The Forestry Forum

General Forestry => Alternative methods and solutions => Topic started by: red on November 15, 2017, 04:13:18 PM

Title: Tesla new Electric Truck
Post by: red on November 15, 2017, 04:13:18 PM
Tomorrow is the big reveal on the Tesla Tractor Trailer Truck. It's the first one but many truck manufactures are building electric. Seems we still need cheaper lithium batteries is one large obstacle. 
Title: Re: Tesla new Electric Truck
Post by: sprucebunny on November 15, 2017, 05:05:32 PM
I read in a local newspaper today about a bunch of people ( probably not truck drivers...) pushing for self-driving trucks. It seems Tesla is working on this along with their autonomous cars. Tesla cars being sold now are upgrade-able to self-driving ! ...( when it becomes legal and practical, I hope )

Don't think it will impact my area since GPS is so often wrong around here and there are no chargers.
Title: Re: Tesla new Electric Truck
Post by: breederman on November 15, 2017, 06:17:14 PM
I was listening to a guy on the radio yesterday talking about self driving vehicles and how they had GPS to within 4 feet so they even  could avoid pot holes.  If that's the case how come my Garmin is off by a quarter mile sometimes ?
Title: Re: Tesla new Electric Truck
Post by: John Mc on November 15, 2017, 10:44:48 PM
I was listening to a guy on the radio yesterday talking about self driving vehicles and how they had GPS to within 4 feet so they even  could avoid pot holes.  If that's the case how come my Garmin is off by a quarter mile sometimes ?

A GPS with WAAS (Wide Area Augmentation System) will improve the accuracy considerably, if you can pick up the WAAS satellites (which are geosynchronous, so tend to be low on the horizon for those of us in the north).

There are other technologies which provide a more localized correction signal which will get even more accuracy than GPS with WAAS.
Title: Re: Tesla new Electric Truck
Post by: John Mc on November 15, 2017, 10:47:22 PM
Rumor has it that Tesla is working on a pickup truck as well. I'm hoping it's a real pickup, rather than a sport truck. I don't need to go long distances or 90+ MPH, I just need to haul my gear to where I'm going (which is within 20 miles 90% of the time)
Title: Re: Tesla new Electric Truck
Post by: Grizzly on November 15, 2017, 10:56:26 PM
Most of what I read now on the technology sounds good but some of us old diesel smellers are gonna have a hard time accepting this new stuff as "real" trucks. Won't even have gears to grind!!  :D
Title: Re: Tesla new Electric Truck
Post by: red on November 16, 2017, 08:26:12 AM
Tesla CEO Elon Musk is promising to " blow your mind clear out of your skull and into an alternate dimension " when he releases details on a new Electric Semi Truck Thursday night.
According to www.usatoday.com
Title: Re: Tesla new Electric Truck
Post by: Stuart Caruk on November 16, 2017, 04:47:52 PM
I was listening to a guy on the radio yesterday talking about self driving vehicles and how they had GPS to within 4 feet so they even  could avoid pot holes.  If that's the case how come my Garmin is off by a quarter mile sometimes ?

The GPS isn't wrong, its the obsolete database used to graphically illustrate your position in relation the the physical GPS position. I gave up on Garmin years ago, because their database updates are notoriously inadaquate. Grab any decent phone running Google maps and do a comparison. The difference is striking. In a congested area Google has their cars driving around updating the physical (as built) streets, and taking images for use in their software.

With self driving cars, the maps, provide only a route. The onboard sensors actually track the pavement, lines, vehicles, etc. to do the driving. I'd trust a computer over most human drivers any day. The biggest problem is like driving on snow and ice. You can't predict what the other vehicles will do. But I suspect, like TCAS in aircraft, that technology will actually get better so that when 2 driverless cars are on a collision course, they will communicate with each other to avoid an impact.
Title: Re: Tesla new Electric Truck
Post by: BradMarks on November 17, 2017, 05:07:47 PM
I saw where a self driving shuttle in Vegas crashed within 4 hrs of initial test run. Won't be in my fleet ;D
Title: Re: Tesla new Electric Truck
Post by: plantman on November 17, 2017, 07:12:12 PM
I don't care what they say, I'm not gonna get "chipped".
Title: Re: Tesla new Electric Truck
Post by: red on November 17, 2017, 07:18:04 PM
The truck looks interesting , but not available for about two years.
Title: Re: Tesla new Electric Truck
Post by: pineywoods on November 17, 2017, 07:30:38 PM
Think about how to charge a battery big enough to do that. Definitely won't be a 1 hour charge time with a plug-in charger.  ;D. 
Title: Re: Tesla new Electric Truck
Post by: red on November 17, 2017, 08:22:53 PM
Lithium Batteries under the trailer.  So all you need is to change trailers , all charged up ready to go. Elon Musk has that huge battery factory in Sparks Nevada , just cranking out batteries.
Title: Re: Tesla new Electric Truck
Post by: submarinesailor on November 17, 2017, 08:28:25 PM
Lithium Batteries under the trailer.  So all you need is to change trailers , all charged up ready to go. Elon Musk has that huge battery factory in Sparks Nevada , just cranking out batteries.

