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General Forestry => Firewood and Wood Heating => Topic started by: Woodcutter_Mo on February 04, 2018, 11:22:03 AM

Title: 3 point wood splitters
Post by: Woodcutter_Mo on February 04, 2018, 11:22:03 AM
 Hello, I was curious about what people think of the wood splitters that mount on the tractors 3ph and run off the aux hydraulics. I've seen a few used ones for sale for pretty reasonable prices.
 My thoughts are it would be one less engine to have to worry about, and my tractor is fairly easy on fuel and could be easily taken deep into the woods anywhere the tractor will go. The main problem would be extra hours on the tractor engine (though they would be easy hours) and the tractor would have to go where the splitter is to be used which isn't a big deal. And I could always convert it to be self powered later on if I wanted.

 What are everyone else's thoughts on them?
Title: Re: 3 point wood splitters
Post by: DDW_OR on February 04, 2018, 11:45:24 AM
Good concept, but what are you going to use to move the logs or rounds?
I have a 3-point splitter that is used to split what the Multitek 1610EZ cannot split. about 2%
Title: Re: 3 point wood splitters
Post by: 47sawdust on February 04, 2018, 11:50:41 AM
There is a reason they are for sale at reasonable prices.The ones that run off tractor hyd. are slow.Unless you have multiple tractors I would pass.
Title: Re: 3 point wood splitters
Post by: 1countryboy on February 04, 2018, 11:52:47 AM
My thoughts: 
Do you have and extra (small hp tractor)  check out tractor data for fuel consumption. 
What is the hyd. capacity.

Or would it be better to put a loader and 3 pt carrier on that tractor and bring the wood to a splitter out of the woods?  and use a regular splitter

If you take tractor, with splitter deep in the woods then u need that truck to load firewood also deep in the woods.

In my case i do use a pto wood processor on an extra tractor that's dedicated to the unit.  I do not need a power unit on the machine. That's extra cost and another engine. 

I see that you have a dodge with a bale unroller?   I am making the assumption that you have some extra machinery available and bet u have a loader.  I bring my firewood to me in log form and process in a central location.   Advantage is that am close to extra equipment and the shop.  Main disadvantage is clean up of wood chip, bark etc.

List your pros and then the cons.
or
flip a coin.  :D

How much firewood
Title: Re: 3 point wood splitters
Post by: jason.weir on February 04, 2018, 11:59:38 AM
running off the tractor hydraulics most likely be slow, unless you have high flow aux hydraulics.

If you get one that runs off a PTO pump you can properly size the pump so they are not slow, but they run @ 540RPM and that usually means the tractor is pretty wound up and won't be easy on fuel.

If you've got enough pto horsepower you could probably gear up the pump to 540 at idle or just off idle but you'd have to build that, it's not something you're gonna buy off the shelf.

-J

Title: Re: 3 point wood splitters
Post by: Tin Horse on February 04, 2018, 12:28:59 PM
I agree with "let the machines do the work". My back doesn't like lifting wood blocks off the ground anymore. I still use a custom built 2 way tow able splitter with a 13 hp honda on it. Had it for 30 years and it splits fast and any size nearly. Recently purchased a Bell 1000 processor and love it. Can set one or both leaving my Kioti 7320 free to load. From what I've seem PTO splitters are to slow. Check your flow rates.
Title: Re: 3 point wood splitters
Post by: TKehl on February 04, 2018, 01:35:29 PM
We use one that runs off a PTO pump.  Tractor is left at idle and pump is oversized.  Can't say that is "right", and it's still not a speed demon, but it's as much as dad and I want to handle with my 8 year old running the lever. 

Ours the beam lays on the ground, so we spit a couple smaller ones the right size to make a ramp to roll the real big ones up. 

Best advice is to get one where the block moves and the wedge is stationary.  With enough travel, you can push a partial split on through with the next stroke.  When the wedge travels and a stick sticks, it can damage the cylinder.

Verticals are nice, but will (most) always have the wedge on the cylinder. 

