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General Forestry => Sawmills and Milling => Topic started by: POSTON WIDEHEAD on July 20, 2013, 09:32:43 PM

Title: Sawing my first 21 foot beams.
Post by: POSTON WIDEHEAD on July 20, 2013, 09:32:43 PM
I've got a customer who brought in 5, 22 foot logs....today. They were old Pine, crooked and the bark falling off.
He wants 21 foot beams to go in his new house.

Now get this.....he wants his beams 3" x 5" x 21 feet.  :o

After a long talk, I convinced him his logs were to small in diameter and too crooked to saw.

So off to the woods I go and get 5, 22 foot logs (I fell them) and bring them to the mill.
I'm telling this guy, this 3 x 5 x 21 green beam will most likely crown or sag at this span. So he said he would put some legs under it while the beam dried.

Ok.....I did my best and this is now his problem.

Now my problem.....getting a 22 foot beam through a 13 foot door.  >:(  I did it.....after a while with my trusty backhoe.
Now, I get the log on the mill and low and behold I find out I can't saw a 22 foot log log.
So I saw the length down to 21'-1". Now I find out I still can't saw it.
So I take the rubber bumpers off.....and get the log just right and it will saw it now but JUST barely.

Now....I was under the impression I could saw at least a 21 footer without taking the bumpers off......but I guess I was wrong. But it is no big deal. I'm sawing 21 foot beams now and have 4 more to do.
So I guess all is well as long as I remember where I laid my bumpers.  :)

In the last pic, you will see where the head stops and the blade teeth just barely make it through.
I can promise you this job is paying good.....but it's a little tough when you're by yourself.

 

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/24625/IMG_1562.JPG) 

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/24625/IMG_1563.JPG) 

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/24625/IMG_1564.JPG)
Title: Re: Sawing my first 21 foot beams.
Post by: YellowHammer on July 20, 2013, 11:16:48 PM
Great job, sounds like you had a full day. 8)
YH
Title: Re: Sawing my first 21 foot beams.
Post by: Brucer on July 21, 2013, 02:14:58 AM
My first mill was 21'-0" from "tooth to tooth". In other words, the teeth are touching the end of the log where I start, and just get to the end when I finish, but the blade doesn't clear the end of the log.

My present mill was 21'-1/8" (before I added extensions).

Taking the front bumper off helps, but watch you don't sheer off that Nylon bolt that holds the contact strip in place -- the shoe will hit it if you bang the carriage into the bumper bracket. You can also pick up an extra inch or two if you take off the back bumper AND add a couple of links of drive chain so you can pull the chain adjuster back a little.
Title: Re: Sawing my first 21 foot beams.
Post by: slider on July 21, 2013, 08:13:59 AM
David Customsawyer taught me the best way around the overhang problem.If it's much overhang support it.When you get almost to the end of your track just hit the up leaver and continue sawing out of the cut.Finish 3 sides before you move the cant.I'm assuming you have roller toe boards.Good luck.
Title: Re: Sawing my first 21 foot beams.
Post by: Peter Drouin on July 21, 2013, 08:19:59 AM
David Customsawyer taught me the best way around the overhang problem.If it's much overhang support it.When you get almost to the end of your track just hit the up leaver and continue sawing out of the cut.Finish 3 sides before you move the cant.I'm assuming you have roller toe boards.Good luck.

 smiley_thumbsup
Title: Re: Sawing my first 21 foot beams.
Post by: Magicman on July 21, 2013, 08:23:17 AM
Looks like you met the challenge OK.  Congrats on the job.   smiley_thumbsup
Title: Re: Sawing my first 21 foot beams.
Post by: bugdust on July 21, 2013, 08:51:03 AM
Nothing like a real challenge. Did I not read an earlier post that someone mentioned sawing on raised toe boards and pushing the log back to the front (actually pushing the log through the blade)? Since I have never sawed a 21'er I assumed that was the actual distance from bumper to bumper. Guess that's what I get for "summin".   :-\
Title: Re: Sawing my first 21 foot beams.
Post by: GDinMaine on July 21, 2013, 09:05:30 AM
Glad you posted that.  I didn't think it would not be quite that much pain to saw a 21' log, but I guess you have to cap the capacity somewhere when designing a machine. Needless to say I never sawed anything that long.
Title: Re: Sawing my first 21 foot beams.
Post by: rmack on July 21, 2013, 09:17:14 AM
Glad you posted that.  I didn't think it would not be quite that much pain to saw a 21' log, but I guess you have to cap the capacity somewhere when designing a machine. Needless to say I never sawed anything that long.

