limitations, taking jobs that would be a good fit for me and a customer. I just don't want to be reading the manual to figure out how to start, level, change blade, fold blade, and do some basic milling while I am at a customers house. 

Get well soon and thank you for chiming in!

Dust in the blood, sell me your cant hook and you buy the bitcoin :)

-Mike
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Southside on February 05, 2019, 06:56:15 PM
I have to agree with the others, you get exceptional value with Logrite products. Cheap peaveys and cant hooks will slip and you will break the handle, then you will spend almost as much on a new handle as the cheap one was to begin with. 

I bought my Logrite peavy probably 4 years ago after breaking yet another wooden handle, honestly the paint is hardly scratched and this thing takes a beating all the time. 

Think of it like buying cheap ammo that may or may not fire, just how much did you actually save and at what cost? 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on February 05, 2019, 07:11:31 PM
Southside Logger, I get it. I just did not get it before :) I thought it was a nicety to have the best, but the cheapo would serve me will for several months. A tool that is going to grieve me is not a tool, but a liability. So I am in. Thanks for seconding WV Sawmiller on this. I tried to find the discount for the Forum Members when checking out, but did not see anything; so, I will call in morning before buying. 

At this point:
60"
Logrite

BUT... cant hook vs peavey? Which do I want?

Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: WV Sawmiller on February 05, 2019, 07:20:04 PM
   I've only used the cant hook so can't say about the peavy. I think the peavy was originally used more to separate logs. I don't know if the point would scar up a cant if used to turn them and maybe others who use both can answer. I hear the point is handy to just stick it up in the ground when not in use. 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on February 05, 2019, 07:47:25 PM
Mt406, if you remember the Richard who is the go to guy on sharpening, do let me know. At this point, I am going to pay Woodmizer to sharpen my blades unless I find a local guy who is tried, proven, and cost effective. I absolutely want to learn to sharpen, but NO TIME SOON. My learning curve is so steep right now, that I need to focus on Everest, and leave the Matterhorn for another day... year. :)

-Mike
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Southside on February 05, 2019, 08:40:42 PM
I am thinking he means Richard @Cutting Edge (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=17902) - aka Casco - for sharpening.  Yes, do call and they will apply the discount.  A peavey is better for rolling logs but you have to be careful as it will dig into a cant.  I have carefully used a peavey on cants, did so today, but never used a cant hook on logs since I don't have one.  So, my opinion on which one is better for you use is really of no value.  
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Cutting Edge on February 05, 2019, 10:37:50 PM

Southside - smiley_thumbsup

I'll vouch or Logrite also... you can't go wrong.  By far the best cant hooks.  One time investment

Mt406 - Hope your recovery from surgery goes well.  Take it easy and let the body heal.

Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on February 05, 2019, 11:29:18 PM
Cutting Edge..Richard? What is the best way to get info about sharpening blades? -Mike
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: YellowHammer on February 06, 2019, 01:38:46 AM
You are welcome to come to my place anytime.  

The project in Ga is a wealth of info, too.  

Iím a big fan of diving in.  Cut a few logs yourself, get a few small jobs that you canít screw up too bad, and get to making money.   

Get your bands sharpened by someone else until you have time to learn it.  I know Richard aka Cutting Edge, he knows what he is talking about.

The Woodmizer Resharp service is also pretty good, Iíve used the Resharp in Ga and was always happy with their results.  I started sharpening my own bands when my sharpening bill hit $300 a month.  Until you get to that volume, donít worry.  Reach into the box and grab another band.  One less thing to worry about. 

The hardest part of sawing with people watching on a job is that they are alwsy yakking in your ear.  Bring a set of hearing muffs and put them on to drown out the bystander noise.  

Yes, taking steps to save steps is a mantra of mine.  Wasted motion, wasted steps, and wasted effort is to be avoided and overcome.  



Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Jeff on February 06, 2019, 02:42:03 PM
Trust me - you will be much happier if you buy the Logrite cant hook vs others on the market. Tell them you are an FF member and get your discount.


To be clear, Logrite tools  DO NOT offer a standard Forestry Forum discount. They never have. However, occasionally they have some scratch and dents or something that is not quite perfect. If they know you are a Forestry Forum member, if they have something they might offer that to you as a discount.

They go all out in other ways to support the Forestry Forum as a sponsor and that includes giving us thousands of dollars worth of tools over the years to give to members for contests and door prizes.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: CabinCreations on February 06, 2019, 03:47:50 PM
I have been quietly bumming knowledge off this thread as well... So thank you to the OP for starting this thread and thank you everyone for all the detailed information. 

Jeff - I ordered a cant hook from Logrite yesterday and mentioned I was a member of the Forestry Forum. They were able to give me a discount and then called me back to ask if I was ok with an orange cant hook with an extra hole drilled in it for even less (a scratch and dent as you alluded to). I was really appreciative of that since I am trying to keep costs down right now too. They were great to work with the numerous times I called them. The new hardware is set to arrive tomorrow! 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: WV Sawmiller on February 06, 2019, 05:42:13 PM
   I remember when I ordered mine I could not get the on-line order to work (Probably operator error on my part) and I called and just mentioned in passing I had seen them on the FF and the real nice lady, Tammy, who took my call told me that if I was a member then I was eligible for the discount. Unexpected but very welcome. They/She were/was super nice and great to work with and I have not heard anyone else with other experiences that weren't just as great. With or without the discount it will be well worth your time and money and I know you will be happy with it. I really do think they should be listed as safety equipment as they really get so much better bite in the log. If you've had a cheap hook slip you know how important that can be.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Stephen1 on February 06, 2019, 06:41:19 PM
I like my log rite 60" peavey! Sticks in the ground so I don't have to bend over to pick it up and easy to find. 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: gmmills on February 06, 2019, 10:43:44 PM
Mike, Allow me to try to help with the anxiety with regards to blade selection. With your mills HP rating and cutting varying species don't consider a blade hook angle any larger than a 7 deg.  A 4 deg blade is also beneficial.  I use a 7 deg blade as my general purpose profile. I also keep 4 deg blades on hand for extreme conditions.  No one blade profile will perform optimally in all sawing applications. You may find, depending upon the density of the species you are sawing, that a 4 deg blade may better fit your needs. I have found that if a 7 deg blade is not performing well in a certain species change to a 4 deg blade. The 4 deg blade is less aggressive and will generally solve all issues attributed to using a 7 deg blade in tough conditions.

To contact Cutting Edge give him a call 304-878-3343. He will be able to answer many questions in regards to sawing and blade choice. His contact info along with his list of services  are in his sig line.        
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: YellowHammer on February 07, 2019, 07:09:20 AM
Gmmills describes exactly what I do, from my old little LT15 to my bigger diesel mill.  7's for 90%, then if there is a problem, I go to 4's.  I've never had any log I couldn't cut a straight line with this strategy.   

Keep your band tight, keep it clean, keep it sharp.  The band should come off the mill looking as shiny and clean as it did when it went on.  If it doesn't your cut is being compromised.  

Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on February 07, 2019, 10:01:00 AM
Good news: Skidsteer is up and running! Bad news: Flashflooding in our county, dogs and cats have been seen coming from the clouds. Also, buckets more coming this afternoon with a cold front. 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51882/scuba_emoji~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1549551648)
 

74 degrees today dropping to 27 by morning. 

Historcally my manner. has been to make it up and bust through barriers with brute force, determination, and hard work without looking for counsel except where absolutely needed. I also took counsel as wise, woithout considering the veracity of the information and have many a scrape from my folly. However, over the last several years I have come to realize that a much better way to learn is to walk with wise men in person, through books, or even in a forum. Of course, the need is to discern between all the data comin in, consider my facts, and make wisdom decisions...and hopefull walk off fewer cliffs. :)

Anyways, with my next house build (3rd) and done a 100% by us right down to the septic install I did a few months back, I decided to avoid regrets like I had after my last build. Beautiful house, but a few poor assembly details made it a HUGE headache to correct after the fact. Whereas, if I had done the wise assembly when building, it would have been awesome and MUCH cheaper too. My life's lesson's learrned have been costly, as a child left to himself brings shame and the companion of fools will be destroyed. Anyways, the application is this: dive in to learnign the wise (right) way to do things, but don't dive into the doing the task until you have enough data to mitigate the cliff jumps. 

So, after learning what I have thus far, I think Yellow Hammer hit the nail on the head with this advice: "Iím a big fan of diving in.  Cut a few logs yourself, get a few small jobs that you canít screw up too bad, and get to making money."

My updated plan of action: 
Order the bare essentials I am lacking
Make sure my saw is aligned properly
Make a cut list for my pole barn and my son's office (storage shed)
Fell some pines
Saw my list and stack it for air drying
Get word out I can saw some logs, take only jobs I can't mess up to bad and make a few dollars

One of the reasons for this thread was to help point me in the right direction and of course, for other want-to-be sawyers, like me, to benefit from the exchange also. I have finished all the manuals that came with my woodmizer and I can tell I will need a second go through in time, but I need to be sawing now.

Of course,  I really want to learn best practices, and contrary to my historical manner, I plan to continue to have a focused professional development plan - education through experience, reading, forum, videos, attending events, and visiting wise men. For cash flow reasons, I need to start with the less expensive propositions. I may try to set aside some funds for the GA event. Question: is this a family friendly event? My 17y/o daughter loves road trips with daddy; but, I do not want her defiled froma pirates convention. Please advise. 

Thanks for all  the feedback on the Logrite products. They responded to my email inquiry and offered a 10% discount. Whether policy or arbitrary, I was glad to get it. 

gmmills thank you for your advice.  Yellow Hammer, thank you for seconding him as this helps me to have confidence in the data as I try to sort it all out.  

What do you run through your lubicator system? The gentleman I bought the machine from put water, pinesol, and dawn soap. Ratio: and flow rate unknown. He did mostly hardwoods. I will be starting out on a bunch of pine for me, but probably hardwood for hire. When I went to Jordan's house we did the poplar on my mill and did it dry. 

My mill came with 15ea 10 deg blades that are dull and 15 brand new 4 deg blades.  I have a BUNCH of big pines on my land and plan on harvesting a bit of it for my house, barn, my son's house and maybe a little to sell if their is a market for it. 

Thanks again for all the kind words and hard questions! 

-Mike

My son sent this photo on his way to work a few minutes ago - river is high and more to come. 

(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51882/Flooding.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1549551339)
 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: doc henderson on February 07, 2019, 10:13:35 AM
Mike. I hope to go to GA as well, hope to meet you there.  Most responses are from folks that have already gone.  I PMed another sawyer in Ks here who is going for inside info.  You could do the same if you see someone on the list that you feel comfy asking.  Seems like most folks are gentlemen as I am sure you will agree.  Might be boring for her at the classes, but I get the feeling that some of the ladies will find things to do.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on February 07, 2019, 10:25:34 AM
Thanks Doc! Actually, it may be better for me to go solo anyways, as I will be able to focus intensely on learning. Who knows, she may take to helping daddy sawing. I have a little time to consider.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Tam-i-am on February 07, 2019, 12:20:43 PM
Sorry I don't want to hijack this thread but I wish you wouldn't put on public threads that we offer discounts to members as we get calls from non-members who read it and ask for discounts.  We try to help out members when we can.

Typically we don't discount because it undercuts our dealers and that is not good practice. 

Tammy
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Jeff on February 07, 2019, 01:00:05 PM
There ya go guys. Ya'll know what the deal on this is, so no more discussion is needed here or anywhere on this point.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: GAB on February 07, 2019, 01:39:25 PM
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51882/scuba_emoji~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1549551648)


What do you run through your lubicator system? The gentleman I bought the machine from put water, pinesol, and dawn soap. Ratio: and flow rate unknown. He did mostly hardwoods. I will be starting out on a bunch of pine for me, but probably hardwood for hire. When I went to Jordan's house we did the poplar on my mill and did it dry.


Cute picture.  You might want to consider adding a length of straight tubing between the red and the blue.  When I first startd out I would have needed numerous extra lengths.
I have used straight water, water with dishwashing soap, water with ERA, and water with cotton spindle cleaner.
The amount of soap or cleaner I put in the jug depends a lot on what I plan on sawing.  More for pine and spruce than for ash or maple.
Concerning the flow rate - keep an eye on the blade, if it starts to gum up you either need to add more soap or increase the flow rate.
I found that buying ERA when it is on sale gave me a lot of bang for my dollar.  If ERA does not work for you give it to your wife to do laundry with.
GAB
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Southside on February 07, 2019, 02:33:42 PM
Time of year logs are cut will make a difference too - at least with yellow pine. In the summer I can get away with running zero lube with pine, they have enough water in them already.  

Older hardwood logs that have been sitting around a while and have dried out will require more water than fresh cut, especially white oak.  

As far as the mixture is concerned, I use a proprietary mixture that consists of a couple glugs of dish washing soap, a wallop or two of pine-sol, and this time of year I have been adding red RV anti-freeze to the mix and having un-expected beneficial results so I may need to update my patent.  The number and size of the glugs and wallops depends on how sticky the wood is and if the band is coming out clean enough or not.  Sometimes it also depends on how much is left in either the soap bottle or the pin-sol jug to begin with.   :D

Guess it's a lot like watching that guy paint mountain scenes on PBS back when we were kids - "Use a dash of umbra blue here, some paisley white, yadda, yadda, yadda".  Somehow my attempts to follow his simple directions always resulted in a smear on the paper which resembled a paint blob at best.... :( 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on February 08, 2019, 11:42:35 AM
Ok, just purchased Standard Aluminum 60" Logrite Cant Hook... from SHForestry in NY state.

Debarking tool advice: Drawknife, Axe, Bark Spud, or Cordless Angle Grinder with carbide or chain wheel?

Has anyone put forth a spreadsheet for sawmill bookeeping? I will eventually get spun up on Quickbooks, but I want to start keeping track of expenses now as I did not consider all my dfriving for the mill or fuel for it up to this point. Want to get a handle on that ASAP so I am ready with my start up expenses when I do meet up with a tax expert later in the year.

-Mike
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Southside on February 08, 2019, 02:51:53 PM
Does your mill not have a debarker?  If that is the case I would compare the cost of adding on one from WM vs the other options.  The time savings is significant.  
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: doc henderson on February 08, 2019, 02:54:54 PM
Mike,  Tom the Sawyer has IMHO a good system for keeping track of stuff.  He even puts serial numbers on his blades.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on February 08, 2019, 05:55:37 PM
Thank you Gents!

Doc, I will look for Tom the Sawyer's bookeeping system.

Southside Logger, I have Revision A1 of the 2011 model LT35HDG25 and there is no debarker available from my talking with techy guy at WoodMizer. I did not mention the following sooner as I am just trying to get going and did not want to muddy my thread with my "FUTURE" plans too much; but, I plan to fabricate a debarker. I have a couple options in mind and have many of the parts to do it. Hydraulic pump and hydraulic motor system; or, 12v Hydraulic pump pushing hydraulic motor. I also have a geared speed increasing compact assembly if it is the right rpm to turn the blade, otherwise I will use a pulley. I DO NOT have time to fab it right now, so I need to start without it besides I much prefer to fab in my own barn which is not built yet. I do have a buddy's shop as I need it though. I do not know if the 105AMP alternator on my system can handle the additional load of my 12V hydraulic pump.  I do not know if the 12v hydraulic pump I have (off wheelchair lift system) can handle the duty cycle I would need. I do not know if my 25HP Kohler can handle the load of a debarker and a sawing. If I make it, I want it to be done well, mounted professionally. I have not begun to design it beyond mental concept and desire. That is down the road for now, at least a few months. Need a little cash flow.

I am certainly open to suggestions, but thought I would mention my current understanding and position. 

That said, which tool for temporary debarking?

-Mike

Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: doc henderson on February 08, 2019, 06:28:07 PM
@Tom the Sawyer (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=9572) 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: WV Sawmiller on February 08, 2019, 06:31:47 PM
  I use Excel and have spreadsheets with formulas and categories for expenses, lumber types, taxable/not, etc as applicable. I enter the data and the spreadsheet does the math. I total by category at the end of the year for subcategories for expenses and send to my tax preparer.

  I have such spreadsheets for expenses, sales, customer sawing, sales of my lumber to customers, history by day for all logs sawed/lumber produced, etc. If you want them send me a PM with e-mail address and I will send them to you.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on February 08, 2019, 06:52:13 PM
Thank you gents. WV Sawmiller PM Sent. -Mike
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on February 09, 2019, 05:14:50 PM
How do you operate in mud?

Situation update:
We moved to Centerville, TN a year ago. I did not realize how wet middle TN is. I spent 5 years living in Panama and another few years traveling to other parts of the Americas and even with rain almost daily for 8 or 9 months a year in some of those locations (if my memory serves me correctly), you could still operate off road after a rain. In Hickman County TN, it is mushy clay when wet and off road. I selected a spot to setup my mill to one side of our creek gravel temp driveway thinking I could off load any logs I haul in easily and have some firmer ground for stacking lumber, moving stacks, etc..; but, just turning my skidsteer once on our driveway started to do a little damage to it. We need the driveway to stay operational for our car.  If I go off road completely, it will be able to operate but it will be MUSH. Muddy logs, adding half a foot of height to my height from sticky clay on my boots. I have steel tracks on the skid. I could take off the tracks, but then it would not do too well off road for logging because of the MUSH. I don't know if there is anyone on a similar situation that can offer some advice on how they dealt with this. Back in the Ozarks, we had ROCK and the rain would not bother me a bit.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: charles mann on February 09, 2019, 05:39:08 PM
Mike, look in your area and see if there is a place that recycles (crushes) concrete and or asphalt. fo rme, it has worked great. when its raining and muddy out, i dont worry bout getting stuck or being able to operate stuff on the crete. only down side is, gotta watch out for, and pick them up as you see them, or spread and run a magnet, and that is nails and wire in the concrete. i pulled a forgetful amount of nails and mesh out of my tractor tires, which didnt go through, but did on my tck. i occasionally find a straggler here and there, but nothing, until i had 6 12 yrd load brought in to set ym conexes on. will bring probably 4-6 more loads once my mill is operational and i can get some of the trees out of the way without having to move them 2-3 more times before getting them on the mil. 

usually, or for the areas around me, crushed crete and asphalt is cheap, around $5-7 a ton minus delivery fee. 
worth a shot to look and see prices if available for you. 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: doc henderson on February 09, 2019, 06:21:16 PM
Not that you want to run out and buy a different skid steer, but I upgraded from wheeled to 18 inch wide rubber tracks.  something like 22 pounds per square foot for wheeled and 4 pounds per square foot for wide tracks.  can drive on loose sand and only make a 1/2 inch impression.  care when spinning or turning.  We did this when we put put pool in.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Southside on February 09, 2019, 07:52:01 PM
Do you know of anyone who works in a papermill or is there one within striking distance? Mill felt which runs on the machine and forms the paper makes for excellent road base. Water will run down through it but your road surface material won't sink in the mud, basically it's a free version of geotextile cloth and will last the rest of your lifetime. Many mills are happy to give it away when they change it out as they don't incur the disposal expense as a result. 

You could probably get away with rolling out the felt and putting down a couple inches of top material and never have a problem again. 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: charles mann on February 09, 2019, 08:50:07 PM
Do you know of anyone who works in a papermill or is there one within striking distance? Mill felt which runs on the machine and forms the paper makes for excellent road base. Water will run down through it but your road surface material won't sink in the mud, basically it's a free version of geotextile cloth and will last the rest of your lifetime. Many mills are happy to give it away when they change it out as they don't incur the disposal expense as a result.

You could probably get away with rolling out the felt and putting down a couple inches of top material and never have a problem again.
@Southside logger (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=24297) i wish i could find some. nothing in my area and the mill in my hm town, after installing a new machine, closed up shop. 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: doc henderson on February 09, 2019, 08:52:38 PM
If you know anyone at a big road construction co., check on the fabric.  i got 8 rolls for 25 bucks each, my brother works there, 14 x 300 feet each.  dupont I think, could barely cut with scissors.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on February 09, 2019, 09:02:46 PM
Thank you for the ideas gents. 

I will look into the material options, but the tracked skid can't be on the menu anytime soon.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: YellowHammer on February 09, 2019, 09:55:23 PM
Green crushed concrete is the best mud base Iíve ever used.  All (most) concrete plants have green tailings, waste, and other pieces that donít cast well, such as concrete block, and will crush it and sell it for $7 per ton here.  I get it routinely by the dump truck load, and when put out thick on the ground, say 6 inches or so, and packed, will finish curing and will set up a hard as concrete within a few months.  We once built a road into a 20 acre swamp with this stuff, and it is still being used 20 years later. Significantly cheaper than gravel.  
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on February 10, 2019, 12:52:45 AM
Thanks for seconding that tip with your experience Yellow Hammer. I will make some calls Monday to see what I can find.  -Mike
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on February 15, 2019, 07:17:03 PM
Howdy! 

Can anyone help me understand the correct rotation direction of a debarker? One of you kind gents sent me pics of a debarker and it looked pretty simple, so I got hold of a debarker manual. After reading about direction of rotation and then seeing the debarker manual, I think I had it backwards. The manual makes me think rotation direction is as my images below depict. However, when I read men's comments about rotation, it sounds like the rotation is the exact opposite of what I have depicted below. Knowing that there are times when a blade is used in the opposite direction from convention, I wanted to get the facts. Thank you for the clarification. -Mike
 


(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51882/Debarker_Direction_of_Blade_Question~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1550275886)
 


(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51882/Debarker.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1550275934)
 

Manual image... my red arrow.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Southside on February 15, 2019, 08:41:59 PM
Yup - that's how mine runs.  
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on February 19, 2019, 08:38:24 AM
Thank you SSL!

Look at the images. On left is illustration of LT35 debarker and on the right, I think, is an LT40 debarker.

Notice the bearing and support on the right. Wondering which way to go? I assume they have the same motor. I have a woodmizer 3/4HP motor for my build. Would not cost much to add a support and bearing, but if it ain't broke, why fix it. Anyone with experience with both? 

Of interest: when editing image for this post, I was surprised to see the debarker rotation is opposite in the two images. 


(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51882/Debarker~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1550583382)
 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Magicman on February 19, 2019, 08:49:39 AM
My Debarker shown on the right does indeed climb out of the cut and throws the chips toward the operator.  I understand the reasoning behind this technology and am completely comfortable with it. 

The Debarker shown on the left turns in the opposite direction and needs a limiter plate to prevent it from digging too deeply, stalling the motor, and kicking the breaker.  Of course it throws the chips away from the operator.

I have no thoughts regarding the support bearing and was not aware that the other did not have one.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Chuck White on February 19, 2019, 11:13:22 AM
I have a friend who has an LT35, and the only issue he has with his debarker is once in a while he moves it in too soon and runs it into the end of the log, and it wants to just saw into it.

He's new and he's catching on, and learning that the debarker has to contact the log on the side!  :)
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Southside on February 19, 2019, 08:15:50 PM
Double checked both of mine to be sure, they both spin away from the operator, the 35 does not have the support bearing or a depth disc, the 70 has the support bearing but no depth disc.  I have only ever tripped the breaker on the 35 once, done it more times on the 70 actually.  I think that's because the 35 has the old hand lever and double spring tension system, it can't dig in as the two springs let it float.   
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on February 19, 2019, 09:54:30 PM
Thanks for the info gents. Odd thing: Woodmizer sent me the LT35 debarker manual and it has a 1/30HP geared motor on top in the manual vs the hand-lever that your LT35 has Southside Logger. Must have been a later development.

Magicman, I hope you were able to get your sawing done on that road trip. We are expecting 7-9 inches of rain over the next few days my neighbor tells me. 

PS. I contacted my first potential customer today. Gentleman who lives up the road a few miles has an 18"x12' walnut log. He asked me if he is to deliver it to me. I told him that he can do that, or I can pick it up or come to him with my portable mill. When he learned I could come to the logs, he wanted to look at having his son cut down several poplar trees to get some 2x6's for some barn repairs and have me come to site. May be some time yet and we did not discuss price yet. He is supposed to call me at some point. I will need to figure out my price. I am inclined to do it by the board foot, so he is not paying for my snail operation as a newb. I have received some good tips from one of you gentlemen on the forum and will likely seek more info as the mission develops. I am thinking for the first few jobs, not to have a minimum for close customers; and, will consider it getting paid to put spurs to this rodeo, and staying in the shallow end of the pool. In my old profession, we had the mission to turn farmers into soldiers under the enemy's nose; so, the early missions of the troops in this theoretical ragtag army were called - confidence targets... these are easier missions such as graffiti propaganda before high risk toe-to-toe missions. I think it would be a great benefit to have a few confidence targets under my belt. Already thought to saw up his poplar 2x6's before touching his walnut log.

Thanks again!
-Mike
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Magicman on February 19, 2019, 10:29:37 PM
Magicman, I hope you were able to get your sawing done on that road trip.
The weather/rain made me postpone this week's sawing, so my plans now are to return next week to hopefully finish that job. 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on February 21, 2019, 10:28:12 PM
OK Gents, I have an ad up and I have had two inquiries besides the folks wanting to buy my sawmill :).

So, now I need to give the potential customers some info if they start to probe for more. I put the attached PDF together this evening; but, I am flying by the seat of my pants
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51882/Seat_of_pants~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1550805831)
. So, I request a brutal critique on my draft document. Thank ye kindly!

-Mike

PS. Magicman, I don't know which way you are going on that sawing next week, but we have been getting rain, rain, rain, and austensibly we have another serveral inches coming over the next two days. I am thinking there may be  market for SCUBA Sawyer.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on February 21, 2019, 11:18:55 PM
BTW Gents, so I can learn proper forum etiquette: should I keep asking my educational questions on this thread... or should I make a new thread for each new subtopic? For example, the request of a critique on my customer information sheet, should it have been a new thread? Always learning. -Mike
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: WDH on February 22, 2019, 07:16:03 AM
Keeping everything is this thread will make the your experience easier for others to understand and learn from. 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: SawyerTed on February 22, 2019, 07:50:18 AM
Mike, Iíve enjoyed reading this thread. Your questions are great and you are on the right path.  Iíve learned a some things as Iíve read.  