Ours has a lot of power, but still occasionally will stick a piece on the wedge.  Having a chain hook welded on the block to pull a stuck piece is worth GOLD.  No amount of beating with a sledge will pop it loose.  I've tried.   ;)

I keep thinking about one of the screw splitters mounted to the arm of the backhoe though.   :)
Title: Re: 3 point wood splitters
Post by: Gearbox on February 04, 2018, 01:58:50 PM
I will give my 2 cents . First if you don't have high pressure hydraulic system you will not be able to split as much as a stand alone with a 2 stage pump [3000 PSI] . Second with a PTO driven pump at low engine speed will you have enough HP at 1000 RPM to peg the output PSI without stalling the tractor . You can get a larger cylinder to make up for the lower PSI . Good luck with your quest .
Title: Re: 3 point wood splitters
Post by: JBlain on February 04, 2018, 02:33:25 PM
My dad bought a used 3 pt that ran off hydraulics and it was very slow. He sold it within a few months.  I bought a commercial grade 3 pt with a pto driven 20 gpm pump and love it.   It can split anything I throw at it at about 1200-1400 rpm which is know where near the rpm you need to turn 540 and much easier on fuel.  I didn't realize how slow the 2 stage smaller pumps on gas splitters are since I split a lot of ugly wood until I got this big single stage pump. 

Title: Re: 3 point wood splitters
Post by: thecfarm on February 04, 2018, 03:16:56 PM
I have one of those vertical,horizontal splitters. That critter gets used alot. I split the wood,than throw it in the bucket. Just saying. I have no idea what you have for trailers to put wood into. I have a 3 point winch to get my wood to the splitter.
Title: Re: 3 point wood splitters
Post by: Bay Beagle on February 04, 2018, 03:38:12 PM
I had a KELLEY 24 / 3 point splitter (runs off tractor hydraulics) - welded a platform for the wood to fall on, after the split, so I can split it again if needed (rather than picking it back up off the ground.  Ran that thing for 15 plus years - the advantage - I could lower it to the ground for those big boys.  Sold it a couple weeks ago ...... now I'm ordering a "SPLIT-FIRE" splitter, with "skid steer universal quick attach", to use on my front loader.  I like being able to hook up to a trailer, like mentioned above - and the Split-Fire splits on forward and return strokes, and I can lay it directly into a pile of wood, or laps.  Split-Fire has models for 3-point too.
Title: Re: 3 point wood splitters
Post by: Hilltop366 on February 04, 2018, 03:56:09 PM
I got one, slow but way better than an axe.

I think I payed $400 second hand.
Title: Re: 3 point wood splitters
Post by: 47sawdust on February 04, 2018, 04:20:55 PM
Lot's of good replies here.Everyone's needs are a little different.I'm on splitter #3 and hopefully the last one I buy.

I just got back from a snowshoe through the bush looking at what I'll be cutting tomorrow.Next years wood is drying,cutting for 2018 now.I'm poor but rich in the ways that matter most.

Good luck with the splitter.
Title: Re: 3 point wood splitters
Post by: Woodcutter_Mo on February 04, 2018, 05:27:10 PM
 Thanks for the great replys so far. The tractor is a Kioti 45hp diesel. I'm not sure on the flow rate on the rear aux hydraulics, I will have to get the manual out and take a look. The tractor has a FEL and currently do use it to bring firewood out of the woods where I can't get the truck. This is the only running tractor we have right now.
 The splitter would be mainly be for personal use for wood that doesn't want to split easily with the maul. I throw that stuff in a separate pile  ;D



 
Title: Re: 3 point wood splitters
Post by: Kwill on February 04, 2018, 08:51:02 PM
Mine on my 8n works great. Its not slow. Any faster and I couldn't keep up.
Title: Re: 3 point wood splitters
Post by: Woodcutter_Mo on February 05, 2018, 09:15:48 AM
Mine on my 8n works great. Its not slow. Any faster and I couldn't keep up.

 I assume yours being on an 8n that it is PTO driven?
Title: Re: 3 point wood splitters
Post by: Kwill on February 05, 2018, 01:30:56 PM
Mine on my 8n works great. Its not slow. Any faster and I couldn't keep up.

