The Forestry Forum

General Forestry => Tree, Plant and Wood I.D. => Topic started by: bobznew on May 08, 2018, 09:38:03 AM

Title: ID? Several of these in woods behind my house. Check out the leaf projections...
Post by: bobznew on May 08, 2018, 09:38:03 AM
In north-central Georgia.  1000' elevation.  Woods behind my house.  Several of these trees. Last leaf image shows some strange growth-like projections from the tops of the leaves.  

Any ideas on species?  And what is that growth? 


(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/49695/IMG_6858.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1525786562)
 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/49695/IMG_6857.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1525786562)
 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/49695/IMG_6855.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1525786561)
 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/49695/IMG_6854.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1525786561)
 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/49695/IMG_6853.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1525786560)
 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/49695/IMG_6852.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1525786560)
 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/49695/IMG_6856.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1525786562)
 
Title: Re: ID? Several of these in woods behind my house. Check out the leaf projections...
Post by: LeeB on May 08, 2018, 09:55:56 AM
Looks like elm to me.
Title: Re: ID? Several of these in woods behind my house. Check out the leaf projections...
Post by: bobznew on May 08, 2018, 10:22:41 AM
Looks like elm to me.
Just plain American Elm?
Title: Re: ID? Several of these in woods behind my house. Check out the leaf projections...
Post by: WDH on May 08, 2018, 10:37:13 AM
Is the top of the leaf rough like sandpaper or smooth?  If rough, it is winged elm.  American elm is smooth.
Title: Re: ID? Several of these in woods behind my house. Check out the leaf projections...
Post by: caveman on May 09, 2018, 10:15:02 PM
If I had to choose based on the pictures, I would lean towards winged elm for a few reasons, the leaf texture as WDH mentioned, the really short petioles, and the width of the leaves compared to their leaves' length.  Most of the time, the American elms are a bit wider across the middle than winged elm leaves of the same length.  
Title: Re: ID? Several of these in woods behind my house. Check out the leaf projections...
Post by: Don P on May 09, 2018, 10:20:24 PM
Leaf galls.
our elm leaves tend to look more woppyjawed than those at the base.
Title: Re: ID? Several of these in woods behind my house. Check out the leaf projections...
Post by: WDH on May 10, 2018, 06:53:15 AM
Woppyjawed.  That is a new botanical term that I have not used :D.

It is almost certainly winged elm.
Title: Re: ID? Several of these in woods behind my house. Check out the leaf projections...
Post by: Don P on May 10, 2018, 06:59:38 AM
Yeah, I may have misspelled that  ;D
Have you heard that tree called a wahoo?
Title: Re: ID? Several of these in woods behind my house. Check out the leaf projections...
Post by: WDH on May 10, 2018, 07:06:18 AM
Yes.  Euonymus atropurpureus.  I have never seen it, though.
Title: Re: ID? Several of these in woods behind my house. Check out the leaf projections...
Post by: bluthum on May 10, 2018, 04:26:55 PM
The way I learned it slippery elm [U. rubra] is always rough on the upper leaf surface [also uneven at the leaf base] and U. americana can be either hairy or  not hairy. U. americana leaves are  always even at the base.

Winged elm U. alata] and water elm [not even an Ulmus]  leaves leaves are narrow, more lanceolate than the bigger elms. 

If that tree were in my stomping grounds I'd call it a winged elm    although in early growth stage the leaf width can be a fooler. It seems like faster growing winged elms have less obvious corky growth on the small limbs but that's a rare problem here in the Ozarks.

They can be a mean little weed tree and some 1" in diameter can have 30 annular rings. I poked one of the stout little twigs on one I had girdled well into my eye once but you gotta love antibiotics sometimes. 

The more common local name here is uh, something like "urine elm" though not exactly.
Title: Re: ID? Several of these in woods behind my house. Check out the leaf projections...
Post by: WDH on May 10, 2018, 08:58:21 PM
There is also cedar elm that grows in parts of Arkansas, Louisiana, and East Texas.  Ulmus crassifolia. Very closely related to winged elm. 
Title: Re: ID? Several of these in woods behind my house. Check out the leaf projections...
Post by: bluthum on May 11, 2018, 10:12:41 AM
In Arkansas that one is limited to [mostly] the south east part of the state and doesn't grow in the mountainous parts.  
Title: Re: ID? Several of these in woods behind my house. Check out the leaf projections...
Post by: TKehl on May 11, 2018, 01:25:40 PM
I've read that the American elm was the only Elm with alternating light/dark layers in the bark.  I can confirm that Slippery Elm does not have this pattern in the bark (or not as pronounced), but not sure about Winged etc. Elm.