I was in your place a year ago.  The members here have continued to give me excellent guidance.  Much of the success Iíve had is a result of that guidance.

Keeping your questions here will provide other rookies access to your questions and the responses in one place. 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: terrifictimbersllc on February 22, 2019, 07:51:54 AM
So, I request a brutal critique on my draft document. Thank ye kindly!
Good sheet, covers a lot of bases. Minor comments-you might say it saves  two hauling trips logs one way, lumber the other. Also you get to participate in sawing your logs if you like. 

In your bf definition, two points, maybe simplify a bit and  give an example 10' 2x6 has bf = 2" x6" x 10' /12 = 10 bf. 
Also when you mention the scaling of bf in logs it might be confusing how you charge, is it by log or by lumber. 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: YellowHammer on February 22, 2019, 08:00:36 AM
When quarter sawing I switch over to hourly rate, as setting the log alignment and sawing technique is critical and takes some time to get the best results.  So I like to slow down and get it right, and my board foot production rate suffers.  Also, since quarter sawing has more waste than conventional sawing the board foot production is lower anyway.  
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: WV Sawmiller on February 22, 2019, 08:55:17 AM
MikeySP,

  On setting up your policies and pricing I would go ahead and do that before your first customer but remember you can always waive certain charges such as mileage or set up or minimum quantities or such on any given job until you feel comfortable applying them.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: GAB on February 22, 2019, 10:11:54 AM
If I am reading your sketch correctly your finished lumber is too close to the mill. 
When you get done you will be locked in.
I charge $10.00 plus what I last payed for blades for destroyed blades.
The $10.00 is to pay for lost production.
Gerald
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Magicman on February 22, 2019, 11:19:21 AM
With me the finished lumber always goes to the end of the mill, not to the front.  Closer and doesn't require dodging the sawmill head and crossing the sawdust.  Boards are pulled immediately as they are sawn.  I always require that the tailgunners and their activities remain in my sight.

I edge as I saw so the flitches go on the loader arms.  In the event that I need to wait and edge a couple of logs, the flitches simple lay on the staged logs.  I never wait until all of the logs are sawn to edge.

My slabs go where the sawhorses/flitches are shown which is closer so less handling.

P.S.  The weather forecast looks good for me next week.  I am sawing ~75 miles South of Memphis which is ~200 miles SW of you.  Actually you are closer to that job than I am.  :D
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on February 22, 2019, 01:38:31 PM
As usual, you men are gems. Thank you for your advice. I am taking notes and will make some changes. 

1. I will try to clarify board foot definition with practical example(s).
2. I like the hourly rate for quarter sawn; however, I will switch to that after a chalk up a couple jobs quarter sawing first; as, I would not want to pay an hourly rate for an incompetent sawyer who is getting paid while he learns. 
3. Gerald, thanks. I see the problem of getting locked in. Very serious problem there. 
4. Magicman,  are you saying that you cut through, raise saw, backup to start of next cut; while, off bearer pulls the board off the front and stacks it there? I like your location for the slabs. When I looked at my drawing, I did not like the idea of carrying the slabs there. My first day cutting, ALONE, I did run into problems placing flitches to be edged on loader arms as they became too numerous, but with an off bearer, I can see how placing them on upcoming logs after loader arm gets full could work well.

Also, thank you gents for the clarification about keeping my questions here. Not to beat a dead horse, but since I am building a debarker for my LT35, I was thinking it might be better to have a dedicated thread for that particular topic as it might be helpful for someone else wanting to embark on that. Otherwise, it will be buried amongst all my "getting going" questions and experiences. What say you?

Sawyer Ted, someone PM'd me and mentioned you have gone down the road I am starting out on. Glad to meet you.

Men, if I repeat my questions, ever, do not think your words are wasted; but, I am drinking so much information in as I try to get going, that I feel like the puppy in the image below :).

-Mike


(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51882/drinking_through_a_faucet~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1550860691)
 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: doc henderson on February 22, 2019, 02:01:27 PM
I see what you did there.  "someone else embarking on a debarker build"! I think for that specifically you could start a dedicated thread that people can find if searching for that specifically.  post some pics as get started milling.  Regards!
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Magicman on February 22, 2019, 02:44:30 PM
Magicman, are you saying that you cut through, raise saw, backup to start of next cut; while, off bearer pulls the board off the front and stacks it there?
That is exactly what I am saying, except that it is actually off of the back (where the taillight is).  ;D  The previous board(s) that I sawed are gone before I start the next cut and have been (stickered) stacked before I finish that cut and he is ready to grab that next board.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Kwill on February 22, 2019, 03:28:16 PM


P.S.  The weather forecast looks good for me next week.  I am sawing ~75 miles South of Memphis which is ~200 miles SW of you.  Actually you are closer to that job than I am.  :D
im 200 miles from memphis. So if i made a 275 mile road trip i could meet the great magicman in person 8)
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Magicman on February 22, 2019, 03:41:49 PM
Don't know how "great" I am but the next time that I plan to be in the Branson/Springfield area I will give you a buzz and we will meet.   ;D

I have actually been through Bendavis, MO. a couple of times, and I also have a Grandson; Ben Davis.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on February 22, 2019, 04:05:13 PM
Hi guys! Unfortunately my ad for sawmill service was removed form Facebook Marketplace. I did their appeal process, but was denied. They do allow other services such as plumber, etc.., but I guess sawmill not so much. Maybe it was my wording or who I got to review it? Is this common for you sawyers out there or do I need to rewrite my ad to fit properly on their playground? Unfortunately, when I got the "denied" option, there was no appeal again button, so that bridge is out. 

Exciting to see how this venture goes. 

-Mike

PS. Magicman, if your off bearer calls in sick, l am 160 miles from Memphis :).
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: WV Sawmiller on February 22, 2019, 04:06:51 PM
   I just reviewed your PDF and it would not work for me. I throw my slabs where you show the flitches to be edged (on the other side of the sawdust pile) and I off-load off the end of the mill as MM is describing. I don't like an off-bearer behind me as they tend to get in my way as I back up creating safety issues/trip hazards and slowing me down. When I start backing up they remove the board. If fliches as often as not it is faster for me to just toss it on the arms. Also I often have a tractor or skid steer with forks at the end of the mill or a truck/trailer parked there and we pretty much just slide the finished lumber off on to the vehicle. If I am cutting multiple sizes there may be several piles of finished lumber located close around the end of the mill and the off bearer stacks  accordingly (8', 10', 12' 8/4 vs 4/4, etc). In some cases I let a couple of boards lay on the cant before they have to be moved. This allows the off-bearer to run get some more stickers or stage a log or such. I normally edge the flitches against the cant when it gets down to about 3.5" or so. After edging I resume sawing the cant into boards till it is finished - usually 3-4 more boards.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Kwill on February 22, 2019, 04:20:17 PM
If ya blinked when ya went through bendavis you would miss it
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Magicman on February 22, 2019, 05:28:11 PM
Well Missouri State Highway MM does end in Bendavis.   ;D
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on February 22, 2019, 08:11:29 PM
Doc Henderson thank you for that response. I have spent all afternoon working out some design challenges on my Debarker. I am going to go ahead and start another thread: "embarking on a debarker build for my LT-35".

Here is the link to the debarker thread "Building a DIY Hommade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=105297.0)"

-Mike
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Southside on February 22, 2019, 08:13:43 PM
Well Missouri State Highway MM does end in Bendavis.   ;D
My GPS used to call that "Milli-Meter Highway" when driving through there.   ::)
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Kwill on February 22, 2019, 08:42:34 PM
Well Missouri State Highway MM does end in Bendavis.   ;D
Yep it does and im right around the corner from there. 8)
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: charles mann on February 22, 2019, 09:07:51 PM
Hi guys! Unfortunately my ad for sawmill service was removed form Facebook Marketplace. I did their appeal process, but was denied. They do allow other services such as plumber, etc.., but I guess sawmill not so much. Maybe it was my wording or who I got to review it? Is this common for you sawyers out there or do I need to rewrite my ad to fit properly on their playground? Unfortunately, when I got the "denied" option, there was no appeal again button, so that bridge is out.

Exciting to see how this venture goes.

-Mike

PS. Magicman, if your off bearer calls in sick, l am 160 miles from Memphis :).
iv seen adds in the texas market place for sawing. here is an example of how he wrote his. 
Update Your Browser | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/2362423193988072/)
here is another add,
Update Your Browser | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/558394181342683/)
and another,
Update Your Browser | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/571439396661343/)
not sure what you had in your add for it to be denied, but there are adds out there.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on February 23, 2019, 12:17:49 AM
Kwill, I lived about two hours to your south from 2007-2017. 

Charles, that is what I thought. I titled my ad Sawmilling service and I had 6-8 people ask me if it wa available. Like I was selling it. I responded with, "yes, my sawmilling service is available". Must have missed the word "service". Then I appealed and was sure I would win the appeal, but "denied" no explanation or what I had done wrong. I figured I could try again and be more dummy proof with clarity but I was very surprised I lost the appeal.  Thank you VERY much for sharing those links. I looked at all of them. 

-Mike
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on March 06, 2019, 04:38:17 PM
Howdy! I have been knee deep in debarker building, but with a break waiting on parts, I have sifted through a pile of trees a fell several months back and made them ready for sawing once the debarker is done.

I have done some searching on stacking and the basics are prettyy straight forward, but I have found nothing that addresses different size lumber.

For example,

1. I have some 8, 10, 12, and 16ft 2x material. Since it does not come off the mill in order of longest to shortest how do I deal with that?
2. What about mixed species? I have mostly pine, but also some red oak and white oak.  How do I incorporate it all.

also, since I have much pine and little other, there is not enough of the hardwoods to merit a large stack. I also plan to use the pine very soon for barn and shed.

If there is a thread that answers these questions, I would be glad of a link.

In my searching for stacking information, I watched a Norwood video of a gentlemen stacking for air dry and instead of sheet metal, he just uses the initial slab to weigh down the lumber beneath and protect it from the direct sun. I liked that. I thought I needed to run out and buy some tin, but thought I would use this technique, at least in the near term.

Also, what do you do with all the leftover pieces of random sized wood? Does it go to the firewood pile? Seems a shame to lose it, but I can't make sense of how to dry such a random lot of pieces.

Thank you for your counsel.

-Mike

Here is pic of norwood video stack:
 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51882/Slab_rain_screen.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1551908331)
 

Here is some of my 2x material 8ft, 12ft, and 16ft

(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51882/2019-03-06_15_05_00.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1551908367)
 

random sized stuff on some 2x

(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51882/2019-03-06_15_04_01.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1551908411)
 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: doc henderson on March 06, 2019, 05:00:15 PM
Mike, I have had good luck stacking each log its self.  the wider stack does add some stability.  you have to have the same thickness across the pile in each layer so it does not try to twist subsequent layers.  wide is nice for variable width.  Tall is better for same width but variable thickness.  I use metal strapping but considering change to nylon or polyethylene. so I can re-tension as it dries.  i used to keep allot of the half round flitches, and some times they are good to put on the top to shed water and not damage the boards underneath from the strapping.  now I put all the wast wood from the cant on a diff. pallet to use for rustic benches and or firewood



(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51041/3C83BAEB-08F5-4C8C-9D4D-257254405FA7.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1546318692)
 



(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51041/2AB7C2DB-BE94-4D79-BE16-A68D2F32DD06.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1547090126)
 


they can be moved and used separate from other wood.  I can usually move a stack with a 2 wheel cart in my shop.  i use forks out side
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: terrifictimbersllc on March 06, 2019, 05:03:45 PM
Also, what do you do with all the leftover pieces of random sized wood? Does it go to the firewood pile? Seems a shame to lose it
You CAN put the random ones in the firewood pile, and when you run across them again, they'll be air dry.  Then you can decide whether they go in the stove or not.

Unfortunately my shop is full of little odd boards I felt sorry for,  while the good ones are stacked where I've forgotten about them.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: doc henderson on March 06, 2019, 05:06:49 PM
lots of info on stickering on the net.  @Wood Doctor (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=18547)  gene wengert has written about it.  Lots of debate, but it needs to allow airflow and keep the boards straight.  some recommend 2 stickers on the ends to slow end split and of course end sealer be it paint or anchorseal , helps if applied early.  I will try to add links as I find them.  I bought a book on drying hardwood and I think gene has published extensively as well.  He may chime in and can give links and direction.  You are off to a good start.  made some lumber.  when I first started, I kept every piece and now I am not as afraid to toss something in the burn pile.  
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: terrifictimbersllc on March 06, 2019, 05:08:49 PM
Whoa-DocH-I don't know if you know about the sticker police, who have cast a shadow of fear for some here, but you don't need to worry about that-just don't be surprised if you get recruited.  Just saying.  :D :D
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: doc henderson on March 06, 2019, 05:12:28 PM
Most will state not to mix species, but for air drying, I think you could mix red and white oak, or maybe pine and ERC.  Prob not in a formal kiln.  i kept allot in the beginning but i also do crafty junk on my engraver.  I was raised by a man who grew up in the depression, and he was raised by a man who had had polio and could not find work.  so I save allot!!! You could donate to a local school woodshop if it helps you sleep at night.  Thanks for bringing us along on your adventure.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: doc henderson on March 06, 2019, 05:13:42 PM
Thanks TT  8)
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: garyfg on March 06, 2019, 05:16:28 PM
You need to stack and sticker your lumber on a slant so the water will run off pretty fast if its going to be outside for very long even if you cover it with tin or whatever you choose. I always have alot of trouble with the wind blowing off what ever I used. I would stack my lumber so it is all the same size in each stack so you won't have to move lumber around to get to the size you want. I know that will be alot of different stacks but it will save time in the end.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: doc henderson on March 06, 2019, 05:27:11 PM
after I cut a cant, i wrap it with a couple ratchet straps and move it up in front of my shop on the concrete.  I flip the board after sweeping sawdust off, and sticker it as a log, so boards can be book matched after dry if needed/wanted. The top and bottom boards contain the most sapwood if the log was flat sawn.  i use wood from lowes that they give away from the bottom of bungs of wood.  the boards with a groove so that it is 1.5 inches off the ground and has a daddo for the strapping to pass under.  i tension with steel strapping to a "high C twang"  and can move the stack easily with pallet forks.  Your first logs and stacks look great and they will be the worst you ever do.!!!  Enjoy.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: YellowHammer on March 06, 2019, 07:00:09 PM
Standardization of length for all the wood on a stacked pack is important for proper sticker placement. It is possible to play Tetris with wood stacks, but the can lead to problems.

We use open bottom pallets or skids for all our stacking.  It makes things very convenient.  Open bottoms prevent sticker staining.

We prefer web strapping for green wood as it can be retensioned easily and has some elasticity.  We use green poly for safety when transporting.  

We will sticker but not band a pack until its has approximately 800 to 1000 bdft.  We leave unfilled or partial packs "open" to deal with exactly the problem you describe, stacking uneven lengths or species.  When the wood is being stickered, it is simply sorted and added to a pack of the same length and species of previously stacked boards.  When it gets to a full pack, it is banded, labeled, and entered into our database and tracked from green to sold.  In our skids we put the runners at the same distances we place the stickers, so the runners actually become stickers, when stacked on top of each other.

You could use the same approach for your example of stacking red and white oak.  Put the red oak on one skid the white oak on another, and when done sawing, put the one skid on top of the other and haul them off.

The best weight to put on stickered stacks of lumber is other stickered stacks of lumber.  The runners apply high loads directly over the stickers of the pack underneath.

(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21488/image~75.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1412107970)(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21488/image~160.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1443753847)
  


(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21488/image~57.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1400899152)




   

Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: BenTN on March 06, 2019, 07:13:49 PM
Mike, try removing/replacing the word "service" from your facebook post. There are plenty of ads there for "sawmill for hire", "mobile sawmilling"
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on March 06, 2019, 08:36:29 PM
Excellent. Thank you for the clarification gents.

Doc and Yellowhammer, you two set a very good example of how to do things well. Doc, your stacks could be a furniture. YH, that is a very admirable operation you have there and a well organized bigger operation.... can I delete my photos  :D.

I went through a pile of logs I fell several months ago (ready for burning) and was able to salvage 34 logs, mostly 8ft. Some 12-16ft also. I used my skid steer and got them in position for my sawmill. Once my debarker is done, I will get to it.

I put a new ad on FB today and it was immediately in red. I removed it. I will try the "Sawmill for hire" route. I did ask FB what am I doing wrong and how do I do it right. I took the example of Southside Logger and put an ad on Craigslist. Got contacted by a country singer this evening (we do live near Nashville  8)) and he was interested in having me saw about 40 Cedar logs that they fell some months ago. I am about to email him. That man had impeccable manners, so much so, it stood out. Anyways, it is about a half hour from me.

Big question: how do you charge BF? I assumed that when sawing someone's log into lumber that .45 a board foot meant the bill is determined by what they have stacked. Is this how you charge for portable... board foot of lumber stacked? In contrast to log scale.

Do you bring stickers with you or do you mill them on site out of the lumber you are sawing for someone? If they do not want to be part of the sawing, do you bring a helper or do it yourself for smaller job. If you do it yourself how do you account for the added work in the pricing?

Thank you!

-Mike
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on March 06, 2019, 08:59:15 PM
Yellow Hammer, I am thinking those long pallets are a very nifty idea. Once I have my land developed more, I will go that route. Currently it is muck and mire. However, maybe still a good idea if I were to setup a some level platforms to set such pallets on, even if they are stop gap measures for a couple years. Nifty trick indeed.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: doc henderson on March 06, 2019, 09:26:00 PM
mike, I can see if I can find a pic of my first stack of blue spruce.  It will make you feel better!!!  do you plan to saw at his place or bring the cedar back home.  If he is polite, might be military or simply southern!  cedar can have a lot of silica and dull your blades.  did he say what dimensions he wants and how big the logs are.  sounds like great first job.  congrats.  don't sell yourself short.  
ps might be able to make stickers out of some of that stack you have.  I make mine as I cut, usually the first and or last boards that tend to have more sapwood.  I cut it into lengths the same length as the cant is wide and rip 3/4" thick on a table saw.  
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on March 06, 2019, 09:48:18 PM
Doc, being humbled is a good thing. Someone stated a simultude of "being a sawyer is more than cutting a log into lumber" and he was correct. It is very good for me to see modeled excellence even when it shows my infancy. 

I would be sawing at his place. He wants to focus on posts as big and as long as possible; and then get any other lumber out of it as possible. I asked him for a photo of the log pile when I emailed him my info sheet tonight. 

I did tell him I am a newb when we spoke. We will see if I hear back from him. Even if this doesn't pan out, i am encouraged that I am at least getting some leads in only hours of an ad going up. 

I am very glad to have the 34 logs piled in front of the camper. This whole adventure is a little scary, but I have no choice but to be diligent. The problem I see is making the wisest decisions. It is easy to get tunnel vision or to miss the forest for the tree. I sharpened my chainsaw today. I had tried some years ago but gave up at my poor results and ended up paying for a local shop to sharpen every time. Now that I will be using it a lot more, I decided I need to be able to do it myself. So, Youtube U (my alma mater) provided me with some examples and I did it successfully. Stihl is making a new ( I had never seen it before) hand sharpener for about $40; so, I have that on my list of nice to haves. It sharpens and sets depth gauge at same time. Squirrel. 

-Mike
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Southside on March 06, 2019, 10:13:45 PM
Mike - FWIW cedar tends to have a lot of taper, bow, and bark inseam, not to mention long healed over ant nests from 1542, in it so you don't always get the size post that one would think a log will yield, at least not a post free of wane, just keep that in mind.  Also cedar bark will fetch up on the fingers that  are located just inside of the dust chute on your saw, so if you don't see sawdust coming out of the chute and instead it seems to be pouring out of the covers or right around the chute exit stop and clean out the hang-ups there at the safety fingers otherwise you will knock the band off of the wheels at the very least.  
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: doc henderson on March 06, 2019, 10:15:28 PM
I get pallets at lowes with permission.  you might collect a few for stacking wood.  If you are going to stack and sticker, might be best to go hourly.  if you hit a snag cause you are new, you can take the appropriate time off your bill. If he has the logs cut, he must be serious.  I hope it pans out.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on March 06, 2019, 11:14:57 PM
SSL, thank you for those Cedar tips!! I was surprised to see my 2011 LT35 does not have those fingers. I may need to inspect and see if they were cut out or not included that year.

Doc, is it not customary to stack and sticker the lumber... or is that normally left for the customer to do?

I actually have a bunch of regular size pallets. They are too small, but, maybe I can splice them together with a couple of pieces of lumber. Thanks for triggering this thought. We are part of a really awesome food coop and I typically take the pallets that everyone's food arrives on. The drivers are glad not to have to get rid of them for their next load. Tomorrow I will splice a couple together and see how it works. 

Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on March 06, 2019, 11:21:02 PM
Yellow Hammer, I was just looking over your air dry stack line outside. Do you have anything that you put on top to cover it? 

I see you have embedded railroad ties in the crushed green concrete you mentioned earlier? Looks to be a steel platform on top of the ties? Was that a planned platform or a re-purposed item that presented itself?
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Tom the Sawyer on March 06, 2019, 11:34:43 PM
MikeySP, in addition to, or in lieu of, an ad on FB Marketplace; have you built, or considered a Facebook business page?  I have never run an ad in the marketplace but do get a lot of calls, likes, and shares from my FB business page.
Update Your Browser | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/TomTheSawyerPortableSawmill/) 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: YellowHammer on March 06, 2019, 11:57:45 PM
Actually, that load is one of our weekly kilns loads coming out, itís all cherry, and I was using it as an example of how pallets can be easily and cleanly stacked in multiples.  

The picture shows our kiln track resting on crossties emebedded in the gravel, and thatís exactly what we do in one of our airdrying building.  We put gravel down then embed and carefully level crossties in the gravel, then back fill with more gravel, jus like building a rail road.  The pallets of wood go on top of the crossties.  The setup is very stable and gets the bottoms of the pallets off the mud, which is important to prevent insects from getting to it.

The air drying areas we have do have covers, to keep rain off the wood. 

Our wood stays on the pallet through the entire process.  From the mill to the stacking area, then to one of our air drying shed, then to the kiln, then to the intermediate storage, then to deadstacking, then loaded in a trailer for planing, and eventually stacked in our warehouse.  All on the same pallet. Hereís some pics.


(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21488/IMG_1202.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1517806800)
 

(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21488/image~114.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1431493034)(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21488/IMG_1562.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1523415128)

Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on March 07, 2019, 12:16:41 AM
Tom, that may be a good option. My buddy has been prompting me to make use of technology for marketing. I will think on that.

Yellow Hammer, Thank you for the clarification incredible operation. I was just showing the pics and explaining what you said to my wife and daughter, inspirational and educational. 

-Mike
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Southside on March 07, 2019, 07:02:23 AM
As far as the fingers go, let's just say my 35 might be missing one or two as well. Perhaps the previous owner of your mill had a saws-all run away from him like mine did and find it's way into there.  Just be careful not to allow anyone near the dust chute when sawing as those fingers prevent a broken band from flying out, and yes you will have them break. It's quite the event.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: YellowHammer on March 07, 2019, 07:43:38 AM
MikeySP, thanks for the compliments.
One trick we use is to layout the pallet runners on 16 inch centers, (or whatever works best for you) and then use a can of white spray paint and outline the placement of the runners on the concrete.  So anytime we need more pallets, we have a ready marked template on the floor.



Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on March 07, 2019, 08:21:07 AM
Southside Logger, that is good to know the point of those fingers. I did not do the math, but noticed them on other pics and did not notice them on my mill. I will scrutinize, but I am pretty sure they are no there.

Yellow Hammer, your welcome, but you earned it. I like shortcuts that make periodic tasks efficient, so your tip is noted. Thank you. I was just doing my morning reading, and I found you had a website :) Great treat to read your main page and the kiln page. I was delighted to see your comment as I closed the page with your website. I will try to finish reading it this evening or tomorrow morn, but I need to get to work.

Have a good day gentlemen. 

-Mike

Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: WV Sawmiller on March 07, 2019, 08:24:00 AM
MikeySP,

   You asked about calculating bf for billing. Some sawyers scale the log before sawing and bill based on that. I actually saw then measure the stack at the end of the job. Be sure to tally every stack before it leaves the area if that situation occurs during sawing. If I beat the scale I win. If it is less than scale the customer wins. No big win or loss either way. Some people keep up with each board as it comes off the mill then tally that at the end of the job. I'm not that coordinated and usually the boards are coming too fast for me to keep an accurate count which I why I tally at the end of the job. In some cases if the stacks aren't that uniform instead of trying to count every board I measure the finished stack and the customer and I agree on an average or estimated height, width and length and I calculate based on that. It is easier if you keep all lengths the same and stacks are kept neat.

    For some jobs I use an hourly rate - small, short logs, specialty sawing, etc. If sawing under 1", which is common with cedar customers, every board under 1" is counted as if it were 1" thick. Some sawyers count any log under 8' as if it were 8'. I also have a $25 band fee if I hit metal - this is common practice for most of us.

    Remember to discuss and make sure the customer understands and concurs with your billing system before you ever put saw to wood. Any system is fair as long as both parties understand and agree to the method and rate. Good luck.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: alan gage on March 07, 2019, 03:25:48 PM
is it not customary to stack and sticker the lumber... or is that normally left for the customer to do?
 

I believe the common practice is to not stack and sticker wood for the customer at the regular sawing rate. That would be an extra charge.

You mentioned waiting to get your debarker done before sawing logs. Wondering why the wait? Unless it's going to be done in a couple days I'd just start sawing. Your blades will dull a little faster but you're going to start learning a lot in a hurry once you begin sawing.

Alan
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on March 07, 2019, 04:27:44 PM
Alan, thank you for answering that question. 

I had plenty to do in the mean time. All but my springs arrived, so I am on to the debarker install now. My logs are in really bad shape from sitting in a burn pile for many months, so I wanted to wait the couple days to preserve my blades. I also had to collect said logs, which I did yesterday. 34 of them :).