 I assume yours being on an 8n that it is PTO driven?
no sir. Front mount pump
Title: Re: 3 point wood splitters
Post by: btd on February 08, 2018, 08:37:25 AM
I use a horizontal three point splitter on a 45 hp kioti, I bump the throttle up a bit over idle and it is reasonably fast and has alot of power. For real big wood I simply lower the splitter to the ground split into manageable pieces then raise it back up where it is easier on the back and continue. Works good for me.
Title: Re: 3 point wood splitters
Post by: Woodcutter_Mo on February 08, 2018, 09:12:36 AM
Good info, I generally keep the idle at 1100-1200+ anytime its parked and the hydraulics are being used such as the loader being raised or 3 point raised with weight on it so that should work good for me. What model is your Kioti? Mine is a '04 DK45 with the 12 speed shuttle transmission, has been a good tractor overall.
Title: Re: 3 point wood splitters
Post by: hedgerow on February 08, 2018, 02:54:42 PM
 I ran a home built splitter on a 3010 JD for years just used the tractors hyds. It had a 5 inch cylinder and would keep two people busy. I googled your Kioti and it shows it has a 16.8 GPM pump which shouldn't be to bad for speed and it is nice to drop it to the ground for the big ones.
Title: Re: 3 point wood splitters
Post by: btd on February 08, 2018, 07:05:58 PM
2012 DS4510, 13 gpm pump. Green wood doesn't stand a chance, twisted seasoned beech gives it a workout but the tractor has the power (run off remotes, not pto) but the cylinder could probably stand to be rebuilt.
Title: Re: 3 point wood splitters
Post by: overclocking on February 09, 2018, 09:29:25 AM
To clear up a lot of mixed information I just wanted to add my experience.

3pt splitters are not slow. Its possible if it connected to the remotes then it would be, but most of the ones I see are pto driven. These are much faster then any regular splitter I have ever used and much more capable of splitting big wood.

I use a timberwolf tw3 with log lift and 4 way wedge and using a conveyor 2 cord an hour is average with two people.
Some of these splitters will split 3 ft or larger hardwood log 4 ways without blowing your back out.

I have a video I made somewhere of the tw3 lifting and 4 way splitting 40 inch round cherry logs with minimal effort.

Since using the 3pt unit I have never even thought of firing up the old pull behind.
Title: Re: 3 point wood splitters
Post by: Kwill on February 09, 2018, 03:05:36 PM
I like mine. Its nice not having another gas engine setting around several months out of the year not being ran.
Title: Re: 3 point wood splitters
Post by: Woodcutter_Mo on February 09, 2018, 03:46:04 PM
 I definitely like the idea of not having another engine sitting around. Most of the 3 point splitters I've been seeing do run off the remotes. As long as it's not super slow, would be fine with me. I would prefer one that worked both vertical and horizontal but all of the splitters I see that can work vertically have the wedge on the cylinder for obvious reasons. I wonder if a person could make the wedge and plate removable as to be able to swap them around?
Title: Re: 3 point wood splitters
Post by: Gearbox on February 09, 2018, 06:59:04 PM
What is slow 20 seconds ? That is 3 blocks a min. 180 blocks an hour . Try splitting 180 blocks an hour for 4 hours by hand with a mall . What is slow ?
Title: Re: 3 point wood splitters
Post by: Woodcutter_Mo on February 09, 2018, 08:05:00 PM
 The faster it will split, the better but speed isn't my ultimate goal, being able to split more difficult pieces without messing with hammering wedges as much is what I would like. Sounds like these setups will probably work fine for my uses.
Title: Re: 3 point wood splitters
Post by: gspren on February 09, 2018, 08:46:01 PM
  A few years ago at a farm auction I bought an older homemade 3 pt splitter that uses the tractors hydraulics. It is a well made unit with a 4" X 24" cylinder and came with hoses that will fit either my JD620 or my JD2355, problem is the splitter has an open center valve that's non-convertible so I can only use it as-is on the 1956 JD620 which puts out about 900 lb of pressure so only good on easy stuff. The three options I see are get a different valve for the splitter, get a pto pump so I could use any tractor including the little Kubota or just keep borrowing the neighbors Iron & Oak splitter.
Title: Re: 3 point wood splitters
Post by: btd on February 09, 2018, 09:03:02 PM
Easy straight grain wood splits with just a few inches of travel of the cylinder back and forth, hard to split stuff obviously chews up more time, but, I think an efficient setup is as important (or more so) as cycle time. Imo
Find the happy place between speed and fuel consumption and all is well if you're not trying to make a living at it.
Title: Re: 3 point wood splitters
Post by: 62oliver on February 10, 2018, 08:07:24 AM
I run my homemade splitter off the hydraulics on my JD310C, or the aux hydraulics on the skid steer.
  I just split wood for my own use and the few hours per year that amounts to doesn't bother me. It is less hassle than maintaining another engine that you don't really use that much.
  I doubt that it is more than 12-15  hours per year average.
And especially on the 310 it is fast.
Title: Re: 3 point wood splitters
Post by: york on February 10, 2018, 09:42:34 AM
My first splitter was three point mounted,but had its own source of hyd.
8hp-16 gpm pump,nice thing about it,it was self propelled,could move it around with ease...
Title: Re: 3 point wood splitters
Post by: chevytaHOE5674 on February 10, 2018, 10:04:30 AM
Much cheaper to run and maintain a small B&S type engine than it is to accumulate hours on a tractor.
Title: Re: 3 point wood splitters
Post by: Ivan49 on February 11, 2018, 07:43:01 AM
In 1972 I built one and at the time I used it on a JD 50. I just split about 5 to 10 cords a  year and even if it was slow it was easier than swing a maul. I later used it on my White which ran a little faster but speed was not my goal my goal was to split wood easiernd not have to work on an engine every year just to split wood. I still use this splitter a few times but most of the time now I use my wood processor as I don't have to lift as much. I would not want to guess how many cords I have ran thru the 3 point splitter because many years I used it to help my neighbors out. Now he has one that I built for him and he stills uses it
Title: Re: 3 point wood splitters
Post by: gspren on February 11, 2018, 08:39:57 AM
In 1972 I built one and at the time I used it on a JD 50.

