So on the wm web site it says capacity: 36"dia. X 21' long. I find this kind of misleading. I understand not all logs are created equal, but today I rolled a Doug Fir on the loading arms that was 30"x16'4" and the mill wouldn't even budge it. I cut a 16" round off the butt, then it loaded it, but barely. Did I get a wimpy mill or is this pretty common?
Using your dimensions and the weight calculator in the tool box to the left it says the log weighs 5640 pounds.
I believe that that is more than the mill log loader is rated for.
Hopefully someone with more knowledge will be along soon.
Gerald
4400 lbs is weight maximum. Although mine seems to load a bit more. If the loader barely picks it up then I have to use the clamp and claw together to have any hope of turning it.
Somewhere Magic man shows how he helps the loader load the heavy ones.
Just thinking - Were there other factors involved? What was the temperature? If cold weather was a factor have you followed the specs for cold weather hydraulics maintenance and use? I find my mill will easily load a much bigger log than it will easily turn. With real big ones have to use the claw and clamp to inch them into place.
On logs that big I never use the loading arms.
#1. I don't have time to figure weight.
#2. Over the years I have become pretty dog gone good at loading a big log onto my mill with the forks of the backhoe. I can gently roll a log right off the forks onto my mill with very little disturbance.
Practice makes perfect. :)
But to answer your question...no you didn't get a wimpy mill. Just learn what it can and can't do.
I have sawn a 39 inch Poplar log before. If he remembers right, I called Magicman by phone before I loaded it to see what my chances were.....I did it!....and loaded the log on the mill with my forks.
Quote from: Crossroads on December 16, 2017, 08:31:51 PM
So on the wm web site it says capacity: 36”dia. X 21’ long. I find this kind of misleading. I understand not all logs are created equal, but today I rolled a Doug Fir on the loading arms that was 30”x16’4” and the mill wouldn’t even budge it. I cut a 16” round off the butt, then it loaded it, but barely. Did I get a wimpy mill or is this pretty common?
I am no expert (at all)but I think the web site capacity that refers to the diameter and length, only mean that is what the mill will cut. Not that the hydraulics would handle a log that weighs as much as a 36" diameter by 21' long log would weigh. I am sure there are more learned folks that can clarify.
I hadn't seen the 4400# rating. Still think it's miss leading to say the capacity is 36"x21'. I guess I'll use the weight limits going forward.
All logs are not created equal. I have only sawed spruce, and it is not or doesn't seem to be near as heavy as some other woods.Like I said, Magic Man has had threads where he has shown how to use your clamp in conjunction with the loader to solve your problem.
Quote from: starmac on December 16, 2017, 10:34:06 PM
All logs are not created equal. I have only sawed spruce, and it is not or doesn't seem to be near as heavy as some other woods.Like I said, Magic Man has had threads where he has shown how to use your clamp in conjunction with the loader to solve your problem.
I made a hook to use the clamp to roll logs onto the arms, it didn't seem to help getting that log off the ground. After I cut the 16" off the loader lifted it by itself though.
Did it roll the log up the loading arms at all? It is possible that your hydraulic pressure is low.
Quote from: starmac on December 17, 2017, 01:30:33 AM
Did it roll the log up the loading arms at all? It is possible that your hydraulic pressure is low.
No, the hydraulics bypassed right away.
Quote from: GAB on December 16, 2017, 08:41:15 PM
Using your dimensions and the weight calculator in the tool box to the left it says the log weighs 5640 pounds.
I believe that that is more than the mill log loader is rated for.
Hopefully someone with more knowledge will be along soon.
Gerald
Must have clicked on the wrong species!
I used the tool box log weight calculator and it says a 30"X16.33' Douglas Fir will weigh 3,046 pounds and will be 80.16 cubic feet.
If your loader wouldn't load it, there has to be something wrong with the hydraulic system!
I do not think that it is misleading at all. Length, diameter, or weight; if any of the three are exceeded you are over the limits of the sawmill. I recently was asking about my ability of handle a 16 foot 35" diameter White Oak log. That monster would weight over 6K pounds! I didn't get the log so it didn't matter anyway, but even though it was "smaller" than the specs, I could not have loaded it with my sawmill. I really doubt that I could have turned it either.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/2410/DSCN0488_%28Small%29.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1267041267)
I do use my log clamp in conjunction with the loader to load "too" heavy logs.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/2410/DSCN0489_%28Small%29.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1267041267)
The log clamp is rolling and keeping the log closer to the loader pivot point which increases it's lifting ability.