Thank you.

-Mike
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: WV Sawmiller on March 07, 2019, 04:53:01 PM
  I'm with Alan on the stickering. I typically show the customer how to sticker them (because they don't know how) but my normal rate includes only sawing and I tell the customer to provide a helper to stack and help feed logs to the mill and such. I do have different rates if I have to stack and even more if I stack and sticker. Not to say I won't help the customer or his helper to move a heavy board or slab from time to time but they know it is a courtesy and not part of the normal job. 

   Another reason to have a good conversation with the customer about responsibilities and such prior to starting the job. There should be no shocks prior to, during the job or when it comes time to do the tally and pay the piper.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: doc henderson on March 07, 2019, 05:14:24 PM
Mike, I have had my mill for over 5 years and never had a debarker.  And in case you were wondering after all this, the answer is no, I do not plan to build my own.   :D  
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on March 07, 2019, 08:40:41 PM
I am so lost. I am reminded of my first time with a compass and a map. Could not find my first point and my land navigation adventure turned into a 10 mile road march.  :D

I am going to be making some mistakes. Who knows, with no follow up calls from any of the three potential customers, maybe my brutal honesty "I am a newb!" is chasing them off. I am prepared to eat some loss as long as it is not to my integrity. 

I noticed Tom The Sawyer sells stickers "bundles of 25, 3' stickers are $15 per bundle, and 4' stickers are $18 per bundle."  Is this normative? Is there a normative? What about you gentlemen who engage in portable work?

Doc, are you doing much volume?

Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: WV Sawmiller on March 07, 2019, 08:58:17 PM
   I offer to sell dry stickers but never get any takers. I suggest to the customer to use dry stickers and tell them they can buy 3/4" plywood or cheap 2" furring strips and make their own. Sometimes the first thing I cut for a customer is a scrappy,sacrificial log into stickers then we generate some more during edging especially when cutting 4/4 lumber. Of course these are green but better than flat stacking. 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: doc henderson on March 07, 2019, 09:13:50 PM
when your customers meet you and get to know you , integrity will not be an issue.  After that 10 mile hike, I bet you learned compass and map like the back of your hand.  I am a big, "that which does not kill us, makes us stronger",  The serious guys will appreciate your honesty.  If you work for a hands off guy, he can pay you more or to include a helper.  The do-it-yourselfers will chip in under your guidance.  It is time for you to jump out of the plane and go mill some wood!  hope to meet you someday.  If most people had your discipline and enthusiasm, the world would be a better place.  My regards!!!
ps I am a uber-hobbiest so I make money at my day job, but know how to work like I don't know where my next paycheck is coming from! smiley_smash
pss if you don't hear back, call up the one you wanted the most and reduce you hourly rate by 10$ and hour, and after that you can stop telling everyone you are new, you have milled more wood than any of them!
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Magicman on March 07, 2019, 09:28:34 PM
Who knows, with no follow up calls from any of the three potential customers
I will actually get a sawing job from maybe Ĺ of the folks that call for many different reasons.  They find out that felling, bucking, and skidding is work.  And then there is money.  You give a good estimate of the cost and it is more than they expected.  Lastly there is always competition.  Yup, someone may cut your price, or maybe they were checking someone else's price when they called you.  It's all business and there is enough to go around.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Old Greenhorn on March 07, 2019, 09:48:26 PM
I am so lost. I am reminded of my first time with a compass and a map. Could not find my first point and my land navigation adventure turned into a 10 mile road march.  :D
I was running through the most recent posts and saw your comment above and it gave me pause. First, even though you haven't seen me say anything in this thread, you should know I have followed every post. You were getting better advice from smarter folks than me and the most I could contribute was to keep my mouth shut. I admire your work ethic, effort, and focus.
However, those words you wrote hit me like a brick. I have said that to myself more than a few times in my life when I had made a major life choice and put a lot of time, money, and all my effort into it without seeing the results "I expected" in the time frame that "I expected". Here are the words that popped into my head the instant I read what you wrote:
TAKE A BREATH!
You can't expect the world to respond on your timeline. You may tell people you are a 'newbie', but frankly, that is your perspective. From their perspective, you know more than they ever will already. You are not giving yourself credit for your research, study, and hands on work. You are not a newbie, you are somebody who is in the early stages. That's all. You can share that you are not a journeyman miller and you can give them a price break on that, but I wouldn't go much further. You could say "I haven't been doing this very long". I would rather you focus on the customer's satisfaction at the end of the job. It won't take but 2 or 3 jobs before you have your sea legs and can decide better how to charge. Get some jobs, do them cheap, even if you take a loss (but cover your costs plus a little). After those jobs, don't let anybody take advantage, set your rates. Folks will remember your attitude more than they remember the cost. Above all, do not sell yourself short (and I see you are doing this right now). You've got this, you are doing all the right things, but there is one thing you can't rush, and that is time. You need some time on the job doing the work. Doc had some great words too, read that again, then take another breath.
Good Luck. Everybody here is behind you.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Tom the Sawyer on March 07, 2019, 10:39:31 PM
MikeySP,

Taking a breath is good advice.  It is easy to fall victim to analysis paralysis, and that may be why you might feel lost at times.   headscratch

Simplification - the suggestions about spending a day with an experienced sawyer would be extremely valuable.  In the mean time, spending some time with your mill is very important.  I saw that you wanted to get going in 2 weeks, it didn't happen and it probably was a source of additional stress - which interferes with your ability to make decisions.  

I would suggest that you put in some time making sawdust before booking appointments.  There is a learning curve to running a mill, more for custom sawing, and even more for working mobile.  There is no magic number of logs, or thousands of board feet before you are ready.  If you have the logs, mill your own and build a stockpile (you'll get experience stacking and stickering).  If you don't have the logs, maybe a Grand Opening sale for a few select (family, friends) clients.  Not only do you get vital experience, you'll also learn if their are any quirks in your mill, how long it takes to accomplish certain tasks, etc.  I would also video everything you do, it can be very helpful to review processes, time activities, etc.  smiley_computer_monitor

I know you are reading and learning a lot but actually running the mill is important too, and it will make what you read more informative.  help_me

Oh yeah, on the topic of stickers. Here in the Midwest, I have not been able to find a professional source of stickers, unless I am willing to buy a semi-load from the SE, NE, or NW part of the country.  Part of my protocol is to make sure that clients understand the drying process for the lumber we make.  I mill hardwoods almost exclusively, primarily for woodworkers and custom furniture makers.  If their lumber sits dead stacked too long, or has defects from improper stickering, they might take responsibility... or maybe blame the sawyer.  no_no

Many of my clients have never had a log milled and there are some that didn't know that the wood had to dry.  I furnish them with the information they need to successfully dry their lumber, and several methods of making stickers.  I offer stickers as a convenience, I much prefer they make their own but for some, a one-stop solution is worth it.  Most years I sell between 1000 and 1500 stickers, on a production volume of about 50,000 bf.  They are priced to cover the cost of making them. ;)   
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on March 07, 2019, 10:48:23 PM
Old Greenhorn, well said! Things can get really BIG when focusing through a magnifying glass. It was good to be pulled away from the glass to see the world. Thank you and I did go back and reread Doc's wise words. 

Thank you all for your great kindness. I have someone else calling me now. My 17y/o daughter is wanting a game night since my son is off tomorrow. TTYL.

-Mike

haha, Tom, your post showed when I went to post this. Thank you and I agree. The debarker build has consumed a lot of time, but I have over 30 logs stacked and ready to mill. If the rains are not torrential, i will be going after them as soon as I get the debarker done. Tomorrow hopefully. 

Goodnight men!
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: WV Sawmiller on March 07, 2019, 11:17:18 PM
   I have told people sawing is like driving an old fashioned stick shift up a steep hill and making a left turn. For a new driver just downshifting and remembering about using the brake and clutch up a hill when slowing down is hard enough without having to remember to use the turn signal and watch ahead and your rear view mirror. For an experienced driver these steps become automatic and routine. They only become automatic and routine after lots of practice. Every log is different and the more different, the more you learn so by all means saw as much and often as you can and watching and sawing with others is even better. At first, like when you get your new mill and the WM rep shows you how to operate it, you don't even know what questions to ask. 

   Little things matter. I promise when getting ready to move the mill you will raise the head and start forward then realize you did not raise the head enough to clear the loading arms. Raise the head, move forward and lower the head. Ooops - forgot to raise the travel pin. Run over and do that. Lower it down and ready to go - right? Did you remember to hook the safety chain so the head doesn't bounce off the pin? Great. Now do a quick walk around before towing. How come that hydraulic arm is hanging so low? It's gonna hit the first rock or root you drive over. Let's go raise it. Wait - it won't move? Why not? Oh yeah, the head has to to be against the copper power bar at the front of the mill. Ok -raise the head and run it back up front. It won' t lift - oh yeah, that dang safety chain is holding it back. Go disconnect it. Can't - its under tension. Go back, lower the head, release the chain, raise the head, back up front, collapse that cylinder, return and lower the head and connect that safety chain. Okay, now we can go. How come those fenders are leaning against that stack of wood?

   Get the idea? It all comes together but after lots of baby steps. Don't try to run before you learn to crawl. Keep on reading and keep on posting. If we laugh it is because you remind us when we were in your shoes.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: YellowHammer on March 07, 2019, 11:33:13 PM
Sawing up a few of your own logs will get your confidence and knowledge going pretty well as the guys have said.  

If you want to visit, Iím a little over two hours south of you, just north of Huntsville, Al.  Iím sawing pretty much every day and maybe I can help flatten out some of the learning curve for you.



Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on March 08, 2019, 12:06:08 AM
Well, Emily won the game. 

WV Sawmiller thank you for that dose of perspective. I have told a similar analogy to my children, good to hear myself.  

Yellow Hammer, I came very close to contacting youthe beginning of the week, but thought I need to saw some logs up first to make the best of a visit, so I opted to round up those 30+ logs. I really appreciate the opportunity and will be in touch soon. 

Goodnight all!

-Mike

Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: WV Sawmiller on March 08, 2019, 09:29:46 AM
   Sawing a few logs then going to visit an experienced sawyer is a great idea because then you will appreciate the skill and time/work saving steps he follows and will also give you several questions for him to answer. Patience grasshopper - this too will pass with time. :D
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: YellowHammer on March 08, 2019, 09:29:47 PM
I've always believed that every high grade hardwood log can yield a either majority of excellent lumber, or a majority of poor lumber, depending on both the sawyer and the kiln operator.  

There are lots of way to properly slice and dice a log, this is just one of the go-to patterns I use, and I would show you if you visit.

There is a lot of very useful information contributed by many different sawyers in the thread.

Is it a Drying or Sawing Dilemma in Drying and Processing (http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,90483.20.html)
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: alan gage on March 09, 2019, 09:15:14 AM
I got my mill late in the cutting season and didn't get it fixed up and ready to use until the spring so I spent the winter on this forum reading (and re-reading) all I could and finding wonderful old topics (like the one YH just linked to above). It was overwhelming but as soon as I actually started sawing logs in the spring everything started to make sense. Some things were easier than they seemed when I'd read about them and some were harder but it wasn't until I actually started making sawdust that anything I'd read really sunk in. You'll be fine and will learn quickly. 

Alan
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on March 09, 2019, 11:37:10 AM
WV Sawmiller and Alan, I am convinced that is the best thing I can do at this point, saw some logs, then do as WV said: visit with Mr. YellowHammer. Sadly, the arbor had a machining error. I was able to fix the inside burr with a reamer and a couple turns of the hand. However, the blade would not fit on the outside, but Tim at Woodmizer interpreted my situation very well and overnighted me one, unfortunately it won't be here until Monday Afternoon because of the weekend. 

With a 40MPH wind advisory, I disassembled our two shade/rain tents (temporary outside shops) and stoed some of my tools in the cargo trailer. I will do whatever outside tasks I can today as long as rain/wind levels permit.

I know it would be nice to saw even without the debarker, but I will not do that. I am too close to not wait a few days. 

YellowHammer, thank you for the link. I read it and will re-read it a couple times, so I can comprehend it better. I will study that cut pattern/order especially and the remarks about it so I can grasp the wisdom of it. 

-Mike 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Woodpecker52 on March 09, 2019, 11:51:57 AM
Just start sawin, just saying, its hard to break anything on a woodmizer except a blade!  after a day you will feel 1000% better. :P ::) ??? 8)
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Woodpecker52 on March 09, 2019, 12:17:06 PM
As far as blades, do as Magicman do, get some WM turbo 7 degrees and get a bunch.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: WV Sawmiller on March 09, 2019, 12:51:13 PM
   I'm with woodpecker. If you get the chance start sawing even without the debarker. The debarker just extends the life of your blade. It does not make better lumber. Besides - you will probably saw into a side support or clamp after a few passes anyway and have to replace that blade anyway. :D :D Those side supports like mine did not come with all those teeth marks on the rollers. You have to customize them yourself. ;)
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on March 14, 2019, 08:26:43 AM
Ok, Gents, while I had a couple delays, the debarker is up and running and I was able to run my sawmill for several hours yesterday. It was slow, but I was very satisfied to get he most sawing I have done in a day and since starting on that debarker build. 


(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51882/2019-03-13_18_41_16.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1552565686)
 

Since those logs have spent 6-12 months lying on the ground (burn pile) I have not only been sawing logs, but big white grub worms. I have seen a dozen of these vermin in only the few logs I sawed. 

This wood is going into my barn and my son is building himself a small office this coming week. 

Can I spray bora care and call it a day? Do we frame his storage shed (office) and once dried-in use the good quality bug spray we have (termador) and then insulate, cover the walls and be good? I hate for him (office), me (barn) to use this lumber for the above mentioned projects and have HUGE regrets, but I do not want to waste money either. 

Thank you.

-Mike
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on March 14, 2019, 09:17:09 AM
I noticed Bora care is pretty spendy and end inexpensive Timbor is pre infestation. 

Do these bugs die when the wood dries out from being in a dehumidified environment? I tend to doubt this as I recall reading somewhere about furniture with little sawdust piles from PPB (Powderpost beetles) and the like.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on March 14, 2019, 10:09:13 AM
Btulloh stated the following: 

"Those grubs sound like pine borers.  They won't bother you later on, but PPB can part of your future.  They probably aren't there now.  FWIW, I had some pine logs that sat too long and got the borers in them.  I sawed siding for my sawmill shed out those logs and put the siding up.  After two years, no sign of any other issues.  I do have some nice peep holes to look through though."

I just a read a bit about PPB (Powderpost beetles) and I don't see those types of holes so far. 

I would certainly feel very bad if my son spends $1500 on all the other materials for this little office and I give him wood that turns his project into a nightmare.

-Mike
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: YellowHammer on March 14, 2019, 10:48:01 PM
Hereís my take on bugs, in general.  The only ones I worry about are the ones I canít see.  The big grubs, the carpenter ants, and even the termites are easy to identify and deal with in a physical sense.  Termaticides, Deltamethrin, etc are commercially available and commercially effective for these. Youíd see and hear them if they were in the wood.  They are big and noticeable. Cut the lumber, shake them out, trim the boards, etc to get rid of them.  I used to have a flock of pet chickens that would stand be me when I milled nasty wood and peck the bugs from the boards and the ground.  

Iím simplifying for the sake of brevity, but powder post beetles, in general are very specific in the wood that they like, hardwood beetles only like hardwood, softwood beetle only dine in softwood.  So they are self limiting in a sense.  You may have an infested hardwood table, but it wonít spread to the pine studs.  It may very well spread to the hardwood floor, if you have one.

Most of the little black holes you see in hardwoods when it is green are ambrosia beetles. They will leave when the wood dries.  The holes are easy to identify.  Not a problem.  

There are commercially available insecticides much more aggressive than Timbor, but itís an industry standard because itís effective and very safe.



Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: doc henderson on March 15, 2019, 08:55:50 AM
hey mike, can you post some pics of the holes with a scale and or pics of the grubs, and wood type,  will see if @Wood Doctor (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=18547)  will chime in.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on March 15, 2019, 09:22:42 AM
Thank you Yellow Hammer. 

The logs I am sawing may have all of the above? We are not using it for any furniture grade stuff that I forsee.  Barn, Framing, etc... 

Since my son is framing up his shed office today, I will wait until it is dried in and then spray with my professional insecticide to make sure we do not leave a haven behind the finish wall/ceilling. 

However, I am very interested in more about the commercially available insecticides. I have found a few threads but limited info. Seems Boracare and Timbor dominate on the forum. 

Great idea Doc Henderson. I am working with my son in picking uip some materials/tools this morning, bt will get to sawing in a few hours and I will keep my phone ready for pics as they become available. 

-Mike
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: YellowHammer on March 15, 2019, 01:47:17 PM
Timbor uses Disodium Octaborate Tetrahydrate.  Boracare uses an additional ingredient to help it absorb into the wood some small distance.  

The active ingredient is extremely deadly to wood boring insects but also very safe for humans.  It will not break down over time, but is a surface treatment, not killing insects deep in the wood unless injected directly into their galleries or introduced under pressure.  However, it makes a barrier such that insects emerging from the wood are exposed and killed as well as any new insects boring in. Timbor and the like are also very effective for mold and fungus control.  So its a very useful one-two punch, and and considering it doesn't degrade over time (it will get washed away) and that its relatively inexpensive, explains why if is so popular in the industry.

If you have an active infestation, then contact insecticides, such as pyrethrins (I have had good success with Delta Dust), are effective, and other more residual herbicides require a Restricted Use Applicators License, sounds like you may have one, too.  Apply directly as a spray or powder, and watch the critters die.  Termidor, cypermethrin, etc are effective and moderately residual (3 months) and I very rarely use them on my personal wood, and never on a customer's wood due to liability reasons.  I would have to provide SDS with my sales, and customers don't want chemically impregnated wood, even if the surface treatments plane off in the first pass or so, or have degraded over time.  

Its important, for my purposes (others may well do it differently), to treat the wood based not only on the threat of infestation, but also the end user.  So when a customer asks me if I use chemicals on their wood, the answer is always an empathatic "No".

The kiln is the best way to sterilize wood, if you have access to one.  
 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: burtle on March 16, 2019, 02:51:25 AM
Mike,

I'm glad you started this thread!

I'm looking to buy my first mill as well because I want to start a portable mill business on the side of my regular job.

I'm looking at a 2018 LT40 wide.


I've learned a lot from this thread!


Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on March 16, 2019, 08:15:46 AM
Yellow Hammer, excellent. thank you for the additional data on the insecticides. 

Folks, 

I am sawing up 5/8 x 6" pine lap siding for my son today.

What would you recommend I use for a protective coating? Thomson waterseal I have some on hand? I will spray it for bugs first since it is likely infested.  But, I want to give my son the best possibility to have some longevity from rain and the overhang is very small. I heard of using old motor oil, but am not sure if that would stink? After living in this camper for a year and a half, this oasis for his study will be very welcome to my honorable son. Plus, we get one side of our dinner table back from his little dominion :). I will spray for bugs on all sides. I plan to lay siding out on pallets side by side, spray it, flip it, spray again. We can install and spray water protective layer on office, or we can spray it on the pallets. If i do it on the pallets, I can spray both sides and this may prove a help when splatter goes up and between the boards? 

In my pic below, I am thinking the red pattern is the way to go to lessen the amount of cupping... am I wrong? Does it matter?



(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51882/pale-log-end-image_csp48508172.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1552737799)
 

Skidsteer won't start. I think rain may have gotten to electrical while sitting. Started like a champ the other day. I wish this thing was wired with essentials. All the safeties, computer really make it a bit of a challenge for me. Of well.  I may postpone working on it, so I can saw. I spent most of yesterday helping my son get started on his office. When I finally got to the sawing, I discovered the skidsteer would not start.

-Mike
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on March 16, 2019, 08:22:37 AM
Hi Burtle! Thank you for chiming in. We have bith learned a lot... you learned it 18 years younger than me.. good for you! :) I hope you have much wisdom and prosper in in accomplishing your vision.

Edgar Guest poem, It Couldnít Be Done, to encourage you:

"Somebody said that it couldnít be done
     But he with a chuckle replied
That ďmaybe it couldnít,Ē but he would be one
     Who wouldnít say so till heíd tried.
So he buckled right in with the trace of a grin
     On his face. If he worried he hid it.
He started to sing as he tackled the thing
     That couldnít be done, and he did it!

Somebody scoffed: ďOh, youíll never do that;
     At least no one ever has done it;Ē
But he took off his coat and he took off his hat
     And the first thing we knew heíd begun it.
With a lift of his chin and a bit of a grin,
     Without any doubting or quiddit,
He started to sing as he tackled the thing
     That couldnít be done, and he did it.

There are thousands to tell you it cannot be done,
     There are thousands to prophesy failure,
There are thousands to point out to you one by one,
     The dangers that wait to assail you.
But just buckle in with a bit of a grin,
     Just take off your coat and go to it;
Just start in to sing as you tackle the thing
     That ďcannot be done,Ē and youíll do it."

-Mike
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Magicman on March 16, 2019, 08:27:48 AM
I would not saw red.  I would saw down to the blue from each side and edge those flitches.  I would then saw ~1/3 of blue, rotate the cant 180į, and saw through. 

Now when installing; orient the boards so that the pith side is toward the outside of the building.  (Bark side toward the building.)  This will cause the edges of the boards to tend to cup toward the building.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: YellowHammer on March 16, 2019, 08:36:57 AM
FWIW, I agree completely with MM.  The goal for flat sawn lumber is to always try to center the axis of the board with the axis of the log, no matter how far away.  Center the axis as best you can and balance the board.  Much better behaved lumber that way.  

Sawing red is a modified quartersawing pattern and will reduce cup in some of the boards but they will curve and need to be edged after drying.  If you were sawing red, stay well away from the pith or the boards will dry like McDonalds Golden Arches.  Not really a good sawing pattern for siding.  
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on March 16, 2019, 09:03:19 AM
MM and YH, thank you. Blue pattern it is. 

-Mike
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on March 16, 2019, 09:50:09 AM
The lap siding will not be getting kiln dried. The logs have sat for six months to a year. When he attaches the siding this coming week it will be done as shown in illustration below. Will the fact that the pine is not kiln dried cause us a lot of grief? 

-Mike
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51882/Lap_Siding.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1552744195)
 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Magicman on March 16, 2019, 11:02:22 AM
Just be sure to turn the correct face out/in.  I would lay a ~1" strip about Ĺ" up from the bottom so that the bottom board will match the others.  Tapering the bottom board edge will also provide a sharp edge to serve as a drip edge.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: 78NHTFY on March 16, 2019, 12:45:41 PM
MikeySP--good thread.  You got the addiction bad....and there's no cure :o!  It's revived my own interest in cobbling together a debarker for my LT 40 using an old electric chainsaw with a modified cutter bar/chain.  It's just a pipe dream as I have none of your skills :'(...
I have cut lots of 6" pine lap siding.  I cut 6" cants, lay 2 or 3 together on the sawmill bed and saw. (Drop 1/2"--saw, drop 1/2"--saw: with 1/8" kerf of the blade, you get 3/8" siding).   Best to sticker dry for a month at least, it dries fast.  It will also reveal which ones are no good (curl, cup, split....).  I cut mine 3/8" and got 95% good ones (cut like in blue diagram you made).  When dry, used old cans of left over stain and rolled the back side of each piece (8' to 12' long), to seal backside.  Then did two coats of stain for the front side of the siding.  Because lap siding has space behind most of each board (4"), dispensed with any verticals for an air gap.  Nailed bottom of each siding with stainless ring shanks.  They've been on 2 Winters so far and still looking very good.  Oh yeah--make sure your trim (corners, windows) are thick enough to account for the lap.  Attached is a pic of my kitchen addition.  All the best, Rob.
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13967/IMG_0734.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503092057)
 

Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on March 16, 2019, 01:57:29 PM
Magicman, thank you for that correction. I will hearken!

Rob, thank you for chiming in, for the encouragement, and for the good ideas. The office/shed can survive for a few weeks while I see how it all dries up. Pic looks good!

-Mike
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on March 18, 2019, 10:52:42 AM
Howdy! I visited a potential customer's house. I am trying to figure out what he can expect from his desires and what to charge. 

General Details (numbers are close approximations):
  • 50 Cedar logs
  • Felled a year ago. 
  • Large ends 8"-11"
  • Small ends 6"- 10" 
  • Logs are all 20+feet, so I will buck (cut) them to lengths desired by customer.
  • Customer does not help me at all; so, I do it alone or hire a helper.
  • Logs are stacked in two piles. One larger (40 logs) and one small, 10 logs). End-to-end, so move is about 25 feet.
  • No log handling equipment on site, besides my can't hook.
  • He is 30 minutes away, 22 miles. 

Customer Desires:
  • As many posts as possible - 4x4, 6x6, and 6x8
  • He emphasized desire for 10 - 12'x6"x8" if possible
  • Any non post will be 1x6
  • He wants nothing short of 8ft length
  • If a log would give one 12ft 6x8 or two 8ft 6x6, he preferes 12foot 6x8.

Some sample measurements ofa couple logs: 
  • 11" at large end/8" at small end 24ft. Also 8" at 19ft.
  • 10" at large end/6" at 19ft.
  • 9" at large end/6.5" at 12ft.

Below are some pics. The fresh cut pics are from a year ago. The others, I took Saturday.

Thank you. 

-Mike


(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51882/1208171647b.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1552919990)
 

(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51882/1208171647a.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1552919951)
 


(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51882/20190316_183550.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1552920238)
 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51882/20190316_183327.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1552920258)
 

(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51882/20190316_183233.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1552920646)
 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51882/20190316_184009.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1552920670)
 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51882/20190316_184028.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1552920699)
 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Southside on March 18, 2019, 11:06:55 AM
Did he mention having clean sides or is wane / defects OK? Being cedar it will have taper and surprises that come at all the wrong places. If he is OK with more of a potential rustic look to some of the posts your options are greater on posts. Not saying all will end up that way, but as long as he understands the nature of cedar is all. 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: WV Sawmiller on March 18, 2019, 11:29:39 AM
   Also remember not to split the pith or the posts will bow. So you will either get 1, 3 or 5 posts out of a log - never 2 or 4. 

