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Other topics for members => General Woodworking => Topic started by: SlowJoeCrow on June 08, 2017, 09:47:12 AM

Title: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: SlowJoeCrow on June 08, 2017, 09:47:12 AM
Well, I ordered a 3hp blower assembly from TimberKing/Woodmaster and it should arrive today.  My goal is to build/assemble a stationary cyclone dc for my 24 x 48 woodshop. I very quickly outgrew my little Jet DC-1100 dc.  It has been a great little dc but I am growing weary of moving it from machine to machine and I don't think it has enough muscle to perform well in a stationary setup for my needs.  My plan is to couple the Woodmaster blower with the Oneida Super Dust Deputy XL and a filter kit from Oneida as well.  I just picked up a nice heavy wall plastic barrel for the chip container.
(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44509/20170605_154818.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1496928956)

I am going to plumb the outlet of the blower so that I can vent outside in warm weather and switch to using the filter assembly in the wintertime.  I would love to blow chips and all outside, but my shop location doesn't enable that.  Building/assembling the unit myself instead of buying a complete cyclone unit from Oneida will save a minimum of $500, which will go a long ways buying ducting and fittings.  I plan on using Oneida for all the ducting - the 6" 26ga snaplock stuff.  That's my plan anyway, I will keep this post up to date with my progress.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: 1938farmall on June 08, 2017, 10:21:21 AM
I have 4 barrels like yours that just fit inside of a 4'x4'x8'h. box in a corner of my shop.  the chips are blown in the side of the box about 1' from the top & a 6" pipe goes out the top of the box, thru a wall, and into a filter bag in the garage.  the box acts like a cyclone.  with a 3hp blower it will handle a 15" planer & 8" jointer at the same time - and it's cheap :)
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: SlowJoeCrow on June 08, 2017, 10:09:18 PM
Well the blower arrived today, but it didn't fair well through the shipping process.  The box was beat to heck and the cord was damaged from the rough shipping.   No big deal but I will talk to them tomorrow about it.
(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44509/IMG95201706089513460856995HDR.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1496973182)

Here are some pictures of the blower itself.  I am impressed, it is quite heavy duty and weighs 130+ lbs. Cast aluminum impeller and housing.

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44509/20170608_203155.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1496973653)

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44509/Resized_20170608_203224001.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1496973687)

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44509/Resized_20170608_203211001.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1496973708)

The only thing that I see is the pipe flanges could have been a little longer, but they will work as is.  The flanges are roughly 1" long.  I powered it up briefly out of curiosity... this thing will suck the silly of out Sesame Street!!!  I am pleased so far and I think for the price it is a real bargain.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: Just Me on June 09, 2017, 07:12:05 AM
 I have a unit of that HP and I blow outside.  A word of caution with an aluminum blower. Be very careful about what gets sucked up there as they can break. I use mine for cleanup so I now have a steel unit.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: SlowJoeCrow on June 09, 2017, 08:07:25 PM
I appreciate the words of wisdom and will remember that.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: 21incher on June 09, 2017, 08:23:10 PM
That is a nice blower. With the aluminum blower and steel ducts you won't have to run all the pesky ground wires like I needed in my plastic pipe setup. Can't wait to see it all together. You going to go with the auto blast gates? :)
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: YellowHammer on June 09, 2017, 11:08:23 PM
I've got a 5hp Timberking. It's a good machine. 
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: SlowJoeCrow on June 10, 2017, 07:07:42 AM
Which auto blast gates would you recommend?  I wasn't planning on using automatic ones but you never know.

Yellowhammer, I have seen favorable things said from you and Bibbyman here on the forum - that helped convince me to buy this one.

My next step is to compile a parts list of ducting and fittings and get it ordered from Oneida.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: DDW_OR on June 10, 2017, 01:39:05 PM
following.

i plan to make one setup for my 16x32 shop, and sawmill and firewood processor.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: Delawhere Jack on June 11, 2017, 08:27:11 PM
I've got the little Dust Deputy and it works great. The collection barrel MUST be air tight. If there is any leakage of air, dust gets sucked past the cyclone. I'm using a blue plastic barrel similar to yours, but mine has a lid that is pressed on over a barbed lip on the drum, and has the locking ring. It was used for ground up jalapeno peppers for a big chain restaurant. I made a rubber gasket, plywood re-enforcing collar, and used RTV sealant to mount the cyclone on the lid. I can fill the barrel from the tablesaw or the planer and only have a half cup or so of dust in the shopvac.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: YellowHammer on June 12, 2017, 12:08:55 AM
following.

i plan to make one setup for my 16x32 shop, and sawmill and firewood processor.
I've got the one 5 hp serving my mill, the planer, the straight line rip saw and the chop saw.  Wr can run the outside sawmill and the inside shop tools concurrently, no problems.

I have the dust collector mounted outside under the roof eaves, up against the joists, to get it out of the way, kept from having piping major elevation changes, and so I don't have to listen to it from inside the shop. 

I blow straight into a dump truck, and even though we outsource a majority of our planing, between short run planing jobs, and all the other tools, we fill up this dump truck about every week or two, depending.
 
I know it's difficult, but setting the dust collection unit outside of the shop, either filling bags, bins, whatever, will guarantee that the shop will be virtually dust free.  Even setting a cyclone just on the other side of the wall, such as under an awning, will make things quieter and cleaner. The Timberkings come with a remotely wired switch to facilitate this, as shown in SJC's picture, to facilitate easy remote mounting.

BTW, to keep the dust exiting the pipe under control, I used an old dust collector bag, slit open the bottom, and tied it around the duct.  It greatly enhances the accuracy of the blowing dust. 

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21488/IMG_0102.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1486610299)
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: DDW_OR on June 12, 2017, 03:19:36 AM
I donot want to hijack SlowJoeCrow's thread, so i will say that i get a LOT of rain here in Oregon
 so far for the month of June we have over one inch of rain

i like the idea of not having the collection motor inside the shop

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/27421/Glendale_Weather.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1479226725)
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: DDW_OR on June 12, 2017, 03:49:04 AM
For routing the piping i see two ways.
first is from under the floor to the tools that are not near the walls
the second is from the ceiling to the tools that are not near the walls.

I am thinking of under the floor. have the dust port near the electrical outlet for the table saw.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: SlowJoeCrow on June 12, 2017, 08:50:51 AM
I've got the little Dust Deputy and it works great. The collection barrel MUST be air tight. If there is any leakage of air, dust gets sucked past the cyclone. I'm using a blue plastic barrel similar to yours, but mine has a lid that is pressed on over a barbed lip on the drum, and has the locking ring. It was used for ground up jalapeno peppers for a big chain restaurant. I made a rubber gasket, plywood re-enforcing collar, and used RTV sealant to mount the cyclone on the lid. I can fill the barrel from the tablesaw or the planer and only have a half cup or so of dust in the shopvac.