Red - I knew he was building it, but has it actually started producing batteries?

Bruce
Title: Re: Tesla new Electric Truck
Post by: sawguy21 on November 17, 2017, 11:29:55 PM
A little off topic but anyone see the roadster? 0-60 in 1.9 sec, 8.9 sec quarter mile and 250 miles per hour. :o I had better not drive it.  ;D I am not sold on the truck, we will just have to see if it becomes practical.
We had better get used to the new technology, it's coming whether we like it or not. Or we can be Luddites and rail against it while the world passes us by.  Our great grandparents resisted the telephone and the automobile and look what happened.
Title: Re: Tesla new Electric Truck
Post by: Grizzly on November 17, 2017, 11:38:41 PM
According to one article JB Hunt and Walmart are on the books for 1500 trucks. Of course it doesn't say how many years that's over or what terms and all that rot. But an actual order? Impressive.
Title: Re: Tesla new Electric Truck
Post by: Ianab on November 18, 2017, 12:00:07 AM
The truck will shine in things like city deliveries and shuttling containers from the port to local addresses. Might only do 100 miles a day, and much of it will be low speed stop start travel that electric vehicles excell at. So it has the range to run all day, zero energy use when it's stopped at the lights, and regen braking will recover a lot of the braking energy at the next set of lights. 

There is another system already in limited production that uses hybrid drive for longer range. Uses a gas turbine genset of maybe 200 hp to recharge the battery, but has ~600 hp of electric drive to the wheels. Electric and battery get the rig up to speed briskly enough, and plenty of torque to climb hills. The small genset provides enough power to keep up a steady cruise. Come to an uphill and the system can lean on the battery again, then when downhill there is extra power to recharge, and regen braking helps as well. Similar technology, but you can get in and drive without worrying about battery range.
Title: Re: Tesla new Electric Truck
Post by: Brucer on November 18, 2017, 01:05:49 AM
I saw where a self driving shuttle in Vegas crashed within 4 hrs of initial test run. Won't be in my fleet ;D

The shuttle was backed into by a human controlled truck :D :D.

Think about how to charge a battery big enough to do that. Definitely won't be a 1 hour charge time with a plug-in charger.  ;D. 

A thirty minute charge is good for 400 miles of travel (as opposed to 1000 miles for a diesel with a full tank).

Tesla is planning to build a grid of high speed charging stations to support the trucks. So ... what if they put charging stations in all the major depots in a region? Charge up your truck while it's being loaded/unloaded.

Title: Re: Tesla new Electric Truck
Post by: Ron Wenrich on November 18, 2017, 05:59:14 AM
I saw one estimation that the batteries will weigh 10 tons.  I don't know how accurate that is, but that would really cut into payload.  I also don't see them as a woods truck for hauling logs.

There is a lot of talk about charging stations, but I don't see any being built.  Musk says they will be solar powered.  How big of a solar field would you need to recharge rigs along the interstate?  What happens in places that get socked in with fog like along the Pacific coast?  Or where winter offers a lot of overcast and shorter days?  A lot of this seems like California engineering.  Toyota is already selling and using hydrogen hybrids in the LA area.  To me, hydrogen is a better alternative than an all electric.  No need for charging stations, less onboard battery storage. 

I think the self driving cars will be here sooner than we think.  Seeing how people are easily distracted and car mfg is putting more distraction at driver's fingertips, it seems like a smart move.  Uber has spent $680 million on self driving rigs.  They made a 120 mile beer run in October, 2016 for Budweiser.  I think there is a lot of room for the technology when put onto the interstate hauling.  Those rigs will run more at night than during the day.  I do know that self driving cars will be make a world of difference for old folks and people with disabilities that can't drive.  It opens up a whole new world for many.