    I assume you are charging by the hour or by the job. BTW - do you want to take bets that before the job is over he doesn't find an extra log or two he forgot or finally got around to cutting while you were sawing? That is normally the case. 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: doc henderson on March 18, 2019, 12:44:39 PM
you can plan ahead and even mark with crayon on the small ends.  I agree if rustic ok you might have a bark inclusion or rounded edge.  I would start with the biggest size post and biggest logs, they can always have an edge trimmed if they have to be "perfect".  It is almost nice to have them available to make sure you are meeting their expectations or have properly reduced their expectations.  As well if their expectations are high, they will have less final product.  would be nice to see a plan or an idea of the building or structure they are going to be used for.  Very cool!
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: terrifictimbersllc on March 18, 2019, 12:52:37 PM
All those 6x6 or 6x8 are going to have white sapwood at the edges.Find out if heís expecting to use these outdoors, thatís going to rot off more quickly for sure,
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Magicman on March 18, 2019, 01:09:59 PM
After all of the above questions are satisfactorily answered and a sawing contract is signed, I would saw the job, hourly rate.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: YellowHammer on March 18, 2019, 04:53:48 PM
From your description of the job, it will take much more time handling the logs than actually sawing.  For me, I would try to turn every log into a post of some kind, 4 cuts and done.  

If heís wanting you to custom buck every log to maximize yield, then take side wood, edge that to to 6 inches, then cut a post, and repeat 50 times, on a board foot rate, well, it will be a learning experience, thatís for sure.  I charge by the bdft when I am milling, but if a customer asks me to fire up my chainsaw for any appreciable time, I charge the same virtual hourly rate I would if I had been making sawdust with my mill.  The way I looked at it, why should I be running a chainsaw for free when it was keeping me from making money from sawing in the mill?  So bdft rate on the milling and hourly on the chainsaw and grunt work, or as others say, straight hourly.  

One of my most memorable, frustrating and kind of fun jobs I ever had was when I agreed sight unseen on a paying job where a guy was going to bring a ďfewĒ cedar logs to me, to mill for him.  All he wanted was a ďbunch of posts.Ē  So here he comes a few days layer with a big diesel truck, two full flatbed 30 foot hay hauler trailers hooked together in tandem, loaded to the gills with pencil sized cedar.  It looked like a freight train coming down the road.  Oh baby, what did I get myself into? Letís just say it was a learning experience for me, and among other things, and I learned real fast how to do my best imitation of the ďHurdle Mill BoogieĒ with my band mill.  

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pBYPYUAOEkI (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pBYPYUAOEkI)
 

Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Southside on March 18, 2019, 10:01:19 PM
Personally I prefer to saw by the BF for several reasons but cedar and quarter sawing is always hourly unless it's the one odd log in a job.  
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: AZ_builder on March 18, 2019, 10:45:34 PM
Holy crap!! That video reminds me of a fast food place cutting fries on a busy night!!
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on March 19, 2019, 08:12:53 AM
Thank you gents for all this helpful advice! I have sent him a note and await the response.

Woah... What if we put a nitros oxide system on my LT35, could I keep up with that sawmill in the video?  :D.

WVSawmiller, what did you mean by: "you will either get 1, 3 or 5 posts out of a log - never 2 or 4. "?
Were you speaking in jest?:) If not, I do not understand how this is?

Doc, I think you have a really good point about having the customer there and expectations. Unfortunately, he will not be there. If this goes forward, I will really work out those details and I will also put forward the point YellowHammer had of four cuts and done, as cost is an issue for him.

Doc, I am not sure selecting larger logs first is an option since I will have no log handling equipment on site other than the cant hook. I do not think he is going to want to pay for me to bring my Skidsteer out.

I prefer to do BF rather than hourly for my initial jobs if possible. Since he wants low budget and posts as a primary, and these logs are small, I am going to suggest what Yellow Hammer said as his best budget approach. Once we work out the acceptability of wane (defects) and the white sapwood/outer edge that terriffictimbers mentioned, this would probably be best for him.

If he goes this route, and he very well may, I will charge a board foot price while sawing, and an hourly rate while log handling.

BTW, Skidsteer is running again. My mechanic buddy diagnosed it in seconds over the Phone as moisture got into some contacts, perhaps computer or fuse box. I did not have time to mess with it, but a day later, when the sun and wind dried it all out well, started right up. Kind of sad that a piece of heavy equipment would be affected by the rain. Yesterday, I picked up a bunch of good used metal roofing (under 10 cents a sq ft) for our barn project. Hopefully in the next few months, I will have weather protection for my stuff.

-Mike
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: WV Sawmiller on March 19, 2019, 08:37:17 AM
   I was not joking. If the log is big enough you can center the pith say in a 4X4 and get two more from each side if an oval shaped log or 4 more (2 from each side and one above and one below the center one) if more perfectly round. Think of an oversized 6X12 or 12X12
                         
[ ][ ][ ]      

    [ ]
[  ][ ][ ]
    [ ]

Like this - sorry I'm not better at adding a drawing
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Banjo picker on March 19, 2019, 09:10:17 AM
In other words, it usually never turns out good to split a log right down the middle.  Your timbers will almost always twist or bow badly.  You might be tempted to do that with a log in the 12 inch or so range if you were cutting 4 x4 s.  You would be better served to cut something else out of that log, as all 4 timbers you cut would have a great chance of bowing.  Banjo
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Tom the Sawyer on March 19, 2019, 12:35:23 PM
"Unfortunately, he will not be there"

(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19572/red_flag.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1357579292)
 

With a preponderance of small logs, minimal experience, and no log moving equipment, the client not being there is a potential problem.  If the client were there at the beginning of day one, even for a short period of time, they could see what you are doing, and what the logs are likely to yield; it would go a long way towards both parties being satisfied at the end of the day.  After sawing a couple of posts from smaller logs, expectations may change, and certainly be more realistic.  
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on March 19, 2019, 01:39:22 PM
Thank you Tom. What do you think of cut one log, send photo of log and umber, get feedback before proceeding to next log? If not, I will only agree to do it on a day he can be there... assuming this still happens.  Thank you all very much for keeping me straight.

-Mike
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: WV Sawmiller on March 19, 2019, 02:22:52 PM
   I'm with Tom. Tell the customer you are concerned he will not like the results and can only do the job if he is there at least at the start to kick off the project. You can select a good representative sample of the various type of logs and saw them and show him and come to terms on his needs and expectations. I have often found my customers were more tolerant than I was. They knew what they were using the lumber for and if a little wane was okay and preferable to trimming and wasting lumber that was fine for their needs. 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: YellowHammer on March 19, 2019, 02:28:24 PM
 smiley_thumbsup smiley_thumbsup
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: alan gage on March 19, 2019, 06:55:25 PM
I will have no log handling equipment on site other than the cant hook. I do not think he is going to want to pay for me to bring my Skidsteer out......I will charge a board foot price while sawing, and an hourly rate while log handling.
Be careful that you don't end up giving away a bunch of free time. It seems like it might be cheaper to pay for a skid loader to be on-site rather than paying you to muscle logs around. It might be different if the logs were already cut to length and staged so you could just roll them up to the mill but you've got a lot of labor other than sawing. 

Alan
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on March 19, 2019, 10:59:06 PM
Thank you men! I will make it so he is on site initially, if we lean forward.

On another note, I was contacted by a gentleman and this appeared the most promising discussion I have had. He has some

Walnut, Black Locust, and hickory
Felled six months ago
12-13 feet long
16-18" on large end with maybe one 22"
Also has several stumps about 30 inches long, by 30 inches wide.
Wants it cut into cants, slabs, and some 2"+/- for future use.

He will be there and he ready to help.
Originally, he was going to sell the logs, but no one would pick them up and he did not have way to load/transport.


Questions:

How many days/hours would you guesstimate a job like this will take?

I have 4 degree blades that are sharp and all my 10 degree blades are dull.

Thoughts on hickory and black locust cut six months ago?

Also, since those stumps are so short, I don't think I will be able to use my toeboards and they have some significant diameter change. How would you level the pith on such a short log?

Any other wisdom thoughts?

-Mike
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51882/Logs.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1553050774)
 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51882/Logs_2.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1553050801)
 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Southside on March 19, 2019, 11:06:10 PM
Figure on 100 BF / hour of production if you have an off bearer at first and have decent logs in the size range you describe. As for the short logs you would have to fix up a jig to keep them in place so you can clamp them. You can probably rig up a wedge on the jig to deal with taper but I don't think it's worth it for something that short. 

Use your 4's under those conditions and have a good lube mixture in the tank as you will need it and may need to use more than normal. 

Otherwise saw away Mike, saw away.   :D
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: WV Sawmiller on March 19, 2019, 11:23:34 PM
   The 4's are correct IMHO for the hickory and will work fine for the others as well. The walnut and locust will be fine and the hickory should be okay - I cut some that had been down a couple years and still real solid.

  I'm fine with SL's swag of 100 bf/hr for a new sawyer. Won't hurt if things click and you finish sooner. The 30" wide stumps are going to slow you down. Why not have him cut them down with a chainsaw to about 24" X 30" before you get there? If not I'd bill that as hourly rate. I'm assuming those are walnut stumps he wants cut. Not sure why he'd be cutting hickory and locust stumps but I'd cut what he asks.

  I think the rails are 28" on the LT35 at the clamp. If so you may get by without the jig SL mentioned on the bottom but you will need them on the side away from the clamp and that is further going to eat up some of your width of cut. Check that first and throw a piece of firewood or so that long on at home as a test before you go to the customer site. yes, the toeboards are out for that short so I'd just use some 4/4 scraps as shims to adjust for diameter differences on those pieces. Good luck.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: WDH on March 20, 2019, 08:04:31 AM
I would not fool with the stumps.  Not worth it, and it is easy to tear up something on the mill. You can ask me how I know this :).  

Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: WV Sawmiller on March 20, 2019, 08:11:23 AM
Danny,

   If the stumps are walnut they may be good for gunstocks and such I'm thinking. I can't see the value of locust or hickory.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: YellowHammer on March 20, 2019, 08:13:55 AM
Sounds like a fun job.  Do the walnut last. :D  

When sawing shorts, safety is an issue both for personnel and for the mill, as people have said.  If they are too short, they may fall into the mill frame, and damage the hydraulic lines (been there, done that).  Also, off bearers have a tendency to get real close to things they shouldn't be on the mill, especially  when lifting boards off shorts, even stepping into and over the loader, into the mill frame, just places where flesh and bone shouldn't be.  So just be aware.  Its all fun until someone's finger gets smashed and explodes like a package of Ketchup.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: WDH on March 20, 2019, 08:17:09 AM
Howard,

Just starting out, an irregular, gritty, walnut stump can lead to some heartaches for the sawyer.  That is one of the more challenging things to cut with a sawmill. 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: doc henderson on March 20, 2019, 08:52:20 AM
Mike think of this as being a graduate student, getting paid while you get your education!!! :)
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Magicman on March 20, 2019, 09:08:52 AM
I absolutely recommend sawing the Walnut stumps.  That way you will know exactly why not to ever fool with sawing stumps.  Hourly rate including pressure washing plus blades.   :-X 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: WV Sawmiller on March 20, 2019, 10:06:55 AM
   I checked my mill this morning and the rails were about 25" apart at the clamp so the 30" stumps will fit across them. I suggested chainsawing them down because I don't know if you can Bibby them down that well with the mill. It could be done but you might have to make octagons and such while 2 straight cuts with the chainsaw would make it narrow enough to fit.

   I prefer to do a test cut at home on projects like this before I embarrass myself in front of a customer. I do enough of that anyway. At first I would use up some of my buckeye for experiments such as making fence rails or post or such. 

   There is definitely a market for 30" X 2'X 2" walnut pieces for craft workers. Even cookies that size will sell. People want them for end tables and such. I was looking at a walnut crotch about that size in my pile which is probably going to be my next project. I think I got it from a friend who was just cleaning the debris from when he had 3-4 big walnuts cut in his yard. 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: trapper on March 20, 2019, 10:18:42 AM
With only one sharp blade I would not attempt to start the job.  Woodmizer has free shipping on blades right now.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: burtle on March 20, 2019, 10:46:50 PM
On that first job you're going to be wore out moving 40 logs around by hand!! Even If they are small in diameter. That'll be heck of a workout all alone.


I'm wondering what the first guy is expecting on price. I'd charge no less than $100.00 per hour on that job. But that's just me.


You have two potential clients within what a week or two? That is a plus!!

Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on March 20, 2019, 11:27:27 PM
I read all the responses several times. Thank you all for the care,  warnings, wisdom by experience, and encouragement. Doc, I love that philosophy... a paid student says I!

Ok, 100 BF per hour is a good realistic number as I would rather under promise and opver deliver, vs stressing because I am miles off the mark. So, a 16" small end log x 13ft long is about a 145BF International, so I will figure about? 1.5 hours for said log, and hopefully do better. Do you think I should draw out a cut plan on the end of the log as I have seen in some videos? Or is that only for instruction and not for production ?

With all the sawing I have been doing here, I can already see the benefit of having helper who is getting the next log ready to roll onto the arms and offbearing. Of course, with the larger sized posts and any thicker slabs, I will have to help offload those larger ones. On a good note, larger poasts/cants, mean more board footage with less cuts. 

I have about 15 of the 4 degree blades and 15 of the 10 degree blades. Not one of each :) I am glad to hear the 4 degree blades are good. I did brake one yesterday. That is a violent event. 

WV Sawmiller, if we jig up a holder for the walnut stumps...  when you say have him sut the stump log to 24 x 30 do you mean to rip one side to make a 24" in the shape of a "D" or to cut both sides so it has two apposing flat sides?

Walnut last.... noted :)

If we cut a log into live edge slabs, do we sticker the log back together off the ground 8" and let it sit... making the scrap edge the rain/sun screen? I have seen pics of this, but do not know if this is a long term air drying solution or just a few weeks?

If he is going to air dry all the lumber out of doors and he wants some 8/4 and large cants to further rip down later, what do you tell a customer to have on hand for stacking? 8" blocks, plywood ripped into stickers, and sheet metal long enough to cover the wood? Since these logs have sat for six months, do I need to have some end covering solution to prevent splitting?

He is planning to stack the boards/cants where we saw it and let it set there until further notice.

Thank you all again, very much. 

Goodnight. 

-Mike




Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on March 21, 2019, 12:39:58 AM
I did have more questions Jedi Masters... 

How does a new guy know when his blade is dull? 

How does new guy know when his speed is not too fast, nor too slow.... but just right! Just like the porage in Goldie Locks.

Thank ye, says I! You men have been amazing! Thank you, thank you, thank you!

-Mike aka Grasshopper  :D
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Southside on March 21, 2019, 08:08:20 AM
Use the Force Mike, use the Force to tell. A band beginning to dull will take more force to enter and make a cut, you can see it when the band first enters the cut, it sort of stalls forward momentum for just a micro moment. Another way is to monitor the sawdust. A sharp band produces "chunky" sawdust that flows right out of the chute, one getting dull will make more of a flour sawdust and more will remain on the boards and it will tend to float in the air more by the chute and guide wheel. You want to see a nice, distinctive flow of sawdust exiting the band that is holding a pattern as it enters the sawdust chute right at the non moving guide wheel to know the band is sharp and speed is not too fast.  

Boards with lots of sawdust build up are a sign of too much speed and or a dull band that can't clear the dust away. 

Wavy boards, with the exception of twisted grain, are a sign of a quite dull band. 

If you see the band jump or dive upon entering or exiting a cut it's dull. 

Also the sound will change, listen to a sharp band so you commit to memory that pitch, when it is dull the sound changes, can't explain it any better than that but you will be able to hear it. 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: YellowHammer on March 21, 2019, 08:27:54 AM
 smiley_thumbsup smiley_thumbsup

Basically, as soon as the cut starts suffering, swap the band out, assuming it was cutting well when it was put on.

Closely watch the rooster tail of sawdust coming from the cut.  Think of it as a needle on a meter, if the trail of sawdust is perfectly straight, the band is cutting flat, if the trail is high or low, or twitches relative to the band, then the band isn't cutting flat and the sawdust and band aren't in the same plane.  

Jack your speed up until the engine loads up, use all your horsepower, as faster is better as it keeps the band cooler, it removes sawdust better and the way to tell real time while you are cutting the board that your speed is correct is to watch the sawdust.  It allows real time feedback while cutting, allowing speed corrections instantly.

Also, look at your Debarker cut as a reference line.  The band wavering high and low means waves.

Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: WDH on March 21, 2019, 08:45:04 AM
(Self Confession:  I tend to run my blades too long after they are dull.....).

(Note to Self:  Don't run the blade too long after it is dull.....).
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: WV Sawmiller on March 21, 2019, 08:46:34 AM
   Yes, the blade will tell you when it is tired/dull. Also if you see any sign of a blade out of set (lines about an inch apart the length of the board) I'd replace it.

  IMHO $100/hr may be a little high for your part of the country, mill size and experience level. Good luck in getting that. I remember member Brad used a guy to saw some big ash logs at that rate and I think he had an LT50 and Brad said was not pleased with the cost/return. The question I would ask is "Would I be satisfied paying this rate for this yield if I were the customer?" If you have more customers than you can handle a higher rate is warranted to help thin the crowd to a measurable amount.

  Good luck.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: doc henderson on March 21, 2019, 09:16:27 AM
So your adventure continues.  The blade you broke yesterday was a great experience.  you will always jump a bit, but when you start gritting you teeth just before it happens cause you know you should be changing a band, then you are getting it.  If it happens on the job, act like that is normal, and it is, cause we have all done it and learned from it.  If you are charging by the hour and you end up having a "cluster" you can tell the customer you did not charge him for two hours that were on you. Better than undercharging and everything going well and you are then under paid.  The consumer will note your honesty and willing to work with them and pass that on to his neighbor who is your potential next customer.  Talk to @Magicman (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=10011) about trying to get too much from a band.  May the Forest be with you! 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: doc henderson on March 21, 2019, 09:31:23 AM
there are videos on you tube for stacking, stickering and covering slabs. timbergreen simple solar cycle kiln, and you can have your customers watch it if they are stacking and stickering there own wood.  walnut should be shaded by a cover so you do not get bleaching by the sun, or in the case of maple, oxidation.  Some feel air dried walnut has better color.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on March 21, 2019, 09:58:19 AM
Very good. Thanks for that timbergreen Simple Solar. I watched them. I ahev seen several videos on stacking slabs, but I was not sure about the permanency of the stacks... meaning is this the final spot, or was this for so much time, then it needed to be...?

I will try to watch some more and read some more this evening. I need to sweat a little more and not come running to the Wizards every time an ORK presents himself :)

Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Southside on March 21, 2019, 10:37:53 AM
I agree that $100 / hour is too high, the customer will not get that in value, you may work that hard but as was pointed to in the example Brad mentioned it won't happen a second time.  Proper equipment and BF sawing fixes that issue.  I can easily justify over $100 / hour with decent wood and the 70, but if I put that number out there the phone won't ring, so instead I tell the customer to have a loader there to keep logs fed to the beast and have several pairs of hands to deal with the lumber that is coming off of the mill and I saw BF rate and earn more than the $100 / hour.  
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: WV Sawmiller on March 21, 2019, 11:20:59 AM
WV Sawmiller, if we jig up a holder for the walnut stumps...  when you say have him sut the stump log to 24 x 30 do you mean to rip one side to make a 24" in the shape of a "D" or to cut both sides so it has two apposing flat sides?

-Mike
Mike,

  Sorry, I should have answered this above but overlooked it. What I was suggesting was to have him take a slice off both sides basically leaving about a 24" wide cant 30" long. It would have bark on both sides like a real thick LE slab. The flat sides will make it easier to clamp - a huge factor and probably the biggest problem when cutting short pieces - and your blade guides can pass through. Note: If you are using a 2" thick piece against the side supports that will make your total width of cut 26" and you still won't be able to pass the blade through it. Keep that in mind when setting up.

  See if this shows what I am describing
[ 24"]     (        30"    )

   Good luck.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on March 21, 2019, 12:38:23 PM
My hourly rate is $65.

That makes sense to trim it down for easier clamping. May need to put down a simple table jig made up of a few 4/4 boards that bridge the log supports so an end does not fall into the sawmill frame. I have laid the matter and counsel before him and will saw at his discretion, but have stipulated that stumps will be hourly and all your counsels.

-Mike
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on March 21, 2019, 12:47:59 PM
Ok, I just called Woodmizer with the problem below. Turns out it is likely my drive belt not tightened properly. Very illogical to me. I don't see the correlation, but doubt not the advice, as he spoke with great authority and confidence. The blade dove in this knotty nasty pine. So, I slowy backed up and thinking I was just going too fast, I slowly proceeded, but a few feet later... repeat dive. When reversing sloooowly, blade popped off wheels. SO wife called me in camper for eats. About to drink a cup o joe and head back out, and fix.
 When I can take the log from the board, it will be time for me to leave... grasshopper. :)


(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51882/2019-03-21_11_33_46.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1553186532)
 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Ben Cut-wright on March 21, 2019, 01:01:17 PM
"How much to charge".  The dilemma is, you would LIKE to make a profit, and you NEED to recoup some investment and labor.  But, you MUST provide a service level comparative to your charges.  You can't come off as a novice if you are going to charge like a pro, yet you must expect to make some mistakes and can't produce like a more experienced sawyer.  There will be more included in your dilemma, but no use peering into a crystal ball any further. Knowing these will need to be overcome is halfway to resolving them.

Charging by the hour dictates you are skilled, not in-training.  Charging by your output might not get you as much cash right away and could even be a precedent that you wish you had never begun.  Jumping so quickly into a paying job, with all the restrictions and expectations that demands, is gonna be fraught with risks.  Heck, experienced owner/operators have to contend with unforeseen risks. 

A quality product that shows you know what you are doing shouldn't come with a bottom-feeder price tag.  What you are 'striving to accomplish' should always be the sales pitch, not how much the client must pay.  Best way to get what the customer wants the most from the raw material,  then make every effort to achieve that goal.  "What you can do for the client" pays more than how much he must fork-over. 

(FREE advice for what it's worth.   Don't have an audience for as long as you can keep folks away. Make your mistakes and learn from them while you are gaining experience and skill.  Never be content that good enough is good enough.  BE SAFE.)

You have a saw mill, you have a client who wants his logs made into usable materials.   The other unknown factors will come with experience.  I wish you good luck and hope you become a profitable sawyer. But mostly I hope you enjoy learning to make good lumber.  
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Southside on March 21, 2019, 02:04:08 PM
Young Jedi, never catch a falling knife and never back a turning band out of a cut. 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: WV Sawmiller on March 21, 2019, 04:05:32 PM
My hourly rate is $65.

That makes sense to trim it down for easier clamping. May need to put down a simple table jig made up of a few 4/4 boards that bridge the log supports so an end does not fall into the sawmill frame. I have laid the matter and counsel before him and will saw at his discretion, but have stipulated that stumps will be hourly and all your counsels.
-Mike
    You should not need the jig on the bottom to keep the log/cant from falling between the rails if the "logs/stumps/long firewood pieces" are 30" as originally mentioned as the bed rails on your mill are about 26" on center at the clamp. You will need a long piece on the side to brace between the log and the side supports to brace against. You can probably get by with a piece of scrap 4/4 but I prefer 8/4 so I can clamp tighter. You probably only need such a board on the side support and not on the clamp side. Once you cut the round off you can probably flip it over and brace better with the cut surface down. Remember those short pieces like to jump out of the clamp as they are only clamped/braced at one point. When they do jump out real bad things happen to the fast moving blade and the wood does not fare too well either. 

Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: terrifictimbersllc on March 21, 2019, 04:37:45 PM
Mike think of this as being a graduate student, getting paid while you get your education!!! :)
A way you can get a Ph.D. by kicking yourself in the behind.  Like chainsaw milling.  :) :) :)
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: terrifictimbersllc on March 21, 2019, 04:40:50 PM
How does a new guy know when his blade is dull? 
Put on a new one once in a while.  See what the difference is. 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on March 21, 2019, 09:57:08 PM
Will...  I have the walnut, locust, and hickory job. 4, 5, and 6 April. 

At this point, we have agreed to $.45 a board foot and $65 hour for any stumps. If things don't go very well, I will make it right... even if I have to do it for free. I hope that is not the case.

I am glad I have a little time to think, study, prep, plan, and rehearse. 

I will cut a stump here before I do it there. This way I can take plenty of time to think it through and fiddle. 

Jedi master... what should grasshopper do if he may not run with scissors or backup a running saw in the log?

Well said Ben! I am trying to keep the proper perspective as I take the bluntness off my sword.

WV, thanks for that clarification. I thought a 26" spread and a 30" log was a close shave for me not to end in drama. Since I am going to cut a short log/stump here, I will be ready for what may be. I really do not like the idea of one clamp point; so, the idea of a backer board to spread the load to other stops sounds good. 

Thank you men!

-Mike
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: WV Sawmiller on March 21, 2019, 10:33:47 PM
   On the blade back up be sure to keep a couple of wedges and drive them in to widen the cut before you start to back the blade up. I take along a short handled felling ax and a couple of plastic felling wedges (although you can make your own wood ones) and just be matter of fact about it and the customer assumes it is a normal occurrence. More experienced sawyers than me have even been known to take a broken piece of a blade with a custom built handle they use to remove the sawdust before they try to back the blade out. 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Southside on March 21, 2019, 10:43:47 PM
a couple of plastic felling wedges (although you can make your own wood ones


I am pretty sure he has already perfected that move.  :D

@Magicman (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=10011) has a great photo of the sawdust cleaner that WV speaks of here, maybe he can post a photo of it for reference.  
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: YellowHammer on March 22, 2019, 01:29:14 AM
The main drive belt being tight is critical to good sawing.  Basically as the band loads up in the cut, the main drive starts slipping and the the effective cutting operating speed of the bands decreases.  Since rarely will the operator notice that the band has slowed down, the forward feed rate, although constant from the operators point of view, just decreases relative to the band speed.  So band speed vs feed rate isnít optimized and the band is being ďjammedĒ into the wood and will cut waves.  I would highly recommend getting a band tension measuring tool from WM and adjust it accordingly on a regular basis.  