Yes, sounds like our barrels are similar if not the same.  The one I have had food-grade glue in it, I just had to wash it out.  The lid is a press fit into the top with a rubber gasket and the band clamp tensions it together.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: SlowJoeCrow on June 12, 2017, 09:44:07 AM
Yellowhammer, great point about getting the blower outside the shop and keeping the on/off switch close at hand.  On my unit it is just 14/3 wire from the mag switch to the motor, I imagine on the 5 hp it would be 12/3 or heavier.  If you need should need a longer distance, simply swap out longer wire.

I have debated where to put my collector and how to run my ducting for quite a while.  My shop is the top floor of a 2 story building setup just like a bank barn.  The bottom floor is in the ground on three sides with garage doors going out to a driveway on the walkout side.  The top floor has a ground entrance on the opposite side of the shop.  Here is a picture describing it:

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44509/20160610_174722.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1497274469)

Ideally the collector should be downstairs with all the mains running in the downstairs ceiling, popping up through the floor for the tools.

BUT, my shop is very much so a work in progress, meaning that I don't have a finalized floor plan and I am kinda afraid to go punching holes in the floor knowing that I may end up moving things around.  So, for now, I will put the collector upstairs in the corner of the shop and run my ducting overhead.  That way I can get up and running reasonably fast, and  when I plan on moving things downstairs/outside, I can take the ducting down and reuse everything.  More work in the end, but like I said, I don't have my machine layout perfected yet.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: 21incher on June 12, 2017, 07:02:18 PM
I can't recommend one but if I had extra money to waste the ivac setup on the infinitytools.com site looks real slick. :)
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: SlowJoeCrow on June 13, 2017, 03:17:47 PM
I mentioned that there was some damage to the blower caused by shipping.  I notified Woodmaster about this yesterday around noon.  In less than 24 hours I had replacement parts on my doorstep. So far my entire experience with Woodmaster has been very positive.  Today I placed an order with Oneida that will enable me to complete the cyclone unit.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: SlowJoeCrow on July 06, 2017, 10:02:21 AM
Well, here is a quick update... my order came in a while ago from Oneida and it is still sitting in the garage where the UPS man put it.  Lately I have been busy with many other things that have needed my attention around the house and farm.  But I will eventually be getting back to this project and will update as I go.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: SlowJoeCrow on January 02, 2018, 11:12:30 AM
Well, I have been slowly working on my dust collection system.  I was going to mount the system in the wood shop and I did mount the blower and filter assembly and then overnight I changed my mind and decided to mount it in the shop garage below the woodshop.  I wasn't happy with the setup that I had mounted and decided to start over before I got any farther.  The motor/blower assembly is heavy and I wasn't looking forward to taking it down just to put back up again.  But that is how life goes sometimes.

Here is the blower and filter stack mounted in the new and final (I hope) location.
(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44509/20171227_181404.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1514908329)

I needed to rotate the blower housing on the motor for the correct orientation for my setup.  The cast housing is in two pieces and bolted together.  Take it apart, pull the impeller off the motor shaft and then you can get to the four bolts holding the housing to the motor.  So this housing can be rotated in 90 degree increments.  Got that done before I mounted it to the wall. 

Next is the Oneida Super Dust Deputy XL cyclone.  With some gentle heat on the plastic flange, it was a press-fit on the the cast aluminum blower housing flange. Nice.
(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44509/20171228_183911.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1514908276)

I made a simple wall bracket to stabilize and support the bottom of the cyclone and you can see a flanged fitting on the bottom of the bracket that will lead to the dust collection barrels.

You can also see that I had to notch a floor joist for the motor to fit... of course I didn't see this until I had the assembly lifted up and ready to bolt in... yeah had to set it down again and cut the joist.  I mounted it so high for several reasons, one to get as much vertical space as possible for the collection barrels and two so that I could lag bold the mounting bracket directly into the wood sill above the block.  Before I started any of this, I needed to relocate some existing electrical boxes and wiring, that is what that older fuse box is.  I will be running this on it's own 20 amp 230v circuit.

Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: SlowJoeCrow on January 02, 2018, 11:24:57 AM
Here I have all the pipe in and sealed from the blower to the filter and the intake pipe in and going up into the woodshop on the second floor.  I also have the wye on the bottom of the cyclone - I am going to use two of the blue drums instead of one for more holding capacity.
(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44509/20180101_170732.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1514910005)

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44509/20180101_170632.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1514910028)

It is a shame I had to block the window with the piping, but I have very specific space constraints to work with and the window was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I still need to run the wiring, put the pipe flanges on the barrel lids and connect with flex hose, and run all the ducting up in the wood shop.  All the pipe you see here is 6" diameter for reference.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: samandothers on January 02, 2018, 11:48:41 AM
Looking good!
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: SlowJoeCrow on January 03, 2018, 08:52:41 AM
Last night I wired the 230v circuit to run the collector.  This motor comes with a magnetic switch - I am going to put that up in the woodshop but in order to do that I needed to put a longer cord from the motor to the switch.  I quit last night right in the middle of that, hopefully I can finish that tonight and power it up.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: SlowJoeCrow on January 04, 2018, 07:54:06 AM
No pics but wiring is completed and I powered up the blower with no issues last night.  It starts up smoothly and quickly.  I'm glad I put it downstairs, that sucker is loud.  However I don't have my barrels or any machines hooked up yet so no testing of the cyclone.  I do think it will be a bit quieter with everything hooked up properly, time will tell I guess.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: SlowJoeCrow on January 08, 2018, 09:45:31 PM
Here is a picture of the collector completely assembled and all sealed up, pardon the old tractor in the way!  It is much quieter when the barrels are attached which is good and it isn't loud at all from the wood shop which is above this garage.

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44509/20180105_180014.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1515464872)

I really wish I had a good way of measuring the cfm of this system so I can compare it to my old Jet DC1100.  I can tell that the cyclone pulls more air, but I'm not sure how much more.  It will be way better, since the it will never lose suction and my woodchip capacity went from a small bag to 2 55 gallon barrels.  I am curious if one barrel will fill up faster than the other or if they will fill at the same rate.  Does anyone have a dual drum setup like mine?  Do they fill up evenly?

I am now working on the ducting up in the woodshop.  I needed to come up with a better machine layout as I wasn't happy with the way everything currently was laid out.  A lot of head scratching and lots of moving machines around but I finally got a layout that I like and I can process 12' boards with it.  I have started to run the 6" mains but I have a lot of work to do and I need to order more pipe and fittings.