If everyone were to go to electric vehicles, how much would the electric grid be able to handle?  Is there generating capacity?
Title: Re: Tesla new Electric Truck
Post by: John Mc on November 18, 2017, 08:24:53 AM
I read somewhere that Tesla already has the largest charging network in the US for electric vehicles. It's a proprietary system, and a major selling point for their cars. It takes some planning, but it's possible to drive long distances (e.g. coast to coast) in one of their cars. Of course these are car charging stations, not semis, but Tesla at least they recognize the need to develop the infrastructure - and are actually doing something about it.
Title: Re: Tesla new Electric Truck
Post by: ljohnsaw on November 18, 2017, 11:49:46 AM
If everyone were to go to electric vehicles, how much would the electric grid be able to handle?  Is there generating capacity?
That's the beauty of electrics.  The current electric grid has an abundance of base load units (large coal, oil or nuclear generators) that cannot swing their output quickly.  They take hours to shut down and even longer to start up (sometimes days).  So, the power companies keep them running all the time and shape their generation output with other smaller (and typically more expensive to run) units like gas fired.  There is always (cheap) hydro but, at least out here, the amount of energy you can get from that varies greatly year to year.

When the load drops off at night, power companies are a bit flush with power and often have to sell it to distant locations.  That is when you have the electrics recharging - at night - making use of that extra power.

Now, throw in all the solar.  Somewhat cheap - especially if the home-owner purchased and installed it.  Now the power companies need to have more gas fired units to take over the instant a cloud bank affects generation.  And then there is wind, even more variable.

In the long run with solar becoming more dominate, the grid will need some better storage options (huge battery banks?) so they can stop building gas units.
Title: Re: Tesla new Electric Truck
Post by: red on November 18, 2017, 04:21:00 PM
This was an event to introduce a " concept vehicle " . Also to be first at it and it did drive onto the stage .  Volvo car manufacturer said it will only produce electric cars in 2019 , you can bet Volvo trucks will not be far behind.  Lots of variables but it is very close to being put into production.  I think Elon Musk is like PT Barnum he has his hands in many new and futuristic projects. This truck was supposed to be introduced earlier in the year , but they helped Porto Rico with some solar setups .  A long time ago we had electric milk trucks . I believe the range is 500 miles and pickup another trailer to go another 500 .
Title: Re: Tesla new Electric Truck
Post by: red on November 18, 2017, 04:53:24 PM
Imagine plugging your LT 70 electric into your Tesla . . .
Title: Re: Tesla new Electric Truck
Post by: red on November 18, 2017, 05:24:26 PM
Charges from zero to 80% in 30 minutes
Title: Re: Tesla new Electric Truck
Post by: Crusarius on November 20, 2017, 12:23:35 PM
eastview mall, in Victor NY. has a Tesla charging station in the parking lot. From a distance it looks like about 10 spots. I have seen it being used.
Title: Re: Tesla new Electric Truck
Post by: Mooseherder on November 20, 2017, 01:56:22 PM
There are charging stations at Rest Areas on the Florida Turnpike.  I haven't seen them anywhere traveling I-95 though.
Perhaps each Municipality is going to have them soon or in the Planning.
Title: Re: Tesla new Electric Truck
Post by: brianJ on November 20, 2017, 05:36:43 PM
Destiny USA in Syracuse has about a dozen parkingspots for recharging.
Title: Re: Tesla new Electric Truck
Post by: Brucer on November 21, 2017, 01:17:43 AM
The City of Rossland (population 3500, more or less) has had 2 public charging stations for several years now ;D.

Title: Re: Tesla new Electric Truck
Post by: 4x4American on November 21, 2017, 06:11:44 AM
eastview mall, in Victor NY. has a Tesla charging station in the parking lot. From a distance it looks like about 10 spots. I have seen it being used.


Aviation Mall in Queensbury NY has one too, I thought it was one of those vacuum stations until one day I seen a family plugging in a tesla and then going into the mall to conduct serious business.
Title: Re: Tesla new Electric Truck
Post by: Ron Wenrich on November 21, 2017, 06:44:35 AM
They're pretty sparse in my area.  There is one in Harrisburg, the state capital.  Hershey has 4.  2 are at the Tanger's outlet mall.  One is at Hershey Park, and the other is at the Hotel Hershey.  All the others in the area are at car dealers.  The city of Philadelphia has a grand total of 13.  My county has none and none are in several of the adjoining counties.  There are 22 in the state of Delaware.  North Dakota has none.