If you harness the full power of the dark side, you can back a band out of a cut while engaged, but it must be done by hand, very slowly.  It takes some technique.  Basically the problem is that sawdust has spilled behind the band in the kerf, so if the power feed is used to back out, the sawdust piles up behind the band and becomes an immovable object.  The band will always dismount.  If the head is pulled back by hand very slowly, and with touch, the back of the spinning band will clean the sawdust out of the kerf.  Might not want to try to it at this stage of the game, itís like grabbing a croc by the tail, you got to know how to stay out of harmís way.  

I do keep a couple wedges and a piece of sawblade with a duct tape handle nearby just for emergencies.  

Another good move to perfect is the ďNudgeĒ which basically means dropping the backstops and using the two plane clamp to slide the log or cant sideways in order to get more clearance to finish the cut, all with the band still turning.  Kind of sporty move, but invaluable.    

Another tip is to never open the blade guide up all the way, leave it about 1 inch from max as a safety reserve.  Then when you need an extra inch, you have it.  

As they mentioned, milling in front of an audience is inviting concentration and oops issues.

WM mounts a mud flap over the debarker to stop chips from hitting people




 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: burtle on March 22, 2019, 01:55:08 AM
Awesome on landing the job!

Please take some pictures and post them when you get done!

Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: WDH on March 22, 2019, 08:12:11 AM
If you saw the stump, and if the stump is not pressure washed very thoroughly, you will rue the day stump.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Magicman on March 22, 2019, 08:54:35 AM
Magicman has a great photo of the sawdust cleaner that WV speaks of here, maybe he can post a photo of it for reference.
I NEVER attempt to back up with the blade engaged.  Popping a blade off even when not engaged can damage the teeth.  I wedge the cant/board up and clean the sawdust out with this before backing out of a cut:

(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/IMG_0268.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1457716088)
 
 A cut off section of a broken blade...

(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/IMG_5778.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1552350541)
 
with a dipped handle.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: YellowHammer on March 22, 2019, 09:07:07 AM
I NEVER attempt to back up with the blade engaged.  Popping a blade off even when not engaged can damage the teeth.
Yes it will. :D

But it doesnít happen too often, just enough to remind me not to hang it in the first place.

When I had my manual mill, I routinely fed the band manually backward in the kerf to prepare for the next cut.  So the same technique applies, slow backward with hand pressure, band tension tightened, and if it goes bad it isnít fun and it makes the situation worse.  If it goes good, problem solved in a matter of a few seconds instead of minutes. Just me. I can safely pull the head backward by hand by using the 3 foot long dragback arm as a handle, so I am a long way from the head.  If backing up with the power feed, the band will come off every time.  
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: WV Sawmiller on March 22, 2019, 09:16:49 AM
   BTW - are the stumps cut above or below ground level? I am mostly thinking of ones cut right at ground level and Danny and company may be talking about dug up stumps covered in mud, sand and rocks. It definitely will make a difference.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Magicman on March 22, 2019, 09:33:03 AM
My Reply #203 was directed toward "dug up" stumps.  :-X
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: doc henderson on March 22, 2019, 09:36:47 AM
Mike, you will do as well, if not better, than anyone else on the forum did when they were new.  go for it!

Master Po: If a man dwells on the past, then he robs the present. But if a man ignores the past, he may rob the future. The seeds of our destiny are nurtured by the roots of our past.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on March 22, 2019, 11:35:54 AM
Yes SSL Jedi Master, I have learned well the making of wedges. They are 12ft long.

Turn out I was mistaken. I did not break a blade a couple days ago, I made a sawdust removing tool.

Seriously, I will make a sawdust remover and wood some wedges. 

TT, I think I just need the miles. Like you said, I will see the difference as I change blades. I will also pay attention to the sawdust size/flow out the shoot to gain visual clues.

Excellent. Thank you MM for the sawblade mod pics.

Now I get it YH. That indeed makes sense. Unfortunatley, 

I purchased the belt tension tool and thought I tightened it correctly a few weeks ago, but to be honest, it did seem loose to me. I may have failed to do it properly. Will go back and reread and fix before sawing more. 

Had to take yesterday afternoon off for getting cleared land ready for grass seed. Today, mostly helping son to get office shed in the dry. 

Not sure I understand the nudge, or if I should be engaged in such advanced kung-fu at this point. 

Burtle, I will try to rig up a camera before the job for critique. I will definately plan to take pics. 

WDH, that is a really important point, as I had no idea. Why is a stump ruined if not pressure washed?

WV, as I understand it, the tree company, cut the logs a few feet up, then went back and cut the stumps also. Not sure of level, but I can ask, if this has a bearing on my procedures.

Doc, I want that pebble from your hand. Thank you. Confidnce is certainly an issue. I will probably have as much time preparing for the job as doing it, but that is good. I hope to get to where I am sawing mostly at my property, but this is part of my school... and who knows were it will all lead.  BTW, I thought you were introducing Kung Fu Panda into the dialogue :) But my daughter corrected me. I watched a few episodes of KungFu with her this last year for her to get a taste of the Hollywood of my youth. 

I have some questions I am putting together, but I have to get back to work with my son. 

-Mike
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: WV Sawmiller on March 22, 2019, 11:48:33 AM
Grasshopper,

   It will make a huge difference in the life of your blade. If cut at ground level or above there will be little difference between cutting the stump and any other log. If below ground you may not finish a single cut before dulling the blade. I'd shy away from the below ground sawing if possible and be sure to include blade replacement if you do get caught up in sawing them - treat them the same as sawing into metal in a normal log. 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: doc henderson on March 22, 2019, 12:26:24 PM
Yes grasshopper, you had already blended "kung fu" and "star wars", kind of a mind meld thing...like star trek?  My fav. junior high school joke.  What do the USS enterprise and a roll of toilet paper have in common?  ...they both circle Uranus in search of Klingons!  Your daughter may not be ready for that one.  hahaha.   :D
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Southside on March 22, 2019, 01:29:28 PM
Not sure I understand the nudge, or if I should be engaged in such advanced kung-fu at this point.


Nudge you not can do...uh hummm..(in my best Yoda voice).  Not at this time anyway, you will need to incorporate the power of the "Schwartz" (Mel Brooks / Space Balls voice) or as many know it the "Hydraulics anywhere mod" before you are able to perform such an act of log levitation with your mill.  
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Southside on March 22, 2019, 01:33:38 PM
WV, as I understand it, the tree company, cut the logs a few feet up, then went back and cut the stumps also. Not sure of level, but I can ask, if this has a bearing on my procedures.


You want to check those with a metal detector for sure!!   Walnut are fence and metal magnets for some strange reason and if you have a series of them cut off with high stumps then the first thing I think of is a fence row - one that the tree service could see or knew was there so they went above it to fell the tree then flush cut at ground level before grinding the stump out.  

Went and looked at some cedar the other day and there is was - several courses of barbed wire run into each and every one of those trees heading right down the driveway, really a shame when folks do that. 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: doc henderson on March 22, 2019, 01:54:49 PM
you might start packing a duffel or toolbox with all the little things you will need.  i think @Magicman (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=10011) had spoke of a travel tool box. maybe start a list and get packing.  "I think were going to need a bigger boat"  Jaws.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Jim_Rogers on March 22, 2019, 02:53:16 PM
One way to tell if the blade is dull is by looking at the cut right after it enters the log.
If the blade is dull, it will sometime ride up, which I believe is called "blade push off"
You can see it here:


(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10095/20190320_121623.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1553280731)
 

When you see this or find this using a straight edge you should stop sawing and change the blade.

Jim Rogers
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: WDH on March 22, 2019, 08:23:34 PM
I was referring to stumps dug out of the ground with the root ball. 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: WV Sawmiller on March 22, 2019, 09:00:37 PM
   Yes, I felt there was a disruption in the force causing possible confusion and disharmony. Let us all join our collective auras for a favorable disposition such that young grasshopper comes into contact with no metal or undesirable elements from the earth adhering to the logs assigned for our young master.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: WDH on March 23, 2019, 07:26:41 AM
Exactly, and he has to get the dirt off them too :D. 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: YellowHammer on March 23, 2019, 07:34:21 AM
Yeah, what he said. :D :D
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on March 23, 2019, 09:33:35 AM
Ok, I see where I was confused. I never in my life thought that men cut subsurface part of stumps.. this smells of Orks, goblins, and worse things in middle earth. I will stay in the shire, above ground. :) Doc, this is my favorite work of fiction and movie - LOTR. 

Now I am learning another interpretation. I did not understand why a tree felling company would seperate the last few feet from the top...fencing wire concerns. Very good. I have let owner know about fee for metal strikes and I will frther inform him it may be why the tree co cut stumps seperate to go above and below. 

I have added a metal detector to my purchase list for this week as I come up with a portable tool kit. I will be postiing it here for critique.

If Magicman has a list already posted, I will search for it. 

Jim Rodgers, thank you for that. I like that.Straight edge test at the beginning of a cut.

 I think it will help me to SLOW down when I get back to sawing this week. Stopped to help son and to grade much of yard for grass seed sowing.  I have been trying to do so much, but I think quality is not getting focused on enough, so I will endeavor to be a machinist in my sawing for at least a few days, to really tighten up my decisions and understanding. I really want to do a good job for this man who is trusting me to extract his valuable lumber fromt hos logs. 

-Mike
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: WV Sawmiller on March 23, 2019, 10:11:03 AM
Grasshopper,

  Be warned about use of the metal detector - I suggest you use it only for your wood and not for the customer. Or you can loan it to the customer. If you scan for metal and fail to find it then damage a blade it is now your responsibility, if the customer scanned and missed it is now his responsibility. Why would you take on the unnecessary risk? I leave that risk squarely with the customer.

  As to cutting the stumps high it may have been because they knew or thought there was an old fence but that is also common practice to leave them high so they have plenty of wood to push against with a bulldozer. If they did bulldoze up the stumps that would be when they could cut off part of the below ground part. I was assuming cut off at the ground level while my compadres were addressing dug up/pushed up stumps cut below ground level which are evil demons from another dimension (although they may be in great favor if walnut for gunstock material).
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: doc henderson on March 23, 2019, 10:21:21 AM
Mike, Treebeard says hello.  I have made pens from root wood.  interesting grain.  metal detector will not pick up rocks or glass.  You could scan but tell the customer they are still responsible as the process is not perfect.  IMHO.  I never watched all of LOTR.  I should put that on my list.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Jim_Rogers on March 23, 2019, 11:08:00 AM
If I scan a customer's log and don't find a nail and hit it he still pays for the blade. And usually my time to scan it.
No guarantees ever. And no transfer of responsibility.
And I let them know that up front.

If he uses my metal detector and finds and pulls a nail I don't charge him for using my metal detector or nail pulling tools.

Jim Rogers
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Southside on March 23, 2019, 11:36:39 AM
I do the same thing Jim, basically I tell them I am trying to reduce the potential of an issue but can't guarantee the results. With oak if I see blue stain I will tell them there is a good chance that it has metal and let them decide if they want to take the risk, then scan for sure. Works many times, but not all. 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: YellowHammer on March 23, 2019, 02:29:53 PM
Iíve had people suggest that since I scanned their log with my metal detector, it was my fault if I hit a nail and they shouldnít have to pay for the band. Wrong.  So I donít use a detector. 

When logs are suspicious I always mill the butt logs last so I can get through the job pretty streamlined without dealing with metal randomly. 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: WV Sawmiller on March 23, 2019, 02:40:56 PM
   I'm with YH. (Did I really just say that? :D) Avoid the controversy and just tell the customer plain and simple "The customer is responsible if there is metal or other foreign objects in the wood and will be assessed a band charge accordingly."
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on March 23, 2019, 03:08:41 PM
Question, when you get a beep, or the customer does, is the procedure for the owner of log to trim it if on end, or decide to risk it?
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Magicman on March 23, 2019, 03:45:34 PM
I have three metal detectors but I do not use them.  They are for the customer's use if he chooses to.  My time is spent sawing not scanning.  Metal strike blades are $25 each.

I have two chainsaws and any bucking or trimming is done by me, not the customer.  I saw my "nose" in the dirt too many times to allow it now.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: terrifictimbersllc on March 23, 2019, 08:20:04 PM
I think it was the Arkenstone I hit at Brunoís last fall
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on March 25, 2019, 04:55:48 PM
Hope everyone's weekend went well. What do you gents communicate with your customer so they are ready for sawing day?

Things that come to my mind:
  • Sawing Hours (10): arrive 630am (sunrise is 645), lunch noon for 30 min, stop sawing at 5PM to perform maintenance and refit for following day.
  • Since he is leaving the lumber where we saw it, I thought it might be wise to prepare him to sticker and stack as he off bears the lumber. 
  • Advise him to get 3/4" sheets of ply and cut them to 3/4 width. 
  • Advise how to calculate how many, so he is ready. I figured approx 250 stickers (2.5 sheets of plywood) for a 3ft wide, 4ft tall, 12ft long stack of lumber if cut to 1" thick and 150 stckers if 2" lumber.
  • Advise to make sufficient length, level, elevated platforms for the stacks with supports every 16" for stacking the lumber on.
  • Advise how to air dry so they can get it done asap.
  • Do I need to get a 5 gallon bucket of anchorseal since logs have set for 6 months?\

He is 1:20 minutes away (70 miles). I plan to leave the machine there, unless it looks shady. Do you get a place locally or do you drive home when at that distance?

He already knows he will be off bearing, rolling logs onto loading arms. I will aid him with any heavy slabs. 

Thank you. -Mike


 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: terrifictimbersllc on March 25, 2019, 05:37:49 PM
Establish your own ways of doing business, for sure, but this is what I do, which is what you asked.

Make sure logs are ready. Unless you visit to make sure, I don't, you can only carry this to a certain point.  I charge hourly and emphasize the things that will make the job do-able, and save the customer time ($$).

I have a standard starting time of 7:30 am.  If the customer asks about how long we work, most don't, I tell them we'll play it by ear.  In the end if we can get it done in a heroic day that's what we do, especially if at a distance.  Otherwise we may split it into two more reasonable days.  I would ask the customer if he wanted to start at 6:45 am, not tell him. That's a bit early and there may be issues with noise that early. Just saying.

Other things I make sure to emphasize in advance is how many helpers are needed and whether a machine is needed.  How heavy are the boards you'll be making and whether you want to be helping carry them or not.  Some customers have no idea, they will want to make 200-400 pound boards and when you cut the first one, you are wondering where his machine and helpers are, and he is doing his learnings.  Well, not if you covered this in advance. I've arrived to a stack of huge logs and a 75 year old workaholic come out of the house, talking about moving things with a come-along.   :o :o :o  And realizing that it's just the two of us for the day.

Yes advise on air drying in advance.  I wouldn't get into stickering and anchor sealing the customer's lumber. Have them order Anchorseal themselves and trim and end coat the logs before you arrive.  Or if you visit in advance sell them some of it then.  

I strongly dislike the prospect of customer stickering wood as we saw, or helping him do that.  It takes much longer unless he's set up the platforms already within a few feet of the mill.  Sometimes the customer wants to carry boards across the yard one at a time while we saw.  Yikes.  Give me a sedative.  If I pick up on that in advance I tell him that it is best to saw all the wood then dead stack it right next to the mill.  It needs to be sorted by length at least.  Stacking lumber should be a careful thoughtful process. And customers almost never know how to arrange a proper platform without instruction. The last thing I want to hear is "pallets".    I send them an article on air drying wood in advance,  and tell them it is best to do the stacking afterwards, on their own time, with a helper. Not during the sawing day.

For sticker material I recommend telling them to buy furring strips- these are 8' 1x3's at home depot). Sometimes people find 8' 1x2's those are great as is.  If they have 1x3's on hand rip them down the center on the mill 6 at a time for them at the end of the job.  Or cut wet stickers if sticker stain doesnt matter.  I don't know about using plywood.  Sounds expensive.

If his logs aren't anchorsealed in advance I wouldn't do this right before you saw.  It will be a wet waxy mess. Tell him to trim the ends of the lumber as he stacks.  Or you trim the ends before you saw, and tell him to get it end coated within the next day.

At 70 miles, job the next day after a long day,  I find a motel.  Leaving the mill is usually fine if at customer property or out of sight.  You have to judge this.  If you work a long day and start early it would take an enterprising thief to bother it overnight.  I don't worry about this.  I do take my fuel container with me and pick up all my hand tools.  If leaving dull blades, spare tire I chain these to the mill.  At the motel I lock my truck boxes and put some tools in the cab sometimes.  Never have had a problem.  

Again you need to establish the way you work.  Be patient and take it a job at a time. For the most part, things go great. 


Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: WV Sawmiller on March 25, 2019, 07:22:17 PM
    TT is spot on with his comments. 

   As to the 70 miles that is up to you. If you have to drive 45 minutes from the sawing site to a hotel, as is common in places I saw, you might as well go home. You need to work that out in advance as well as who is paying for the hotel.

    As to security that should be addressed very early. Is the mill behind a locked gate or in sight of his house or otherwise secured? I lock my mill and try to leave a log on the mill to inconvenience any thieves. I also take the fuel tank with me and stop and get it filled before I return the next day. Same with the lube tank. I take all hand tools with me every day as well as all bands. I never leave a band on the mill except when I am there and fixing to use it. 

   I take a cooler with a sandwich and piece of fruit with plenty of water and gatorade. I eat light when sawing or I will have to stop and hunt a  bushy spot - which is sometimes not readily available. I always take TP and a shovel in case I need to dig a cathole. 

   I am almost anal about describing how the logs should be staged and that is my number one expectation from a customer. He should know that everything should be set up so you can commence sawing within 10-15 minutes of your arrival. Let him know if he wants to sticker as he stacks to bring extra help so he does not slow you down. I describe dunnage and stickers and it is up to him to provide unless he wants you to cut them as the first things off the saw and I have had customers have me do that.

   I'd tell him end sealing the logs or lumber is up to him. You can offer to sell him some anchorseal if you like. The last I bought was about $25/gallon my cost for 5 gallons delivered here. If the logs have set 6 months I doubt sealing is going to help much unless you are cutting a cookie off the ends to get to fresh wood. If you are he should be paying for your time and materials for that too. 

   By all means tell him a start and lunch time and he needs to be there ready to work then. If I tell him 7:30 I'm probably going to be there at 7:00-7:15. Prepping and cleaning the mill is done done on my time when sawing by the BF. If not you need to let him know when the clock starts for charges. Lunch is usually around mid day and based around completion of sawing a log or such. I tell them I plan to saw as long as there is light to saw unless other arrangements are made. I stop when I'm done or when there is barely enough light for me to clean, cover and secure the mill for the night. 

   Before I ever start sawing I do a safety brief with everyone who will be working around the mill and I warn them about the high risk areas and I stop sawing immediately if someone steps into one of them. I discuss log and board handling safety, debarker direction and show them the sawdust chute and advise "if" a blade breaks that is likely were it will come out. I also tell them not to touch a board until all sawing is finished and I am on my way back to the front of the mill. I shut off the blade at the end of each cut.

   As TT says, each job is different and you need to be flexible as each job. customer and conditions will be different. I hate to say no but I don't want to be taken advantage of either. Generally at the end of the day my customers tell me how much they enjoyed the process. That is what I want. Good luck.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: YellowHammer on March 25, 2019, 10:04:44 PM
These are great tips from experienced pros, I am impressed with the detail obviously learned from sweat and experience.

When I work with customers (more and more rare) at our place, the one thing they mostly have in common is how excited they are in the morning and how fast they burn out of energy and start dragging.  :D :D 

So my advice is just run the saw, have fun, and be aware of everything.  Try to make it fun, safe and productive for both you and the customer.     
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on March 26, 2019, 09:06:18 AM
Thanks very much for all the experience and details Terriffic Timbers and WV Sawmiller. This was exactly what I was trying to discern through. Excellent!

The 75 year old workaholic with a come-a-long for log handling had me in tears.  
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: btulloh on March 26, 2019, 09:09:23 AM
What's the date for this job?  The anticipation is killin' me.  :)
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on March 26, 2019, 09:38:17 AM
WV when you said saw dunnage, did you mean wood for stacking platforms? 

I have read of a bunch of different air drying techniques, do you have a particular article you pass on to the customer?  Currently, the concurrent points appear to be: 
1. Off ground 
2. Level
3. Stack by even length.
3. 3/4"-1" air gap between layers
4. Cover from direct sun/rain
5. Use weight or straps to resist twisting/cupping during the drying cycle. 

Other ideas that I do not know how to evaluate:
1. Have stack off ground at least 4" in one article to 18"in popular woodworking's article.
2. For cover, I see in one case where a live edge slab log is just reassembled with stickers and left to dry with no cover other than the scrap bark that was cut off initially.
3. Stack in open area where wind/sun can get to it. 
4. Double sticker or wide sticker the ends of the stacks to slow down drying in those locations. 

I want to give my customer good advice, but I don't want to spend his resources -time and money.

If you would share a link to what you send your customers, It would be much appreciated. Or do you share the basics and tell them to look at their wood usage area and search online for the practice that best meets their use/industry - eg fine woodworking vs rough carpentry. 

Btulloh, 4-6 April, weather permitting. While, I would like to be doing it today in one sense, I am very glad I have a week. I am using this time to get my act together with a mission focus. 

-Mike

Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: btulloh on March 26, 2019, 09:52:02 AM
Btulloh, 4-6 April, weather permitting. While, I would like to be doing it today in one sense, I am very glad I have a week. I am using this time to get my act together with a mission focus. 


Roger that.  You're getting a lot of good advice.  I think you'll do fine.  I'm looking forward to hearing of your success.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: WV Sawmiller on March 26, 2019, 02:53:34 PM
   Yes, when I say dunnage I mean the wood to stack on so they can get forks underneath them. Sometimes if the customer is wanting 2X4s cut he just has me cut some of them first and uses them to stack on. Yes, you want the lumber off the ground 6-12 inches is much better than 4". Sticker close to each end to reduce checking. I don't double sticker but would not hurt. I stack on 2' centers or closer. Many people stack on 16-18 inch centers. All stickers should be aligned directly over each other. Out of direct sunlight to reduce fading and too rapid drying/checking but with good air flow is better.

   The best circumstances would be under an open sided shed with good air flow and such that no rain can blow in, a foot or so off the ground on a level concrete pad and stickered every 16" with dry stickers and stacks on stacks and weight on the top stack. You probably aren't going to have that so do the best you can under the customer's circumstances.

   The tops should be covered from the rain but be sure the air can flow through. Be sure the customer does not completely cover his stack with a tarp stopping the air flow or it will rot and mold and do so pretty quickly. I never stack over 4' wide and prefer 3' or less. Be sure your stacks are not wider than your customer's forks/pallets/skids or he will have trouble moving the stacks.  I like weight on top. I do not strap them but after having to re-stack my last pallet of basswood 2 days ago I will likely strap temporarily before moving again. Stacks on stacks is good for weight where possible and can be done safely. I try to stack all stacks the same thickness and length. In addition to easier and more consistent drying it is a lot easier to tally the amount of lumber you cut and for the customer to see how much he has on hand. Level is better but the main thing is straight. I tell customers if they stack with a hump or dip in a stack every board will dry with that same hump or dip. 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: terrifictimbersllc on March 26, 2019, 05:01:15 PM
Be sure the customer does not completely cover his stack with a tarp stopping the air flow or it will rot and mold and do so pretty quickly.
Tell a customer you don't even want to hear the word "tarp".   Maybe as a ground cover. 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on March 28, 2019, 09:54:22 AM
WV Sawmiller and TerrifficTimbersLLC, thank you kindly for shedding some light. I was thinking in the right direction mostly, but it is most helpful to get some clarification to bring everything into focus. 


Here are a couple of outstanding questions in my head:


Thank you. 

-Mike


Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: YellowHammer on March 28, 2019, 01:21:14 PM
I don't saw portable but I consider anything over 1/8" thick or thin an issue that need to be addressed.  If its a stress problem, I miss sawed it, and I will be more aware.  Proper sawing technique will help, but not always, alleviate this.  

If thick and thins are an alignment issue due to a crash, it need to be remedied.

Must have parts Woodmizer part for me, (not including other generic parts like wrenches, blades, diesel spray, etc) always in my cabinet are new B57's in case a broken blade cuts one.  A set of blade guide rollers, because if you ever notch one, it will tear up every band you put on it.  Easy field fix if you have them in hand.  Set of heavy duty cutters to cut a broken band out.  Wedges and hammers.  I've had to replace enough hydraulic pump relays to have a spare on hand, always.

Blade guide alignment tool.

Basically any tool needed to do a quick on site alignment check if something bad happens.

There are LOTS of spare parts needed to keep a mill running, but most everything else would be a bring it home fix.





Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: GAB on March 28, 2019, 02:33:00 PM
WV Sawmiller and TerrifficTimbersLLC, thank you kindly for shedding some light. I was thinking in the right direction mostly, but it is most helpful to get some clarification to bring everything into focus.


Here are a couple of outstanding questions in my head:

  • When you men are sawing a log into lumber, what do you consider good for tolerances? +/- what fraction of an inch?
  • For you Woodmizer folks, what are MUST have spare parts to go portable, even if you just changed everything?
  • The first time I used my mill was at my friends house and when the board had a bow lifting it off the deck, he had me push down on it when clamping to get a straight board. I have had some fat and skinny bellied boards when sawing by myself. How do you handle this?

Thank you.

