The Forestry Forum

General Forestry => Drying and Processing => Topic started by: schwanee on August 04, 2018, 07:41:26 PM

Title: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: schwanee on August 04, 2018, 07:41:26 PM
Curious if any of yíall have purchased or have any experience with vacutherm a new iDry vacuum kiln?

I am considering the purchase of one and would love to hear what anyone thinks about it.

From what I can tell there would be many positives for me:
-compared to other vacuum kilns the price is great! (Starting at $40k)
-fast drying times (they state 1Ē per week from green)
-I donít need a high volume kiln, I just want to be able to dry in a matter of weeks and not years. (Vacutherm States 1-2000 BF per load)

Just as background info, I mill mostly  hardwood live edge slabs for retail and custom projects of my own.

Thank you ladies and gents for any information.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Southside on August 04, 2018, 10:26:30 PM
Have not heard of them, but from the research I did last year I would be leery of quality and longevity at that price point. The controllers and components of a vac kiln are not cheap.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: schwanee on August 04, 2018, 10:56:05 PM
Thanks south side. Itís a new model they have so there is not much out there that I can find. It is a discontinuous vacuum kiln.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: GeneWengert-WoodDoc on August 05, 2018, 07:42:39 AM
I have worked on drying oak with the Vacu-Therm kiln process and equipment for 30 years with Jim Parker and then with his son.  Jim and I both enjoyed flying airplanes.  I have found their advertisements to be technically accurate.  Their intermittent vacuum process does indeed work well and seems to be economically reasonable too.  I have one client using a new kiln from them and he likes it...I am not sure if it the same model you asked about.

Regarding the capital cost, assume 1500 bf average per load and 50 loads per year and 10 year amortization of the $40,000 cost.  That is 75,000 bf per year or around $40,000 / (75,000 x 10). = $4/75 = $0.05 per bf capital cost...reasonable.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: WDH on August 05, 2018, 09:50:53 PM
A member here just bought one last week.  Has not been delivered yet. 
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Glenn1 on August 07, 2018, 09:49:50 PM
I spoke with  Jim just last week.  The new IDry is a continuous unit and not a discontinuous kiln that they made in the past.  Their high end vacuum kiln works on 4" to 6" of mercury and this new unit works on 8" of mercury.  This means that some air is kept in the kiln so that you can sticker your boards and the air will dry the stack.  Their high end unit does not leave air in the system so it needs metal plates that radiate heat.  With this new system and using 8" of mercury, water will boil at 155 degrees.  They are just now starting to offer a 2" membrane that fits on top of the stack.  The air that is pumped out of the unit now goes into the membrane so that the stack gets 1800 psi downward pressure.  

The stack can be up to 13' x 42" (48") x 55" high.  They will be at the International Woodworking Show in Atlanta later this month.  As far as I know, it is the largest industrial woodworking show in the world.  If you have never been there, you will be amazed!
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: schwanee on August 08, 2018, 12:07:08 AM
Thatís some great info that I havenít heard yet Glenn. Thanks!
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: YellowHammer on August 08, 2018, 01:10:55 AM
I know very little about vacuum kilns, but am fascinated by their use.  

Running quick numbers on this moderate vacuum kiln, itís equivalent to about 4 psi or about 32,000 feet altitude, approximate cruising altitude of a commercial aircraft.  

Power consumption is listed as 6kWh average.  With an average published 2018 electrical cost in Alabama of approximately .1259 $/kWh, that comes to 6000/1000*24*.1259= $18.13 per day or $543 per month or $6,516 per year in electricity costs.

It costs $1,500 for a 2 year service contract.  

My primary usage would be 2 inch and thicker, so at the website published 1 week per inch thickness I would need a minimum of 2 weeks, so would cost $543/2= $271 per load or 18 cents per bdft for a 1500 bdft load assuming my math and assumptions are correct. 

Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Crusarius on August 08, 2018, 08:45:24 AM
you should get one so we can hear how it works :) Ever since I put some slabs into a vacuum chamber here at work I been wanting to do more with vacuum. Sure seems like a great way to dry slabs quickly and without damage.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: boardmaker on August 08, 2018, 09:12:18 AM
I wonder if the 1 week per inch rule is with air dried wood or green?  
I think the price tag is reasonable.
Sure would like to hear feedback from some already in use.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: YellowHammer on August 08, 2018, 11:25:46 AM
Please tell me more about you putting the wood in the vacuum chamber. Was it heated?  What happened?  
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Crusarius on August 08, 2018, 12:01:25 PM
I did 2 separate events.

First event: some 3/8" to 1/2" thick spalted maple slabs about 18-20" long. Left at ambient temperature and set to about 30k feet. When the slabs were placed in the chamber they were pretty dry on the ends and very wet in the center. I left them in the chamber for about 2 hours, maybe 3. Been a while my memory is foggy. 

What I noticed when I pulled them out was the center was visibly dry and felt dry as well. The ends that were dry before putting them into the chamber were now moist to the touch. of course this is all subjective since I did not have a moisture meter and I never thought about weighing the samples first. 

Second event: I placed 5 spalted maple cookies into the chamber. Cookies were 2-3" thick. Left it at ambient temp just added vacuum. I think I went to an equivalent of 30,000 feet. The reason for this was to kill the bugs in the wood.

What I did notice is when I put them in they felt wet to the touch. when they came out they felt dry. The chamber surfaces were all covered in condensation when I removed the cookies. Surprised how much water came out of them with only 8 hours in the chamber.

I need to do some more experimenting but after filling the chamber with water the one time I am a little leary to do it again. Next time I will weigh the samples and check them with my moisture meter. When I was playing around I thought the vacuum just sucked the water out of the wood. I did not realize everyone still adds heat to evaporate the water. I think just straight vacuum would be safer way to quickly dry wood.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: GeneWengert-WoodDoc on August 08, 2018, 05:45:58 PM
YellowHammer.  I do believe the 6 kWh is for 2000bf.  The cost also would be slightly less for a two week run. So, we might have $130 per MBF for energy and $100 capital costs etc.  The price difference between green and KD for some species and grades of 8/4 is $500 per MBF and higher, so there is a good profit margin, but it is probably not there for pine 2x4s, although they would dry in 4 days perhaps and not 14, so that would drop the drying costs for them to around $100 per MBF.  

Two special considerations:  1) You can custom dry small quantities and probably get a premium price.  2) You can dry 12/4 oak in under 30 days.  Who can dry 12/4 oak conventionally in less than a year?  The cost of conventional drying of 12/4 oak is really high, if someone wants to take the risk...no less than $1000.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: YellowHammer on August 08, 2018, 11:35:34 PM
The thick wood is where I see this being very useful, drying wood that others canít, to set the market.  
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: japarker4 on August 09, 2018, 12:01:46 PM
Come see the iDRY (http://www.idrywood.com) running at the IWF Atlanta Tradeshow August 22nd - 25th (http://www.iwfatlanta.com).  I'll be there answering questions and drying wood.

We're kind of new to this forum, but I'll try to monitor it and answer any questions. 

Jim Parker
President
Vacutherm, Inc
1-802-496-4241 x2
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: KODAK on August 09, 2018, 12:52:49 PM
The cost of conventional drying of 12/4 oak is really high, if someone wants to take the risk...no less than $1000.
Being new to this forum, could you expand on what you mean by that? $1000 to pay to have that size dried or the potential value in drying that load??
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Tom the Sawyer on August 09, 2018, 07:32:50 PM
japarker4,

Welcome to the Forum, will be interesting to follow how your equipment performs.

You might want to get an SSL, or update the one you have.  Your link returns as an insecure site and is blocked in MS Edge.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: GeneWengert-WoodDoc on August 09, 2018, 11:14:06 PM
Air drying costs for 12/4 oak in a shed might be $0.60 per day per MBF...land, taxes, security, insurance, interest on inventory, etc.

Kiln drying is $20 per day...energy, operator salary, capital cost, maintenance, loading, profit.

Then there is stacking and moving.

12/4 is likely 365 days air drying and 50 days kiln drying.  Easily $1200.  Then add degrade, as likely 15% minimum quality loss.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: scsmith42 on August 21, 2018, 11:53:11 AM
The thick wood is where I see this being very useful, drying wood that others canít, to set the market.  
I'm at the same place as you, and spoke with Jim a couple of months back about his new iDry system.
One thing that he commented was that thick oak would not see the same amount of accelerated drying rate with the iDry as other species (presumably due to the tyloses).  It would still dry faster, just not as fast.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Just Right on August 21, 2018, 02:20:56 PM
YH,  just go ahead and buy two.  I will run one in GA and you run one in AL and we can see if there is a difference. . . . . . . :D :D :D
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Just Right on August 21, 2018, 02:27:01 PM
Hay Mr. Parker.  What is the lead time from order to delivery?