Ivan, did you use the tractor hydraulics or a pto pump?
Title: Re: 3 point wood splitters
Post by: Woodcutter_Mo on February 11, 2018, 09:09:41 AM
Much cheaper to run and maintain a small B&S type engine than it is to accumulate hours on a tractor.

 That's a good point, although since I would be using it mostly for my own firewood I don't think it would rack up too many hours on the tractor. Now if I started selling alot of  firewood, I think it would be a good idea for the splitter to have its own engine. In fact I have several engines that I could use if I were to build my own splitter or if I decided to make the 3 point splitter self contained in the future.
Title: Re: 3 point wood splitters
Post by: chevytaHOE5674 on February 11, 2018, 10:02:22 AM
To all you guys talking about having to work on a small b&s type engine yearly what you having to do to them?

My Tecumseh on my splitter is 25 ish years old gets used 2 weeks a year and I've never worked on it other than changing the 1 quart of oil it holds and maybe a spark plug. Same with my rototiller it's got a 40yo Briggs and gets used 1 day a year and I've never had to work on it....

Way less maintenance than a tractor that has fuel/oil/hydraulic/coolant filters to change and those fluids to maintain
Title: Re: 3 point wood splitters
Post by: armechanic on February 11, 2018, 11:34:31 AM
I change the engine to my tiller in the spring and back to the splitter in the fall. I started this in 1991 when I returned from Desert Storm, had to buy new engine last year. I guess I wore it out changing it.
Title: Re: 3 point wood splitters
Post by: Hilltop366 on February 11, 2018, 11:38:43 AM
Most problems with seldom used engines are rotten gas, Rusted gas tanks and mouse nest.
Title: Re: 3 point wood splitters
Post by: chevytaHOE5674 on February 11, 2018, 01:38:09 PM
Treat your gas with something like stabil or run it empty when your done.... lots cheaper to do one of those two things than run a tractor....
Title: Re: 3 point wood splitters
Post by: Kwill on February 11, 2018, 02:03:15 PM
 I started building mine as a stand alone splitter. You can tell from the pic. But I bought a loader for the 8n and need a front pump to run it. So I decided rather than having to buy  2 pumps one for splitter and one for tractor I would just buy one and add a set of remotes on the 8n to run the splitter. Then I gain a set of remotes on the tractor to run the splitter or whatever I need to and I don't have another engine to maintain. Plus all the wood i cut is here on the farm  and I won't be taking the splitter anywhere. Worked lout great in my situation

 (http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/42883/IMG_1514681395227.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1514684113)
Title: Re: 3 point wood splitters
Post by: 47sawdust on February 11, 2018, 02:18:22 PM
Kwill,
Great idea,seems I would like to see the hyd.plumbing set-up.I take it the loader and the splitter each have their own reservoirs?