-Mike
Mike:
I'm not familiar with the LT35 so the following may or may not apply to your mill, mine is an LT40.
I'd order some spare fuses as I have had to replace some.
On mine the adjustable blade guide arm had a spring pin that holds the gear in position that drives the arm in and out.  I have replaced that small spring pin more than once.  The last time I replaced the gear for the one with two set screws.
I'd recommend not trying to align a log by moving/sliding it once it is on the loader arms with a peavey or other equipment.  I did and I broke the hydraulic line flow limiter and it shut me down for a week.  I have since modified my mill to avoid any further similar occurence of this failure.
I have a tool box that has mill alignment tools, spare parts and when I go mobile the box comes along.  Hope not to need it and also hope that if I need it what I need is in it.
If you have a lubemizer system, like I do, carry some 2 and 4 amp blade style fuses for it.
Gerald
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: terrifictimbersllc on March 28, 2019, 03:37:15 PM
Some of the precautions depend on how far from home you will be going, how bad it would be if you just have to pack up and go home.  Also when your mill is new you don't need spare wear items right away, but you might want things you can break.

What was said above, and i also carry

-spare hydraulic hoses (had to use one yesterday), one of each kind on the mill, 1/4 & 3/8 male-male JIC fittings to pull a new hose connected to an old one
-velocity fuses for loader cylinders
-one of every belt except the drive belt
-battery terminals
-bolts/nuts that hold on your jacks, isn't hard to shear one off and the bolts all break, also assortment of other nuts, washers & smaller bolts. Spare of all the bolts that hold your guide roller assembly on, the vertical ones may break when something is thrown off the blade
-spare master link for roller chain and the in/out blade guide chain
-glow plug fuse if diesel, and any engine fuses otherwise
-light bulbs if your mill uses them
-switches including the feed and up down drum switches
-spare tire
-extra fittings both hose side and tank side that are on your gas tank
-lubemizer tubing , the 1/4" od stuff, isn't hard to rip it in two
-digital volt meter with probes and clamp on leads, light & heavy gauge jumper wires (alligator clips on either end) for diagnosing, electrical kit with ring,  M & F spade terminals, butt connectors, torch, flux, solder also very handy
-hydraulic oil & clean funnel for it
-grease gun & extra grease tube
-extra track connectors if you have a cat track

Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: WV Sawmiller on March 28, 2019, 05:26:59 PM
   Good suggestions on the spares. I mostly just take the spare belts and tools to replace them. I take a pretty good set of hand tools. One of the most important tools is the WM phone number -if you have cell service at the site that can be a life saver. I take my maintenance manual, cell phone and phone numbers to every job. Take plenty of business cards and give them to every busybody who stops by. I put a 1/4" international log rule on the back of mine and I and the customers find that handy. I keep a tow cable and chain in my truck and have been known to drag a log or two although I don't advertise that. I have taken snatch blocks and long cables and loaned them to good customers and showed them how to drag a log or two down or back they thought was lost. I let them use their vehicles and such for that. I take a leaf blower to clean the mill while sawing as needed and sometimes to help clean up the site at the end of the day - extra service for good customers. I take a chain saw and related tools, fuel and bar oil. I take a small calculator as well as my laptop to do the math. Good luck.

Edit/Add-on: Oh yeah, on the thick and thin from stress the normal practice when you see that is to flip the cant, cut a trim cut, resume sawing. If you get more stress flip and repeat. There are many threads and probably some good videos on this issue out there you might want to review.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: YellowHammer on March 29, 2019, 12:29:51 AM
So when is it going to happen?  

Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on March 29, 2019, 09:12:11 AM
Great, 1/8" rough sawn is a good tolerance. I am trying to be a machinist. When I see stacks of lumber in the photos they look like they are 1/32" and I look at mine and :(. 

YH, what does crash mean?:
"If thick and thins are an alignment issue due to a crash, it need to be remedied."

This is great men. Lots of experience when you think of a male-male Jic fititng to pull the new hose through. I am noting all the spare parts recommended. I will not hit the mark on this first job, but I will try to get as close I can. 

Not sure what "Velocity" fuses are, but I will get in the manual for that today. 

TTLLC, when you say bolts for jacks, do you mean the bolts that hold the outriggers to the mill? If this it the case, wow, that is a lot of force to shear that. 

WV Sawmiller, no kidding on the woodmizer tele. I discovered soemmthing yesterday, We have a poro signal here, so I walk a hundred meters from sawmill, talk to tech and go back. But I can't look at mill while talking to tech. I saw my 8ft paint ladder and sat on it while look at mill, better. Then, I realized, the bluetoothe headset my son gifeted me can reach fromt he mill to the top of a ladder, so I called tech from ladder, set the phone on top and went over to mill and talked while looking. The evolution of experiential learning in one day. :)

I will do alittle reading and watching for cutting stressed logs. Thanks for the tip and explanation. That makes sense.

YH, we are scheduled for Next Thur, Fri, and Sat, 4, 5, and 6 April. 

I have another smaller job that fell into my lap this week, but I want to take this time to rehearse, prep, tune, develop procedures, etc... 

This morning, after ordering a couple items, I will be testing my saw after a complete alignment (last two days) and cutting an oak beam for my sons office.

Isn't it funny, I thought that I could learn all I needed in a week  :D. It all looks so easy, log, saw back and forth, wood, done.  :o. 

You men are very kind. Thank you!

-Mike




Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: doc henderson on March 29, 2019, 09:22:54 AM
most of us have learned as we go.  you need a bit of both, advice and experience, I am glad you are adding the experience.  I think crash means a violent blade break in a bind or running into something that stops the mill, and after this the mill is not right.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on March 29, 2019, 09:29:42 AM
Will, I am getting to know my saw a little too intimately :)

The following is just sharing about my sawmill tuning experience. 

I spent two days, adjusting it, and readjusting it. I ended up doing a full alignment. This time, I think I came out the other side with a lot more understanding. With a couple phone calls with a friend and a half dozen calls with WM techies, plus reading and rereading the manual, I got it tuned... as far as I know, last night. I will adjust the debarker to match the setup this morning and cut a few logs to ensure all is well. 

One of the things I find myself doing is chasing accuracy. I was out there with my micrometer looking for that .125" (1/8") gullet on the blade to the face of the 19" bandwheel. Problem: when I would get it to 1/8" at say 9 oclock on the wheel, it was .155" at the 12 oclock. If I fixed that, it was smaller at the 9. This was a huge .03 variable... the horrors (1/32").  My friend said, put away the micrometer and get an 1/8" piece of metal and eye ball it. As I recall, the blades are at a few degrees angle inward, so perfection would cause it to lose its's 1/8" space. 

Next came the vertical and horizontal alignment of the band wheels. First, I tried doing this with guide wheels in. Eventallly I discovered (WM Tech guy) that the guide wheels are out when tring align the saw blade to be level with the bed rails. Will, I had the saw blade tracking beautifully at the 1/8" +/- mentioned above, when I made a vertical change to take out the natural desire of my blade to be diving ithout the guide rollers. So, I changed the dive in the blade to run horizontal with the little blade alignment guide tool attached to the blade. Great, I got that taken care of and my tracking was about a 1/4" out of wack.  This went back and forth and I could not get everyone happy with dead accuracy. Well, after speaking with WM tech sup, he told me "think in terms of eyeball accuracy, not micromter accuracy."

The blade guide rollers fix any minor errors in the blade angle to boot. 

I was able in the end to have the guide well under 1/16" level tool guide end-to-end and the tracking about an 1/8" plus or minus a heavy 1/32".

A surprise for me was that my vertical stops lost there precision. I had put a couple straight edges on the bed rails when I got the saw and with a machinist square, I adjusted them good. Well, some of them were out of wack by as much as 3/2" when I checked them. I readjusted them and poured on the torque that my wrench and 3/8 ratchet would allow. 

To be honest, the WM manual for this mill is a little wanting. But the tech support is really good and more than makes up for it during business hours and a wise friend after hours. 

I also noticed with a 6ft level I set on the deck that a bed rail was about an 1/8" low. I had not ever checked this. But with reading manual... and call to tech support for understanding start reference point, I was able to do that easily. 

All said and done, I would rather be sawing, but this was a great experience because I am getting to know the machine. Man alive there are a lot of adjustments ont his mill. I think I mentioned about half and they probably include 30 bolts as a wild guess. I would love to go to the factory and watch a machine being assembled to see the order of business. Or to follow one of their traveling tech guys around for a week. 

The full alignment is probably and hour job for a master at it. I took two FULL days. I THINK I can do it in a few hours now... but that time will likely grow as I forget how I did it. The good thing is, you should never or very very rarely need to do a full alignment.

Will, now to brew some coffee, make purchase decisions, and saw some logs. 

-Mike
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: doc henderson on March 29, 2019, 09:59:50 AM
I have only had to do big alignment once after a chunk hit the outgoing guide block and bent it.  I used a tape measure and a 6 foot level, and needed wrenches after fixing the guide roller bracket.  TK had a good "procedure" described in the manual and I followed it to a T.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: terrifictimbersllc on March 29, 2019, 10:21:32 AM
Not sure what "Velocity" fuses are, but I will get in the manual for that today.  TTLLC, when you say bolts for jacks, do you mean the bolts that hold the outriggers to the mill? If this it the case, wow, that is a lot of force to shear that.  
Not really, try driving off with your mill with a jack still down. Or pull the mill over the curb or some other bump as you are also going up hill.  It will just feel like a little bump. Unless you run over the jack too.

Velocity fuses are those straight fittings on the bottom of your loader cylinders. These limit the falling of a load on the loader, unless they get broken off.  
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: terrifictimbersllc on March 29, 2019, 10:25:49 AM
I think crash means a violent blade break in a bind or running into something that stops the mill, and after this the mill is not right.
Yes, crash as in a physical event, not one that is remedied by restarting your sawmill like you might with a computer. One that involves a moving sawmill head, a moving log perhaps, or a moving vehicle. 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: YellowHammer on March 29, 2019, 11:18:11 PM
A crash is a significant impact on the sawhead, generally the idle side, sometimes more specifically the blade guide arm, which is the most delicate component of the saw.  The crashes are mill shakers, and include rolling a log from the loader arms into the blade guide arm, mill head or debarker.  Slamming the idle side guide into the two plane clamp or even the cant.  Or doing a programmed drop and not having the debarker retracted enough, thus transferring the whole weight of the head into the debarker, causing it to squash.  Starting a cut while the head is dropping, putting all the weight of the sawhead one the idle side blade guides.  Having the near side toe board up and hitting it is bad.  Things like that.  The faster you mill, the faster your cycle time and the more timing is an issue, and missed timing means crashes. Crashes mean misalignment.  

A couple thoughts on alignment.  There are really two types, the initial cut alignment (cut flat and square to the bed) and repeatability alignment (cut flat and consistent to the previous cut).  

If you want to see how well your mill is cutting, make a cut, drop 1/8Ē (plus band thickness) and make another cut.  You should be able skim a board off so thin you can flex it into a circle and just about see through it.  If the mill isnít cutting consistent of there is an issue with the band you will see it. That test the repeatability alignment.  I do this for demos, to show people that bandmills can actually cut accurately and try to make the slices paper thin.  Always good for a few ďOohs and Ahhs.Ē 

Then rotate the cant 90į and push it firmly and flatly against the backstops, make a cut, then another 90į and make a cut and again until back at the original face.  Then let the cant lay on the deck and ease it up to the backstops and see if it is square to them.  Or drop a framing square on the cant and check the angles.  Cutting four faces and coming back to the original face and it being square to the backstops is the acid test.  It wonít be if anything is out out of true.

This is an easy alignment routine to run through on a log immediately following a crash or any time something is suspect without wasting time.  

Backstops get bent, typically from a log slamming into them or overclamping.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on April 01, 2019, 08:55:34 AM
Thank you for the very instructive responses on crashing. Especially the clarifying of what alignment needs to accomplish. With so many adjustments, I lost count, it is easy to miss the forest in the trees. 

Yellow Hammer, I went back and was looking at the image of sawing a log in a cut order and wanted clarification on the outer edges that were not included in the harvested wood area. I was thinking it was just a general pic without the details, but now I am thinking it might be that the sapwood is no joy for high grade wood, so you do not even harvest it? I added your pic with my additions to the pic in red. 


(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51882/Sapwood_edges.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1554123320)
 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: doc henderson on April 01, 2019, 09:05:49 AM
Mike, it is cut off and therefore harvested, but you are correct it will not make good lumber and has bark on it.  It makes good bench seats and firewood.  Lots of people talk about what to do with all the sawdust and wood containing bark and sap wood.  There are lots of ways to do it, but in the pic he maximized the heartwood and even shows edging the sides of the outer boards.  The goal is also to not have boards with pith on the surface.  Depends on the wood type and your end use for the wood.  You can also square up opposite sides and then flat saw all the way through, but some middle boards will have defects from the pith. a wood worker can work around this.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: btulloh on April 01, 2019, 09:10:34 AM
Those outside boards you marked in red are low low grade.  Good for stickers, bracing, or siding on a deer blind.  A lot of time for not much value.  Just depends.  I like having a stack of junk boards around for certain uses, but you have to balance the time with the value sometimes.  Starting out, you need to experiment with some of those sawing decisions and see how it turns out.  That's better done when you're sawing your own logs though.  

That's a grade sawing pattern and is more time-consuming anyway.  I'm sure others will weigh in on this, but most times you'll make your cant and then saw through, flipping 180 degrees as you need to counter stress.  Then edge your side lumber.  A lot of this becomes apparent as you saw more and more logs.  It's a learning process, and all part of the fun.  I don't think there's an end to the learning.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on April 01, 2019, 10:26:58 AM
Happy Birthday Btulloh. 

Thanks for your answers gents. 

Poor choice of vocabulary on my part Doc. I meant to say, "what is the reason for not making four additional boards as I have added in red?" :).

Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: doc henderson on April 01, 2019, 10:34:40 AM
Yes and I was not trying to call you on that, just that you can find uses for that wood, but may not want to use it to make items along with heartwood.  The characteristics of sap wood and heart wood are very diff., in terms of color and density.  As well, as you prob. already know, real logs are crooked and not always round, so the picture is a generalization that you will adapt to your log. So you cut away what you know you do not want for boards and "develop the cant"  by cutting more or less from each side.  It is good to have a plan but that may change as you cut.  Sorry you will not be in Georgia, but am anxious to hear how your first job goes.  I am confident you will do well.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: YellowHammer on April 02, 2019, 12:12:59 AM
Yes, you are correct, the picture is accurate.  Some species of wood, cherry for one, is sawn and sold for grade only if itís a ď90/10 or better.Ē  That means that neither face can have less than 90% heartwood, or more than 10% sapwood.  This ratio insures that at the other face will be all, or nearly all, heartwood.  As the guys said, sapwood pulls and causes board straightness issues, and a bowed board is greatly devalued.  If the devalue is caused by the sawyer by keeping too much sapwood in the board, then itís a significant mistake, especially in my case, where I may spend several, many hundred dollars, per log.  So then itís a big ďOopsĒ if a board comes off the mil DOA.  The technique is called ďSlabbing Deep,Ē and is used to describe the initial opening face depth.  

The 90/10 ratio also applies to boards that need to be edged, so also sets the edging depth.

On some species, itís not so hard and fast a rule, but for others, its required to meet buyer criteria.  
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on April 02, 2019, 11:19:08 PM
Thanks Doc! I have been watching some videos on grading, opening face selection, etc.. I was able to find a few very helpful videos with Dr. Gene. There is not much video of him out there. Do you know if they will be filming his presentation in GA?

Thank you for the clarification YellowHammer!

D-Day is in 33hours. I am getting everything ready. I built a jig today to use on those stumps he wants me to saw. 


Ok, after reading "Woods to Workshop by Dr. Gene Wengert 3 times and watching a couple grading videos, the light bulb is putting out some dim light. But here are a couple quotes from the booklet and my questions: 

 "Lumber from stored logs is perhaps 20 times more likely to develop objectionable drying stains, including sticker stain." 

Why is a stored log in more danger of sticker stain?
 

"Lumber from crooked logs has high slope of grain (SOG). High SOG also results when the lumber is not sawn parallel to the bark. Lumber with such grain pattern will often warp badly during drying. Lumber with a high SOG has greatly reduced strength as well. Often, the strength is critical when sawing softwood construction lumber, so SOG is an important factor to consider when evaluating and sawing logs. Lumber with high SOG also machines poorly, with grain tear-out and raised grain common."  

Seems like one wants parallel to pith, not bark. What am I missing? Are these synonymous terms? I ask because I am always trying to lift the small end on my initial cut so the pith is at the same height and the bark is at a slope typically. 

Have a great trip to Ga gents.

-Mike
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: doc henderson on April 03, 2019, 02:41:07 AM
so you want to cut parallel to the bark.  In theory you would have a tapered piece left over from the middle (not sure anyone does).  In fact, if you split along the grain that would be strongest like old Roy Underhill (wood wright shop)does and then tidy up the wood.  Since you have the longest fibers running the length of the board.  Think about how well a crosscut cookie dries and how bad it cracks and how weak it is.  in a 1 inch thick cookie, the fibers are only 1 inch long and the strength is only in the side to side bonding.  Think of SOG as some percent of between strait grain running the length of the board, and a cookie.  Just like a knot in the board, it will not be as strong, tend to crack, and add stress to the board.  Not sure about the sticker stain, but setting a while, I know maple will begin to oxidize and take on fungal elements.  The take home is saw and sticker as soon as possible.  Just like a dull blade will increase surface checking in oak by 10x.  do not know all the whys, but it just does.  Getting excited for you.  sure you will do well, Not sure if Genes thing will be inside or out, but I am sure there will info on here.
so if you cut parallel to the pith, as you cut and the log tapers you are essentially cutting across the grain as the outside tapers.  Don't think about it too much, you have a ton of knowledge to put to use.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: WDH on April 03, 2019, 07:50:18 AM
Yes, parallel to the bark is best.  Does result in a wedge shaped piece for the last wood on the deck that requires more time to fix.  However, if the logs are relatively short, i.e. 8, 10 12 feet and there is not a great deal of taper, centering the pith does not result in very significant slope of grain.  A very highly tapered log could.  Somewhat of a trade off between perfectly ideal and perfectly practical. 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: btulloh on April 03, 2019, 08:49:57 AM
I'd say parallel to the bark is best only for grade sawing hardwood.  I generally center the pith on something like ERC and when sawing framing lumber.  If I'm grade sawing a nice WO, I usually saw the taper off when I get down to the knots.  All this becomes more apparent as you gain some experience.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on April 04, 2019, 02:07:24 PM
Alrighty. First mornings damage  8)

Went well. Am doing a lot of extra duties, but very content to be here.


(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51882/20190404_125816.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1554401125)
 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on April 05, 2019, 09:01:10 PM
I finished up my second of sawing on my fist sawing job. Walnut, Hickory, and Locust. Have not cut into locust yet. Tomorrow is last/shorter day.  

Day 1: 700 Board Feet
Day 2: 1022 Board Feet

Before I understood the sawyer's roll from you gent's, I said I would help with the log handling, lumber dead stacking, etc..., so I have been wearing several hats to include chopping up some smaller logs into firewood. :) I see how this slows me down a bit, but I am very delighted with all I have learned and I want my customer satisfied, and I had given my word.

His logs sat on ground since last summer. I told him he needs to sticker and setup for air drying ASAP or he will end up with some high dollar firewood.

Customer is a very kind and hardworking gentleman, He is tuckered out. Last word's to me: "I am taking some ibuprofen tonight."

Question: How long does he have to get the lumber stickered and covered before he will be in trouble? His wood is a variety from 1", 2", 8x8 posts, and others.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Southside on April 05, 2019, 09:22:50 PM
Short answer, yesterday. It's getting warmer and humid, exactly opposite of what he wants green, dead stacked lumber lying around in. 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on April 05, 2019, 10:49:29 PM
Thank you SouthsideLogger!

I was afraid of that. the other day, I told him that as soon as we finish sawing it, the next day it should be stickered, covered, off the ground several inches, but I was just parroting the idea I had in my head, not operating from authority... knowing why.

Today, he told me he was going to get to stickering in the next week or two and I said that is way too long to wait; but, I did not have a deadline for him. 

I am going to urge him to get it done tomorrow after we finish sawing around midday. Since he may have helper/day off issues driving him, I will offer to help him myself at a drastically reduced price since I will be a laborer rather than sawing. Just hate for my first sawing job to be an unhappy ending. 

I just bagged several pounds of Solubor for him. I will bring my garden sprayer with me as I may be part of the stickering party and setting him up for air drying.

My plan for air drying in his yard - I very much welcome a critique of this plan. 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on April 05, 2019, 10:51:35 PM
BTW, so I am able to give an answer, what is the answer to why it is so important to be done ASAP? Mold? Rot? SInce the logs have sat on the ground for 6 months, why is a couple weeks bad after sawing? I am trying to make sense of it all. 

Thank you!

-Mike
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: doc henderson on April 05, 2019, 11:00:44 PM
well in a few days, the surfaces will degrade if drying too fast so it is helpful to have the small airspace between the sticker, and in as little as 2 days with sawn maple tight stacked (not stickered)  I have had enough mold growing that it was hard to pull apart.  They may begin to move and so the stack and weight or banding can try to stop that.  I also think helping a hardworking older man stack and sticker his wood, may be good experience and advertising.  you can tell him not to tell anyone else because you usually charge for it or refuse to do it, but you are trying to help him out.  He will pass on what a great guy you are and give your name to others.  Job well done!
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on April 05, 2019, 11:05:09 PM
I like it doc. Thank you. BTW, I heard the get together in GA is really great. Wish I was there, but grasshopper needs to get the pebble out of the hand before such adventures :).
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: WV Sawmiller on April 05, 2019, 11:06:18 PM
   Doc covers it well but in response to your question about the 6 months on the ground prior to sawing remember they were in log form and many of the little nasties could not reach them then. They can now. I know tulip poplar will mold and turn black very quickly if not stickered promptly.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on April 05, 2019, 11:24:16 PM
Thank you WV Sawmiller!

Look in this disparity between the pics below.  It would seem the one has so little support that is will bow the lumber. The other requires many blocks. Perhaps the stack with little support is a temp location and is to be forklifted.


(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51882/Stacked_Lumber_with_little_support.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1554520937)
 

(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51882/Stickering.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1554521029)
 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on April 05, 2019, 11:34:29 PM
I found this statement online:
I don't cover the top pile - to me it's not worth the time. It's cheaper to lose the top row than fool around with having a good cover. I'm moving way too much wood to deal with that. I typically have 60 -100,000 b.f. on stickers at any one time. For air drying the most important thing is air flow, air flow, air flow. 

This s interesting and instructional.


I have seen stacks with the waste slabs being setup on top of the stack serving as weight and rain/sun scree.  Yet, on the other hand I have read you need several inches of overhang, ergo the treated plywood cover.

If overhang is not an issue, I would like to use the waster slabs.

Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Southside on April 05, 2019, 11:56:07 PM
He will have an investment in that lumber, to say the top is not worth covering is the same as throwing money away, best to cover it as you described earlier. As far as the stack photos, the one resting on two 2 x4's is either waiting for a forklift or going to make some designer firewood. 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Ianab on April 06, 2019, 12:14:27 AM
found this statement online: I don't cover the top pile - to me it's not worth the time. It's cheaper to lose the top row than fool around with having a good cover.


I guess that depends on the value of the wood. I've got a stack of Blackwood Acacia drying now, and it's worth $100+ per layer. I've taken the time to cover that top layer with some scrap boards and a tarp. Keep the sun off that stuff. If it was pine fence boards? Meh. There's wood that's 50c per bd/ft, and there's wood that $10, it's reasonable to treat them differently. 

The sun is usually the killer as it will crack and discolour the top layer in days. So a layer of scrap slabs works as a "sunshade". The "top" layer is now the 2nd from top, and protected a lot better.  
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on April 06, 2019, 05:20:11 AM
Southside and Ianab, thank you very much.

Am I on track in reference to spacing of stickers/supports with the following numbers?

Board thickness to support distances? Walnut/Oak/Hickory.
24" for 1"
36" for 1.75"
48" for 3"
6ft for 8"

Also, I saw a video last night where the guy said always put the pith side to top creating a smile with the growth rings. I had not heard that in any other reading. What say ye?

I am about to head out. I will check on my phone when we stop sawing.

I know I have a LOT to learn and I am ashamed to say that I thought (before getting the sawmill) I could learn all I would ever need in a week.  :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D. To make a circular thing into a "somewhat" 90 degree angle thing is a WHOLE lot different than being a professional sawyer.

My hats off to you. The pebble is going to be in your hands for some time to come "dads", but who knows, maybe one day, I will snatch it from your hands :), get my own light saber, and head to the black gate to fight orks, and cast the precious in to mount doom, after I cut the trees down... sorry treebeard.

Have a great day and THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU.

Very satisfied, even with the nightmare letter from the IRS when I got home the first day of this job. They know I have the precious, and they wants it!

-Mike
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Magicman on April 06, 2019, 08:39:28 AM
Keep in mind that there will be customers that will not follow your proper advice regarding stacking/stickering their lumber.  It's sorta that old "you can lead a horse to water........"

Yes, I will tell them what to do but I will not argue.  Sometime lumber is stacked/stickered as it is sawn but many times it goes onto a trailer to be hauled to the barn, etc. for proper stacking.  There are other times when it is dead stacked to be handled later.  Maybe it gets done and maybe it does not.  I have driven by locations months or even years later and the lumber was still as it was when I left.  :-\  Last year I was sawing for a repeat customer and there was a stickered stack of Oak completely overgrown with briars and rotting to the ground.  I said nothing, just kept on sawing.  ::)  
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: WV Sawmiller on April 06, 2019, 08:59:31 AM
   Don't know where you got your thickness to support figures. They may be right but I'd be more comfortable with 2' centers on all supports. Also again just me, but I would turn the smile down. It seems to me wood tends to cup in that direction. Probably does not make a lot of difference if tightly stacked with plenty of weight on top. 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: doc henderson on April 06, 2019, 09:23:38 PM
I know the outer rings with shrink more and if you are building a deck, I would make smiley faces so if when the boards cup the hump will be up and shed water.  also not catch someone's toe or shoe and make them fall. but not for a stickered stack. That photo of a stack needs ground support under each row of stickers, and the animated one is not to scale.  
the force is strong in this one say I.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on April 07, 2019, 07:25:17 AM
Sure wish I could have attended the Sawing Project, but I think I made the right choice for this year. I am still drinking through a fire hydrant.