Thanks 

JR
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Stephen1 on August 21, 2018, 03:37:13 PM
I have an interest also. i will follow along and see where this post leads
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: YellowHammer on August 21, 2018, 09:34:25 PM
Just two?  I was going to get three.   :D
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Just Right on August 21, 2018, 09:45:16 PM
That is a better idea.  Send one to PAW and we will have a wide variety of climate examples.  I do like the looks of it and the time thing would save shed/floor space from not having to air dry.  If I can get away tomorrow from work I may try to go and take a look at it in ATL.  Just bad timing though.  My uncle wants my 07 Vette. . . . . .and I want his Cat 258E skid steer and Bobcat 325 mini ex. . . . .got to go swap those on Thurs.  Won't be back till Sat or Sun.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Crusarius on August 22, 2018, 07:59:40 AM
Just two?  I was going to get three.   :D
Perfect, I need one :)
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Busysawyer on August 22, 2018, 11:37:10 AM
Just right, I have been talking to mr.parker over the last couple weeks. He is very good about answering phone calls and returning messages. I was told there currently is an 8 week lead time. I spoke with him yesterday. 
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Just Right on August 22, 2018, 11:56:27 AM
Thank you.  Yes he is.  He messaged me late last nite.  I was going to try to get off work and go see him today to pick his brain,  but that ain't gonna happen.  My only reservation is about what I have been hearing and or reading is white oak doesn't dry in this type of kiln.  I just wanted to hear it from the horse's mouth.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Lawg Dawg on August 22, 2018, 12:46:10 PM
  My only reservation is about what I have been hearing and or reading is white oak doesn't dry in this type of kiln.  I just wanted to hear it from the horse's mouth.
Thats an intresting tid bit
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: scsmith42 on August 22, 2018, 06:18:46 PM
Thank you.  Yes he is.  He messaged me late last nite.  I was going to try to get off work and go see him today to pick his brain,  but that ain't gonna happen.  My only reservation is about what I have been hearing and or reading is white oak doesn't dry in this type of kiln.  I just wanted to hear it from the horse's mouth.
That's what Jim told me when we spoke live several weeks back.  WO will dry, but not as quickly as other species.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: WDH on August 22, 2018, 07:58:39 PM
White oak is always recalcitrant. 
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Southside on August 22, 2018, 08:59:53 PM
White oak is always recalcitrant.
Not to mention it just won't behave the way we wish it would when drying.   :D
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: YellowHammer on August 22, 2018, 10:06:36 PM
So with this hybrid vacuum cycle, do the boards get defects?  I thought vacuum kilns reduced or eliminated defects?  If so why is a weight system offered?  

I wish one of you guys would hurry up and get one so I can pester you with questions.   :D



Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Just Right on August 22, 2018, 11:15:58 PM
Keep your panties on YH.  There is an eight week lead time and only 10 slots left for the year.  Unless the ATL show was a huge hit.  Does the Idry have a weight system or is that another one of their kilns?  Vaccupress maybe?  I tried to figure out the differences in their systems last night.  The Vaccupress is probably out of my price range.  I couldn't find figures on its price.  I figure that a dropped off plug in ready Nyle container kiln is 33K ish or so.  This Idry is 40K.  That isn't that big of a difference,  especially after I 179 it on this years taxes.  Still a lot to learn I'm sure.  I heard an ole wise man say one time. . . . . ."Always taking steps to save steps" . . . . This unit seems to me, might just fit that bill!

Steve did he mention what kind of time frame it did take for WO to dry?  Green to finish?

WDH I believe you mentioned someone on here just bought one.  Has he took delivery yet?  Even if he has I'm sure it is a learning curve and will take some time to get a review out of him.

BusySawyer,  I wouldn't waste your money on one of these.  You don't ever keep walnut long enough to dry! 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)  There are worse problems than that.  But I did notice the price difference in the two different kilns you mentioned.  If You get really bored,  come on down in about 2 weeks.  We will be doing 55 acres of square bales.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: WDH on August 23, 2018, 07:16:30 AM
The Woodyard is buying the demo unit at the Atlanta show. 
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Just Right on August 23, 2018, 07:25:07 AM
Woodyard out of Concord?
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: WDH on August 23, 2018, 07:26:34 AM
Yes Sir.  Rick's Forum name on here is The Woodyard.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Just Right on August 23, 2018, 07:32:40 AM
Ya I thought so just didn't know.  That is 30 minutes from me.  Guess I know where I will be making a visit to very soon.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Busysawyer on August 23, 2018, 08:27:01 AM
I asked about the vaccupress and if I remember correctly those start of at 135k and go up from there.  I've been getting rid of green walnut slabs but I'm missing out on a ton of sales not having dry lumber and slabs as well. Everything I advertise is green but a lot of people call hoping I have something dry as well. I need a kiln.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Just Right on August 23, 2018, 09:26:11 AM
I agree Busy.  The ability to dry that quick will keep your turn around time low.  I've bout talked myself into it already.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Busysawyer on August 23, 2018, 10:27:08 AM
Also mr. Parker said they will have a bladder available for the idry in about a month. If I understand correctly  you just fill it with air to add down pressure on the stack.  Think he said it will be about 3k for the bladder.  I like the idea of being able to dry and turn over quickly. Being small and limited on space I think it will help by not having to build a large inventory and store it.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: YellowHammer on August 23, 2018, 10:56:15 AM
I had already heard about the bladder weight system, so thatís what I was referencing.  

Iím still wondering, if vacuum kilns eliminate drying defects, why is a weight system needed?  Just thinking out load.  
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Just Right on August 23, 2018, 12:16:27 PM
Gotcha.  The only reason I can think of for the bladder would be for that lil extra effect on flatter boards.  And when you get a board that is warped going in will be flat coming out.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Don P on August 23, 2018, 08:32:12 PM
I can see it reducing or eliminating drying gradient stress problems but wood is still shrinking and squirreling around. If you restrain it until it takes a set I think it would help in any kind of drying.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Glenn1 on August 23, 2018, 10:13:40 PM
The bladder will exhibit 8 lbs of downforce per square inch.  Personally, Iíd Prefer to not dry my wood without some substantial weight.  A thousand lb. slab thatís 4íx4í will only exert  .43 lbs per square inch.  They will probably offer bladders in multiple sizes such as 8í and 12í lengths  to accommodate the length of your stack.  The downside is that will be sold individually.

I spent Wednesday and Thursday and it seems be be very well attended.  Especially today.  I actually walked 10 miles between the two days
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Stephen1 on August 25, 2018, 12:43:57 PM
I am trying to understand these vacuum units. I use one up here, (Radial Kiln) but my red oak comes back with stress cracks. 
I like the idea of the ivac unit, complete and ready to go, and with a quick turnaround of product, weather it is mine or a customer. 
I like the idea of being able to schedule customers wood. An in date and an out date. Scheduling would be key..... I can custom cut a log for the customer and have it ready to go in 2 weeks....not 2-3 months
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: GeneWengert-WoodDoc on August 25, 2018, 07:40:48 PM
Some defects that are seen after drying are due to issues with the resource and some are due to sawing issues. The kiln will not cure them.  The wood also shrinks so shrinkage defects can occur, like around a knot.