Thanks for double checking Chuck. You are right, the loader should have easily loaded that log.
The capacity to wich you relate to is sawing capacity, not how much a log weighs, there is no way to relate the weight of all logs to all species of wood out there. The lifting capacity of your mill is well defined in the owners manual. :P :P :P
You would really have a problem if you was cutting Black Ironwood.
That tree weights 84.5 lbs/ft.
Water weighs 62.3 pounds per cubic foot at room temperature
(70 degrees F), so this wood will sink in water.
An oak log weights about 45 pounds per cubic foot.
Douglas Fir weighs 33 lbs per cubic foot.
I didn't have an owners manual before I wrote a check for $31k, so I had no idea whAt was "well defined" in it! The only information I had was the spec page on the wm web site. Which says nothing about a weight limit for the loader. Maybe if it had said: 36"x21' or a max weight of 4,400# my expectations would have been different.
You have a point.
The LT40 Build and Price starting page has a box titled specifications, and the first line says "Log Capacity 36" x 21'". Not what that really means.
Only if it is balsa wood.
I think Chuck is right. There's something wrong if it won't lift that.
Quote from: Chuck White on December 17, 2017, 08:38:39 AM
Quote from: GAB on December 16, 2017, 08:41:15 PM
Using your dimensions and the weight calculator in the tool box to the left it says the log weighs 5640 pounds.
I believe that that is more than the mill log loader is rated for.
Hopefully someone with more knowledge will be along soon.
Gerald
Must have clicked on the wrong species!
I used the tool box log weight calculator and it says a 30"X16.33' Douglas Fir will weigh 3,046 pounds and will be 80.16 cubic feet.
If your loader wouldn't load it, there has to be something wrong with the hydraulic system!
I'm getting 3867 lb for a 30" x 16' doug fir, coast type, here http://www.woodweb.com/cgi-bin/calculators/calc.pl
I'd guess the loader would start to slow down a bit loading 3867 pounds but agree that to not move at all something's wrong.
I used the log weight calculator here, in the Forestry Forum tool box!
"I used the tool box log weight calculator and it says a 30"X16.33' Douglas Fir will weigh 3,046 pounds and will be 80.16 cubic feet."
The log was 16'4" long which is 16.33'! That is the .33 part is equal to 4", has to be decimal to work on the log calculator!
It is pretty much established that something is up with your hydraulics, but something to think about as far as cutting capacity. What would you consider fair for them to advertise the capacity of an lt40 with no hydraulics??
I see that. The two calculators are about 900 pounds different for a 16 x 30 DF log.
Quote from: starmac on December 17, 2017, 02:51:03 PM
It is pretty much established that something is up with your hydraulics, but something to think about as far as cutting capacity. What would you consider fair for them to advertise the capacity of an lt40 with no hydraulics??
I get what your saying, but is a manual mill limited to 4,400#? I don't think it's unreasonable to ask that the weight limit be included in the capacity. Since the hydraulic loader is the limiting factor on what can be loaded onto the mill without support equipment to load the logs.
Like I said, if your clamp never even tried to help couple with the fact that the log is below the weight limit anyway, there is something going on with your hydraulics.
Many times I have seen folks post that their loader exceeds the 4400 pound limit.
I wonder too what the temps were when you tried to lift it and also did you warm the hydraulics up first or go straight to trying to lift the log?
Quote from: starmac on December 17, 2017, 03:55:03 PM
Like I said, if your clamp never even tried to help couple with the fact that the log is below the weight limit anyway, there is something going on with your hydraulics.
Many times I have seen folks post that their loader exceeds the 4400 pound limit.
I wonder too what the temps were when you tried to lift it and also did you warm the hydraulics up first or go straight to trying to lift the log?
The temps were in the mid to upper 40's and this was the second log of the day, so I would think the hydraulics should have been warm.
A long shot, but make sure that your levers aren't hitting on the cover to the hydraulic box. My levers got out of adjustment this summer and if you can't stroke the valve all the way they can't make full pressure. They are easy to adjust, all you have to do is loosen the lock nut and then you can rotate the handle just a little bit.
I agree the 36 inch by 21 foot log capacity could be a little bit misleading. I think they're simply trying to state the largest diameter and the largest length not that you can have both a 36-in and 21 foot long log. I know in older sales material they do list the weight of 4400.
Your hydraulics should have been plenty warm then, something else going on.