Any input from the resident gurus on this?
Title: Re: ID? Several of these in woods behind my house. Check out the leaf projections...
Post by: WDH on May 11, 2018, 08:26:19 PM
Yes, that is correct.  Called striations in the rhytidome .  I get in trouble for using big words, but this time it is your fault, TKehl.  You set me up for it :). 
Title: Re: ID? Several of these in woods behind my house. Check out the leaf projections...
Post by: Don P on May 11, 2018, 09:21:04 PM
striations in the rhytidome
I'm still coming to grips with wahoo and hearts a bustin being the same or kissing cousins and here we are whipping somebody in a stadium. Do tell, what is the rhytidome?
Title: Re: ID? Several of these in woods behind my house. Check out the leaf projections...
Post by: Magicman on May 11, 2018, 10:56:37 PM
He could have just said that it was bark.....but he didn't.  :D
Title: Re: ID? Several of these in woods behind my house. Check out the leaf projections...
Post by: WDH on May 12, 2018, 06:59:11 AM
I told you that it was TKehl's fault.  He started the whole mess.
Title: Re: ID? Several of these in woods behind my house. Check out the leaf projections...
Post by: petefrom bearswamp on May 12, 2018, 08:38:03 AM
Not familiar with winged Elm, only Red (slippery) and american.
Havent heard of Wahoo
Red elm split pretty easily, not so American.
elm that smelled like a certain bodily liquid was american in my area growing up but is very scarce now.
The is a huge one about 7 miles from me on a client's property about 60" in diameter but I havent checked on it in about 2 yrs to see if is still among the living.
Title: Re: ID? Several of these in woods behind my house. Check out the leaf projections...
Post by: bluthum on May 12, 2018, 04:17:32 PM
Yeah but funnin' aside this thread gives one perfect example of why big words work. The name wahoo is commonly used for 2 totally different woody plants that grow sometimes near each other. They each also have many other common names. Total confusion.

But Ulmus alata is the same plant every time. Ditto Euonymus atropurpureus, even if it is hard to spell.
Title: Re: ID? Several of these in woods behind my house. Check out the leaf projections...
Post by: WDH on May 13, 2018, 07:51:38 PM
You are spot on, Sir.
Title: Re: ID? Several of these in woods behind my house. Check out the leaf projections...
Post by: Don P on May 13, 2018, 09:05:10 PM
No doubt about it. I try to pound a little more latin into my pea each year. Pretty sure I'll just end up with a split pea though :D. The reason I was asking about wahoo is we had a mason some years ago asking if I knew of a tree called a wahoo, the closest I could come up with from the description was winged elm, well obviously that ain't it, what is the other wahoo?
Title: Re: ID? Several of these in woods behind my house. Check out the leaf projections...
Post by: caveman on May 14, 2018, 03:22:39 PM
Most winged elms have "alata" wings or corky projections on the stems and twigs.  The only wahoo that I'm familiar with is a pelagic denizen of the deep.
Title: Re: ID? Several of these in woods behind my house. Check out the leaf projections...
Post by: WDH on May 14, 2018, 08:11:25 PM
Pelagic denizen.

I ain't the only sesquipedalian :D. 
Title: Re: ID? Several of these in woods behind my house. Check out the leaf projections...
Post by: LeeB on May 15, 2018, 08:20:36 AM
Are you required to register with the local law enforcement because of that?  :D
Title: Re: ID? Several of these in woods behind my house. Check out the leaf projections...
Post by: WDH on May 15, 2018, 08:15:28 PM
 :D :D :D.
Title: Re: ID? Several of these in woods behind my house. Check out the leaf projections...
Post by: TKehl on May 16, 2018, 10:16:09 AM
WDH, thanks for the confirmation and vocabulary lesson!  

Would have replied sooner, but was laughing too hard at this, and got distracted relaying it to my wife.  ;D
Title: Re: ID? Several of these in woods behind my house. Check out the leaf projections...
Post by: caveman on May 16, 2018, 10:00:10 PM
Danny, I told my mother what you implied that I was and she said that as long as you did not call me a loquacious sesquipedalian that it was okay.  
Title: Re: ID? Several of these in woods behind my house. Check out the leaf projections...
Post by: WDH on May 17, 2018, 07:13:22 AM
No, you are not overtly loquacious.