just a guess, it's probably designed to cut 20' lumber with some room to spare.  :)
Title: Re: Sawing my first 21 foot beams.
Post by: POSTON WIDEHEAD on July 21, 2013, 10:29:40 AM
Yes Slider I do have the roller toe boards and thank goodness for that. Even then trying to roll a 21 foot log can make you scratch your head if a knot has to roll across the roller.
I would not have taken this job, just because of my shed set up but the customer could not find anyone else with a band mill to do it.
At least I've learned a few things with out tearing something up.....yet!  :D
Title: Re: Sawing my first 21 foot beams.
Post by: Chuck White on July 21, 2013, 10:35:57 AM
My first mill was 21'-0" from "tooth to tooth". In other words, the teeth are touching the end of the log where I start, and just get to the end when I finish, but the blade doesn't clear the end of the log.


Same here, when my sawhead is at the front of the mill, I can mark where the teeth are and then run the sawhead to the other end and the teeth have a total travel of just over 21', maybe by a quarter inch.

However the body of the blade is still "in the log".
Title: Re: Sawing my first 21 foot beams.
Post by: Sixacresand on July 21, 2013, 10:41:05 AM
I did some by putting the log on skids to allow the log to be moved back and forth on the mill bed on the same plane. It was hard work, required moving the log up and back on each cut.  If it was a regular thing, I would just add on another bed extension. 
Title: Re: Sawing my first 21 foot beams.
Post by: POSTON WIDEHEAD on July 21, 2013, 10:47:37 AM
...... when my sawhead is at the front of the mill, I can mark where the teeth are and then run the sawhead to the other end and the teeth have a total travel of just over 21', maybe by a quarter inch.

However the body of the blade is still "in the log".

This is correct Chuck.
Title: Re: Sawing my first 21 foot beams.
Post by: drobertson on July 21, 2013, 10:58:42 AM
Nice work David, lots of haggling and fanaggling for sure, good job man,  david
Title: Re: Sawing my first 21 foot beams.
Post by: Martha White Nelson on July 21, 2013, 11:25:11 AM
Nice job!!!  Lots involved in that project.  Have a great day!!!
Title: Re: Sawing my first 21 foot beams.
Post by: GDinMaine on July 21, 2013, 11:59:16 AM
Glad you posted that.  I didn't think it would not be quite that much pain to saw a 21' log, but I guess you have to cap the capacity somewhere when designing a machine. Needless to say I never sawed anything that long.

just a guess, it's probably designed to cut 20' lumber with some room to spare.  :)

Actually in the booklet they say maximum log length 21'.  I guess they really mean that.
Title: Re: Sawing my first 21 foot beams.
Post by: GAB on July 21, 2013, 08:55:09 PM
On my business card I claim I can do 20'-6" with the mill and 26'-6" with the 6' extension bed.  I have done 20'-8" but it was very tight.  Not I did not remove the bumpers.
When sawing timbers that long plan on supporting the ends or it could droop, and if you take pride in your work, you will not be happy as thick and thin will come into play.  Gerald
Title: Re: Sawing my first 21 foot beams.
Post by: Sheepkeeper on July 21, 2013, 09:04:42 PM
Last summer I sawed out two 5" x 11" x 21' ash wagon sills to replace the ones that broke. Careful placement of the log and square cut ends are essential. Also having your Wheaties for breakfast.  ;D I may have to cut 4 more plus deck boards this summer for 2 more hay wagons.
Title: Re: Sawing my first 21 foot beams.
Post by: WoodenHead on July 21, 2013, 09:06:30 PM
I was asked a couple months ago to cut some 6" x 6" Eastern White Cedar timbers 22' long.  The customer wanted six of them at least 22'.  Finding them that long was the hard part.  My father has a cedar bush that hasn't been cut in the last 50 years so I found the six trees I needed (about 150 years old).  One of them was 9" across at 25'.  That's quite good for cedar in these parts.