I saw the kiln at IWF.  They are selling like popcorn.  I am impressed about the turn-key kiln.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: customsawyer on September 02, 2018, 07:52:15 AM
Took a look at the kiln myself and met Jim. Very nice kiln and super nice guy. Just have a problem with this budget thing.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Don P on September 02, 2018, 08:14:44 AM
I am trying to understand these vacuum units. I use one up here, (Radial Kiln) but my red oak comes back with stress cracks.
I like the idea of the ivac unit, complete and ready to go, and with a quick turnaround of product, weather it is mine or a customer.
I like the idea of being able to schedule customers wood. An in date and an out date. Scheduling would be key..... I can custom cut a log for the customer and have it ready to go in 2 weeks....not 2-3 months
Stephen, I think it's probably a radio frequency/ vacuum kiln you're using. I've not been around one but have run rf glue presses. There is a ground plate on one face and basically an antenna plate on the other face. Punch the button and it "broadcasts" fm radio through the moisture in the glueline or the wood. The oscillating wave gets the molecules bouncing around which creates heat. In a vacuum where warm breezes don't blow it's another way to get heat energy into the wood.
On another thread we were talking about lightning strikes. Oak would often peg the machine, I'd have to dial it back and cycle a little longer. Anecdotally it is the most frequently hit tree. We figured oak is the best conductor in wood.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Stephen1 on September 03, 2018, 08:31:43 AM
Thanks Don, I understand that. 
with the IDry, is it just using vacuum? Or does generate the heat with another heat source?
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: GeneWengert-WoodDoc on September 03, 2018, 06:22:18 PM
Be aware that the cost of a kiln for drying lumber (a piece of equipment) can be depreciated in the US (and Canada?) when filing taxes, even though it might look like a building.  This helps lower the cost of the kiln.  Many banks are interested in funding business investments, but you will likely need a business plan.  County extension offices can often help in developing a plan.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: GeneWengert-WoodDoc on September 03, 2018, 06:30:09 PM
Stephen1,  is the Radial kiln using steam or radio-frequency and vacuum?  Where is it made?  I am not familiar with the name.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Stephen1 on September 04, 2018, 09:14:40 AM
It is my understanding it is made in North America, it uses radio frequency and vacuum to dry the wood. I do know he has a large waiting list for his 2 kilns. When ever I have taken wood to him, I wait about 6 weeks to get it in the kiln and then i have it back in under 2 weeks. I am seeing a need for a fast turn around of Kiln Dried wood, mine or another sawyers. i would prefer not to get in the business of running a store.
In this day and age and my location to the big city Of Toronto, full of people that want their wood back yesterday, I do see the need for fast Kiln service and a sharpening service. 
Sawmills are popping up all around me and I think that servicing the Sawyer, Kiln and Sharpening I could have a nice business.  
so because of the way I have been thinking, I am paying attention to the Kiln side of the lumber, I have been doing pretty good on the sawing part, now onto something new.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Busysawyer on September 11, 2018, 03:53:10 PM
After much deliberation I finally pulled the trigger on the idry. Very excited about what this is going to do for our business. 
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: nativewolf on September 11, 2018, 06:14:41 PM
After much deliberation I finally pulled the trigger on the idry. Very excited about what this is going to do for our business.
Sounds like a long lead time.  Obviously pictures wanted!  Our own build is so slow this would be faster.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Busysawyer on September 11, 2018, 09:01:36 PM
Nativewolf, there will definitely be some pics. Not excited about the lead time but what do you do. Vaccutherm is saying about ten weeks. It took about that for woodmizer to get me my mill and Baker just told me they are 6months out for a mill so I guess ten weeks isn't that long.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: nativewolf on September 12, 2018, 10:31:36 AM
Looking forward to the pics.  I guess a 10 week wait is also a good sign, they are selling like crazy.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Just Right on September 20, 2018, 11:44:04 AM
Good for you Busy.  I am leaning that way hard myself!  Can't wait to pick your brain.  I am actually going to the guy who bought the floor model from the IWF here in Atlanta a few weeks ago.  Going to see what he thinks about it.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: nativewolf on September 25, 2018, 10:12:29 AM
Good for you Busy.  I am leaning that way hard myself!  Can't wait to pick your brain.  I am actually going to the guy who bought the floor model from the IWF here in Atlanta a few weeks ago.  Going to see what he thinks about it.
Detailed report requested.  Wood quality, drying time, species he's tried, loading & unloading issues, energy use, heck what type of coffee he drinks :).
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: nativewolf on October 12, 2018, 11:21:57 AM
Just wondering if there were any shipment updates?
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Just Right on October 16, 2018, 12:06:28 PM
I did have a chance to talk to the guy running an Idry.  They love it.  He did notice on some mega wide poplar that there was some cupping.  But nothing but good things to say.  I asked Jim parker about shipping and he said pan on 8 to 10 weeks.  Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: E-Tex on October 17, 2018, 09:03:54 AM
I did have a chance to talk to the guy running an Idry.  They love it.  He did notice on some mega wide poplar that there was some cupping.  But nothing but good things to say.  I asked Jim parker about shipping and he said pan on 8 to 10 weeks.  Hope this helps.
Did this guy speak to drying times needed for 4/4 or 8/4 or other for certain species?  I'm curious if the i-Dry claims of "1-week per inch of thickness" is fairly accurate.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Just Right on October 17, 2018, 10:37:18 AM
Yes he did say that it was pretty much spot on as advertised.  Said he dried green ERC in a few days.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Busysawyer on October 18, 2018, 12:13:45 PM
Mr. Parker is saying we are still on schedule for November 15. I have the concrete poured,  boiler up and running.  Just need to so a little electrical work and I'll be ready for delivery.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: scsmith42 on October 19, 2018, 01:17:55 PM
I did have a chance to talk to the guy running an Idry.  They love it.  He did notice on some mega wide poplar that there was some cupping.  But nothing but good things to say.  I asked Jim parker about shipping and he said pan on 8 to 10 weeks.  Hope this helps.
Did this guy speak to drying times needed for 4/4 or 8/4 or other for certain species?  I'm curious if the i-Dry claims of "1-week per inch of thickness" is fairly accurate.
When I spoke with Jim he mentioned that the 1 week per inch rule did not apply to white oak, but with other species was pretty accurate.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: WDH on October 19, 2018, 07:55:57 PM
White oak has its own rules :). 
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: scsmith42 on October 23, 2018, 08:52:45 AM
Iím planning to stop by Vacutherm mid next month to check out an IDry and look over their plant.  Ought to be interesting.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Just Right on October 23, 2018, 11:08:09 AM
It does sound like a good plan to go visit them.  I did end up talking to the engineer the other day and he said for white oak,  you would be better off to air dry it for a while then dry it.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Busysawyer on October 24, 2018, 08:45:16 PM
Well I recieved the completion date email a couple days ago. When I ordered I was told about 10-12 weeks for completion. That would put it around the fourth of December. They will have the kiln ready on November 1st. A little over 7 weeks from the order date. Jim and the other guys at vaccutherm have been great to deal with. Problem is that of course I'm not going to be ready for it. I scheduled the spray foam contractors for November 9th. I'm getting 3in of closed cell on the barn walls and 6in of open cell on the roof deck. I might have to put the kiln in the middle of the barn and cover it with plastic and have the guys work around it. A few weeks ago they were saying kiln completion on November 15 possibly earlier. Well earlier it is. Now the pressure is on. So much to do, so little time.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Just Right on October 25, 2018, 07:43:51 AM
Well Busy,  It could of went the other way.  I feel that I will be in the same boat.  I just about have all the materials ready for the building that I will be putting mine in.  Will you go get yours or let them deliver it?  He figured my shipping would be 3500.00 . . . . . .so I am thinking road trip and save that.  Plus I have never had the chance to go up to the north east.  I know you are excited about the new addition though,  that is gonna be fun.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: E-Tex on October 25, 2018, 10:21:41 AM
Well Busy,  It could of went the other way.  I feel that I will be in the same boat.  I just about have all the materials ready for the building that I will be putting mine in.  Will you go get yours or let them deliver it?  He figured my shipping would be 3500.00 . . . . . .so I am thinking road trip and save that.  Plus I have never had the chance to go up to the north east.  I know you are excited about the new addition though,  that is gonna be fun.
Just Right..... you got in the game too with an i-Dry?  very nice, congratulations!
I'm going to have to quit reading this forum, the peer pressure is too much for me (and too expensive)!
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Busysawyer on October 25, 2018, 08:22:20 PM
Just right, they quoted me 3k for shipping. I thought about picking it up but will probably just pay the shipping so I don't have to worry about it.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Just Right on October 26, 2018, 07:54:03 AM
ETEX  yes I have made the decision to get an IDry.  I will be retiring end of Jan and want to coordinate pick up after that.  Figure a lil happy retiring gift to my self so to speak.  I  am just hung up at a kiln.  I don't mind paying someone to do it for me,  but it is at their leisure or availability.  And an hour away one way.  Like Busy mentioned above,  I can see selling more cause I can tell customers that I can dry 12/4 in a month or less and not 3 years.

Busy  After a 30 year career as an Air Traffic Controller in a dark room for most of it . . . .I am ready for the slow pace of a good long road trip.  If not I def would pay for the shipping.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Busysawyer on October 28, 2018, 05:50:40 PM
Just right, are you getting it with electric heat or boiler heat? 
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Just Right on October 29, 2018, 09:20:19 AM
Well it is just my opinion,  but I see the extra expense of the boiler option as I am paying for me to have to do more work.  So I opted for the electric.  just easier for me to pay the bill and if I want to go hunting fishing or anything I don't have to worry daily about the kiln being heated.  I am however leaning toward the bladder that goes on the inside for the added pressure for keeping the wood flat.  What is your opinion of that?
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Busysawyer on October 29, 2018, 10:25:10 AM
I think I will be ordering the bladder at some point. I'm done spending money for awhile though. Getting the barn finished up is killing me financially.  Concrete, insulation, electrical and plumbing. Plus the cost of the kiln, wood boiler and getting everything hooked up. It all adds up to a ton of money for someone like me. I wanted to heat my house and barn with a wood boiler so I figured I might as well get a large boiler and heat the kiln as well. I'm pretty sure they told me the kiln will need about 40k btu to heat it.  So far I'm able to heat my house and domestic hot water for about 7 days on a single load. In the warmer months I think I should be able to heat the kiln for a week at a time with a single load without a problem.  The fact that the kiln has it's own 50amp breaker tells me it's going to suck electric and at this point I only have 100 amps to the barn. Very excited to get this barn wrapped up and the kiln going.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: customsawyer on October 30, 2018, 06:38:49 PM
I'm excited for y'all. Looking forward to having someone close with one (Just Right) so I can use them at my leisure.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Stephen1 on October 30, 2018, 09:45:41 PM
I am on the verge of ordering a unit also. I would hope to have it ordered next week.
They are putting up the price Jan. 1/2019 to $49,000 US
I am picking up my new mill and a sharpener setter from WM tomorrow. 
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: E-Tex on October 31, 2018, 01:19:56 PM
what is the price of the bladder option?
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: japarker4 on October 31, 2018, 01:39:51 PM
what is the price of the bladder option?
Currently we're selling it for $3000, but I have to say the slabs and lumber we've been seeing out of kilns are really flat without it. 

(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/50197/APBoule.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1541007473)
 
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: japarker4 on October 31, 2018, 01:50:44 PM
Thanks south side. Itís a new model they have so there is not much out there that I can find. It is a discontinuous vacuum kiln.
The iDRY is a continuous vacuum kiln that operates at a pressure similar to the top of Mt Everest, so there is still enough air to push around with the fan to heat.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: japarker4 on October 31, 2018, 02:11:27 PM
I wonder if the 1 week per inch rule is with air dried wood or green?  
I think the price tag is reasonable.
Sure would like to hear feedback from some already in use.
1 week per inch is our estimate for green.  We're drying air dried faster depending on the actual initial moisture content, species and thickness. 
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: japarker4 on October 31, 2018, 02:12:44 PM
japarker4,

Welcome to the Forum, will be interesting to follow how your equipment performs.

You might want to get an SSL, or update the one you have.  Your link returns as an insecure site and is blocked in MS Edge.
Thanks for the feedback.  - Jim
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Glenn1 on October 31, 2018, 07:23:02 PM
japarker4,

Welcome to the Forum, will be interesting to follow how your equipment performs.

You might want to get an SSL, or update the one you have.  Your link returns as an insecure site and is blocked in MS Edge.
Thanks for the feedback.  - Jim
Hi Jim,
I understand from Mark that my unit is scheduled to ship on approximately Nov. 9th.  One day before my birthday, so this will be a really big present to myself.  
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Just Right on November 01, 2018, 01:29:13 PM
Custom Sawyer-   I am glad you feel that way.  I may rent you to unload it for me when I get back with it.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: jfric on November 01, 2018, 11:05:30 PM
Looks very likely I'll be ordering mine in the next couple weeks. Just finalizing a few minor details... like where to put it.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: samandothers on November 02, 2018, 12:40:34 PM
Welcome jfric! Where are ya located?
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: GAB on November 02, 2018, 07:24:24 PM
japarker4,

Welcome to the Forum, will be interesting to follow how your equipment performs.