I agree the lift capacity should be in the spec chart on them, I don't agree that the lift diminishes the size of log that the mill will cut. Many times on this forum members have shown how to get around the 36 and 21 foot figures to cut both larger and longer logs, the mill will handle it.
I've never exceeded the 4400 lb spec per bed section. If you are then you shouldn't expect the mail to be able to handle it as far as loading and turning. That's not to say that the mill can't handle the weight, but you've exceeded the design specification of the hydraulic system. As has been mentioned, many people have cut some pretty huge logs and as long as you're careful it shouldn't be an issue.
Hopefully this is a simple issue to resolve your hydraulic pressure problems. I'm quite sure that the loading arms are going to lift that log pretty easily if it's under 4,000 pounds.
I have a job later this month near the wm dealer, I'll see if I can get in to have the pressure tested.
Is there a gauge under the cover of the hydraulic box? My LT40 Super has one plumbed in and I can see the pressure when I run the hydraulics. I have to take the cover off to see it.
mine too, goes to max when hydraulic actuated.
I like the idea of a hydraulic pressure guage!
I couldn't find a pic in my gallery, but its just a blade tension gauge teed into the pressure line.
I'll check Dave, but I think I remember reading in the manual directions for installing the gauge as if there wasn't one in place yet. It's going to be a couple days before I can get at it since I'm back to my day job for a few days.
I would be looking at the electrical system. That hydraulic pump runs off a 12 volt dc motor, and it loves lots of amps. Weak battery, corroded battery cables, poor contact on the rail brush, especially the one on the bottom of the frame. etc.
Quote from: pineywoods on December 17, 2017, 09:47:24 PM
I would be looking at the electrical system. That hydraulic pump runs off a 12 volt dc motor, and it loves lots of amps. Weak battery, corroded battery cables, poor contact on the rail brush, especially the one on the bottom of the frame. etc.
That's definitely a possibility, but I'm leaning towards the relief valve being out of adjustment because I can hear it bypassing. If the pressure checks out ok, I'll start cleaning conectors.
If you start looking at connections, check the contact strip. If the head is moving when you use the hydraulics it will get arced badly. The contact block could be out of adjustment, too.
Hopefully it is something simple, I know the brushes in the motor can go bad as well.
I know I have seen guys mention on here that the loader on the woodmizers are rated to 4400 pounds, but I can't find any mention of weight limit anywhere on the wood mizer sight, where are you guys finding it?
If the relief valve is bypassing, then it would be important and fairly quick and easy to mount a pressure gauge on the pump output line. That will answer a lot.
I talked to my wm rep. This morning and he says my mill is only rated at 3900#.
I found a gauge today, I'll try to track down the fittings tomorrow, so I can verify the pressure. That should answer some questions.
The mills only 2 1/2 months old with 50 hours on it now, I hope the brushes aren't worn out already, but stranger things have happened.
Yea, with it being that new, I doubt it is the brushes, or any other wear related item. I would lean more to something out of adjustment, or a loose /bad connection. Sometimes something like that can be a pain to track down, hopefully all goes smooth.
3900 #? smiley_headscratch Its the same bed and log loader as the Super. Having only one pump just means its slower.
He said he would ask some questions at headquarters and call me back. Hopefully he has something encouraging to share. Kinda tough being at work today, I'd really like to be playing with the mill.
The theory of what a log should way only gets one so far. I've loaded oversized old growth fir on my LT35 that my 8500# forklift wouldn't touch without tipping over. Had to put it on the log deck with the log loader...
Theory and actual practise are 2 different things.
At all of the WM owners days that I have attended, the weight rating for an LT40 has been 4400lbs.
I have looked over their website pretty hard the last couple of days, and have not found any rating at all as far as a weight limit on any of their mills. What ever it is, it is not as far as I can tell advertised on their site.
Looking at my 2017 WoodMizer "Portable Sawmills and Wood Processing Equipment" catalog specifications page (page 32) footnote #1 says "Maximum log capacity for the LT28 and larger mills are 4400 lbs (1,995 kg)" and footnote #3 says "Loading of logs heavier than 4400 lbs (1,995 kg [BX equipped mills] requires auxiliary loading equipment."
I don't know where someone came up with a 3,900 lb weight limit figure.
So, does that mean the mill itself is rated for 4400 pounds or the loader, to my way of thinking it sounds like the loader.
Is it possible that both numbers 3900 & 4400 are both correct?
Where 3900 is the PSI rating of the pump and 4400 is the weight of the logs it can lift.
PSI x the area of the cylinder divided by the ratio of the arm length = lift capability in pounds.