Here's Tesla's map:  https://www.teslarati.com/map/

My understanding of the Tesla truck is that it is using 4 Tesla motors for power.  Those are rated at a 192 kW usage.  I looked at some other sites, and they are speculating roughly 1200 kW battery capacity for a 600 mile trip.  Estimated cost for the battery is $100/kWh or $120,000..  The estimated electricity usage is about .5 kWh/mile. 

The Tesla megacharger is rated at 1.6 Megs.  That's what is needed to charge a Tesla in 30 minutes for a range of 400 miles.  I'm thinking that the average truck stop is going to need quite a few of these chargers.  To produce 1 Meg of electricity with solar, it would take 4 acres of solar cells.  It would vary due to location.  1 charger would need minimum of 6.5 acres of solar cells.  That's a lot of land needed to power the megacharger with juice through solar.  Especially when you consider that you're using prime real estate to construct one.  Maybe I'm missing something.
Title: Re: Tesla new Electric Truck
Post by: red on November 21, 2017, 08:19:58 AM
There are many solar panels above parking lots or on rooftops . Our local UPS building has six million dollars worth of panels on the roof top. Also colleges and shoping malls . They seem to be showing up everywhere.
Title: Re: Tesla new Electric Truck
Post by: Crusarius on November 21, 2017, 08:28:31 AM
here is a crazy idea. Inductive charging stations built into the long lonely desert roads. charge your car while you drive :)

The roads would be solar cells.
Title: Re: Tesla new Electric Truck
Post by: Gearbox on November 21, 2017, 08:51:04 AM
Ron there will never will be a free lunch . The trucks may work for line haul freight but never for heavy freight or logs [ to heavy ] . Trucking company' s may load light going out then have to haul 40 000 back not going to happen .
Title: Re: Tesla new Electric Truck
Post by: ljohnsaw on November 21, 2017, 10:38:07 AM
The Tesla megacharger is rated at 1.6 Megs.  That's what is needed to charge a Tesla in 30 minutes for a range of 400 miles.  I'm thinking that the average truck stop is going to need quite a few of these chargers.  To produce 1 Meg of electricity with solar, it would take 4 acres of solar cells.  It would vary due to location.  1 charger would need minimum of 6.5 acres of solar cells.  That's a lot of land needed to power the megacharger with juice through solar.  Especially when you consider that you're using prime real estate to construct one.  Maybe I'm missing something.
Well, in California, years ago, Home Depot separated from the grid as I was told by a PG&E employee that actually did it in my area.  They run off of fuel cells.  Apparently, HD got such a screaming deal on natural gas that it was a no-brainer for them.  Until Dark Silicon becomes the standard, fuel cells may be the interim solution.
Title: Re: Tesla new Electric Truck
Post by: Grizzly on November 21, 2017, 11:51:14 AM
The boys and I were talking about this some on the weekend. A couple of things were brought out.
Electric cars were first an idea about 40 years ago? But it simply wasn't practical because battery technology wasn't up to the job. About 30 years ago or so I remember a car platform being tested but due to battery weight it could not pass any safety tests. 10 years ago battery technology improved to the point that an electric car became practical for urban areas where the car would primarily be used for commuting to work and back or simply for use within a short distance from home. Now it has improved again where electric cars have a range of use where they will become practical for many more uses.

The truck has come on the scene and its journey to practical use will be shorter than the cars as it can follow an existing technology trail. But it is still some distance away from being able to take over from diesel or natural gas. Like has been lifted out; distance between service points for diesel is one number and distance between natural gas service points is another. The diesel network has been established over 70 years? The natural gas network wasn't there in 2001 when I was all over North America but I see it in many truckstops now. So as technology improves over the next 20 years, where will we see the electric truck? Who knows? But it will certainly be different than what we see now.
Title: Re: Tesla new Electric Truck
Post by: Ron Wenrich on November 21, 2017, 12:27:14 PM
I think the hydrogen hybrids are a bit better fit for trucks.  Easier to fuel, and longer range.  Use the solar to make fuel.  The hydrogen acts as a battery for storing energy.  Less weight for the battery array.  But, Tesla isn't making hybrids.  His business model is to make and sell batteries and to fuel cars. 