You might want to get an SSL, or update the one you have.  Your link returns as an insecure site and is blocked in MS Edge.
Thanks for the feedback.  - Jim
Hi Jim,
I understand from Mark that my unit is scheduled to ship on approximately Nov. 9th.  One day before my birthday, so this will be a really big present to myself.  
Glenn:
I saw your unit today.
It's a nice new toy.
GAB
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: jfric on November 04, 2018, 02:05:55 PM
Welcome jfric! Where are ya located?
Thank you! We are just north of Houston, Texas.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Glenn1 on November 06, 2018, 02:05:06 PM
Two more days before it shows up.  It will be interesting to say the least.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Busysawyer on November 07, 2018, 05:51:12 PM
Anyone get the boiler option with their idry?
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: nativewolf on November 07, 2018, 08:32:51 PM
You guys are killing me.  Get it already and send some reports.  And pictures!
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: jfric on November 10, 2018, 09:22:18 AM
It's a done deal. Expecting mine to deliver sometime in January. It's going to be hard displaying excitement for my Christmas gifts knowing this thing is weeks away.  :snowball:
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: nativewolf on November 11, 2018, 09:34:26 AM
Where are the Pics guys ...where  :)
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: E-Tex on November 12, 2018, 12:51:45 PM
please excuse me if this was covered earlier in this thread......But I went to the i-dry website last night and saw they have two new (larger) models coming in 2019.  The "Plus" model and the "Turbo" model.  Says price TBD.

Does anyone have more to add?
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Busysawyer on November 12, 2018, 05:32:06 PM
We are expecting deliver either Friday or Saturday.  
Etex I saw the new models and wish I knew they were coming before I ordered the standard idry. The one issue I have with the I dry is the size limitations. They have a model that will do 60inx 17' coming. That size increase opens a while lot more business for us
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: E-Tex on November 12, 2018, 07:57:31 PM
I was told today that they should have pricing later this week.  He gave me rough price ranges, but I'll let Jim post those.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Stephen1 on November 12, 2018, 08:33:37 PM
We are expecting deliver either Friday or Saturday.  
Etex I saw the new models and wish I knew they were coming before I ordered the standard idry. The one issue I have with the I dry is the size limitations. They have a model that will do 60inx 17' coming. That size increase opens a while lot more business for us
I have been thinking the same thing. I believe that there is a shortage of kiln space. If I'm right I should be able to fill the smaller kiln and then add the larger kiln as the need arises. 48" is still a good size. I like the idea of the length increase. 
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: samandothers on November 12, 2018, 10:23:09 PM
Glenn1
Do you have your new kiln? Happy Birthday!
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: YellowHammer on November 12, 2018, 10:50:40 PM
The newer units have twice the capacity, twice the length, at the same published power consumption, and the turbo has twice the speed.



Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Stephen1 on November 13, 2018, 09:23:22 AM
The newer units have twice the capacity, twice the length, at the same published power consumption, and the turbo has twice the speed.
twice the capacity, but not twice the length, 17' and 21' versus 13'
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: YellowHammer on November 13, 2018, 01:52:49 PM
For us, being able to do multiples of 4' would be nice, i.e 8', 12', and 16'.  The higher capacities would better support our operation.  I'm interested to see how these work out for you.    
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Stephen1 on November 14, 2018, 05:03:28 PM
We are expecting deliver either Friday or Saturday.  
Etex I saw the new models and wish I knew they were coming before I ordered the standard idry. The one issue I have with the I dry is the size limitations. They have a model that will do 60inx 17' coming. That size increase opens a while lot more business for us
busysawyer, I talked to Jim yesterday, your kiln is 60" wide inside. As long as you don't fill it up with 48" plus slabs, you should be able to dry a couple at the 60" width. That will help . 
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Busysawyer on November 14, 2018, 07:25:24 PM
Stephen, I hadn't talked to Jim about it but I figured I'd try to throw a couple wide slabs on the bottom and see what happens. If I could squeeze a couple or even one near 60in on each cycle I'd be happy.  It would be nice to have more length, recently I sold 4 48in x 18ft slabs that I'm going to have to hire out the drying. The 13ft will accommodate most of my needs though. I'm going to have to tell my loggers no more long logs. I forget to mention it and the last load they brought me about a dozen nice straight walnut logs cut just over 14ft. Friday is the day for me, shipping company anticipates late morning or early afternoon . I rented a 9k telehandler that is getting delivered Friday at 8am and picked up Monday morning to unload and move the kiln. Getting it down the hill and into the barn should be interesting.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Glenn1 on November 15, 2018, 09:26:31 AM
Busysawyer,

I rec'd my Idry last week and moved it into our barn.  Mine has an ID of 48".  I read that you will be using a 9,000 lb. telehandler for your unit.  If your unit is 60" ID, I am wondering if the telehandler can carry the additional weight?
To be on the safe side, I used a 15,000 lb.  warehouse forklift with side shift and put down heavy duty ground protection mats to be sure that the tires did not dig in.  I realize that the telehandler's tires probably won't need the mats.  

Enjoy your unit!!
Glenn
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Busysawyer on November 15, 2018, 10:30:40 AM
Glenn, I spoke with Jim today. Your kiln is the same as mine. 60in inside chamber width.  Reccomend max of 48in wide lumber stack. Also the idry site has been updated with pricing for the new models. Both well out of my range at the moment. If all three models were available at the time I ordered mine I would have still ordered the same model.  Hopefully this kiln is profitable to the point I can get one of the other models at some point. Vaccutherm is doing some exciting things that's for sure.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Busysawyer on November 15, 2018, 06:39:23 PM
Just curious,  you guys that have taken delivery of your idry are you able to lift the kiln from the bottom with forks or just dangle it with chains from the lift points on top? Thanks 
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Glenn1 on November 16, 2018, 12:20:30 PM
I have two 6,000 lb. chains that I was going to use but I changed my mind.  The forks would have to be 8' +- to pick the unit up by the chains.  That's too high in my opinion.  Also, I found that picking it up from the bottom felt more secure.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: japarker4 on November 16, 2018, 01:52:25 PM
iDRY has a new website that might be helpful to you guys. More added daily including specs, pricing and pictures of the new models: www.idrywood.com
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Busysawyer on November 16, 2018, 07:42:35 PM
Well its here and in it's new home. I dangled it with chains until I got it in the barn and then forked it with the bobcat. A few pics.
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/49432/20181116_120807.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1542415271)
 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/49432/20181116_122853.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1542415267)
 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/49432/20181116_144940.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1542415248)
 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/49432/20181116_150130.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1542415239)
 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/49432/20181116_193336.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1542415221)
 
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Busysawyer on November 16, 2018, 08:09:55 PM
Just curious if any of you guys received an actual manual with your kiln besides the vague pdf they send with email. I had my certified electrician over this afternoon to hook up the main power and the pump for the boiler water and he wouldn't touch it without a wiring diagram. The main power to feed the kiln is self explanatory but neither one of us could be certain on how to hook the water pump up. Left a voicemail to there tech support guy early afternoon and no call back. You think they'd ship the thing with an actual manual and basic wiring diagram.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: E-Tex on November 16, 2018, 08:59:54 PM
Busy.....kiln looks great in it's new home.  Congratz and best of luck! 

please keep info, pics, drying challenges and success coming.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: scsmith42 on November 17, 2018, 12:16:16 PM
I had the good fortune to meet Jim Parker in person this past Monday and to tour the Vacutherm facilities.  Jim is a second generation vacuum kiln manufacturer and the current iDry model is loosely based upon technology that Jim's father developed when he started Vacutherm back in the 1990's.

Most of Vacutherm's history has been in building large (and somewhat complex) vacuum kilns for commercial operations.  In the past few years Jim decided to focus on simplifying the product as much as possible and bringing out a model for the growing small sawyer and kiln operator market.  The IDry is the result.

Some notable facts about the iDry product.  First, everything inside is made from either stainless steel or aluminum.  This means that these should stay in operating condition for decades - unlike some other kiln products.

Jim's focus has been on making the vacuum drying process as simple and trouble free as possible.  Components that can break have been kept to a minimum, and the entire process (control, degree of vacuum, heating, pump, etc) have been designed to be minimal and durable as possible.  This means that you should have less operating maintenance costs and downtime over the life of the unit.  Additionally Jim has figured out how to balance the rate of drying with the actual MC% of the lumber - somewhat automating and simplifying the process.

As others in this thread have mentioned Vacutherm is bringing out some additional models next year. The main difference between models (other than size) is the method used to introduce heat into the lumber during the drying process.  The iDry model does not pull as much vacuum as other models, and so it can use stickered lumber and heat circulated by fans inside the kiln.  The more expensive models use heat plates in lieu of stickers in the lumber stacks, with a heating solution circulated through the plates.  This is much more complex and expensive approach, but the benefit is that a lower vacuum can be pulled - thus speeding up the drying process.

We had some great conversations and I came away very impressed by Jim as well as his product.  My assessment is that this is a product and a company that you can purchase from with confidence.

Scott
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: nativewolf on November 17, 2018, 01:48:55 PM
Busy.....kiln looks great in it's new home.  Congratz and best of luck!

please keep info, pics, drying challenges and success coming.
Ditto, not sure if I am more jealous of the newly insulated barn or the kiln.  Just to be sure I'd say I'm just darn jealous :D.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: nativewolf on November 17, 2018, 01:51:22 PM
I had the good fortune to meet Jim Parker in person this past Monday and to tour the Vacutherm facilities.  Jim is a second generator vacuum kiln manufacturer and the current iDry model is loosely based upon technology that Jim's father developed when he started Vacutherm back in the 1990's.

Most of Vacutherm's history has been in building large (and somewhat complex) vacuum kilns for commercial operations.  In the past few years Jim decided to focus on simplifying the product as much as possible and bringing out a model for the growing small sawyer and kiln operator market.  The IDry is the result.

Some notable facts about the iDry product.  First, everything inside is made from either stainless steel or aluminum.  This means that these should stay in operating condition for decades - unlike some other kiln products.

Jim's focus has been on making the vacuum drying process as simple and trouble free as possible.  Components that can break have been kept to a minimum, and the entire process (control, degree of vacuum, heating, pump, etc) have been designed to be minimal and durable as possible.  This means that you should have less operating maintenance costs and downtime over the life of the unit.  Additionally Jim has figured out how to balance the rate of drying with the actual MC% of the lumber - somewhat automating and simplifying the process.