Stay tuned...
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: Larry on January 08, 2018, 10:00:20 PM
Running a planer will fill both drums in 30 minutes or so.  You might investigate getting a proximity sensor to wire to a warning light upstairs.  Cleaning the filter out is no fun.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: YellowHammer on January 09, 2018, 12:58:00 AM
The centrifugal impellers react negatively to downstream back pressure.  It would be an interesting experiennt to eliminate that pressure by not going through the air exhaust filters temporarily.  See what effect that has on your inlet flow. 
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: SlowJoeCrow on January 09, 2018, 07:32:59 AM
Larry,  I think that will be a must for my setup.  I need to research sensors and see if that is something I can wire up myself of if I should just buy the one Oneida sells.

YH, that's interesting, are you saying the impellers with curved fins do better dealing with back pressure?  That's something I didn't consider when I put this together.  I guess I need to get one of those air velocity gauges that I see guys using on Youtube.  In my case, it would be easy to "bypass" the filters for testing - all I would have to do is pop the black plastic cleanout off the bottom of the filters.  Originally I was going to plumb the system so that it could vent outside in the summertime and through the filters in the wintertime, but you can see that I didn't do that.  This has taken a long enough time already and I need to get up and running.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: samandothers on January 09, 2018, 09:42:05 AM
Is there an air return to ensure good flow?  Since the unit pulls air from the up stairs would it it need a return path to flow properly?   Do units that vent out side need an air return if in a insulated\sealed structure?
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: SlowJoeCrow on January 09, 2018, 10:17:42 AM
Yes, absolutely.  When you are moving that much air, you need to replace it.  In my case, the air simply travels back up the staircase located at the far side of the shop.  My building is set up just like a bank barn with garage bays in the lower level and I have my woodshop in the upper level which has one side at grade.  If you were venting outside from an insulated/sealed structure, the collector would create a vacuum in the shop, sucking air in through any crack available and would probably perform poorly due to the vacuum.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: YellowHammer on January 09, 2018, 10:28:44 AM
Yes, backpressure, on the outlet side, or head loss on the inlet side, can have significant effect on this type of blower.  These types of blower, specifically this geometry with the primary dust collection bags designed to be on the outlet are designed as high flow trash blowers where all the airflow and the debris passes through the blower into the containment system.  So these are designed to be heavy duty but with loose tolerances designed to not choke on the heavy solids.  Lower efficiency, lower suction pressure, higher tolerance for trash.  Although these have very high airflows when unobstructed, any constriction, on either side, will cause a decrease in performance.  I have no experience with your outlet filters and don't know how much they will choke off flow.  Maybe not at all, maybe something significant.

The classic Oneida style suction blowers optimized for cyclones and bags mounted on the on the inlet side aren't designed to handle heavy solids because they are supposed to get removed before they get to the blower.  So this style is designed for clean air, tighter clearances, and are higher efficiency.  However, they can't handle trash, that's why all the primary filters are designed to be mounted on the inlet, vacuum, side.

Anyways, I would run a few quick experiments if you haven't done it to get to know the characteristics of the blower performance curves.  First I would unhook both the inlet and outlet, and let if run completely unobstructed.  This will be max performance, and I think it will be quite impressive.  Then I would start hooking your components back up, one by one, playing with it a little, and you will see which components seem to have the most effect on performance.  Maybe the outlet filters will have no effect, maybe they will.  Maybe inlet side has some things that can be improved, maybe not.  Play around.  You'll get a feel for it pretty quick.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: 21incher on January 09, 2018, 10:31:05 AM
That looks really nice. 8)
It is funny but I learned a lot about material collection 2 years ago when I bought a Cyclone Rake for my yard. I purchased the 10 inch system that was recommended for my mower deck size. The hose would constantly plug up so the company sent out 2 engineers to look at it. Turned out it was the size of the hose with my type of grass causing the problem. They downgraded me to a 8 Inch system and that is unstoppable. The 10 inch hose had a slightly lower static pressure, but greatly reduced velocity in the hose so material would drop out of the air flow and start to plug the collection tube. As the flow started getting restricted the static pressure of the blower would drop causing material to block the hose. The 8 inch system has only a slightly higher static pressure but a higher velocity stream through the hose that keeps the material suspended and has never plugged again. There seems to be a little bit of magic involved getting a system tuned properly.  :)
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: Don P on January 09, 2018, 11:12:46 AM
Yes, absolutely.  When you are moving that much air, you need to replace it.  In my case, the air simply travels back up the staircase located at the far side of the shop.  My building is set up just like a bank barn with garage bays in the lower level and I have my woodshop in the upper level which has one side at grade.  If you were venting outside from an insulated/sealed structure, the collector would create a vacuum in the shop, sucking air in through any crack available and would probably perform poorly due to the vacuum.

I forgot to leave a door open in a large shop with a 40hp dust system. We couldn't open the door until we shut down. Especially keep this in mind if there is any combustion equipment in the building, the makeup air will come down its chimney and the shop becomes the flue.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: SlowJoeCrow on January 09, 2018, 02:02:22 PM
I think other members have weighed in about using a dust collector that vents outside along with wood stoves... the two don't go together!!

I didn't really consider the differences between "through-flow" blowers vs cyclone blowers that are mostly clean air, I guess I will find out if bites me down the road.  Right now, I can stand in the woodshop and run the cyclone and my old Jet DC1100 at the same time and the airflow/suction is greater from the cyclone.  But I don't have a good way of comparing, I'm just holding my hand up to the pipe and feeling.  I will definitely remove the end cap on the filter stack and see if I can tell a difference.  The filters are 18" diameter by 62" tall pleated filters from Oneida, the biggest they sell.

I guess if I have performance issues down the road, I can look at improving components to help increase efficiency, but I don't think that I will have issues.  I have to draw the line somewhere when it comes to cost.  For example I could have went with even larger radius solid sweeping 90's compared to the large radius adjustable elbows that I am using.  But they are $40.63 compared to $17.37, which adds up.  For now my goal is to get the machines hooked up.  I am betting that I will have just as much or more money in the pipe and fittings as I do in the dust collector itself.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: SlowJoeCrow on January 09, 2018, 03:39:10 PM
For anyone curious, here is a parts list with cost associated for the cyclone build only.  This doesn't include any pipe or fittings upstream of the cyclone.