Magicman, in my case, I felt that I did not communicate enough detail prior to the job, so the customer thought he could do it when it was convenient - couple weeks. I am pretty tired right now, but I plan to reflect on all that has passed and make some notes of lessons learned and I have much to refine when it comes to customer communications.

WV Sawmiller.... I just made that span data up :) , except for the 24"... that I read online. I assumed as it got thicker, spans could increase. I went with 24". 

Here is the  stack base photo. I am grieved I did not take a photo of the lumber all stacked. fter 12 hours of labor and 30min for lunch, we were shall we say, tired and it slipped my mind. 


(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51882/2019-04-07_05_32_49.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1554635650)
 

Doc/WV, I ended up just stacking and did not remember to consider smiles. I am glad to hear it is not critical. I think/hope I would remember if it was a critical issue. That would not be fun restacking.


Doc, I took your advice. On the way in to his place yesterday morn, I called customer and told him that we should forgoe sawing for the day. I would just come as a friend and help him set up his lumber for air drying, no charge. I got there, made some calculations, and we headed off to lowes for some blocks and "lumber" :) . Came back and got the platform done about lunch time. Then we set up a cleaning and Timbor spray station. Then loaded his trailer and drove across yard to air - drying platform and stacked about eight or ten different stacks, got some temporary cover that he is going to improve upon this week. 

He had paid me the night prior for the two days dine and four hours of hourly rate sawing for Saturday.... Well, as I was getting the four hours pay out to return it to him, he hands me a very nice check and when I protested, he insisted and said, it was well earned, I worked hard and deserved it. I was blown away. I may sell my saw and get into stacking lumber :).

I got home at 9:30PM and I was tired sarge. 

Below are some pics. We got all the walnut stacked and all the heavy lumber, minus the large beams. He is going to move the beams with his tractor - heavy stuff.  He also said he would handle all the light weight oak himself.

After I sort through all that happened over the next few days, I will post some lessons learned and questions to learn how to solve them. 


(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51882/2019-04-07_05_32_00.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1554635854)
 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51882/2019-04-07_05_28_42.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1554635883)
 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51882/2019-04-07_05_30_50.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1554635919)
 



The wet look is from the solubor and rv antifreeze spay.
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51882/2019-04-07_05_29_49.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1554635947)
 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51882/20190404_100206.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1554635986)
 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: doc henderson on April 07, 2019, 07:32:57 AM
The pictures I am seeing, are those of a very professional sawyer.  Best Regards Sir!
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: scsmith42 on April 07, 2019, 07:42:22 PM
Lots of great advice thus far in this thread from many seasoned professionals.

Iíll add a couple of comments from the peanut gallery.  ;D

First, RV antifreeze is not necessary as a carrier for the solubor unless the lumber is already dry.  For green lumber fresh from the log, water is fine.  The moisture already present in the lumber will help wick the solution deeper into the boards, which is why water is ok on green lumber.  The advantage that RV antifreeze provides on dry lumber is that it wonít evaporate very quickly, allowing the wood to stay moist longer and allow the solution to wick further into the boards.

Second, as time progresses you will learn that there are many different methods of milling.  Milling for yield, milling for grade, quartersawing, milling beams, etc - all may have different optimum approaches.  For grade milling, as Gene has stated itís best to mill parallel to the bark.  However, this is not necessary if youíre milling barn siding or horse fencing.  Centering the pith on each end of the log is critical if you are quartersawing, and itís also pretty important if youíre milling beams and timbers.

The growth rings in boards tend to try to straighten out as they dry, or in other words they will cup towards the bark.  If the top boards of an uncovered stack are placed pith down, then as they cup they will trap water along the board - causing it to rot but keeping the water out of the stack.  If you place the top boards pith size up, as they cup they will flow water off of the sides of the boards and into the stack.

Dry stickers - donít recall if I saw that mentioned in the 16 pages thus far but if you use green stickers on green lumber you will usually end up with sticker stain.

Re dry stacking green lumber, the key number to remember is 50.  50 degrees that is.  Most mold/milder that Iíve seen starts at temperatures higher than 50.  So if youíre milling in the middle of winter and itís 30 degrees out you can dead stack for far lumber than if itís July and 80 degrees.  In the latter instance, you better sticker every day.

Best to start your stickers within 1Ē of the end of the stack.  Certain species such as white oak will usually not crack/check past the first sticker, so if you stack with the sticker at the ends you will reduce the potential for significant end checks.

Also, when stacking place your highest grade boards at the bottom of the stacks so that the weight of all the lumber above them helps to keep them flat.  Also a sheet of plastic put down on the ground below the bottom layer helps to keep some bugs away and also promote more even drying (no moisture wicking up from the ground beneath the stack).

I like to stack in 40 - 48Ē deep stacks because that matches up with more fork lengths.  It really sucks to pick up a 54Ē wide stack with some 42Ē forks and watch the far side of the stack sluff off....  Sometimes the stickers will help keep the higher boards in place but you still lose the bottom board (and sometimes a few above it) if your stacks are wider than your forks.

Best of success to you.  Your attitude is great.

Scott


Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: WV Sawmiller on April 07, 2019, 08:12:44 PM
Grasshopper,

 WARNING, WARNING, WARNING Will Smith Robinson - it looks like you put a lot of time and effort into that stacking base however I hope it is not a great big square like that without enough air flow between the stacks. :o I had a customer one time make a single stack 8' square then wanted to completely cover it with a tarp. I got him to remove the tarp and break that down into 2-4X8 stacks laid end to end for better air flow.

 I never make a stack over 4' wide and prefer 3' although I see lots of well stacked piles that are 4' wide. Hopefully some wiser and smarter people will chime in on this issue.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: doc henderson on April 07, 2019, 08:28:48 PM
do not want to disagree with WV, but I think it was Will Robinson on lost in space that the robot would caution!!!  and Dr. Smith that always fowled things up.   :D :D :D.  Mike I think you did good and we all do it a little different.  Mayby your client can text you a pic so we can see it.  osb or plywood would work ok to cover.  You do want stack of boards oriented so the breeze to come in from the side of the stack
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: WV Sawmiller on April 07, 2019, 09:06:23 PM
Doc,

   That is correct. Good catch. Yes, Dr. Smith was the weasel stow away as I remember of course my memory could be going. They say it is the second thing to go and I can't remember what the first one was. :embarassed:
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: doc henderson on April 07, 2019, 09:43:21 PM
I asked yellow hammer that question, and he likes 42 inch wide pallets by 8 or 10 feet so they fit in the kiln and side by side on a trailer, so the straps can strap the load with the hooks inside the rub bar.  I think Jake's were 4 x 10 feet with cross members every 16 inches.  Mike if your getting any lumber from your less than perfect logs you have described at home, you might make a few pallets.  hope to see you next year at the project.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on April 07, 2019, 10:13:25 PM
Doc, as always, thank you for the enCOURAGEment and words of wisdom. I too hope to meet you gents next year. I will ask him to take a pic when he removes the temp plywood cover to reinstall it more properly. I hope... and think?? he will do this. However, after several hours yesterday, he was joking about how much work it is and said he wonders if he shouldn't have turned down my offer and left it to rot into high dollar firewood, took the beams and burned the walnut :). We had a good time, but we worked! 

scsmith42, that was a very valuable post. Thank you very much for chiming in! Since it was a last minute emergency mission to get him stickered, we just went to lowes for the blocks, 4x4s, and used 3/4 plywood for the stickers. 

WVSawmiller, I hope I am OK as the platform has no stack wider than about 20" and I do have it oriented so the prevailing winds from the south come into the side. In hindsight I would have done smaller stack area anyways. He is not forklifting anything, but it was a little more tedious to get in the middle (hurdles). However, it is multiple stacks separated, so I hope we are ok there. He wanted a lot of different unique sized cuts, so we stacked according to type, or similar. n

If I need to, I will go back and redo the whole thing myself, but I THINK I am OK?? What say ye?

At this point, I have very little conviction on the how/why of doing what I do. However, I think I will get my convictions as to how it should be done, or how I should do it. I hope am always teachable and willing to do it different when I ought to. 

I cannot repay you men for all your kindness. However, I am very grateful!

Have a good evening's rest!

-Mike
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: doc henderson on April 07, 2019, 10:22:25 PM
It has been and is my pleasure, and I am quite sure I speak for everyone.  Remember we do not have to read or chime in.   :)  I bet his wood will be fine.  You should sleep well. lots of hard work and a great first sawing job.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: scsmith42 on April 07, 2019, 11:39:12 PM
scsmith42, that was a very valuable post. Thank you very much for chiming in! Since it was a last minute emergency mission to get him stickered, we just went to lowes for the blocks, 4x4s, and used 3/4 plywood for the stickers.
Mike, Glad to help.

Lowes also sells spf 1x2ís, which measure 3/4Ē x 1.5Ē x 8í.  You can cut them in half and net a couple of 4 footers, and they are the correct thickness.  Much less work than using plywood, and they wonít delaminates in the weather.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: YellowHammer on April 08, 2019, 08:20:26 AM
Mikey, I've got to say that if I ever wanted to hire a sawmiller, it would be you!  Above and beyond service, for sure, even though you are just getting experience, it won't be long and you will be getting more business than you can handle.  

Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: WV Sawmiller on April 08, 2019, 08:40:18 AM
Grasshopper,

   Let's all keep our fingers crossed as if there is sufficient air flow all will be fine but just keep the width in mind on future projects. Well done and congratulations. As long as the customer is happy you have done very well. Keep up the good work.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Southside on April 08, 2019, 09:05:05 AM
One thing to just keep in the back of your mind too is that it is possible to set up a stack to air dry too quickly - yea I know we are getting into reverse logic here and Egon said to never cross the streams, "crossing the streams is bad" but a couple of really good examples of that were pointed out this weekend at the sawing event.  They included things like a stack of red oak being place on the top of an open hill in August in TN with the prevailing winds coming in from the sides, didn't work out too good, so the door swings both ways and you have to take that into account when deciding where to place your stack, one of those factors being if it is a species that is sensitive to drying too quickly and just what environmental conditions it will be exposed to.    
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Magicman on April 08, 2019, 09:21:46 AM
 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/IMG_5555.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1546741806)

Here is a stickered stack of Red Oak flooring that I have air drying before it goes to the kiln.  It's under a shed with the West side blocked by other dry lumber and the South end blocked by firewood.  Random boards were also placed on top after this picture was taken.  I looked at it this past weekend and everything looks good.  It was sawn January 5th and will soon make it's trip to the kiln/plane/T&G. 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: kkennedy64 on April 08, 2019, 09:49:51 AM
WOW, lot's of great info on this string!  Thank you to all you experienced guys for sharing with us newbies.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: YellowHammer on April 08, 2019, 10:32:08 AM
I had air dried stacks of lumber in one place and destroyed it, moved the next stacks a couple hundred yards away and they did great.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on April 08, 2019, 10:48:58 AM
scsmith, I am going to saw up a BUNCH of stickers and get them air dried and ready to go as an option for the customers to purchase. Will pine work? If air drying won't do it, I can make a ragtag sticker solar kiln to really bake them. Not a big problem for perfect as they are stickers, not furniture.

I am also thinking of changing to 1" stickers since we are a high humidity area, real high.

YellowHammer, Thank you very much for such a compliment. It is a very humbling and I would be intimidated sawing for you, but I hope to be worthy of the high praise through steadfastness and diligence. A gentlemen who has been helping me a lot through this told me he really respects you and learned a lot from you this weekend in GA.  Actually, my current close targets include contacting you about a good 1 or 2 day visit. I read you are getting a new baby (LT70 Super) in your sawing shed today, so I am sure you have your hands full, but as soon as it would be a good fit for you to have a servant come sweat and feed on the experience, grasshopper is at your service sensai and I am wide open, and can come at a days notice, barring any other hard commitments coming onto my calendar.

Yellowhammer, i just noticed your last post. Do you have any idea what caused the difference int he two locations that one would destroy lumber and the other dry it?

WV Sawmiller, aye, I will ask him to take a periodic look at it when he is cutting his grass to see if any problems show up. I will indeed keep this in mind. As a wise friend told me going into this first sawing job, if you throw a round (shooting term for missing your target), stay focused or you will throw another. I will definately keep this in mind for the future. I should not have missed it, i did, but will remember this.

I really wwant to saw more, as that brings the right questions to be answered to the light. While I also DO NOT want to be sawing so much (yet) that I do not have time to refine and get my blackbelt in sawyer kung fu. Striking the balance, being diligent, finding my niche, and sawing, sawing, sawing.

Southside...? Hey someone stole your "Logger"? Or are you some sort of Norse Pirate who stole my friend's identity? That is an excellent point about lumber that requires slower drying times and I am glad you pointed it out as I am at a point where 2+2=4 is easier than I before E except afetr C.  The letter of the laws are easier than understanding the spirit of the law, but when this sort of info comes to me, it helps remove the fog and tunnel vision from my eyes to aceive understanding.

Magicman, thank you for the photo. It appears you have at least 1" stickering and the timeframe is cooler than what is coming. However, I put more space between the stacks and the widest stack we have is about the width of that shorter stack.... on to kiln/plane/T&G hmmm.... that is very cool. I watched  a video last week of a family that harvests the trees and does every process all the way to installed and finished flooring.

kkennedy64, I agree wholeheartedly with you! Isn't this great. These men who are diligent, have sweat, are sweating, and they still sacrifice their time to streamline the learning and throw a line down the cliff to help their neighbors get to the summit safely and quicker than otherwise possible and to learn more than one man could learn alone in several lifetimes.

Thanks gents!

-Mike
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on April 08, 2019, 11:35:20 AM
Gentlemen, I am going to be transitioning to Turbo 7 degree double-hard blades. .042 x 1-1/4. Woodmizer DOES NOT recommend it for the LT35 BECAUSE the amount of board footage per sharpening is less from some testing they did as these are higher horsepower friendly blades as I understand it.

However, Southside uses them and has awesome results. I am going to purchase some, just weighing if it will be this week or not. Blades are free shipping for full box this month. 

Southside, did you keep sharpening and using the blades you had on hand for lower grade work until they were trashed thus phasing them out slowly... or did you stop using them completely once you started with the turbo 7s? 

Also, I have had lots of sawdust staying on my lumber after the pass. My alignment is very good as far as I can tell. 

Notes that may shed some light:


Thanks. -Mike

Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Southside on April 08, 2019, 11:55:36 AM
Mike,

This gets controversial so I will tell you my experience. Once I went to turbos for my 35 I basically never used any of the older other profiles I had laying around. I still have some 4's and some 10's. 

If I have a log that I am pretty sure has metal in it then I would grab one of those because I really didn't care if it got trashed. Once I transitioned any decent other profiles I had I boxed up and had Re-sharp take care of, then they became my "sacrafice" bands.  Understand though that by then I was selling lumber, sawing for others and generating money with my mill so I looked at it as an investment. I would not hesitate to use up a supply of good bands and get my money out of them just because they were less than perfect. 

In complete transparency I just ordered a box of Kasco's this morning for the 70 as I am trying a few new things on that saw. 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: WV Sawmiller on April 08, 2019, 12:20:04 PM
Grasshopper,

   I assumed you were using 1" stickers anyway. I'd bet that is what most of us use. I do because I can salvage them from the edging of 4/4 (1") boards. I also sometimes make 1"X 1" X 5' tomato stakes, often from 10' strips cut in the middle at a 45 degree angle for a point (so I get 2 stakes with each cut), and strips that break I cut into 1', 2' and 3' stickers. I sometimes salvage some 4' tomato stakes as some people like them and they sell too. I stick 1' stickers in various knee braces in my shed where they are handy and stack and sticker the others just like my lumber to air dry. You will be surprised how handy a 1' sticker is for stickering boards or slabs from a single tree, small crotch pieces, cookies, etc. If it won't make a 1' sticker it goes in the kindling bucket or the next crate full of kids toy blocks.

   Sometimes when edging 6/4 & 8/4 pieces I will edge in 1/2" drops on my SS yielding 3/8" strips like lath pieces that are handy for making small crates and such.

   It all depends on how much time I have on my hands. These may not be things you can or want to do at a customer job but when you are just piddling at home you can salvage an awful lot off a tree.

   If you have pine available it IMHO makes great stickers. Dries much faster and seems to produce less sticker stain than many hardwoods. I've read here where members cut softwood stickers and laid them on hot asphalt drives and such to dry even faster.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on April 08, 2019, 01:00:37 PM
Southside, totally get it. The battle for brands, teams, and even bandsaw blades is one of differing experiences, opinions, and can have a thousand unknown variables. However, I know the Turbos work well for you, I respect you, and I am going to try a box. 

Just trying to decide on this week or later as I REALLY need a barn up too... and the IRS has coma callin and they have bayonets, guns, cages, and a host of tools from mount doom, the death star, and are friends of the Godfather, Don Vito Corleone himself; so, I need a CPA to help me wade through this part of the dramatic theater of life  8).

WV Sawmiller, those are some very good ideas Master Po :). I originally thought, if 3/4 is good, why not make them 3/4 and get more out of a piece of lumber; however, with our area's humidity, 1" seems to be a good starting point for long term stickering/air drying with all else considered from species, orientation, ground distance, protection from above and below, and dimensions of stack.

Thanks Gents!




Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: scsmith42 on April 08, 2019, 01:07:10 PM
scsmith, I am going to saw up a BUNCH of stickers and get them air dried and ready to go as an option for the customers to purchase. Will pine work? If air drying won't do it, I can make a ragtag sticker solar kiln to really bake them. Not a big problem for perfect as they are stickers, not furniture.


-Mike
Pine works fine for stickers as long as it is dry.  In your area, SYP should air dry down to 16% in about 60 days.  Mill as wider boards, air dry, and then resaw into stickers.  Most folks go with 1-1/4" wide as that way it's hard to put the sticker in sideways.
Once dry cut your boards to 48" and then run them through a tablesaw to make the stickers.  A power feeder is a nice option.  You can also resaw them into stickers using your sawmill and stacking the boards vertically.
Kiln stickers are usually 3/4" but 1" is about optimum for air drying.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Southside on April 08, 2019, 01:09:27 PM
I stand behind using Turbos on a 35, they have served me well in pine, oak, even hickory, I still have 6 un-opened boxes of them for my 70 as well, but in the same manner that I first tried the Turbos for my 35 I am trying options for the 70 is all.

  
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: WV Sawmiller on April 08, 2019, 02:05:54 PM
Grasshopper,

 Put down the pebble and get to work on your shed. Warning - no matter how big you build it, it will not be big enough.

  Below is a picture or two of my pole barn I built for storing lumber and related equipment. I used Black locust poles off my property which I assume you may also have and white oak as the next option for uprights. I squared 1-3 edges on the uprights on my mill and should have squared at least 3 edges on all so I'd have flat nailing surfaces for adding knee braces and shelving to go vertical once I covered the floor space. I used my practice lumber for sheeting. It was not all pretty enough to sell but full fit for purpose. I bought a bunch of used corrugated roofing from a barn teardown in the next county for a few hundred dollars. (If the IRS demons don't leave you enough cash for buying new roofing I bet you can find similar deals in your part of the country if you keep your eyes open.) I painted the roof good with aluminum coating once it was installed. On one end I built in about a 3'X12' work bench with some bins for storing hardware and supplies. In the middle of the bench I added an RAS which is as handy as a pocket on a shirt for a sawing and lumber operation. I probably have about $500 in the total cost of material plus the "free" lumber and poles off my property and the cost of sawing from which I needed the practice anyway.

(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/shed_with_extension_2-2-16~9.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1554746206)
 3 Roughly 20' wide bays, 12' deep and 12'-15' high

(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/IMG_0602~3.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1554746332)
 Shelves added later - bench legs and stickers stored here

(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/IMG_0603~1.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1554746393)
 Shelves added between every partition with slow moving lumber, cookies, etc. All are about 3' wide and used 2X6's and plenty of knee braces.

(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/IMG_0329~3.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1554746577)
 I extended power to the middle of the shed, built a rough table on an outside upright to use my planer and tenon cutter and general work bench - just a couple of 2X4's nailed on each side of an upright and the convenient work height, 2 simple knee braces, and scrap 1X6's for a bench top.

 Not pretty but works fine and built on a tight budget.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on April 08, 2019, 09:20:28 PM
scsmith, I had not thought about cutting the stickers after drying. I also had not considered a power feed for a table saw. I looked one up and very nifty trick my friend. I may build one of those once I have my shop built. 

WV Sawmiller, I picked up a bunch of used metal roofing about three weeks ago for cheap. Thank you for sharing how you did it and including the photos. Questions: I know what a sticker is... what is a "bench leg"? Just what it says? Do you build benches to sell? 

also, the last picture shows a board getting clamped with a vise and setting on a beam. Does that stabilize the board while you cut the tenon with the draw knife by hand?

$500 is making it happen on a dime. Well done. I like it. I am trying to do it cheap, but my design was pre-sawmill, and is to be a shop with concrete floor and even an office that I want to move into and sell the camper and cargo trailer. Are you saying a white oak post will hold up against rot similar to a treated post? I don't know what I have around here for locust, but I have a few white oaks. Another area I need to develop tree identification and interpretation of quality skills, 

-Mike




Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Southside on April 08, 2019, 09:45:05 PM
Another area I need to develop tree identification and interpretation of quality skills,


If you find your way into middle Georgia at some point make plans to visit with @WDH (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=4370) - he took me on a quick and dirty walk while at Jakes and gave me a good foundation on tree identification, coupled with a guide a guy could do quite well.  Just don't ask him about Ash trees...:D
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: WV Sawmiller on April 08, 2019, 09:47:52 PM
Grasshopper,

  When you finish building and filling that pre-planned barn and realize you still need more space for your lumber you have some ideas for a cheap option.

  Yes, I make and sell primitive benches. I think the best description starts at about post 37 or there-abouts on this post:  
http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=97464.msg1511661#msg1511661 (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=97464.msg1511661#msg1511661)

  Just another option of things to do with your time and wood when people like me don't have the talents of the many finished woodworkers on this forum. Good luck.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on April 08, 2019, 10:32:29 PM
If I make it to next years sawing project, I may look at that. There are some old timers around here that grew up with these trees and I plan to get some help once I do a little diligence on my own. 

WV Sawmiller, very nice and creative. I put this one together one evening after quitting time with a piece of left over scrap. My neighbor likes it, so I am going to make him one when I get to sawing a in a few days. 


(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51882/Pine_Bench.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1554777015)
 

I have a 10 year old strange structure of some sort that came with the land. I am going to tear it down and utilize some of the wood for my sawing shed. At least that is my tentative plan. 





Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Southside on April 08, 2019, 10:49:32 PM
I have a 10 year old strange structure of some sort that came with the land


You can't just throw that out there without photographs you do realize.  
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on April 08, 2019, 11:24:17 PM
I will photograph it tomorrow  :D.

BTW, how do you like our front porch... the pallets under the bench sit on the side of the camper.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Southside on April 09, 2019, 12:10:15 AM
You have pallets for a porch? We are not so fancy around these parts, we have wood chips.  :D
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: YellowHammer on April 09, 2019, 06:40:27 AM
My old back porch used to be our flat bed trailer.  Sometimes Iíd move it so it also served as the front porch.   :D
Those were the days.  
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on April 11, 2019, 01:52:56 PM
Wow sawdust deck and portable front and back porch. I live in HICKman county, TN but you folks got some classy hillbillying there. :)

Alright  @Southside (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=24297) here are your pics. Sorry for delay. Had a small road repair job pop up yesterday. Seems like the guy had acquired a bunch of insulated garage door panels as they are a lot of vinyl panels with 2" foam in between. He shingled the whole thing. There are 24 4x4 posts inside and some 2x6 headers and 2x4s for shed roof support. I am going to tear it down and prob use the 4x4s for my sawing shed posts and use the 2x material and foam board for some upcoming projects. The garage doors do not operate, it is on the backside of the property, so I will not use it for storage. 


(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51882/2019-04-11_10_23_35.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1555004806)
 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51882/2019-04-11_10_21_43.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1555004802)
 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51882/2019-04-11_10_21_04.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1555004799)
 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51882/2019-04-11_10_20_17.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1555004798)
 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on April 11, 2019, 01:56:20 PM
When shipping blades for resharp, the guy told me to use any box.  Currently all the blades that need sharpening are coiled. I do not have an extra steel clip to put them unto a flat box (like the box new blades come in). I don't mind a large box for 15-20 coiled blades, BUT, I don't want to pay a mint in shipping either. Can anyone give me a solution? Thanks. -Mike
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: doc henderson on April 11, 2019, 03:04:16 PM
I save the boxes the blades came in (I know that does not help you)  and I secure each blade folded in thirds with a plastic zip tie.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on April 11, 2019, 04:41:46 PM
Thank you @doc henderson (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=41041) . Are you saying you send them the blades in coils like photo A or photo B? I can find or make a box for photo B, but I do not have a metal clip to make a box like A. 


(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51882/BladeCoilsMAIN~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1555015246)
 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51882/2019-04-11_15_36_37.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1555015263)
 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: doc henderson on April 11, 2019, 04:56:52 PM
I do photo A and get a box 16 inches square and a foot tall.  get about 8 blades each, 20 bucks to ship.  i have a niece i can send them with as well who lives in KC.  you make a clip I am sure, or guys like Jake with over 500 blades prob. has a bucket full he could poss ship to you.  Or check with Kasco if you are using there blades and get some clips and boxes.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Southside on April 11, 2019, 05:56:27 PM
You could un box your new bands and hang them, use the clip to return your Re-sharp bands and ask nicely for a second clip, then you will have two. 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on April 11, 2019, 06:11:40 PM
Southside, I like that. I will coil my brand new blades for storage. Question: When they are coiled, they set one on top of another. Seems like it may be bad for tips (metal on metal). Is this an accurate concern on my part? If so, I will put them in the box, I was going to use for shipping and put cardboard between the blades to preserve them. At least until I build some storage boxes that someone ( I think WV Sawmiller) post pics of early in this thread.