As others in this thread have mentioned Vacutherm is bringing out some additional models next year. The main difference between models (other than size) is the method used to introduce heat into the lumber during the drying process.  The iDry model does not pull as much vacuum as other models, and so it can use stickered lumber and heat circulated by fans inside the kiln.  The more expensive models use heat plates in lieu of stickers in the lumber stacks, with a heating solution circulated through the plates.  This is much more complex and expensive approach, but the benefit is that a lower vacuum can be pulled - thus speeding up the drying process.

We had some great conversations and I came away very impressed by Jim as well as his product.  My assessment is that this is a product and a company that you can purchase from with confidence.

Scott
Thanks for the update.  This is going to be a game changer for the slabbing world.  The most economical approach to slab drying by far.  Glad to hear the first hand account...now inquiring minds want to know did you pop on the newer longer versions or the original?
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Bruno of NH on November 17, 2018, 02:15:41 PM
Scsmith42 
Did you visit vt ?
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: scsmith42 on November 17, 2018, 05:08:53 PM
I had the good fortune to meet Jim Parker in person this past Monday and to tour the Vacutherm facilities.  Jim is a second generator vacuum kiln manufacturer and the current iDry model is loosely based upon technology that Jim's father developed when he started Vacutherm back in the 1990's.

Most of Vacutherm's history has been in building large (and somewhat complex) vacuum kilns for commercial operations.  In the past few years Jim decided to focus on simplifying the product as much as possible and bringing out a model for the growing small sawyer and kiln operator market.  The IDry is the result.

Some notable facts about the iDry product.  First, everything inside is made from either stainless steel or aluminum.  This means that these should stay in operating condition for decades - unlike some other kiln products.

Jim's focus has been on making the vacuum drying process as simple and trouble free as possible.  Components that can break have been kept to a minimum, and the entire process (control, degree of vacuum, heating, pump, etc) have been designed to be minimal and durable as possible.  This means that you should have less operating maintenance costs and downtime over the life of the unit.  Additionally Jim has figured out how to balance the rate of drying with the actual MC% of the lumber - somewhat automating and simplifying the process.

As others in this thread have mentioned Vacutherm is bringing out some additional models next year. The main difference between models (other than size) is the method used to introduce heat into the lumber during the drying process.  The iDry model does not pull as much vacuum as other models, and so it can use stickered lumber and heat circulated by fans inside the kiln.  The more expensive models use heat plates in lieu of stickers in the lumber stacks, with a heating solution circulated through the plates.  This is much more complex and expensive approach, but the benefit is that a lower vacuum can be pulled - thus speeding up the drying process.

We had some great conversations and I came away very impressed by Jim as well as his product.  My assessment is that this is a product and a company that you can purchase from with confidence.

Scott
Thanks for the update.  This is going to be a game changer for the slabbing world.  The most economical approach to slab drying by far.  Glad to hear the first hand account...now inquiring minds want to know did you pop on the newer longer versions or the original?
Agreed re game changing.

I'm still evaluating options.  My challenge is that we specialize in white oak - particularly quartersawing, and even with a vacuum kiln it is difficult to dry white oak quickly and consistently. Well over 50% of what we dry is WO and Jim was not optimistic about drying it from green in an iDry kiln.

If our primary drying needs were other species, I probably would not have left Jim's plant w/o signing an order.  The fact that he was so forthcoming about setting proper expectations about what his kilns could - and could not do - was even more impressive.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: scsmith42 on November 17, 2018, 05:09:24 PM
Scsmith42
Did you visit vt ?
Yes.  I drove up last Sunday and spent last Monday afternoon with Jim at Vacutherm in Barre, VT.  

Tuesday I was in Granville NY removing from service and loading this bad boy to bring back to NC.  I had purchased it at an Industrial Recovery Services Auction (Manchester Wood, Inc) last week, which added an interesting dynamic to what was originally planned to be a relaxing trip.


(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13296/20181113_102639.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1542472077)
 

I was the first load-out from the auction and there was no way to get a forklift near the machine due to the proximity of other equipment as well as minimal door widths that were available.  We ended up jacking it up and placing it on machine skates and then rolling it through the aisles and down a ramp onto my trailer deck (through an 8' wide loading dock door).



(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13296/20181114_082052.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1542493082)
 


Wednesday AM I met with FF member Jcbrotz in Binghamton, NY to pick up a Woodmizer SLR from him, and Wednesday afternoon I spent 6 hours in a parking lot changing the alternator on my F450   >:(  That was the first time that it took me more than around 30 minutes to swap out an alternator; Ford did not want to make it easy, to say the least....

After getting the truck back in service I drove south for several hours in order to beat the incoming winter storm and came on back into NC on Thursday.

The Moulder is in it's new home as of late Friday morning.  


(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13296/Moulder_in_shop.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1542471952)
 


I have a couple of days of dust collection system to rework next week, as well as the electrical service to the new machine and the previous ones that had to be relocated in the shop.  Hopefully will be making shavings before Thanksgiving.

It was a whirlwind trip, made even more so by the winter storms that chased me while I was there as well as on the way back home.  
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Busysawyer on November 17, 2018, 05:33:05 PM
Jim and vaccutherm in general have been great to deal with. I dont know how Jim finds time to run a company and answer all my questions let alone everyone else's. I've called that guy so many times and he almost always answers or he calls back right away. I sent him an email this morning with some wiring questions and he promptly answered.  
My kiln is all hooked up and ready to work. Need to tidy up a few things but its functioning and will start drying wood tommorow .
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/49432/20181116_214126.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1542493894)
 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/49432/20181116_214145.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1542493893)
 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/49432/20181116_214235.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1542493891)
 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/49432/20181117_144945.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1542493889)
 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/49432/20181117_152724.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1542493889)
 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/49432/20181117_170309.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1542493885)
 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/49432/20181117_170317.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1542493885)
 
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Bruno of NH on November 17, 2018, 06:31:36 PM
Nice looking unit
I didn't know someone made them so close to me.
When I rode Harleys I bought them from a dealership in Barre Vt.
Wilkins great folks.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Stephen1 on November 18, 2018, 09:28:42 AM
Busysawyer, Thanks for the pictures and updates.
 scsmith42- thanks for the updates and the visit. I wanted to know some more before i have to send money across the border. 
I am just working on the financing support.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Glenn1 on November 18, 2018, 09:18:47 PM
Just curious if any of you guys received an actual manual with your kiln besides the vague pdf they send with email. I had my certified electrician over this afternoon to hook up the main power and the pump for the boiler water and he wouldn't touch it without a wiring diagram. The main power to feed the kiln is self explanatory but neither one of us could be certain on how to hook the water pump up. Left a voicemail to there tech support guy early afternoon and no call back. You think they'd ship the thing with an actual manual and basic wiring diagram.
I have to agree about needing a detailed manual.    I am not the most knowledgeable about electronics and have had an error message come up in the boot up stage.  Sent an email to Jim this evening asking for clarification.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Busysawyer on November 19, 2018, 03:13:38 PM
Glenn,  I'm sure Jim can get it sorted out. I don't know electronics but I do have a good grasp on electric and wiring.

Its official,  the kiln is loaded and running. So far everything seems to be operating as it should. I overloaded the kiln width wise and I'm not sure how this run is going to go. I wanted to figure out right away if I could get away with it. 90% 2 3/8 walnut slabs of various mc. Some air dried 6 months some 1 month. Delorme meter is telling me 20% up to 32%. Also threw in a few sticks of 8/4 cherry to see what happens with that. Threw in a little 5/4 walnut slabs pretty much fresh milled on top. If this kiln can make this oversized mixed load work I'll be thoroughly impressed.  Fingers crossed.
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/49432/20181119_142450.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1542658391)
 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/49432/20181119_142506.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1542658385)
 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/49432/20181119_143421.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1542658385)
 
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: samandothers on November 19, 2018, 03:23:22 PM
 popcorn_smiley
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Stephen1 on November 19, 2018, 06:03:16 PM
Thats a great way to start! Go big
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: nativewolf on November 19, 2018, 06:46:28 PM
Personally I am surprised at all the gaps, you could have stuck some firewood kindling in there.  What a waste of space. :D :D :D

Really enjoying all the pictures.  Living vicariously.   
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Glenn1 on November 19, 2018, 08:45:31 PM
This morning, I called Jim to say that I was getting an error message about low power and then the breakers would trip.  We wired it ourselves so at Jim's suggestion, I brought in a licensed electrician to make sure that the voltage was correct.  We were getting 240V but when the kiln started up, it was only pulling .5 amps and shortly thereafter the breakers would trip.    Jim had a few engineers with him as he gave us things to look for.  After doing quite a bit of testing, we found a wire that was touching a large bolt  back in the main panel.  Vacutherm tests every model before they go out so it was strange to see that this wire had shifted and shorted itself out.  We replaced the wire and the system is now operational.

I have dealt with a lot of companies over technical issues but Jim and his crew are the absolute best.  I am very appreciative to the time and professionalism that they showed.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: boardmaker on November 20, 2018, 09:06:27 AM
Glenn,

Keep the info coming.  This is a great thread!

Like the others, I'm living vicariously through you.

Lucas
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Glenn1 on November 20, 2018, 08:15:57 PM
I am now up and running. I put 4/4 green cedar, 4/4 walnut with a MC of 28, and some live edge 8/4 walnut slabs (Mc over 30 but air dried for 5 months).  Jim said that I should wait till Sunday before opening the kiln to check Mc.  So far, so good
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Busysawyer on November 22, 2018, 05:21:14 PM
Glenn,  what kind of temps are you seeing? 24hrs in I was at about 133f, 48hrs about 140f and at 72 hours in 147f.  I know the temp depends on load size and overall mc just curious as to that you are seeing. Thanks
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: YellowHammer on November 22, 2018, 10:35:02 PM
Did anybody get a drying schedule, or drying conditions for their kilns?   Temperature vs pressure vs moisture removal rate vs species? Are these published anywhere?  How do you know where you are in terms of safety factors, drying optimization, etc? What algorithm is the kiln using? Did the manufacturer provide knowdge or just a ďset it and forget itĒ system?  Can you slow the schedule down?  Speed it up?  Customize it? 
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Busysawyer on November 23, 2018, 01:24:11 AM
Yh. It is pretty much just push start. As far as I can tell there isn't much for options. I know they can change things but as an end user I think there is pretty much one option.  Push start.  I think I might be able to adjust the duration of the fan direction but I haven't tried. It runs 2hours one way then 2 hours the other. The vac is consistent throughout the process .  It pumps down to 7.6 inHg at shuts off the pump . When  it hits 8.4 inHg the pump comes back on. It dumps for 10 min each 24hour period to let the water that has pooled on the floor out.  I think what Jim said is that it took them a long time and a lot of r and d to get this system to work the way it does and they dont want people to go around and mess with setting. He said Nile kiln owners are the hardest people to get to understand that there is no drying schedule and it really does work as simple as pushing start.  
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: PA_Walnut on November 23, 2018, 07:39:01 AM
He said Nile kiln owners are the hardest people to get to understand that there is no drying schedule and it really does work as simple as pushing start.  