Woodmaster:
3hp blower  $575

Oneida:
Super Dust Deputy XL  $239
Filter Assembly  $529.21
8" x 6" Reducer  $14.23
24 Gauge Adjustable Large Radius Elbow $17.37 x2 = $34.74
6" Angle Ring w/ Precrimped Pipe Collar  $32.98 x3 = $98.94
6" x 6" x 6" Pants Wye Joint  $90.42

Lee Valley:
6" PVC Flex Hose (10' Length, only used about 4')  $59.00
6" Bridge Hose Clamps  $8.20 x4 = $32.8


Misc:
Blue Barrels  $20
Foil Tape, Silicon Sealant, Nuts, Bolts, Screws, Rivets $20

Total:  $1713.34 (plus tax)

I wanted to see if the cost savings was worth the extra work involved in building my own system, but it's very hard to compare my build with Oneida's stock dust collectors.  Their cheapest 3hp unit is the V3000 at $1859.  At first glance it doesn't seem worth it to build your own but here are the differences:

Pro's for my build:
- wall mount for Oneida is extra, mine is custom fit to go exactly where I wanted it
- Oneida's fan housing is resin, Woodmaster's is cast aluminum, along with the impeller, way more heavy duty
- Oneida filter is much smaller at 13" diameter by 36" long
- Oneida dust drum is only 35 gallons, mine has dual 55 gallon barrels

Pro's for Oneida V3000:
- Ready to install,
- Optimized for efficiency
- 7" inlet vs. my 6" inlet

The more expensive 3HP Dust Gorilla Pro is on sale for $2620, a large difference in price.

I could have used cheaper fittings, especially the pants wye, the angle ring collars and clamps, etc but I am glad that I used the heavy duty ones from Oneida, they will hold up in the long run.  Overall I am happy with the build so far, but I need to get the pipe network up and installed, which will take a bit more.

I welcome any feedback you all have to offer, thanks!



Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: samandothers on January 10, 2018, 11:27:21 AM
I am trying to decide whether to place the dust collector outside or inside. I would rather have outside to reduce noise and possible inside dust.  However I am not sure how to deal with air return and the heat loss of such a system.  This would be in my basement.  Part of which would be conditioned and have a wood stove.  I donít want to operate with outside door open in the winter.  Now is the time to plan before house building.
I will be using a Older Grizzly 4hp unit with 4 bags I got off CL a few years ago.  Currently plans are to build a closet/room for the collector on one end of the shop with some insulation for sound with furnace type air return and filters for air exiting and re-entering the basement shop.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: DDW_OR on January 10, 2018, 12:50:37 PM
.......Currently plans are to build a closet/room for the collector on one end of the shop with some insulation for sound with furnace type air return and filters for air exiting and re-entering the basement shop.
good idea.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: SlowJoeCrow on January 10, 2018, 01:17:55 PM
x2, build a closet to keep it in, sounds like a good plan, that's what I would do in a basement shop.  Make it big enough to house the air compressor as well if you use one.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: btulloh on January 10, 2018, 07:40:15 PM
x3 on the closet.  I put one outside about 10 years ago and it did have provision for return air.  The return air was not heated and in the winter it would take the shop from 60 degrees to 30 degrees in about 3 minutes.  It was a space thing at the time and it was my best option, but I've move on from that now.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: 21incher on January 10, 2018, 08:13:46 PM
You can get a kit for my woodstove that uses 100% outside air. I think most better stoves have that feature for tight houses these days. My Grizzly canister style collector is quieter then the old bag style one I started with. I think having the folds in the filter helps keep the sound from coming straight out at you.   :)
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: samandothers on January 11, 2018, 09:15:41 AM
Good to hear closet idea is the best approach. 

I thought about putting the compressor in there too since both are 240 v.  I was concerned about having the dust in the area of the compressor.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: DDW_OR on January 11, 2018, 11:07:42 AM
Good to hear closet idea is the best approach. 

I thought about putting the compressor in there too since both are 240 v.  I was concerned about having the dust in the area of the compressor.
plumb the air intake for the compressor to use either the shop air or the outside air, not the closet air.
if you are using the compressor a lot then think about adding an air dryer. that will help reduce the water build up in the tank.
is your compressor a vertical one?
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: Kbeitz on January 11, 2018, 11:19:43 AM
Good to hear closet idea is the best approach. 

I thought about putting the compressor in there too since both are 240 v.  I was concerned about having the dust in the area of the compressor.
plumb the air intake for the compressor to use either the shop air or the outside air, not the closet air.
if you are using the compressor a lot then think about adding an air dryer. that will help reduce the water build up in the tank.
is your compressor a vertical one?

You dont want the compressor intake sucking cold air from outside ether.
You get lots of sweat that way. Take the inlet air from your heated room.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: samandothers on January 11, 2018, 02:22:50 PM
It is a vertical unit.  It makes sense to have an air intake exterior of the closet.  I will use air from the basement and not exterior.  Will look into the dryer.

Thanks again!
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: SlowJoeCrow on January 17, 2018, 09:20:03 AM
Here are a few pictures of the dust collection main being put up in my humble shop.  It is 6" diameter 26 gauge pipe.  The blast gates are there just for testing air flow and aren't in their final locations.  I need more pipe and fittings, which I have made a list and now ordered from Oneida. 

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44509/20180112_110202.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1516198291)

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44509/20180112_174515.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1516198335)

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44509/20180112_174535.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1516198249)

While I wait for that to come, I am wiring a 30 amp 230 volt circuit to power the jointer, planer, table saw and radial arm saw in their new locations.  Before I moved them, I powered them off of a large 12 gauge extension cord since I didn't no where they would end up.  What a pain that has been, plugging and unplugging all the time with a cord on the floor and in the way.  The new outlets will be in the ceiling close to where the dust collection drops are for the machines, that way I can minimize vertical obstructions.  Of course part of the wiring job includes putting longer cords on three of the machines since the stock cords won't reach the 10' ceiling.

This shop has come a long way, but has a long way to go until it is finished.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: samandothers on January 17, 2018, 10:02:23 AM
Very nice!

