The Forestry Forum

General Forestry => Ask The Forester => Topic started by: Les Stewart on May 04, 2019, 10:11:28 AM

Title: how do I start to learn about the value of trees on my farm?
Post by: Les Stewart on May 04, 2019, 10:11:28 AM
How do I start to learn about the value of my trees on the farm, in Ontario, Canada. 

Sorry, I am sure the answer is here somewhere, but I can't find and would appreciate a long-term member's help.

I have a family 100-acre farm that is half woodlot. How do I go about finding out what the trees are worth?  

Someone came to us and said that we have 60 good white ash trees and offered $2000 (CAD). for them.  We also planted 30,000 white pines 40 years ago, and I'm looking to harvest some. 

There are not many people around for me to get multiple quotes to see that is fair and reasonable. 

Q: How do I find out standard prices for the logs?

I have searched online, but I must not be using the correct search keywords.

Any insights to helping me learn would be appreciated. 
Title: Re: how do I start to learn about the value of trees on my farm?
Post by: Southside on May 04, 2019, 10:40:16 AM
You would do well to search for a consulting forester that you could hire to help you with those questions.  You want a forester who works for you, not one who is working in a procurement role for a buyer, they will give you the good, the bad, and the ugly about what you have there, what the market is, what management options exist, etc.  

Hiring a consulting forester should be like hiring any professional, lawyer, surveyor, etc.  Do your research, speak with several, and find one that you are comfortable working with.  In the end the money you pay to the consultant will be less than the additional value you receive from your land, so it's well spent.  
Title: Re: how do I start to learn about the value of trees on my farm?
Post by: thecfarm on May 04, 2019, 01:24:33 PM
Les,welcome to the forum. Trees are hard to price without seeing them. Follow Southside advice. You will hear the stories from some how they had their land cut and made small fortune. Sell to this mill and make money. Hard to say that without seeing the trees.  ::) I've heard many stories when I had my land cut,3 times so far. Some people have all the answers.  ??? 
Title: Re: how do I start to learn about the value of trees on my farm?
Post by: ID4ster on May 04, 2019, 06:35:29 PM
Why do you need to know the value? Do you need to know it for estate planning, property tax purposes, forest management decisions or salvage purposes? Several factors go into determining the value of the timber. Size, quality, density, type of ground that it's on, distance from a mill that processes your species of timber, time of season, forest practice laws and right of way issues. There are simply too many variables to tell you what it's worth from cyberspace. You need to contact someone that knows the markets, taxes and players in your area. As mentioned, that will be a private Consultant Forester. The biggest mistake I see is from folks that think they can do this on their own or are seduced by the first offer of money that comes along. If you want to keep the property in your family for the long term then you'll be better off determining the value of your timber in conjunction with your objectives and a written forest management plan. Sounds expensive? Not if you're interested in building your wealth. Good luck, welcome to the forum and don't be afraid to ask more questions.    
Title: Re: how do I start to learn about the value of trees on my farm?
Post by: Les Stewart on May 09, 2019, 09:59:41 AM
thank you everyone for the welcome to the forum! Appreciated!

Ive appreciated the advice: I have tried twice to engage professional help. People say they will come the next time they are in the area, but both times no one shows.  And now someone shows up and makes an offer. (This person was just walking around on our property, I guess).  

anyone in the forum from SW ontario? Advice on a professional to guide us?

Good question re: why?  1)  to sell the ash before they die from disease, so far it hasn't hit us. 
and 2) the white pine bush needs thinning, and some trees harvested.  -it seems it might be time to cull some as they were planted in 1979.

If the income is $2000 for 60 ash trees, to pay a professional to come will reduce this minimal profit, non?

If 60 trees = $2000 it seems that there is not much money in tree farming! 
Is there a place that I can look up what ash logs are worth in Ontario, Canada?
Title: Re: how do I start to learn about the value of trees on my farm?
Post by: Bandmill Bandit on May 09, 2019, 10:20:47 AM
Get in contact with the Ontario Woodlot Association. They are an organization of woodlot owners in the province. 
https://www.ontariowoodlot.com/woodlot-marketplace (https://www.ontariowoodlot.com/woodlot-marketplace)

And Ontario Forestry which is a division of the ministry of the Natural Resources and Forestry.
https://www.ontario.ca/page/forestry (https://www.ontario.ca/page/forestry)

That  should set you on the right track.

Title: Re: how do I start to learn about the value of trees on my farm?
Post by: OntarioAl on May 09, 2019, 07:51:41 PM
Les
Very good advice
I will offer several more
1/ What County are you in some Ontario Counties have regulations dealing with harvesting.
2/The fees you receive are not "found money" you will have to declare some of it as income you will need the advice of an accountant familiar with timber sales
3/ This chap that offered you $2000 for 60 ash trees it is highly unlikely he stood on the county road and saw your timber, it is as you suspect he trespassed and broke the law on your land and conveniently forgot to mention Black Walnut, Black Cherry, White Oak,  Red Oak, Sugar Maple and Red Maple.
To me this sets off the red lights he has crooked written all over. Put the Bums rush on him.
Follow the links provided by Sawmill Bandit hire a competent Forester who should cruise your woodlot and write up a management plan tailored towards your goals .
Cheers
Al
Title: Re: how do I start to learn about the value of trees on my farm?
Post by: Ron Scott on May 12, 2019, 10:26:46 PM
Yes, follow the advice given to seek out the services of a professional consulting forester serving your area to determine the volume and value of the timber on your 50 acre farm woodlot.
Title: Re: how do I start to learn about the value of trees on my farm?
Post by: alan gage on May 15, 2019, 12:26:30 PM


If the income is $2000 for 60 ash trees, to pay a professional to come will reduce this minimal profit, non?

But if the income should be $6000 for those 60 ash trees the money paid to a professional would result in maximum profit.
Alan
Title: Re: how do I start to learn about the value of trees on my farm?
Post by: Les Stewart on June 13, 2019, 02:13:25 PM
3/ This chap that offered you $2000 for 60 ash trees it is highly unlikely he stood on the county road and saw your timber, it is as you suspect he trespassed and broke the law on your land and conveniently forgot to mention Black Walnut, Black Cherry, White Oak,  Red Oak, Sugar Maple and Red Maple.
To me this sets off the red lights he has crooked written all over. Put the Bums rush on him.
Follow the links provided by Sawmill Bandit hire a competent Forester who should cruise your woodlot and write up a management plan tailored towards your goals .
Cheers
Al
 would you say this is NOT common practice is very rural small town areas? 
Title: Re: how do I start to learn about the value of trees on my farm?
Post by: Les Stewart on June 13, 2019, 02:14:27 PM
Get in contact with the Ontario Woodlot Association. They are an organization of woodlot owners in the province.
https://www.ontariowoodlot.com/woodlot-marketplace (https://www.ontariowoodlot.com/woodlot-marketplace)

And Ontario Forestry which is a division of the ministry of the Natural Resources and Forestry.
https://www.ontario.ca/page/forestry (https://www.ontario.ca/page/forestry)
thank you! I would "like" this - but I don't see the "like" button!