:o Was he formally an Apple engineer?
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Busysawyer on November 23, 2018, 08:56:48 AM
Pa, that's funny. I doubt it. He doesn't seem to have the necessary smug levels to be an apple employee.  I've had numerous conversations with the guy over the last few months. We've talked about things not kiln related. Such as family, projects around the house, my business goals.  He is very down to earth, intelligent and it is obvious he is excited about drying wood and really believes in the products he is selling. 
Here are some more pics of the control screen

(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/49432/20181123_083522.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1542981332)
 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/49432/20181123_083501.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1542981330)
 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/49432/20181123_083452.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1542981348)
 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/49432/20181123_083442.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1542981349)
 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/49432/20181123_083302.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1542981357)
 
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: YellowHammer on November 23, 2018, 09:16:22 AM
Busy, thanks for providing the photos.  
What is the blue line in the graph?  I can't see the legend. 

What capacity are the heat strips?  Looks like the heat strips are "On Off" as opposed to continuously "On" until the steady state temps are reached.  That is a curious setting, indicating too rapid heating to final operating temperature should be avoided?  

I have been doing some literature research about vacuum drying technology and process, and a paper co-authored by @Wood Doctor (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=18547) Dr. Wengert is very interesting reading, identifying and reviewing the advantageous and disadvantageous of vacuum drying in a an 18 month or so drying evaluation.  "Vacuum Drying In A Small Commercial Kiln-18 Months Experience," R.W. Rice and E. M. Wengert.  This study was not done on the iDry, but another manufacturer.  As I have said before, I have no experience with vacuum drying but the methodology is very interesting to me.  Gene, if you have other documents you recommend, please give us a reading list.  

Does the kiln have these possible following drying characteristics, both pro and con?

Quote from the paper, "The overall quality of the dried wood has been excellent with very little splitting or checking, minimal casehardening, and with very good color."

"... on the other hand, without casehardening, (or tension set) and the dry outside shell, vacum drying may produce more warp." 

"From time to time, for reasons not fully understood by us, we did notice more cup than we would have expected in conventional drying." 

"We found that shorter pieces dried to a more uniform MC and faster than long pieces."

"We found the squares dried better than lumber."

"Thinner lumber dried better and more evenly than thicker"

"We also seemed to find...a piece of lumber that had a region of high MC even though the rest of the piece was quite dry."


If there is no published schedule, I'd like to know the settings to better understand what is happening.  Seems the vacuum pump cycles at about 8 inHg constantly with a moderate deadband, and the temps seems to be controlled to a constant 150F or so, after an initial gentle rise, and the fans reverse on a timer, is there any variability on the timing or magnitude of these settings?


Thanks, any and all info is appreciated.




  




  

Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: GAB on November 23, 2018, 09:31:13 AM
@japarker4 (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=40197):
In entry 132, the second and third photos, the title is SYTEM SETUP.
Since I could not find SYTEM in the dictionary I am assuming it is an acronym.
I'm curious as to what it stands for.
TIA,
Gerald
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Busysawyer on November 23, 2018, 09:54:14 AM
Looks like a misspelling of system. I never even noticed, my brain just added the s. 
Yh, the blue line is vac. pressure. The spike is when it dumps accumulated water. As far as heat, I'm heating with a wood boiler. The fluctuations in heat are just the fan reversing. Blowing towards the temp sensor and then away. The temps hit 135f pretty quickly and have very slowly increasing as the wood is drying. 
Is the evaluation gene is working on done with a vac kiln with heat plates or a kiln like the idry with less vacuum and air flow?
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Busysawyer on November 23, 2018, 10:12:45 AM
Yh, as far as heat goes mine is a fan and exchanger. The kiln has been constantly calling for heat from the boiler pump. Jim said it is sized so it should be constantly heating until the load has dried sufficiently to reach the max temp of 160f. At that point it will stop calling for heat. He said the less mc in the wood the higher the temps will climb. I am nowhere near as knowledgeable on kiln drying as you and many others here are. I have done quite a bit of reading on the subject and have learned quite a bit from my phone conversations with you but still have just a basic understanding of the process. From my limited knowledge it sure seems that vac kilns are a whole lot different than the conventional dh kilns so many here have experience with.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Glenn1 on November 23, 2018, 09:02:42 PM
Glenn,  what kind of temps are you seeing? 24hrs in I was at about 133f, 48hrs about 140f and at 72 hours in 147f.  I know the temp depends on load size and overall mc just curious as to that you are seeing. Thanks
I used the heat boost button since the boards had already been air dried.  The last couple of days have varied between 130 and 144.  The exception is when the drain opens for 10 minutes every 24 hours.  The temp then drops into the mid 120í2 and the vacuum goes all the way back to 30 (our normal atmosphere).  Then it works itís way down to 7.8 or 8.  I will probably need to insulate the area close to the vacuum end of the container as the vacuum makes a faint amount of noise when it runs.  (I have decibel readings if youíre interested.). I will be opening the kiln on Sunday and checking the wood. Iím expecting the cedar and the 4/4 to be close to being done.  I donít expect the 8/4 walnut to be ready.  Iím not sure if Iíll add additional wood to the 8/4 walnut.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: scsmith42 on November 23, 2018, 09:23:01 PM
Robert, as I recall from my conversation with Jim, his method of simplifying the process is as follows.

1 - introduce a predetermined amount of BTU's of heat into the lumber.
2 - as the vacuum pulls moisture out of the lumber, a cooling effect occurs within the kiln chamber.
3 - as the lumber becomes drier, less moisture is removed, thus less cooling takes place, which in turn allows the temps in the kiln to increase.
4 - once the MC% removal is minimal, the temps increase to 160, and the drying is complete.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Busysawyer on November 23, 2018, 09:36:36 PM
Glenn, sounds like yours is running very similar to mine. I was curious if the electric heated model would climb up to temp quicker.  
Sc, that sounds about right . I cant imagine how much electric heat one of these units uses. The heat exchanger on mine is large. Bigger than my 200k btu shop heater. Mine has been calling for heat going on 5 days now without stopping. It looks like it is delivering the max amount of heat it is capable of. Like you said the temp climbs because there is less evaporation and less water to heat. The amount of heat introduced to the kiln stays the same.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: PA_Walnut on November 24, 2018, 07:17:50 AM
Pa, that's funny. I doubt it. He doesn't seem to have the necessary smug levels to be an apple employee.


OK, but watch for the indicators: black turtleneck shirts, consumption of organic cashews, wool caps (worn even in summer), overall defensive behavior, man-purse, and electrically-powered vehicle(s).
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: WDH on November 24, 2018, 07:52:07 AM
Do y'all measure the water coming out of the vacuum kiln?
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Glenn1 on November 24, 2018, 09:08:00 AM
There are two 1 1í4Ē pipes that exhaust water.  They are only a few inches apart. One is obviously for the water that is removed from the wood. The other pipe is water that has been run thru the vacuum.  When the vacuum is running, it uses 3/4 gallons of water per minute.  Right now, I have them being collected together and sent outside.  Iím waiting to see how the first load comes out.  If there are any issues, then I may start measuring the output.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Southside on November 24, 2018, 09:24:14 AM
When the vacuum is running, it uses 3/4 gallons of water per minute


Glenn - can you explain that a bit more?  I don't understand what you mean by that.
Thanks
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Busysawyer on November 24, 2018, 09:31:44 AM
Wdh, like Glenn I'm just letting mine go to the drain. Not measuring it.
South side, the vac pump requires a water line to cool the pump. When vac pump is running it uses .75 gpm. 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/49432/20181124_092856.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1543069887)
 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/49432/20181124_092835.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1543069887)
 
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Busysawyer on November 24, 2018, 09:41:45 AM
Southside, few more pics of the water supply.
The vac pump runs intermittently. When the pressure drops the pump kick on. It runs for maybe 1 minute to regain the set pressure. By my rough calculations it is wasting about 4 gallons per hour.
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/49432/20181124_093308~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1543070491)
 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/49432/20181124_093332~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1543070492)
 