Could you run a vertical member down with the air duct and mount an electrical box near the machines and eliminate the longer machine cord?
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: SlowJoeCrow on January 17, 2018, 10:35:42 AM
I thought about that but decided to go the route with the longer cords, I really don't know which would be better.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: Crusarius on January 17, 2018, 11:27:17 AM
I would prefer to have a plug in a location that I did not need a ladder to unhook it. Especially when cleaning or setting up. I am sure I missed what your ceiling height is.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: SlowJoeCrow on January 17, 2018, 12:30:30 PM
Very good point, hmm, I may need to rethink my approach.  10' ceiling.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: Crusarius on January 17, 2018, 12:33:23 PM
if you have all of your equipment on separate breakers you can just shut off the breaker. That would be the next best way to do it.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: SlowJoeCrow on January 17, 2018, 01:27:09 PM
Well, that is just as bad since my breaker box is in the lower level of the building, it would actually be quicker to use a ladder in that case.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: Crusarius on January 17, 2018, 04:26:58 PM
I tried :)
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: DDW_OR on January 18, 2018, 12:08:03 AM
Well, that is just as bad since my breaker box is in the lower level of the building, it would actually be quicker to use a ladder in that case.
put in a sub-panel for the shop floor. use cable at lease as heavy as the main supply, or one gauge heavier.

have a plug on a long cable hanging from the ceiling. that way you do not have to use a ladder.( that is the way we did it at work ). use 10 AWG 
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: SlowJoeCrow on January 18, 2018, 08:10:49 AM
Alright guys, I do like the idea of bringing the outlets down to machine height, thanks for the suggestions.  Right now I have 10/2 romex (solid wire) up in the ceiling going into outlet boxes.  Now I am thinking about getting some 10/3  power cord (stranded wire) for the drops, wire nutting it into the romex in the ceiling box and just putting a female 20 amp 230v plug on the drop ends.  All of the existing machines are rated at 15 amps or under so I thing 10 gauge is overkill but I wanted to plan for the future if/when I upgrade anything.

Let me know what you think.  I will tin the ends of the 10/3 wire inside the box to help hold up to the wire nuts.  Is there a better way to do this?
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: Crusarius on January 18, 2018, 08:15:33 AM
Twist lock outlet on the ceiling with heavy gauge extension cord to the machine plug. That will give you the most flexibility of any setup. Will make it expandable and able to be adjusted for the future growth
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: btulloh on January 18, 2018, 08:35:43 AM
in the floor
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: Crusarius on January 18, 2018, 08:50:24 AM
I have always thought about the floor but the amount of crap that gets into the outlet and if you ever move the machine then it stinks.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: Kbeitz on January 18, 2018, 08:52:35 AM
You need to ask for SO wire or cord.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: SlowJoeCrow on January 18, 2018, 09:10:00 AM
Yes, I have thought about running both electric and dust collection through the floor,  but I didn't want to do that.  The romex is already run in the ceiling, I am going to go that route.

K, the cord I was thinking of buying is type SJEOOW, should be good?  A 20 foot roll should do my three drops if I just cut it in thirds.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: YellowHammer on January 18, 2018, 09:12:05 AM
You need to ask for SO wire or cord.
Yes, SOOW (commonly called SO) Flexible Service Cord is flexible stranded wire designed for for this type of thing.  Solid Romex will fatigue and eventually cause hot spots under vibration and movement.  Wire Romex to a junction box overhead, then convert to SO and direct wire to the machine.     

Extension cords do not meet fire codes if used for a long term installation.

Dust in outlets is a real problem.  They will fill with fine sawdust.  I get inspections by the local Fire Marshall once a year, and they look for that.  I was surprised how fast and how much it builds up. 
Here's a related thread.
http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,96290.msg1486979.html#msg1486979   
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: DDW_OR on January 18, 2018, 12:21:35 PM
and add a strain relief to the drop cord
something like this
https://www.platt.com/platt-electric-supply/Support-Grips-Single-U-Eye-Closed-Mesh/Remke-Industries/2201013R/Product.aspx?zpid=223182
you pass the SO through the wire mesh. then attach the free end of the strain relief to a hook in the ceiling. leave a slight bend in the SO between the strain relief and the ceiling junction box.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: Kbeitz on January 18, 2018, 12:23:13 PM
This makes the job easier...

 

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/cable_so.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1516296181) 
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: SlowJoeCrow on January 22, 2018, 08:23:04 AM
No pictures to share, but the wiring is done and functional.  I did install cord drops as talked about and I am sure glad I did, thanks for the suggestions.  I put a junction box on the ceiling and the cord goes straight down through the center knockout in the flat cover.  The cord is suspended is by a twin screw cable clamp that seats in the knockout.  No strain on the connections inside the box and I plan on running the drops along the dust collection drops with zip-ties so there shouldn't be any tension on the wires.  I am now waiting on my order from Oneida so that I can finish up the dust collection.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: SlowJoeCrow on January 25, 2018, 01:02:04 PM
The rest of the pipe and fittings that I was waiting on showed up yesterday, but I won't get out to the shop til the weekend. Hopefully I get it all installed and I didn't leave anything out of the order!
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: samandothers on January 28, 2018, 02:44:48 PM
Looking forward to the finished product!
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: petefrom bearswamp on January 29, 2018, 06:49:23 PM
Dont know how I missed it but just found this thread
Mine is an old surplus 5 HP belt driven.piped to an outside  chip/shaving wagon of about 192 cu ft. I built 15 years ago.
Plastic pipe with copper static wire outside the pipe with terminals screwed into the  the pipe at intervals.
My blast gates on the multiple machine  system are home made out of plywood.
Dont use it as much as I used to.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: SlowJoeCrow on January 30, 2018, 10:54:20 AM
Well, I certainly didn't get as much done as I had planned on the dust collection this past weekend but that is ok, we did a bunch of other things as well.
Here is what I did get done - I have the table saw and floor sweep drop completed and the floor sweep is great, it has a ton of suction. 

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44509/20180127_143140.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1517326749)

The kids love the floor sweep, they started brushing everything off, sweeping the whole floor just to get chips and dust to send up the pipe.  In the next picture you can see how I did the electrical drop.  No tension on the cord this way and I am very glad I did it so that I can quickly unplug the machines when the kids are in the shop.  They love to touch everything including on/off switches and this way I don't have to worry about them powering up a machine and hurting themselves.

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44509/20180127_143206.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1517327118)

I was originally going to put the floor sweep up against a wall, but that takes up wall space which is at a premium and this is centrally located in the shop but doesn't interfere with my travel lanes.

I continued the main over to the jointer and planer but didn't get that drop finished yet.

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44509/20180127_175717.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1517327533)

To be continued...

Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: Kbeitz on January 30, 2018, 11:36:56 AM
Lookin good...
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: DDW_OR on January 30, 2018, 02:15:50 PM
SlowJoeCrow, what do you think about my planed layout?
wood furnace will be located under a lean-too, the hot air will be duckted to the shop
the 30x24 Wood shop will be built inside the 30x64 pole barn.
the "open area" on the table saw will have a cabinet build to hold the router, making a router table
the red box is where the circuit panel will be
the dust collector closet will have a clean air return back to the shop.
the table saw, miter saw, and jointer will have their dust collection under the floor.
the planer will have overhead collection

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/27421/Pole_barn_-_Wood_Shop.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1517338896)
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: SlowJoeCrow on January 31, 2018, 09:00:56 AM
Looks like a good layout to me, but it really depends on what you plan on doing most of the time in there.  I used to have my machines laid out to handle 8' boards.  That worked out fine until I wanted to process some 12' lumber.  Now I have a good setup where I can handle 12' lumber with 4' walkways around the stationary machines throughout the shop.  I use carts alot so I wanted 4' travel paths.  This setup will work good until I want to process 16' lumber :D :D  I guess I need to draw up a sketch of my layout some time.