To replace cars and trucks to electricity would take 1,111 Terrawatts or an increase of about 29% in electric production.  I know there is a bridge necessary to get to that point.  That's a lot of infrastructure that needs to be constructed.
Title: Re: Tesla new Electric Truck
Post by: starmac on November 21, 2017, 09:23:56 PM
I have heard that Tesla would be out of business in 24 hours if govt money was cut off, true or not I do not know.

The self drivibng cars have been on the market for at least a couple of years. I have a friend here that has had one for that long. Great car, powerful and fast, but you can't make it to the next town, so worthless here as far as I am concerned.
Iirc it has been at least a couple of years since on of Elon Musks personal friends bought one and got killed in it in Florida, I think. Apparently the sun was shining on the side of a white semi van just right and the cars computer didn't recognize it as something to slow down for.
As far as electric trucks becoming the norm, hmmm I doubt many of us will live to see it.
Title: Re: Tesla new Electric Truck
Post by: Stuart Caruk on November 22, 2017, 01:59:30 AM
I want to see how everyone plans to actually charge these electric vehicles if they ever become mainstream. Tesla recommends a 400 amp panel at 240 volts in most houses. In my area, most houses have 200 amp services, some only 100 amp. What happens when 30 houses on the block all get Teslas? The service into the area and transformers is simply inadaquate for the need....

Onesee twoseeies, sure no problem. Mainstream... good luck.
Title: Re: Tesla new Electric Truck
Post by: Ianab on November 22, 2017, 04:02:32 AM
The "home" charge stations don't need to be as fast because you plug the car in overnight. Recharge in 30 mins needs a LOT less current than recharge in 10 hours. So the home charge station probably draws about as much power as a kitchen stove, just for a few more hours. You need a decent feed because you come home, plug in the car, then start cooking dinner.

Yes the power utilities will need to adjust to suit the extra load and different profiles. But not everyone is going to buy an electric car next week.
Title: Re: Tesla new Electric Truck
Post by: John Mc on November 22, 2017, 01:55:27 PM
Recharge in 30 mins needs a LOT less current than recharge in 10 hours.

Good point, but I think you expressed it backwards: Recharge in 30 mins needs a LOT more current than recharge in 10 hours.
Title: Re: Tesla new Electric Truck
Post by: starmac on November 22, 2017, 09:17:35 PM
Would anyone really want an all electric vehicle for their only vehicle?? I can see too many scenarios where I would not.
My friend here that has a tesla basically can not leave town, because it doesn't have the capacity to get to anchorage even if there was a charging station there. As far as I am concerned it is a high priced conversation piece. when it breaks he will also have to send it out to the lower 48 to get any repair done to it, making it an even bigger and higher priced conversation piece.
Maybe for folks in different areas, that never, ever have a need for a vehicle in an emergency it would be different.
Title: Re: Tesla new Electric Truck
Post by: brianJ on November 25, 2017, 07:57:20 AM
@Stamac    I agree a Tesla in Alsaka is illogical.    In the lower 48 not as much.   I am Thankful for theose who seek neighborhodstatus rather than frugality or otherwise known as early adopters.    Their varied and broad experiences are needed to work out the bugs of this new technology.
Title: Re: Tesla new Electric Truck
Post by: red on December 19, 2017, 08:03:38 PM
UPS orders 125 Tesla Big Rig Trucks
Title: Re: Tesla new Electric Truck
Post by: plantman on December 19, 2017, 10:14:46 PM
I saw a analyst on TV talking about how Tesla is way behind the curve with electric trucks. Mercedes is already producing them.
Title: Re: Tesla new Electric Truck
Post by: starmac on December 19, 2017, 11:48:36 PM
The Mercedes trucks are smaller city trucks, heavier than diesel and have a payload of 12.8 tons.
120 miles is all they can do, so pretty much city half day trucks.

The tesla trucks run 200 grand a piece, maybe I should grab a handfull.
Title: Re: Tesla new Electric Truck
Post by: Ianab on December 20, 2017, 02:33:40 AM
I saw a analyst on TV talking about how Tesla is way behind the curve with electric trucks. Mercedes is already producing them.

To be fair Electric cars and trucks have been around for a LONG time (late 1800s?). According to Wikipedia in 1900 40% of the vehicles in the US were electric. Not to say they were very good, but that new fangled gas stuff was pretty unreliable, and gas stations weren't common.

It's just recently that with improved technology, they have become more practical, and have started to catch up with gas engine vehicles.