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Southside on November 24, 2018, 10:00:56 AM
Thanks BS, that makes sense.  
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: japarker4 on November 24, 2018, 10:29:20 AM
@japarker4 (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=40197):
In entry 132, the second and third photos, the title is SYTEM SETUP.
Since I could not find SYTEM in the dictionary I am assuming it is an acronym.
I'm curious as to what it stands for.
TIA,
Gerald
Thanks for the proof reading Gerald. Weíll get it changed on Monday!
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: japarker4 on November 24, 2018, 10:44:09 AM
Quote
OK, but watch for the indicators: black turtleneck shirts, consumption of organic cashews, wool caps (worn even in summer), overall defensive behavior, man-purse, and electrically-powered vehicle(s).
My wife does feed me organic sometimes. Otherwise I drive a pickup truck and wear somewhat dirty Carhartts everyday!
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: japarker4 on November 24, 2018, 11:09:44 AM
Glenn, sounds like yours is running very similar to mine. I was curious if the electric heated model would climb up to temp quicker.  
Sc, that sounds about right . I cant imagine how much electric heat one of these units uses. The heat exchanger on mine is large. Bigger than my 200k btu shop heater. Mine has been calling for heat going on 5 days now without stopping. It looks like it is delivering the max amount of heat it is capable of. Like you said the temp climbs because there is less evaporation and less water to heat. The amount of heat introduced to the kiln stays the same.
Our hot water coil is significantly smaller than 200MBTU.  The electric coils are only a few kw each, similar to the power consumption of a small DH kiln. 
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Busysawyer on November 24, 2018, 11:56:51 AM
Jim, I think what is throwing me off is the thickness of the exchanger. I have a bp-200 water to air exchanger. It is roughly 24x24 but it is about 3 times the thickness of the exchanger in the kiln and has a 2350 cfm rating. 
So I checked on the kiln load today. I was seeing the temp just over 150f. Some of the 4/4 that was pretty well air dried was at 6-7% mc according to the delmhorst j2000. All the 8/4 was pretty darn consistent at 8-9 % mc. Very little if any warping or cupping. Most of the slabs had anchor seal in the ends and very little checking. The few slabs that weren't sealed have moderate checking. All in all very impressive results from where I'm sitting. I put this load in Monday afternoon and it looks like it will be coming out tommorow.  I'm attributing the success to my extraordinary ability to push the start button.  I put a lot of time in to study how to push the start button and it looks like I nailed it first time out.😆
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: nativewolf on November 24, 2018, 10:30:30 PM
Jim, I think what is throwing me off is the thickness of the exchanger. I have a bp-200 water to air exchanger. It is roughly 24x24 but it is about 3 times the thickness of the exchanger in the kiln and has a 2350 cfm rating.
So I checked on the kiln load today. I was seeing the temp just over 150f. Some of the 4/4 that was pretty well air dried was at 6-7% mc according to the delmhorst j2000. All the 8/4 was pretty darn consistent at 8-9 % mc. Very little if any warping or cupping. Most of the slabs had anchor seal in the ends and very little checking. The few slabs that weren't sealed have moderate checking. All in all very impressive results from where I'm sitting. I put this load in Monday afternoon and it looks like it will be coming out tommorow.  I'm attributing the success to my extraordinary ability to push the start button.  I put a lot of time in to study how to push the start button and it looks like I nailed it first time out.😆
@Busysawyer (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=39432)- two people called today looking for you but i couldn't make out the numbers.  One is the Geico easy ad agency, the other is Holiday Inn head of PR.   No idea what they want but I'll take their message next time.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Busysawyer on November 25, 2018, 03:02:46 PM
Native wolf , I let me secretary handle all phone calls.
So the load came out of the kiln today. Overall very impressed . Very consistent mc, 6-7% in all of about 50 places I poked. Cut a foot of if one of the pith cracked slabs and even moisture in the center as well. Most of the lumber behaved itself. Had one 8/4 cherry board the cupped and twisted a little and some of the low grade 4/4 walnut I put on the top to fill empty spaces moved as well. Besides that everything looks great. I have a few loads of 4/4 of various species that is thoroughly air dried I'm going to cycle through to heat treat over the next couple days. 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/49432/20181125_114814.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1543176131)
 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/49432/20181125_114808.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1543176127)
 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/49432/20181125_130801.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1543176057)
 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/49432/20181125_130512.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1543176067)
 
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Glenn1 on November 25, 2018, 08:10:35 PM
My first load went in last Tuesday.  Today, I opened the kiln to take a peak.  The 4/4 cedar mc was 7-9%. The 4/4 walnut was 10-13%.  My 8/4 walnut slabs will still need another week.  I plan to take out the 4/4 cedar and walnut on Tuesday.  They should be ready.  From what I could see, the boards looked flat and I did not notice any checking.  (All boards were previously sealed with anchor Seal).  
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Southside on November 25, 2018, 08:13:25 PM
Glenn - 

When doing a mixed load like that - just curious how do you deal with the sterilization component? 
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Glenn1 on November 26, 2018, 06:45:37 AM
The kiln has been running in the 150 degree range for the last 18 hours so I imagine that the internal temperature is above 133 degrees.  All boards should now be sterilized.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: nativewolf on November 26, 2018, 09:30:34 PM
That sterilization question was exactly what I wanted to know.  So can you get Phyto certs with these kilns?
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Busysawyer on November 26, 2018, 09:59:19 PM
I put in that small load of air dried red oak for about 18 hours. It was air dried for 6 months under open sided canopy. Then it sat in the heated barn for a couple weeks with a large fan circulating air. I checked in about 20 places before running it through the kiln. Found readings from 8-10% mc. I started the kiln late afternoon, the next morning the kiln was just under 160f . I pulled the load a couple hours later and checked another 20 spots or so. All readings came back 6-7% mc. Happy with the results again. I was planning on starting another quick overnight run today but snowstorm kept me busy moving snow and hanging out with the kids. 
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: nativewolf on November 26, 2018, 10:53:04 PM
How do you check for case hardening on your oak?   Could you send pictures of end grain on the oak?  

Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Busysawyer on November 26, 2018, 11:16:06 PM
Native wolf, I'm not sure what is the correct way to check. Like I said before I am far from an expert. I have done a fair amount of reading and talking to guys with air and kiln drying experience but I am  very new to this. I knew enough when I started to air dry the oak sheltered from the wind to slow down drying. I guess I figured after 6 months of air drying and a couple weeks in a dry heated shop I wouldn't have to worry about case hardening. I tested this the same way I test everything.  Poke a bunch of different places throughout the pile and cut a bord or two in half and see if I get the same readings in the center. I'd be happy to take a picture. Do you want a pic of the end grain of the cut from bucking the log before it was milled or a fresh cut?
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: ronwood on November 26, 2018, 11:50:32 PM
This may help with unerstanding case hardening

How to Test for Case-hardened Lumber | Popular Woodworking Magazine (https://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/how-to-test-for-case-hardened-lumber)

https://www.extension.purdue.edu/extmedia/FNR/FNR-132.pdf

Ron
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: nativewolf on November 27, 2018, 08:50:52 AM
Busysawyer, yeah that would be great.  I'm really intrigued by these small vacuum kilns.  We'd built a demo and were putting together some larger build plans but now forget about it.  This would be so so much easier.  I think the economic impact of these kilns is actually an important game changer.  Assuming we can get certifications re to sterilization these could completely change marketing for us.  So yes, any and all info and send me a PM if you ever want to arrange time to chat.  
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Busysawyer on November 27, 2018, 09:04:47 AM
Ron, thank you for the link. I dont have a saw that I am comfortable with trying to RIP 1 in material with so I cant really do those tests properly. 
Nativewolf, here are some pics. I made a few cuts but not a proper test.
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/49432/20181127_085135.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1543327465)
 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/49432/20181127_085131.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1543327464)
 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/49432/20181127_085142.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1543327450)
 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/49432/20181127_085627.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1543327435)
 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/49432/20181127_085638.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1543327432)
 
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: nativewolf on November 27, 2018, 04:16:45 PM
Ron, thank you for the link. I dont have a saw that I am comfortable with trying to RIP 1 in material with so I cant really do those tests properly.
Nativewolf, here are some pics. I made a few cuts but not a proper test.
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/49432/20181127_085135.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1543327465)
 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/49432/20181127_085131.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1543327464)
 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/49432/20181127_085142.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1543327450)
 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/49432/20181127_085627.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1543327435)
 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/49432/20181127_085638.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1543327432)

paging yellowhammer or gene
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: PA_Walnut on November 28, 2018, 05:42:46 AM
I don't believe its possible to case-harden 8-10% material. It needs to be above EMC.

Put some green in there and put the screws to it and see what you get.I am going to assume that since oak is ring-porous, the vac will suck the water right out of the ends it and it will be fine....just a logical assumption.

Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Glenn1 on November 29, 2018, 06:54:47 PM
Good News! Today we took out the 4/4 walnut and the 4/4 cedar.  There was no checking nor cupping.  The Mc was between 6.4 and 7.3.  They have been planed and are now on the shelf.  
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: WDH on November 29, 2018, 08:24:07 PM
Good news indeed!
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Busysawyer on November 29, 2018, 08:57:30 PM
Glad to hear its working well for you as well Glenn.  I found something that was a little bit strange.  I'm sure there is a scientific explanation for this but it is probably beyond my comprehension.  I ran that little load of air dried red oak and in 18 hours temps were near 160f and the wood was dried down to 6-7%. After that I immediately put in a small load of 4/4 walnut that I had previously had in my solar kiln for two months or so and had it down to 7-8%. Then it sat outside under cover for a few months. I tested it at 10% or so when I put it in the vac kiln. I thought it would be another overnight dry-sterilize. Checked about 18 hours later , temps in the high 140s mc 8-9%. It took about 40 hours to get that load up to 160f and down to 6-7%. Kind of surprised the solar kiln dried walnut took twice as long to dry as the air dried red oak.  Sure did come out nice though. Loaded another oversize load of hard maple today. 16/4, 12/4, 8/4,6/4 and a little 4/4 as well. 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/49432/20181129_094143.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1543543028)
 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/49432/20181129_094121.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1543543027)
 
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: PA_Walnut on November 30, 2018, 06:34:28 AM
I need one of those things to catch-up on the drying! Are your sales able to keep up on the output end? If so, should pay for that thing in NO TIME!  :o
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: YellowHammer on November 30, 2018, 10:24:51 AM
Re Prong Test:
As noted the prong test specimens need to be cut down the end of the boards several inches, I like 6 inches, parrallel to the face.  Think of an Oreo cookie, cutting out the white center layer between the outer black layers.  

Iíve done it with a portable band saw or a sawzall.  Chuck the board, I like 4 to 6 inches wide, into a vice, end facing up and make a couple cuts as long as possible from the end, parrallel to the faces, trying to keep the same distance from each face, and say remove the inner 2/3rds of the board.   Basically cut out the white center of the board, leaving the faces intact. Remove the white creamy filling.  :D
Then sit back and watch the prongs and see what happens.  Sometimes they bend instantly, sometimes its take awhile.  Itís a very useful test.