In your layout,  I would run a dust collection line over to the timberking as well as to the other machines.  I have my planer and jointer grouped as you have, I think that makes sense.   The only limitation I see is if you wanted to process stock over 10' long, you might be a bit cramped ripping boards on the table saw.  Think about the longest stock you want to work with with those machines and go from there.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: DDW_OR on January 31, 2018, 11:01:37 AM
Looks like a good layout to me, but it really depends on what you plan on doing most of the time in there.  I used to have my machines laid out to handle 8' boards.  That worked out fine until I wanted to process some 12' lumber.  Now I have a good setup where I can handle 12' lumber with 4' walkways around the stationary machines throughout the shop.  I use carts alot so I wanted 4' travel paths.  This setup will work good until I want to process 16' lumber :D :D  I guess I need to draw up a sketch of my layout some time.

In your layout,  I would run a dust collection line over to the timberking as well as to the other machines.  I have my planer and jointer grouped as you have, I think that makes sense.   The only limitation I see is if you wanted to process stock over 10' long, you might be a bit cramped ripping boards on the table saw.  Think about the longest stock you want to work with with those machines and go from there.
thank you.
yes i plan to add dust collection to the Timber King.
my current setup is; shop vac to a white 55 gallon plastic barrow, then to the saw discharge chute. it picks up 75% of the sawdust.

80% will be 8', and 10% will be 10'. for the remaining 10% i have the green garage door, and have the table saw on wheels.
the absolute longest the Timberking can do is 21'. IF i have to plain that then i will take the planer out. that is another reason for the garage door.

for the layout i just used Microsoft Excel. set the row and column each to 20 pixels, that way each square is uniform. then setup a scale system, 1 square = 1 foot or 4 squares = 1 foot
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: DDW_OR on January 31, 2018, 11:13:04 AM
i also measured the height of the table saw and will make the height of the work benches against the walls the same height.
cannot do that for the planer since the bed moves up and down.

i also plan to store some of my hand power tools in 4 drawer file cabinets.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: TACman on January 31, 2018, 11:39:42 AM
Are you planning on building any kind of guards around the drops to prevent damage to the ductwork? Not only would it protect the duct, but could be used to store tools and spare parts for that piece of machinery. Therefore, keeping everything at hand and reducing time and steps to retrieve and replace. Just a thought.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: SlowJoeCrow on January 31, 2018, 01:24:52 PM
And a very good thought at that, thanks for the suggestion.  While I won't do this immediately, maybe I will in the future, you are right, it would make a very good spot to store often used tools or accessories for that particular tool.

For example, the table saw used to be up against a wall and I simply hung different blades, wrenches,push sticks, miter gauges etc on the wall right next to it.  Now with the saw being an island, I will have to find a new convenient spot for all that stuff.  My immediate thought was to repurpose an old crapsman rolling tool box for storing these items next to the saw.  I have one that has been retired and I am going to bring it into the woodshop.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: samandothers on January 31, 2018, 01:58:33 PM
SlowJoeCrow

You indicated you used 6" duct from Oneida. Why this approach versus 6" duct from a hardware or box store?  Are you gates 6" or did you reduce to a 4"?
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: TACman on January 31, 2018, 02:21:04 PM
10-4 and at the best you can do, you will bump it with something eventually if not protected and if your luck is like mine, it will be much sooner than later.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: SlowJoeCrow on January 31, 2018, 02:33:29 PM
The Oneida pipe I am using is 26 gauge snaplock.  The big box stores around me only offer 29 or 30 gauge which is quite a bit more flimsy and very thin.  I would be afraid of it crushing under suction where as the 26 gauge won't.  I didn't do pvc because 6" long sweep fittings are very expensive plus you have grounding issues.  Oneida has worked out very well for me, I have purchased all the pipe and fittings from them with the exception of blast gates.  I got the self-cleaning blast gates from Lee Valley since Oneida doesn't carry them.  Getting everything from Oneida ensures everything fits.  Plus they have free shipping if your order is big enough, which really adds up.

It's hard to see but for the table saw and floor sweep drop, I have a 6x6x4 wye with a 4" gate for the saw and a 6" gate for the floor sweep, you want all the volume you can get there.  So I have 6" for the floor sweep and 4" to the saw.  Of course one of those needs to be closed for the other to pull sufficiently.

I will be running 6" directly to all the big air hogs (planer, woodmaster, chop saw, and 4" to everything else. 
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: DDW_OR on January 31, 2018, 04:24:01 PM
For anyone curious, here is a parts list with cost associated for the cyclone build only.  This doesn't include any pipe or fittings upstream of the cyclone.

Woodmaster:
3hp blower  $575

Oneida:
Super Dust Deputy XL  $239
Filter Assembly  $529.21
8" x 6" Reducer  $14.23
24 Gauge Adjustable Large Radius Elbow $17.37 x2 = $34.74
6" Angle Ring w/ Precrimped Pipe Collar  $32.98 x3 = $98.94
6" x 6" x 6" Pants Wye Joint  $90.42

Lee Valley:
6" PVC Flex Hose (10' Length, only used about 4')  $59.00
6" Bridge Hose Clamps  $8.20 x4 = $32.8


Misc:
Blue Barrels  $20
Foil Tape, Silicon Sealant, Nuts, Bolts, Screws, Rivets $20

Total:  $1713.34 (plus tax)

I wanted to see if the cost savings was worth the extra work involved in building my own system, but it's very hard to compare my build with Oneida's stock dust collectors.  Their cheapest 3hp unit is the V3000 at $1859.  At first glance it doesn't seem worth it to build your own but here are the differences:

Pro's for my build:
- wall mount for Oneida is extra, mine is custom fit to go exactly where I wanted it
- Oneida's fan housing is resin, Woodmaster's is cast aluminum, along with the impeller, way more heavy duty
- Oneida filter is much smaller at 13" diameter by 36" long
- Oneida dust drum is only 35 gallons, mine has dual 55 gallon barrels

Pro's for Oneida V3000:
- Ready to install,
- Optimized for efficiency
- 7" inlet vs. my 6" inlet

The more expensive 3HP Dust Gorilla Pro is on sale for $2620, a large difference in price.