From what I am reading, I think I used a slightly different method.  I cut as far as the mill would cut.  Then I stopped and backed up the head a foot or so (with wedges under the slab) and cut the slab off with a chainsaw.  This left me with a couple feet of uncut log.  Leaving that I would then rotate 180 degrees and do the same.  Then I would pull the log back, finish the last couple feet, rotate 180 degrees and finish the last couple feet.  Rotate 90 degrees and repeat the process again.  I did this so that I would always have a flat side sliding back on the deck.  Admittedly cedar is reasonably light and in this case small diameter.  I'm not sure how I would handle things if the log was larger diameter.
Title: Re: Sawing my first 21 foot beams.
Post by: hackberry jake on July 21, 2013, 09:36:11 PM
The max on my mill is 22'7" if the log isnt very wide. Since my head is angled, I lose distance with width. With a 16" square my max would probably be around 22'2"
Title: Re: Sawing my first 21 foot beams.
Post by: clww on July 22, 2013, 08:44:13 AM
Great work, David! 8)
Title: Re: Sawing my first 21 foot beams.
Post by: Stephen1 on July 22, 2013, 08:58:40 AM
Great job, goes to show where this a $...there is a way. 8)
Title: Re: Sawing my first 21 foot beams.
Post by: Dave Shepard on July 22, 2013, 09:06:09 AM
I was asked a couple months ago to cut some 6" x 6" Eastern White Cedar timbers 22' long.  The customer wanted six of them at least 22'.  Finding them that long was the hard part.  My father has a cedar bush that hasn't been cut in the last 50 years so I found the six trees I needed (about 150 years old).  One of them was 9" across at 25'.  That's quite good for cedar in these parts.

From what I am reading, I think I used a slightly different method.  I cut as far as the mill would cut.  Then I stopped and backed up the head a foot or so (with wedges under the slab) and cut the slab off with a chainsaw.  This left me with a couple feet of uncut log.  Leaving that I would then rotate 180 degrees and do the same.  Then I would pull the log back, finish the last couple feet, rotate 180 degrees and finish the last couple feet.  Rotate 90 degrees and repeat the process again.  I did this so that I would always have a flat side sliding back on the deck.  Admittedly cedar is reasonably light and in this case small diameter.  I'm not sure how I would handle things if the log was larger diameter.

That is exactly how I did my 47' timbers. You can only saw 45' with the 24' extension.

 

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14240/1621/DSC_0962.JPG)
Title: Re: Sawing my first 21 foot beams.
Post by: Qweaver on August 01, 2018, 04:11:36 PM
Jobs like this are about the only time that I really like my Peterson.  30'+.
Title: Re: Sawing my first 21 foot beams.
Post by: POSTON WIDEHEAD on August 01, 2018, 09:13:37 PM
Iíd like to see a Peterson saw in person.
Iíll bet itís fun!
Title: Re: Sawing my first 21 foot beams.
Post by: Southside logger on August 01, 2018, 09:56:35 PM
I did some 3 x 5 - 20' and 28' pine a couple weeks ago. NEVER going to do that again without an extension. Got them done, but did not charge near enough for the job. 
Title: Re: Sawing my first 21 foot beams.
Post by: Peter Drouin on August 01, 2018, 10:01:07 PM
Everyone has a first 20' log, Good job.
Title: Re: Sawing my first 21 foot beams.
Post by: Dave Shepard on August 01, 2018, 11:54:45 PM
I'm looking for my first 60'   ;D
Title: Re: Sawing my first 21 foot beams.
Post by: ljohnsaw on August 02, 2018, 01:23:03 AM
I'll be doing five 56' beams soon.  Two 8x12 and three 8x15.
Title: Re: Sawing my first 21 foot beams.
Post by: Don P on August 02, 2018, 07:37:06 AM
 My first 60' :D

(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10017/60beam.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1497311312)
 
Title: Re: Sawing my first 21 foot beams.
Post by: GAB on August 08, 2018, 11:33:35 AM
Glad you posted that.  I didn't think it would not be quite that much pain to saw a 21' log, but I guess you have to cap the capacity somewhere when designing a machine. Needless to say I never sawed anything that long.

just a guess, it's probably designed to cut 20' lumber with some room to spare.  :)
Yes with some trim allowance.
GAB
Title: Re: Sawing my first 21 foot beams.
Post by: Leigh Family Farm on August 08, 2018, 01:51:25 PM
@POSTON WIDEHEAD (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=14625) - Instead of trying to get the 21' log through a 13' door, why didn't you move the mill outside? 

Either way, great job on gettin' 'er done! 
Title: Re: Sawing my first 21 foot beams.
Post by: terrifictimbersllc on August 08, 2018, 06:00:36 PM
Jobs like this are about the only time that I really like my Peterson.  30'+.

Once it's all set up it is quite amazing, I agree.  As long as the customer can remove the 30 ft 8x10!!
I've had some jobs like that.