Gerald
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on December 21, 2017, 08:23:16 PM
Looking at my 2017 WoodMizer "Portable Sawmills and Wood Processing Equipment" catalog specifications page (page 32) footnote #1 says "Maximum log capacity for the LT28 and larger mills are 4400 lbs (1,995 kg)" and footnote #3 says "Loading of logs heavier than 4400 lbs (1,995 kg [BX equipped mills] requires auxiliary loading equipment."
I don't know where someone came up with a 3,900 lb weight limit figure.
I was just looking through my 2017 Wood-Mizer catalog, at the LT-40HD specifications!
The specs list Log Capacity, Max width of cut, production capability, and weight!
The weight lists 3,900 pounds, I would assume that this is the weight OF the sawmill itself, and not the loading capacity!
I can't find anything on the lifting capacity, but have been told in the past by Wood-Mizer people that the lifting capacity of the loader is 4,400 pounds.
I looked up the weight on my catalog and you are correct - 3900 lbs is the weight of the sawmill (LT40HD). The lifting capacity was only addressed in the footnote in my catalog.
Quote from: GAB on December 22, 2017, 11:08:35 AM
Is it possible that both numbers 3900 & 4400 are both correct?
Where 3900 is the PSI rating of the pump and 4400 is the weight of the logs it can lift.
PSI x the area of the cylinder divided by the ratio of the arm length = lift capability in pounds.
Gerald
Not only do you make awesome maple syrup, you can do some serious guzzintas as well 😂😂
Rechecked my catalog and it's there, Max log capacity 4,400 pounds!
So, it is written!
Now we know the rest of the story! ;D
After 4 days of waiting for a call back, I got impatient and called back after I put a gauge on and found out I have 2200psi. Rep. Confirmed that's what it should be. So, either I have a wimpy loader or the weight calculator is more than 30% off. I think I'll call Indy next week to see what they say about it. I may just have to adjust my expectations. So far I really like most everything else about this machine.
I'm guessing you have a very heavy log. Wondering if you could post diameter inside the bark at both ends, whether it's perfectly round or not and whether it's bigger or smaller in the center than at the ends.
It is possible you got a heavy for species log too, I do not know what causes it, but know for a fact that some logs are just heavier than others.
The first load of logs I hauled after buying my truck, was also the first ever.
It was also the first load that particular logger had ever loaded, he took 3 hours to load my truck, made sure every stick was perfectly straight and pretty much turned every other butt to make it level, choosing just where to place different diameter logs to leave as little air space as possible.
Like I said, we are both as green as the logs, so I had no idea how to set and calibrate my scales, were flying blind here as far as weight, so he just rounded the load up as high as possible over my extension stakes.
When I got to the scale I ask what I weighed and was almost 2 tons below gross, so I think sweet, I can't overload with these logs.
The next day he threw a load on not worrying about air space, trying to get me out in somewhat of a timely matter and didn't go above the stakes as way finished a deck and would have to move the loader to put just a few more logs on, I pulled in the scales all fat, dumb and happy, cuz it is no possible way I could be even close to gross, and out comes a voice on my speaker, telling me to come in and bring my paperwork, I have a little weight problem.
Lesson learned the expensive way, all logs of a given species do not weigh the same.
Been there, done that, starmac. After a fine, the cost of putting on board scales (air pressure suspension weighing gauges) looks like a good investment. Have to park a LT40 on a scale and then load a log and see what it says. :)
I didn't measure the butt end, the butt did have a bit of oval shape. Hopefully, it was just a heavy log.
Kevin,
Did you end up sawing it and were the boards heavy for their size? Wondering if there is lot of pitch in it would add to the weight.
Quote from: KirkD on December 23, 2017, 10:20:36 AM
Kevin,
Did you end up sawing it and were the boards heavy for their size? Wondering if there is lot of pitch in it would add to the weight.
I did end up milling it, but instead of 16' beams the customer ended up with 14' beams. Most of the log went to 4x12's which looked pretty heavy from the controls of the mill ;) The customer provided 2 strapping young lads to do all of the lifting, so I'm not sure if it was any heavier than the rest of the logs.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43396/9B82C6A3-D0C7-4B74-8914-49766DF8D295.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1514047853)
If there's some taper in that log and 30" was the narrow end, the woodweb weight estimator for 30" at one end, 34" at the other, would come out to about 4500# for a 16-1/2' coast type DF log.
I guess that solves the riddle then, cutting roughly 16" off should drop it below the 4400 mark. Thanks