I could have used cheaper fittings, especially the pants wye, the angle ring collars and clamps, etc but I am glad that I used the heavy duty ones from Oneida, they will hold up in the long run.  Overall I am happy with the build so far, but I need to get the pipe network up and installed, which will take a bit more.

I welcome any feedback you all have to offer, thanks!

so, is this parts list accurate?
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: SlowJoeCrow on January 31, 2018, 06:08:13 PM
Yes, but as stated, that was only for the cyclone build, not all the pipe and fittings upstream of it.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: flatrock58 on February 01, 2018, 10:09:06 PM
When and if I ever finish my shop I plan on installing a Woodmaster blower. How do you like the Woodmaster blower?  Do you think the 3hp is big enough?
 I got a deal on my piping off Facebook marketplace.  I now have some 4, 5, 6 and 7" rigid pipe.  Should be enough to do the entire shop.

 

 (http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/37117/IMG_7384.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1517540837)
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: flatrock58 on February 03, 2018, 09:16:56 PM
SlowJoeCrow.  I like the floor sweep.  Where did you get that?  I plan on having a floor sweep, but will have it going through a 55 gallon drum so the heavy stuff falls out and does not get to the blower.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: DDW_OR on February 04, 2018, 02:37:44 AM
Yep, that is how i also plan to do it.
building a 8' long x 4' wide x 12' high cabinet. put the electrical parts in the top and have a LARGE dust/chip collection bin. then return the cleaned air back to the shop.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: Crusarius on February 04, 2018, 02:12:08 PM
Make sure you guys think about fires when your setting these up. you get a hopper fire in something that size and it could take the shop before you know its burning.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: DDW_OR on February 04, 2018, 08:23:15 PM
Make sure you guys think about fires when your setting these up. you get a hopper fire in something that size and it could take the shop before you know its burning.
thank you for the great safety concern. completely forgot about fire.

thermal alarms and CO2 sensors, as well as weekly inspections.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: SlowJoeCrow on February 05, 2018, 10:40:09 AM
When and if I ever finish my shop I plan on installing a Woodmaster blower. How do you like the Woodmaster blower?  Do you think the 3hp is big enough?
 I got a deal on my piping off Facebook marketplace.  I now have some 4, 5, 6 and 7" rigid pipe.  Should be enough to do the entire shop.

 

 (http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/37117/IMG_7384.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1517540837)

Flatrock, Happy Birthday!

I really like the Woodmaster blower so far.  It is American made and heavy duty.  It has a quality leeson motor and a heavy cast aluminum housing and impeller designed to take on abuse from debris going through it.  That being said, it may be overkill for my situation since my system is a cyclone so nothing except very fine dust reaches the blower, all the big stuff falls out in the cyclone before the blower.  Also as Yellowhammer has talked about earlier in this thread, this type of impeller (with straight radial fins and lots of clearance between the impeller fins and the housing) probably isn't as efficient as a blower designed solely for a cyclone.

It fit's my shop well in terms of capacity, I can say that I probably can have 2-3 four inch blast gates open at a time, especially if they are on different branches of the main.  I will have several 6" blast gates, you could probably have one other 4" gate open with the 6" open as well.  I don't think it has enough muscle to pull properly with 2 6" blast gates open at once.  I am mostly a one man shop so this isn't a problem for me.  If you are a bigger shop, have multiple machines running at once, or don't want to open and close blast gates, you probably should opt for the 5hp blower.

I ran it with and without the air filter cleanout cap on, thus eliminating back pressure from the air filter and I couldn't tell of any cfm loss when the cleanout cap was on compared to when it was off.  But that was just testing with my hand, I don't have any instruments to measure air flow with.  Also keep in mind that I am still building out the piping network, I haven't run the system a lot yet.  The collection barrels aren't even half full yet so I haven't put a lot of chips through the system yet.

Looks like you got a nice score with that spiral pipe, that is very heavy duty.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: SlowJoeCrow on February 05, 2018, 10:56:28 AM
SlowJoeCrow.  I like the floor sweep.  Where did you get that?  I plan on having a floor sweep, but will have it going through a 55 gallon drum so the heavy stuff falls out and does not get to the blower.

Here is a better picture of the drop that has a 4" port for the table saw and the floor sweep, which is 6".  Both have blast gates and only one of them can be open at a time for effective suction.  As you can now see, the sweep is made by Oneida.


(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44509/20180205_100004.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1517845592)


It works good as is and has plenty of suction.  The opening is only 12" wide and after I get everything else done, I plan on making wing wall extensions out of wood that will come out on a slight angle (maybe 15 degrees) from the edges with a  top on it so that it has a wider opening better suited for a wider floor broom.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: flatrock58 on February 05, 2018, 11:30:09 AM
SlowJoeCrow.  Thanks for the birthday wish.  I hear Oneida is nice stuff.  I will have to look it up.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: petefrom bearswamp on February 05, 2018, 12:49:28 PM
Very interesting thread.
Thanks for all the valuable posts here.
I learned early about how quickly my 32x64 shop can fill with smoke if I fail to open a door part way.
My blower would suck a golf ball thru a garden hose, but with my old 15" Jet straight knife planer the 6" would plug some times especially with basswood.
not so with the 20" spiral, although I forgot to close one gate away from the planer once and plugged the pipe.
Also I never considered that the outlets I have near the machines can collect dust.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: SlowJoeCrow on February 05, 2018, 01:46:31 PM
Wow, that's some big chips to plug up a 6" pipe!  Speaking of planers, I did get my 15" planer and my 8" jointer plumbed into the system last week but I haven't run anything through them yet.  They share a 6" drop.  The planer has a 5" stock outlet on the machine.  Before I built this dust collection system, I used to reduce to 4" flex pipe and go right into the Jet DC1100 dust collector without an issue of plugging.  Now I have a 6" main reduced down to 5" right at the machine so I don't anticipate any clogging issues.  The jointer has 4" going to it which is plenty for that machine.


(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44509/20180201_172910.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1517856174)


And a view from the backside:


(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44509/20180201_172928.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1517845591)


On this planer, the head moves up and down, not the table bed, so I used a piece of 6" flex hose to allow for the movement of the head.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: flatrock58 on February 05, 2018, 04:09:11 PM
Looks like you have the exact same jointer and planer that I have.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: petefrom bearswamp on February 05, 2018, 04:22:49 PM
slowjoe
The basswood made really long shavings with the straight knives.
I had to take a real thin pass to keep from plugging.
Plus I have standard dwv elbows, not sweeps which may have caused the prob.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: SlowJoeCrow on February 05, 2018, 07:52:21 PM
Delta DJ20 jointer and DC380 planer.  I have never worked with basswood, does it machine well?
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: Kbeitz on February 06, 2018, 12:03:38 AM
Delta DJ20 jointer and DC380 planer.  I have never worked with basswood, does it machine well?