I've also had some emails where I ask whether you can remove the 8x10 after I saw it.  No answer. 
Title: Re: Sawing my first 21 foot beams.
Post by: PAmizerman on August 08, 2018, 06:29:00 PM
What in the world is a 60' beam used for?
You can't span that far so why such a long beam?
Title: Re: Sawing my first 21 foot beams.
Post by: ljohnsaw on August 08, 2018, 07:42:24 PM
In my case (56') I'm doing it for the challenge ::)  I have my ridge, 2 mid-span and 2 wall beams that run the length of my cabin, spanning 4 bays.  They are all visible when done.  I do have my plans drawn with them spliced halfway.  But, I've got some trees and a mill that should do it.  I'll start with the biggest and if the cuts go wonky, I can trim it down.  Worst case, I have to splice two for the length like the plan says.  If I can pull it off, people will look up 38' to the ridge and say, how the heck did you do that?
Title: Re: Sawing my first 21 foot beams.
Post by: Don P on August 09, 2018, 12:07:48 AM
 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10017/1st60b.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1498777195)

That's the first 60' 12x12 across the top backside of the 2 log cribs. We made another for this near side. There were 4 cross beams mortise and tenoned in between to make a rigid flat frame to tie everything together and launch the roofs from. The beam was sized for 20' spans, which are its bearing points. There are 3 other similar length runs of beams in the barn that are scarfed. Finding a tree big enough is a small part of the problem! We 3 sided them in the woods, lightening them but leaving them strong, then did the last rip at the barn. We pushed the third rip off of one in the woods and I could have laid my arm in the rotten spot. We used it for smaller stuff but that was a bad day. All the logs below are slabbed on 2 sides, they are 20 and 30'. The short ones we did on the Lucas the longer stuff was with the Alaskan. By hopping that straight plank down the tree there is really no limit to length.


Edit, here's another shot. Both 60'ers are in up top, the straps pulling the cross beam joinery together are showing. The lower run of beams is scarfed, there is a ~20'and40' in those plates.

 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10017/1stshed.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1500418378)
Title: Re: Sawing my first 21 foot beams.
Post by: carykong on August 09, 2018, 02:23:00 AM
Wax your bunks
Title: Re: Sawing my first 21 foot beams.
Post by: OffGrid973 on August 09, 2018, 03:04:28 AM
Great answer for what you do with a 60í.

I have to mention my first 22í pine with plenty of rails for my LT-10 went smooth and then I marveled in the length...then cut in half and put on my trailer :)

Always good to focus on the entire job when taking big logs...ha ha

Great job!
-chris 
Title: Re: Sawing my first 21 foot beams.
Post by: Bindian on August 09, 2018, 08:39:56 PM

That's the first 60' 12x12 across the top backside of the 2 log cribs. We made another for this near side. There were 4 cross beams mortise and tenoned in between to make a rigid flat frame to tie everything together and launch the roofs from. The beam was sized for 20' spans, which are its bearing points. There are 3 other similar length runs of beams in the barn that are scarfed. Finding a tree big enough is a small part of the problem! We 3 sided them in the woods, lightening them but leaving them strong, then did the last rip at the barn. We pushed the third rip off of one in the woods and I could have laid my arm in the rotten spot. We used it for smaller stuff but that was a bad day. All the logs below are slabbed on 2 sides, they are 20 and 30'. The short ones we did on the Lucas the longer stuff was with the Alaskan. By hopping that straight plank down the tree there is really no limit to length.


Edit, here's another shot. Both 60'ers are in up top, the straps pulling the cross beam joinery together are showing. The lower run of beams is scarfed, there is a ~20'and40' in those plates.

Don,
    Do you have a thread about this twin crib log build?  I would love to follow it if you did.
hugs,  Brandi
Title: Re: Sawing my first 21 foot beams.
Post by: Don P on August 09, 2018, 10:15:08 PM
Sure, I was getting ready to go find it and add a pic, hang on.
Here it is;
http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=96192.0 (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=96192.0)
Title: Re: Sawing my first 21 foot beams.
Post by: Quebecnewf on August 10, 2018, 05:47:57 AM
I did 2 beams of 25 ft X 8x8 on my mill . Mill is only designed for 16' . . I did my four cuts to get my 8x8 square. Cutting of the slabs with chain saw each time. I then moved the log back wards on the mill to get to tha last 9 ft round section . I placed 2" blocking on the bunks . This lifted the squared section up 2" and made sure the round uncut section was not touching the bunks. I then tapped a small wedge under the uncut end to take out any droop . Then made the last four cuts . Good to go . In theory  I could cut any length using this method . I have hatches on each end of my mill shed that let me pull long logs in through one end and out through the other .

Quebecnewf
Title: Re: Sawing my first 21 foot beams.
Post by: Andries on August 12, 2018, 11:18:10 PM
Where there's a will - there's a way.
I surprised though, Quebecnewf - you found logs that were 12" at the small end of a 25 footer, in your part of Canada ? 
Those trees must've been hiding from the logger for many decades!
8)