I just did a little research on rake angle determination so I can distinguish between my 4 degree and 10 degree blades. Bingo. For other new guys, I will put the following pic:


(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51882/rake-angle.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1555020873)
 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: doc henderson on April 11, 2019, 06:20:03 PM
yes, my blades come with cardboard between the bands.  you could drive a dowel into and post and hang them, if you do not have little kids running around the area.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Southside on April 11, 2019, 08:16:39 PM
Mike - insulated walls, overhead doors, man door. I see the PERFECT building for a combination chicken coop and kiln that would make @customsawyer (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=1861) proud!! So much simpler having both under one roof.   :D
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: YellowHammer on April 11, 2019, 09:17:30 PM
If you put the blades going to Resharp in any old box, no cardboard separator, they will send them back in a new 10 pack box, with cardboard, etc.  If you get on the Resharp Replacement program, if you send 9 used bands back they will fill the box with a 10th, at a slight discount.  I have a box for different angles, and have found its best not to mix hook angles or thicknesses as well as to clearly label each box with a large Sharpie.

Ask them to send you a blade template gauge, it has all the angles, gullet depth, etc but Turbos.  It is useful for identifying bands, but is invaluable if you get one that isn't cutting right, you can check its characteristic geometry against the gauge and you may find an issue, especially if you start sharpening your own.




Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Magicman on April 11, 2019, 09:26:17 PM
Home Depot has the cube boxes for only a couple of $$.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: trapper on April 12, 2019, 12:28:57 AM
I asked and resharp sent me some extra clips when they returned my sharpened blades.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: LeeB on April 12, 2019, 02:38:29 AM
Not OEM, but I made one from a welding rod. 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: terrifictimbersllc on April 12, 2019, 06:36:44 AM
Or 1/4" steel rod bent into a 2" square with a gap at the ends.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on April 17, 2019, 08:51:37 AM
Normally, I would fab the clips, but our living situation has me out of reach of many tools for a little while longer, so the easiest will be to take the one clip I have and ask for more.

However, as I considered my blade number about 15 ea 10 degree and 4 degree... now that I know how to read them :)... I am going to pull the trigger on the 7 degree turbos. 

My question for anyone who uses turbo 7's on an LT35... how do you cut with them? It "SOUNDS LIKE" I need to go as fast as possible without killing the motor?
@Southside (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=24297) and anyone else want to share their experience, please do. 

I am going to a promising customer's house this morning for an access evaluation. I really will need a 4WD sooner or later. 

Picked up a few sheets of foam insulation... shop, house, and solar kiln :)?


(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51882/2019-04-12_15_06_05.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1555505335)
 

Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: DWyatt on April 17, 2019, 10:27:23 AM
I just cut with the turbo 7s this weekend,25 hp kohler on an lt40. I cut poplar, pin oak, and some walnut with them.

I set the speed so the motor bogged down a bit under the load. You will know the sound when you hear it. The poplar had been standing dead for awhile so it was a little soft, I set the speed to bog the motor down a bit as before and as I got more comfortable with the quality of cut I bumped it up another ~10%. Cut flat and true the whole time.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: doc henderson on April 17, 2019, 10:36:40 AM
Mike, maybe you can fold your dull blades in thirds and you will know what is dull and what is sharp.  Or does anyone have a EDITED BY ADMIN load of extra clips and can ship some to Mike?  you do not want to "almost kill the engine"  but just hear it pull down a bit with the governor kicking in.  If it works well you can push just  a little harder.  learning curve and may change with diff species, blades, and grain.  If you push hard with a dull blade, it may break or go all over creation.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on April 17, 2019, 10:44:17 AM
DWyatt, so you actually kept it at a slight bog? Good to know. I have never run it that fast and I wondered about that as it meant fairly slow runs. I guess the goal is too push it and find the limits of keeping it running as fast as you can with perfect cuts and not killing the motor. 

Doc, thank you for your thoughtfulness. But, I have the one clip. Also, I have a hundred of those HD boxes that MM mentioned (from our move to TN) so I can ship coiled for first time if I do not want to grab the clip I have. No need for anyone to trouble themselves, especially since I have that obstacle cleared. 

Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Southside on April 17, 2019, 11:07:36 AM
Personally I cut with them keeping the sharp, pointy side towards the log, but others may use a different technique.  :D

You definitely don't want to bog the engine, do not let the RPM's drop or you will loose performance and quality in a hurry.  You want to push the band to the point where you are right up against the governor, you will be able to hear the sound, and it's a fine line between just right and too much.  That is the happy zone for the Turbo 7.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: YellowHammer on April 17, 2019, 01:48:19 PM
As Southside said, run the engine in the power band, you'll hear it get deep and mean.  I think DWatt is describing hitting the power band, as his description of "You will know the sound when you hear it" is a good description of an engine reaching down and grabbing horsepower.  If the RPM drop significantly, then its out of the power band and is about to stall.  Not good.    

As with any band, even my LT70 today cutting 36 and 40 inch cherry logs, the key is to run as fast as the motor and band will let you.  The motor provides real time auditory feedback and the band provides real time visual feedback.  So listen to the motor and watch the sawdust coming from the gullets of the band.  

Watch the little rooster tail of sawdust just as it exits the cut, and if it is in line with the band, then the band is cutting straight and flat, or otherwise in the same plane as the exiting sawdust.  If the sawdust stream twitches high or low, it means the band is not in the same plane as the exiting sawdust and since sawdust typically flies in a straight line the band must be off plane, which means its not cutting flat.  So slow down or speed up, whichever works for that cut.  The time to find out you have a wavy cut in not when stacking the board, but rather when cutting the board.  

Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on April 17, 2019, 05:17:20 PM
Thank you gents. 

Do you enter the log at cut speed, 

or do you 

enter slow and once the blade is all the way in, pick up the speed? 

I have been doing the latter thus far, but am not sure if this is proper?

-Mike
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Mike W on April 17, 2019, 06:44:41 PM
Well now that SS has fixed my issue by enlightening me with which direction the blade should face, I should start to make some sense out of all this  :D.  

You want to enter the cut at moderate speed, not full cut speed to allow the blade to balance out in the cut, once blade is in the cut, pick up speed to what SS and YH mention, you'll get the feel of it real quick with the tips given you by these guys.

looks great so far, just keep on keeping on, it just gets easier with time and more dust

Mike
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on April 17, 2019, 10:05:34 PM
Thanks Mike W. I am glad SS chimed in too. Here I had been doing it backwards all this time. You live, you learn  :D.

New question: WHY is sawdust being left on the lumber? It should be exiting the cut and this is not the case for me... yet; but, I do want to figure this out asap. A little help please :P.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: doc henderson on April 17, 2019, 10:09:57 PM
that should improve as you increase your speed.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Southside on April 17, 2019, 10:22:32 PM
Forward speed, band speed too slow, band profile, excessive water use, and chicken karma will all cause excessive sawdust to remain on the lumber rather than exit with the band.  
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Woodpecker52 on April 17, 2019, 10:27:38 PM
I have always run my motor at full throttle  and slow feed rate when it starts to bog down on really large logs.  Majority of time lately just use manual mode and switch to electric feed just to see it work. Its just something about feeling the log cut that you can know how the blade is reacting  and losing its edge etc.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Woodpecker52 on April 17, 2019, 10:41:36 PM
Sawdust residue is always left on the board,  I have a medium flow of water to the blade and the dust at the end is usually wet. After two logs I will open up the housing and blow out any wet dust on sides, bottoms and end opening, I use to clean belts but no more, brushes solved that problem. I also blow both tracks and bunks etc.  I have a air compressor nearby however and mill is stationary.  I may be overdoing it but it is no big deal on this mill.  I never want to be cutting dry, blades start heating up and get funky fast. To remove the wet dust from the boards I have a few HF long brushes to sweep them clean as I am stacking.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: YellowHammer on April 17, 2019, 11:04:51 PM
Some sawdust is alwaysbleft in the board, but it should be coarse and flaky and simply fall off when the board is tilted or bounced.  The type of sawdust left on the board is a good indication of how well the band and for that matter, the how the saw is working.  Remember that a log is usually green, therefore full of water, so coolant is not needed but blade cleaner is.  So with a green log, the faster you saw, the cooler the band and much less blade lube/coolant/cleaner is needed.  
When you have everything dialed in, there should only be a light sawdust residue.  
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: doc henderson on April 17, 2019, 11:16:35 PM
custom sawyer Jake had about a 12 inch wide sheetrock plaster knife and it came off well.  it is hard to sweep wet sawdust, takes about 3 passes.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: YellowHammer on April 18, 2019, 01:21:27 PM
Yes, a wide Sheetrock knife is the best way to clean sawdust IMO if itís sticking, but if possible, the goal would be to not have to clean it at all.

For those who were at the Project, when we were quarter sawing the three sycamore logs, although we had to brush the sawdust off the top half of the cant, (beacause we didnít flip it) I only had to turn the actual boards over for Jake and I to usually asses the rays and dump the sawdust off for the guys stacking.  If some did stick, it was minimal.  

Jake is an expert at sawing fast, doing about 2.5 million bdft per year, with minimal lube and that is a great example of how it can be done.  Imagine if he had to clean the sawdust off each board, what a time issue that would be.

Iím not saying having sawdust stick to the board is bad, anytime a good straight board comes off the mill, it is a good thing.  However, sawdust can be reduced from a total pain to a virtual non event as a useful goal. My saying, ďTake steps to save stepsĒ addresses this, because if I can keep from having to clean sawdust off boards, one less thing to do.  Saving steps doing less but producing more.  

When I use oil and water emulsions, for example, or even diesel in rare instances, I try to only get the lube to spray maybe once, sometimes twice, per 8 feet of travel.  This reduces the smell of diesel in the boards and still keeps the band clean.  It also keeps the sawdust from absorbing oil and packing in the board.  

Remember for sawdust to eject cleanly, it must be held in suspension by the air trapped in the gullets of the band. If it falls out of suspension or gets spilled, it will get trapped between the band and the wood and get pressed onto the board surface like spackle.  Lots of lube will wet the sawdust and cause it to fall out of suspension.  

Iím not telling anyone how to saw, Iím just saying how I do it, and what my goals are.    



Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on April 19, 2019, 10:26:59 AM
Thanks gents. I am going to push my speeds to avoid timidity which I may be prone to because of a lack of confidence. I have the 12" putty knife because I see it in pics; but, as YH pointed out, this sawdust can be minimized with proper setup/operation. On my fist job, it was covered all over the wood surface and to see the grains meant using the putty knife. I tried, fast, slow on the same cut a few times just to see if their was a difference. No joy thus far.

I sent in my 15 10degree and 5 of my 10 4 degree for sharpening yesterday. I told resharp to replace any bad blades with 7 Turbos. I was going to get a box of 7 turbos, but realized I am not in a position to let my 10 degrees go unused. I imagine I will slowly phase all other blades out until I land at the blade for me, and as I learn which specialty blades I may need for certain jobs.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on April 19, 2019, 10:30:54 AM
Here is some of the oak from my first job. I was cutting with 4 degree blade, it was fresh blade too. I tried changing speed, but no joy. Anyone have some advice?

-Mike


(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51882/2019-04-07_05_34_53.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1555684215)
 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Southside on April 19, 2019, 10:39:18 AM
The stringy fibers on the edge of the board?  Yea, you will see that, happens with poplar a fair bit, had some pine do that the other day.  I suspect it has something to do with the age of the log and the time of year it was felled as to how brittle the fibers are.  On big band saws (like the 10" monsters you see) there are a back set of "teeth" that actually break those fibers off so that almost never happens.  

Oh - and as far as advice goes - get rid of the hex bolts holding your rollers onto the back stops and replace them with carriage bolts, your new bands will thank you for that.   ;D
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: WV Sawmiller on April 19, 2019, 11:12:08 AM
Here is some of the oak from my first job. I was cutting with 4 degree blade, it was fresh blade too. I tried changing speed, but no joy. Anyone have some advice?
-Mike

(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51882/2019-04-07_05_34_53.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1555684215)
 
Grasshopper,

   The scrolls of antiquity often contain pearls of wisdom that you my find apply to the trials of the present. I.e. Here is a thread addressing the strings left behind when sawing certain woods. Some woods are worse than others but they sneak into others when the conditions are right. 
   http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=96001.0 (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=96001.0)
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Magicman on April 19, 2019, 02:37:46 PM
Be very sure that you have the correct tension on your drive belt.  It can slip which slows the blade down and you may not be aware of it.  The blade slowing down will cause waves.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on April 19, 2019, 05:21:45 PM
SS.... yes, grasshopper failed to hearken to master's advice about 20 pages ago... and on his first job... hit the dreaded hex bolt  :(... He will try to make you proud and his blades happy, by getting this done asap.  :D

WV Sawmiller, indeed the scrolls of antiquity can contain wisdom and I thank you for bringing these out of the deep mines of mordor. 

Magicman, drive belt tension is of concern to me. I did purchase the tension gauge and it is dead on as far as I can tell. However, it is not overly impressive the amount of tension. I would think it should be a little tighter; but, WM engineers certainly know more than my imagination. 

On a sharing note for other new guys, I am slowly working through the following two threads and if there are any MASTER threads that are recommended by the Jedi Knights, please do share the precious.

A Day Cutting Wood (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=58063.60)

and 

General Sawing Tips for Portable Sawyers (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=100326.80)
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on April 19, 2019, 05:27:13 PM
Reference waves, I was sawing some trim for my son earlier and since it was a 3.5" wide cant of pine, I tried FULL SPEED ahead. All was straight and true 4 degree blade; but, I did notice when a significant knot was present North bound deflection of 3/16" occurred. After pulling the board, I went back and cut the same height... SLOWLY, and it repaired the hump. How do youu men deal with sawing for production and dealing with this sort of drama. Of course, of you little/no knots, it may be a non issue; but, what do you do when it does exist: 

Go slow period?
Go slow, when you see knots approaching?
Whatever it takes, meaning both of the above?
Other?
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Southside on April 19, 2019, 05:33:17 PM
On your drive belt tension, DO NOT exceed the specs or you will break the crank on your Kohler. Set property that tension is plenty adequate for anything you have torque enough to saw. The bigger mills have a triple belt and a secondary crank support bearing to address the additional lateral torsion the engine experiences as a result. Before those support kits came out more than a few cranks were broken. 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Magicman on April 19, 2019, 05:43:12 PM
No one can describe the proper sawing speed for you.  That is something that you will have to determine for yourself depending upon the log species, blade sharpness, engine speed/sound, and whatever else.  Don't try to make it happen, but rather let it happen.  Relax.  :)
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: btulloh on April 19, 2019, 06:16:41 PM
No one can describe the proper sawing speed for you.  That is something that you will have to determine for yourself depending upon the log species, blade sharpness, engine speed/sound, and whatever else.  Don't try to make it happen, but rather let it happen.  Relax.  :)

X2 on that.

Can you push an lt35 or does it have use the power feed?  Using a pushmill gives you a lot of feedback. Iíd love to have powerfeed, but pushing my mill has taught me a lot about logs and knots. And backstops.

Iíd also be glad to switch over to power feed and hydraulics now, but Iím convinced pushing is a good thing at first. 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: WV Sawmiller on April 19, 2019, 08:12:02 PM
   I have the power feed on my LT 35 but walk with it and you can feel when it wants to slow down or go faster and adjust accordingly. I don't know how those passengers riding up in the first class seats notice the difference. :D
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: LeeB on April 20, 2019, 02:06:57 AM
I have to agree about being able to feel the mill with power feed. I push lightly on the control console as I'm making a cut and can feel if the mill slows down or speeds up. Kinda like power brakes on your vehicle. You develop a feel for it.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: btulloh on April 20, 2019, 08:08:13 AM
Seems like the bottom line is "develop a feel for it".  Push or power feed or whatever.  Saw logs and let it happen.

I like to saw junky stuff into dunnage.  SYP tops with a lot of knots is good practice because the knots are so much harder than the wood.  Can't ever have too much dunnage.  Seems like I've learned more from funky logs than from perfect logs.  

Grasshopper is doing well and also built a nice debarker.  Did you put a flashing light or a backup alarm on your debarker?
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: YellowHammer on April 20, 2019, 09:03:36 AM
In the classic style Ku Fu/Yoda approach of asking questions to develop answers about sawing speed....

How do you know when your car is driving uphill?  How do you know when you are going down a hill?  How do you know when your lawn mower is going through deep grass?  How do you know when your weed eater hits a pile of fresh dog poop?  

Itís all about feel.   
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Southside on April 20, 2019, 09:56:22 AM
How do you know when your weed eater hits a pile of fresh dog poop?


Hammer - you seem to have issues with poop around your place.  First the board, now the weed eater....:D
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: WV Sawmiller on April 20, 2019, 11:47:41 AM
   Its probably elephant poo from all those pink pachyderms he roots for. :D
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: YellowHammer on April 20, 2019, 03:45:22 PM
Animal residue is common here at the farm. We got rid of our chickens because they liked to roost on the boards and leave presents for the customers. 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: btulloh on April 20, 2019, 04:14:43 PM
81% of all topics get around to this subject eventually.  
:D :D :D
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: WV Sawmiller on April 20, 2019, 04:36:32 PM
B,

   I think I read somewhere 86% of all statistical figures are just made up on the spot. :D
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: btulloh on April 20, 2019, 04:50:41 PM
I expect youíre right about that.

And the remainder are based on inaccurate data.

But avoiding round numbers make them more believable.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on April 20, 2019, 05:19:37 PM
Excellent. Thank you gents. I will see if I can feel the slowing down and keep an eye out on results as I saw. 

Btulloh, I am adding the following to the debarker: 

YH, your point is well taken. When one is taking in so much info, it can be hard to think clearly at times. Confidence will come with competence. 

-Mike


Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Southside on April 20, 2019, 05:53:05 PM
I expect youíre right about that.

And the remainder are based on inaccurate data.

But avoiding round numbers make them more believable.
Don't forget to add "studies show" to increase varasity.  :D
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: terrifictimbersllc on April 20, 2019, 05:56:40 PM
81% of all topics get around to this subject eventually.  
:D :D :D
Its what happens if you're not quick enough to talk about food.  :)
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: btulloh on April 20, 2019, 07:03:03 PM
81% of all topics get around to this subject eventually.  
:D :D :D
Its what happens if you're not quick enough to talk about food.  :)
:D :D :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: btulloh on April 20, 2019, 07:13:28 PM
Mike, you're quite the fabricator and getting up to speed pretty quick on that sawing thing.  It's been fun watching your thread and I'm looking forward to your future posts.  Maybe you can work some food references in at some point. 

I'm anxious to see your improvements on the debarker.  I vote the flashing light, by the way.  Seems like a good idea to have some attention getter on the thing, but who would want all that beeping?  

Good luck and keep up the good work.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: YellowHammer on April 20, 2019, 11:09:59 PM
I think with 99.87342% certainty MikeySP is getting the hang of this stuff.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: woodweasel on April 21, 2019, 06:40:13 PM
 You have a great plan.Fire it up and start cutting ;D.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on April 26, 2019, 11:44:53 AM
Very good. 

Sawing shed question:

@WV Sawmiller (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=28064) I see your dimensions for your sawmilling shed barn is 3 Roughly 20' wide bays, 12' deep and 12'-15' high. Would you change any dimensions?

You other men with sawing sheds, do you have any recommendations on details, size?

-Mike
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: WV Sawmiller on April 26, 2019, 12:35:00 PM
   I'd make it bigger if I had the room. I like the 20' bays and the 12'-15' height. I ended up building the shelves along each of the back, end and internal partition walls for extra, long term storage. I can only access mostly from the front. I'd love to be able to access with my tractor from both sides but that would require way more flat land than I have here and it would also require a peaked instead of a slanted roof. The peaked roof would not be difficult to make. I keep thinking about making a mirror image on the other side but that would restrict other access. 

   I'd say any storage building needs to accommodate your needs but has to fit on available real estate. Good luck.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Southside on April 26, 2019, 03:01:39 PM
No matter how big you built it, it will be too small. If possible try to build with expansion in mind so you don't end up with a bunch of strange additions down the road. 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on May 15, 2019, 09:36:08 PM
Howdy Gents. Friday morning I am going to saw up the larger of these Cedar into live edge siding. Do you have any advice for sawing Cedar as I have not done that before.


(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51882/Cedar.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1557970551)
 

Thank you.

-Mike
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: doc henderson on May 15, 2019, 09:57:40 PM
as you can see, it tends to be lobulated at the butt of the log. the lobes will have bark inclusions and create a way for water to get in.  if it is for rustic go for it.  the heart wood is the rot resistant portion.  you can sorta plan the boards based on the plans if you have them or just get what you can and the builder can make it work.  I think 1/2 inch flat sawn is ok if you put a starter board to begin the angle.  but ewith live edge the variation and make it require more overlap.  if it is fresh sawn I would use a soap/lube solution with dawn and or pine-sol.  I have sawn a bunch dry as well.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Southside on May 15, 2019, 10:57:25 PM
Watch your outlet chute, the fingers are going to catch the bark and sawdust will begin to pack in the wheel covers.  When you don't see it coming out of the chute, stop and clear off the fingers.  
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: doc henderson on May 16, 2019, 09:42:51 AM
for uber rustic, you can leave the lumber tapered as it is in the tree and alternate orientation end for end as you hang it.  or (less rustic) develop a U shaped cant.  2 parallel sides that will be the faces and backs of the siding.  the "bottom" of the U is the top edge of the siding. the open top of the U is the live edge. when you cut this, (bottom of the U)you can let the live edge rest flat on the bed of the mill, and cut parallel to the live edge.  you can now orient the "bottom" of the U to the hooks and now just flat saw through the cant.  you can try to make a uniform size, say 8 inch siding with a 2 inch over lap for a 6 inch reveal.  If you have a starter strip at the bottom, maybe 2 inches wide, you do not need to rotate the cant to make tapered siding boards.  It is hung like concrete siding boards.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on May 16, 2019, 12:24:36 PM
Thanks gents!

I guess the previous owner of my LT35 must have been putout by the safety fingers in the shoot, because they do not exist on my sawmill. 

The owner of the logs wants both edges live, so I assume he intends to appose the ends. Not sure how he plans to deal with whitewood... maybe a water reppellent such as would be used on pine or some other lap siding. 

-Mike
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: doc henderson on May 16, 2019, 12:40:44 PM
the white wood is not as resistant as the heartwood, but if not in contact with soil and water it should do fine.  a clear water proof could be sprayed  with a garden sprayer much like a deck 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: MikeySP on May 16, 2019, 01:27:57 PM
Excellent. Thanks Doc.

Forgot to ask, if you were selecting between 4 and 10 degree blades, which would you use?

I have lots of 10, so I would like to use them, but not if they will be problematic.

I have 1 Turbo 7, but I am waiting to use it on a specific log for testing it out, so I won't use it on these cedars. 
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: WV Sawmiller on May 16, 2019, 03:29:54 PM
   My limited experience with cedar is it is very soft and you should be fine with the 10 degree blades. I personally am phasing out my 7 & 10 degree blades and replacing them over time with 4 degree which, for me, works with everything.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: doc henderson on May 16, 2019, 04:14:30 PM
I use 7 degree on most everything.  if you got 10 s to spare give them a try.  look to see if there is pitch at the junction of heartwood and the sap wood, if so I would use a lube/soap or check you  blade freq. to see if you need it or if you need more in terms of volume or concentration.  there is silica in the bark and wood so follow blade sharpness.  I could saw it all day long.  caution with folks with allergy (usually woodworkers who have been around it for years and developed sensitivity) or asthma inhaling the dust.  I love the grain and like an ink blot test, can see animals and other characters in the grain patterns.   @Southside (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=24297)   and @YellowHammer (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=11488)  always see chickens... not sure what that means!   8)  remember to share some pics.  Your job is easier if you have a client and they are directing how they want the wood sawed.  and that responsibility is off your back.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: btulloh on May 16, 2019, 04:21:10 PM
Iíve used10ís on ERC with no problem. You may want slow down a bit when approaching knots or nubs to avoid a wave. Same for insulators and fence wire.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Magicman on May 16, 2019, 05:10:48 PM
For me, 10į blades were near prefect for sawing ERC, but I have phased them all out and only use Turbo 7į blades now.  I do still have some 4į blades, but after the success that I had with T7's on White and Post Oak, I doubt that the 4's will ever be used.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: YellowHammer on May 16, 2019, 11:28:22 PM
Sawing cedar is fine, easy as can be.  Lots of inclusions and wane, though, so high grade yield can be lower than expected.  
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: woodweasel on May 17, 2019, 12:13:03 PM
fire it up, start cutting 8) 8) ;D ;D
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Banjo picker on May 24, 2019, 11:05:27 PM
Thanks gents!

I guess the previous owner of my LT35 must have been putout by the safety fingers in the shoot, because they do not exist on my sawmill.


Make sure no one ever gets around that exit area. I have had them come out the shoot and even had the fingers as they are being called bent by a blade trying to get out.
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18028/Band_saw_broke_blade_exits_mill.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1409509527)
  I know you have a different mill, but the resusts can be the same.  Not a good place to be even with the safety fingers installed.  Banjo
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Magicman on May 25, 2019, 08:24:57 AM
 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/2410/DSCN0291.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1267041250)
 
Absolutely, I only have one finger missing and they can/will still exit the sawdust chute.

(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/IMG_0562.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1462745283)
 
Another.

(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/IMG_1244.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1474590409)

And this one decided to make it's own exit hole!   :o

(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/IMG_1245.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1474590344)
 
Glad that no one was standing there.
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: doc henderson on May 25, 2019, 12:47:15 PM
i always keep people from that side of the mill, but a picture is worth a thousand words.  @Magicman (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=10011) glad to hear you only have "1 finger missing" !   :o   :D :D :D
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: Magicman on May 25, 2019, 12:56:34 PM
I need to take better care of myself.  ::)
Title: Re: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.
Post by: WDH on May 25, 2019, 08:19:52 PM
That might not be all that is missing :D.