Great carving wood.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: YellowHammer on February 06, 2018, 08:09:03 AM
Delta DJ20 jointer and DC380 planer.  I have never worked with basswood, does it machine well?
Very clean grain, very easy to machine.  It has a tight grain similar to maple without the strength of maple or difficulty machining.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: DDW_OR on February 08, 2018, 12:51:09 PM
just had an idea. how about a 2 or 3 inch vacuum hose for each machine.
the hose can be used to clean the machine instead of a hand brush.

basically a shop vac but use the Dust collector.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: DDW_OR on February 08, 2018, 01:15:34 PM
FYI, i plan to use a lot of French cleats for tool storage and hanging my wall cabinets

https://www.bing.com/search?q=French+cleats&pc=MOZI&form=MOZCON
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: Larry on February 08, 2018, 05:51:29 PM
just had an idea. how about a 2 or 3 inch vacuum hose for each machine.
the hose can be used to clean the machine instead of a hand brush.

basically a shop vac but use the Dust collector.

I have 16' of two inch hose semi-permanently plumbed to a dust collector pipe in the center of the shop.  That way I can clean in a 32' circle.  I use it to pick up dust off the machines and when I get that done I put a vacuum attachment on to clean the floor.  The hose attaches to the pipe about 7' off the floor so I can pull it around without catching on a machine.  It picks up dust fine, but doesn't have enough suck to get little heavy objects which is great.  Much better than a shop vac without the noise.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: SlowJoeCrow on February 09, 2018, 11:35:26 AM
French cleats seem like the way to go and I think I will utilize them once my walls are finished.  A lot to do before then though.  I have been working on running another main for misc. small tools, the RAS and my cutoff station.  One of these 4" lines will be easily reduced down to 2.5" for use as a vacuum line just as mentioned above.  In the future I may put a small drop over my workbench as well.  I have a bunch of the 2.5" flex line that can be used as needed.


(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44509/20180204_122844.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1517845609)


Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: Crusarius on February 09, 2018, 12:36:44 PM
I love the french cleats and planning on that in my shop. the only thing that I keep trying to figure out is whether it is worth trying to put something under the wall cleat holding it off the wall a bit to keep from having a spot for dust and stuff to collect.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: SlowJoeCrow on February 12, 2018, 11:17:14 AM
I finished up the main running over to the chop saw station.

 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44509/20180210_111027.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1518450990)


I will need to connect these 4" drops eventually, but that is no big deal.

Time to make some sawdust, I need to pay for all this pipe!  The only large machine that I still need to hook up is the Woodmaster, but I am having a 6" dust hood made for it so it can wait.  Stock it has a 4" but IMO it is too small and needs a 6" port.

I jointed, planed & ripped a good bit of rough sawn oak over the weekend so the system got a good workout and performed nicely.  For whatever reason the collection barrel on the right fills up twice as fast as the one on the left.  Ideally it would be nice if they filled up equally, but I don't know what I can do about it.  I know that I definitely want to get a proximity sensor and a warning light (Oneida's Dust Sentry) for when the bin fills up since the barrels are downstairs and the shop is upstairs.  I surfaced enough wood to fill the barrels twice and the good thing is that when the right barrel fills up, the chips fill up to the wye fitting and then go into the left barrel.  So I can just look at the clear flex hose and tell when I need to empty them. 


(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44509/20180105_180014.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1515464872)


The cyclone is very efficient at separating the chips and solids out of the airstream.  After I emptied the barrels the second time, I popped the black plastic cap off the bottom of the air filter stack to see what was in it.  No solids in it, nothing.  I ran my hand over the pleated filter and some very fine dust came off, but no chips ever made it to the filter which is great.

Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: DDW_OR on February 12, 2018, 12:46:45 PM
do you have a system for telling when the barrows are full?
maybe a camera and monitor.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: samandothers on February 12, 2018, 07:31:13 PM
Nicely done!

I wonder if you rotated the wye a bit if it would affect 'where the chips fall'.   I am wondering if the swirling pattern the in cyclone is fairly consistent such that it hits the wye in a way that causes one barrel to fill over the other.  However, it does not look like you have too much room to play with.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: SlowJoeCrow on February 12, 2018, 09:19:21 PM
No system yet to tell if barrels are full from the woodshop level.  Right now I have to go downstairs and check every so often.  In the future I want to have a proximity sensor in the barrel wired to a warning light that will be in the woodshop.

One thing I thought of with one barrel filling up faster is there might be a suction leak on the barrel that isn't filling up as fast.  I will have to check it.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: Kbeitz on February 12, 2018, 10:05:35 PM
You could slip a cheap bathroom scale under each bucket
and watch the weight or you could buy weight alarms.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: SlowJoeCrow on February 17, 2018, 09:49:15 PM
Well it was bound to happen sometime, I wasn't paying attention and let the barrels over fill.  WHOOPS!  It wasn't too bad, only about 12 inches of chips in the filter stack.  Clean it out, blow it out, get back to work.  Then I did it again!!  Again, only about 12 inches of chips in the filter.  I need to get that Dust Sentry from Oneida.  Now I know how you sawyers feel after cutting into your backstops...
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: SlowJoeCrow on February 22, 2018, 10:41:19 AM
A little update on emptying the barrels:  I wanted to be able to empty the full barrels into bags get back to work quickly and deal with the bags later.  I started out with the saw dust going into the barrels and then I would empty the barrels into large trash bags.  This turned out to be a total mess and I always ended up spilling some no matter what.  So I wanted to put the bags into the barrels when they were empty, and just pull out the full bags when needed.  But I needed a bag hold down to keep the bags open and held down in the barrels while in use.  I was going to buy them from Oneida @ $58 a piece, but I realized I was over-thinking it.  I cut some old leftover linoleum that was sitting around, bolted it together to form a pipe shape, and slid it into the bag in the barrel.  It holds the bag great and all I do is slide the bag hold down out of the full barrel, tie up the bag full of chips and pull it out of the barrel.  Much easier and no mess.

(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44509/20180216_091302.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1519313951)

(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44509/20180216_091310.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1519313982)

(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44509/20180216_123520.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1519314004)
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: samandothers on February 22, 2018, 07:29:33 PM
Looks like a great way to empty and get back to it quickly!
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: DDW_OR on March 16, 2018, 04:04:44 PM
I have always thought about the floor but the amount of crap that gets into the outlet and if you ever move the machine then it stinks.
I am building a 30x24 wood shop from scratch and have been contemplating power from above or below, and dust collection from above or below.
I think the table saw will be both below.
and the planer and Jointer from above.