By the way I was looking through your gallery and and came across  the bicycle snowplow.It looked like you(?) were plowing snow out in front of a tavern.Genius at work,beware!My wife and I loved it.
Great collection of antique and elderly items.

Had a fella here with a sign out front his place..."We buy junk and sell antiques"
Title: Re: 3 point wood splitters
Post by: Kwill on February 11, 2018, 02:24:48 PM
Kwill,
Great idea,seems I would like to see the hyd.plumbing set-up.I take it the loader and the splitter each have their own reservoirs?
they run off the tractor sump
Title: Re: 3 point wood splitters
Post by: Ivan49 on February 11, 2018, 03:27:29 PM
In 1972 I built one and at the time I used it on a JD 50.

Ivan, did you use the tractor hydraulics or a pto pump?
Tractor hydraulics and I used the control valve that is in the power troll. Just plug the lines in and use the handle beside the seat to work the cyl
Title: Re: 3 point wood splitters
Post by: Randy88 on February 15, 2018, 09:35:09 PM
Used a 3 pt splitter for years ran off hydraulics, can't recall it being slow at all, just hard on the back and lifting the blocks, then went to a unit mounted on the front of a skid loader, got tired of that as well, then cut the mounts off and flipped the splitter over and ran it on the skid steer that way, died and went to heaven, been that way for almost 14 years now, couldn't be happier, haven't lifted a block in 14 years, hardly ever handle anything by hand anymore except for tossing the blocks into the furnace.   

I'd recommend a valve on the splitter, use a tie strap the hold the lever on the tractor engaged and should work fine.     
Title: Re: 3 point wood splitters
Post by: Woodcutter_Mo on February 15, 2018, 09:58:51 PM
 On this tractor, the aux lever detents for constant flow. The lever has 2 positions I believe it just changes the direction of flow between the 2 couplers. So this "should" work well with a separate control lever if I understand correctly. I've only used the aux hydraulics to raise and lower a haybine and it just has a single line.
Title: Re: 3 point wood splitters
Post by: btd on February 16, 2018, 06:13:18 AM
Woodcutter_mo you are right, I put the "in" line in the top coupler and the "out" line in the bottom coupler on my kioti then just push the lever on the tractor forward and you should be good to go with a separate valve on your splitter.
Title: Re: 3 point wood splitters
Post by: Bay Beagle on February 16, 2018, 08:01:45 AM
BIG THANKS to Ya'll ....... I had made plans to order a "split-fire" splitter, to mount on my front loader - so it would be easy to place on the piles.  After reading a thread warning about exhaust fumes coming off the back of the tractor for three point splitters, I gave my front mount second thoughts.  (I have exhaust plumbed to the front of the tractor)   ..... so the Split - Fire md#3203 three point has been ordered - thanks again!!! 
Title: Re: 3 point wood splitters
Post by: TKehl on February 16, 2018, 12:23:36 PM
I've only used the aux hydraulics to raise and lower a haybine and it just has a single line.

A single line or a single pair?  You need a pair or you won't be able to get the cylinder to return. 

Would work fine on a haybine or similar.  Pressure up and gravity down. 

I would think you have a pair of connections.  Haven't seen a single connection on anything newer than an Allis D-14, but with newer imports... ??? 
Title: Re: 3 point wood splitters
Post by: Woodcutter_Mo on February 16, 2018, 01:39:18 PM
I've only used the aux hydraulics to raise and lower a haybine and it just has a single line.

A single line or a single pair?  You need a pair or you won't be able to get the cylinder to return. 

Would work fine on a haybine or similar.  Pressure up and gravity down. 

I would think you have a pair of connections.  Haven't seen a single connection on anything newer than an Allis D-14, but with newer imports... ???

 Sorry, I meant the haybine just used a single line so I haven't used both couplers at the same time. The tractor has 2 couplers