For a local delivery truck, a 200 mile range is probably plenty, especially if it's a lot of slow speed driving that electric vehicles are so good at. Neighbour delivers ice cream to local shops and supermarkets. His whole run might be 100 miles, but takes all day with all the stops at every corner store and unloading.  Now the "line haul" guys, who might drive 200 miles, swap trailers, and drive straight back? Not quite there yet for them. A hybrid truck might be more suited.
Title: Re: Tesla new Electric Truck
Post by: Grizzly on December 20, 2017, 01:21:00 PM
referencing starmacs eld thread.

Our longhaul guys who can take a load anywhere from 1200 miles to 3600 miles (my longest run was from China Lake AFB to Goose Bay, Labrador) and fill an 11 hour work day need range in the 650 mile area in order to make best use of allowed hours. Then they'll need to plug in during their 10 hour rest period to be ready to do it again. We're not there yet but i see lots of opportunity on the eastern seaboard stateside.
Title: Re: Tesla new Electric Truck
Post by: starmac on December 20, 2017, 02:14:33 PM
I guess my longest trip one way was Daytona beach Florida to Anchorage Ak. I do not recall the exact miles, but a tad over 5000 iirc. I won't say how long it took, but it would have shorted out an eld. lol
Title: Re: Tesla new Electric Truck
Post by: Grizzly on December 20, 2017, 02:54:49 PM
We call those the good ol days starmac.  ;)
Title: Re: Tesla new Electric Truck
Post by: BradMarks on December 20, 2017, 05:04:26 PM
In reference to less reliance on fossil fuels and more use of "renewables" in vehicles, HOW is it going to be done??  Here in Oregon it will rammed down your throat, no kidding, at taxpayers expense. By executive order (the governor - bless her >:() has mandated that in just a couple years, ALL new home construction WILL have a charging station (each home). Tremendous increase in housing costs at a time it's becoming less affordable for so many. And how do we increase the % of electric vehicles on the road?  State gov't orders 50,000 of them over the next decade (my/our money) and will construct a statewide grid (again my/our money) of charging stations to service them.  That isn't free enterprise at all and lends well to the "out of business in 24 hrs" without subsidies statement.  Oh, and you want to buy a new gasoline vehicle, come to Oregon and pay a "privilege" tax beginning Jan 1.   :new_year:
Title: Re: Tesla new Electric Truck
Post by: Crusarius on December 21, 2017, 07:34:50 AM
It is crazy. I feel that the government just continues to take take take. When are they going to give back? Or just stop taking more?
Title: Re: Tesla new Electric Truck
Post by: dgdrls on December 23, 2017, 03:07:20 PM
https://www.plugshare.com

My good friend has a Chevy Volt.
Apps/sites like above are valuable for E-cars

In regard to the Tesla truck, Nicola released an actual working hybrid truck based on Hydrogen fuel.

https://nikolamotor.com

D
Title: Re: Tesla new Electric Truck
Post by: florida on January 09, 2018, 08:58:11 AM
Smith has been making electric trucks for 75 years for short-haul deliveries. The market for them is infinitesimal. Look for the subsidies on the Tesla trucks. Musk's main business is mining subsidies from American taxpayers, not building cars or trucks. 
Title: Re: Tesla new Electric Truck
Post by: rjwoelk on January 09, 2018, 09:31:28 AM
Yes they will make charging stations all over the place. Then the gov will be able to set them up to add a road tax to that charging unit. Then the so call ed cheep fuel will be gone. This was what happened to propane in our neck of the woods. Killed it.
Title: Re: Tesla new Electric Truck
Post by: starmac on January 09, 2018, 03:08:47 PM
DIND,DING, Florida nailed it.

rjwoelk, the goal has never been and never will be cheaper fuel to the green crowd, it just needs to be green  at any cost.
Title: Re: Tesla new Electric Truck
Post by: reelman65 on January 09, 2018, 03:16:27 PM
DIND,DING, Florida nailed it.

rjwoelk, the goal has never been and never will be cheaper fuel to the green crowd, it just needs to be green  at any cost.

I read somewhere that he is into the US taxpayer for between 4-5 billion $
Title: Re: Tesla new Electric Truck
Post by: starmac on January 09, 2018, 05:22:26 PM
Like most green energy companies, I suspect that he one day will take the few million that he has squirreled away of taxpayers money, excluding the kickbacks to the right politicians and quietly disappear, and Tesla will just be a memory. That will not happen until the gov money dries up though.