Or do a planer test, run an 8 foot or longer straight board, and I mean dead straight, sighted along its edge on its side so gravity doesnít play a factor, through the planer and take successive cuts 1/8Ē all from the same side.  Unbalance the fibers in the board.  If there is residual stress in the board, then as the one face gets shaved and unbalanced, the board will begin to bow.  It will keep bowing and then maybe even straighten as the face gets removed.

Then repeat the test with a bowed board, and take the all the meat from the high side.  If the board start to change shape, bow more, or reverse bow, then itís stressed.  

Stress can be caused by several things.  

Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Brad_bb on November 30, 2018, 10:35:46 AM
A few things:

Busysawyer, did you need to insulate and seal the barn, or was that just a preference for you, nicer to work in etc?

I see the material loads on a car and rolls on rails into the kiln, but do you then have to move the rails in order to close the door?  How does that process work of moving the rails if that's what you do?

One issue is that when you dry wood down to 6-7%, You need to have a place to keep it at 6-7%.  If you just put it in a shed/pole barn, it's going to reabsorb moisture isn't it?  So that tells me that anything you dry needs to be sold right away so you don't have to store it in conditioned space.  The customer should also know that part of what they paid for is drying it down to that level and that they need to store it in conditioned space if they want to maintain that.  Otherwise, buy air dried wood at 10-15% MC.

So what if you have wood that you want to take from green down to only say 12%, because it's going to be used for T&G in a horse barn.  Can the idry do that?  I did that this year, had my wood Nyle kiln dried to 12 and then machined it.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Busysawyer on November 30, 2018, 12:10:21 PM
Thank you for the explanation yh.
Brad, I will be using the barn as a showroom. It is heated and will be ac when warm weather hits so I wanted it sealed and efficient.  The kiln needs a dry space that is kept above freezing. All kiln dried wood will be stored in climate controlled space. One of the selling points of the idry for me was the ability to quickly dry material thus eliminating the need for stockpiling large inventory.  If I start running low on something it can quickly and efficiently be restocked. As far as drying to specific mc , say 12%. I would just check daily.  Already I've got a pretty good idea what's going on in there by just watching the temperature graph. If you think you are getting near your target mc push the stop button then push vaccum releases button. Wait a few minutes, open the door and test. The kiln does not lose much temp and climbs back up rapidly. The kiln releases pressure once every 24 hours to drain the accumulated water that is on the floor. If you wanted to you could time your testing when the kiln dumps the pressure instead of checking when it is convenient by forcing a release.
Pa, at this point just using the kiln to finish air dried and partially air dried material it is turning over way faster than what im selling. We are new to retail and still working on setting up a store front.  I sold quite a few walnut slabs from that first load already though.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: jfric on November 30, 2018, 06:38:23 PM
A few things:

Busysawyer, did you need to insulate and seal the barn, or was that just a preference for you, nicer to work in etc?

I see the material loads on a car and rolls on rails into the kiln, but do you then have to move the rails in order to close the door?  How does that process work of moving the rails if that's what you do?

One issue is that when you dry wood down to 6-7%, You need to have a place to keep it at 6-7%.  If you just put it in a shed/pole barn, it's going to reabsorb moisture isn't it?  So that tells me that anything you dry needs to be sold right away so you don't have to store it in conditioned space.  The customer should also know that part of what they paid for is drying it down to that level and that they need to store it in conditioned space if they want to maintain that.  Otherwise, buy air dried wood at 10-15% MC.

So what if you have wood that you want to take from green down to only say 12%, because it's going to be used for T&G in a horse barn.  Can the idry do that?  I did that this year, had my wood Nyle kiln dried to 12 and then machined it.
I have a feeling this is going to start a debate. Iím not trying to start something, and Iím very willing to be proven wrong, Iím just speaking from my own limited experience. Here we go...
I think the concern about keeping kiln dried lumber in a climate controlled space gets a little too much sometimes. I live in Houston. We donít have walnut trees (or maple or cherry for that matter) so almost all of the walnut I buy comes from Missouri. It travels here on trucks that arenít climate controlled. It is delivered to hardwood lumber dealers that keep it in buildings that arenít climate controlled. Then I buy it and put it in my shop that isnít climate controlled. I tested a bunch of walnut this week that has been in my shop for well over a year and the highest reading I got on my Wagner and delmhorst meters was just over 8% (lowest readings were in the 6% range). Our average outdoor emc here is suppose to be somewhere around 13.5% I believe. 
Again, Iím happy to be proven wrong by someone who knows otherwise... but my understanding is that the bound moisture in green lumber is what is really hard to remove, but kiln dried lumber will not regain bound moisture. Any regained moisture is free moisture which the wood will release fairly quickly if it is taken into a climate controlled area to acclimate.
Iím not a moisture denier, I wouldnít store kiln dried lumber outside. Iím just saying sometime we as woodworkers can get a little overly hung up on this subject. I really do mean ďweĒ, as Iíve spent a ton of time fretting about the same thing myself. 
Iím happy to hear from anyone who can add more on this topic. If Iím misenturpreting my experience and Iím wrong Iíd like to know. If Iím right... thereís a first time for everything. I hope we are still all friends. Iíve learned an unbelievable amount from this site. Or, have I?  :)
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Busysawyer on November 30, 2018, 07:06:21 PM
Jfric, the professional full time woodworkers I have asked about this tell me that once it has been dried down to that 6-7 percent range it doesn't matter if it creeps up . I was told that it just needs to be dried to the lowest point it will ever see once and then its good.  They also said they generally will put the wood in their shop for a couple weeks to acclimate before working with it. 
Brad, regarding the track and cart system. There is a removable bridge that needs to be pulled out of the way in order to open and close the door.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Brad_bb on November 30, 2018, 08:04:47 PM
Kinda makes sense. I'm thinking you can get that "bound" moisture out by keeping it in conditioned space, but it's going to take a lot longer.  One of my first project a few years ago was very illustrative of this.  I built a small walnut table in the spring or summer with air dried wood in my shed.  The first winter it shrank 3/16".  In summer it grew again by about 1/8".  The next winter It shrunk 1/16".  Now seasonally it will grow and shrink about 1/32-1/16"
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: WDH on November 30, 2018, 08:23:57 PM
If there is more water in the wood than in the air, the water moves from the wood to the air.  If there is more water in the air than in the wood, the water moves into the wood.  If wood kiln dried to 8% is placed in a humid environment, say 80% humidity and held there constantly, the wood will gain mositure until it is in equilibrium with the humidity in the air.  This may take a while.  What complicates things is that the humidity in the air changes frequently, even daily from day to night. 
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Bruno of NH on December 02, 2018, 07:49:45 AM
My question is.
How did the old timers make and build so many beautiful pieces back in the day. 
They had no kilns.
I have worked on many old homes with some beautiful wood and woodworking .
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Bruno of NH on December 02, 2018, 07:52:17 AM
Don't get me wrong. 
If I can hobble around with my walker this summer I will be building a kiln.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Bruno of NH on December 02, 2018, 07:54:59 AM
I live near two of the Shaker villages and they made some stunning stuff
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: WDH on December 02, 2018, 08:03:11 AM
The old timers did not have climate controlled homes. They constructed their pieces to allow for seasonal movement.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Busysawyer on December 05, 2018, 07:14:58 PM
Green 4/4 hard maple rough sawn 1 1/8" right off the mill and into the kiln. 7% mc in 6 days. Pretty impressive from where I'm sitting.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: btulloh on December 05, 2018, 07:23:38 PM
Indeed it is.

How's the color?
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: nativewolf on December 05, 2018, 08:39:20 PM
Green 4/4 hard maple rough sawn 1 1/8" right off the mill and into the kiln. 7% mc in 6 days. Pretty impressive from where I'm sitting.
Wow
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: PA_Walnut on December 06, 2018, 04:56:05 AM
Indeed. All construction must still consider wood movement. I have a 2 board curly maple table I built with breadboard ends. I have witnessed it moving at LEAST 1/2" from summer to winter.

I have a good chuckle when I see Facebook and Craigslist "master craftsman" building tables that are trapped or surrounded by material that doesn't allow movement....thinking about some crazy soccer mom gunning for them soon-enough as the table has a big crack down the center.  :o :D
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Busysawyer on December 07, 2018, 08:01:55 AM
Btulloh,  I couldn't really say about the color. I've never dried maple before and I have no base for comparison 
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: btulloh on December 07, 2018, 08:45:15 AM
The desire is to maintain a light color close to the way it came off the saw.  My guess is the iDry would do a really good job of that.  Your customers will let you know if it's right.  :)
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: btulloh on December 07, 2018, 08:47:48 AM
Going right from the saw to the kiln should help with color.  The longer it sits around the more it oxidizes. 

Impressive results with that thing.  
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: YellowHammer on December 07, 2018, 08:51:19 AM
For maple, it should be as white and bright as it looked coming off the saw, excluding any slight oxidation on the exposed faces.  Even if the rough sawn faces are a little darker due to air exposure, under the surface after a very light 1/16Ē skip plane, it should be ďWowĒ white.  
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: PA_Walnut on December 08, 2018, 07:17:42 AM
ven if the rough sawn faces are a little darker due to air exposure, under the surface after a very light 1/16Ē skip plane, it should be ďWowĒ white.  


Yes indeed!! "Wow white" is alright! I do CRAZY diligence to ensure my maple is white...our motto is "snow white or it ain't right!" 
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Busysawyer on December 09, 2018, 07:50:00 PM
I haven't had any maple planed yet.  I have the builder that ordered it coming tommorow morning to pick it up. Hopefully I get some good feedback and he brings more business my way.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: japarker4 on December 10, 2018, 05:26:08 PM
We're looking for a load of slabs to use in a marketing photoshoot here at our factory in Barre, VT.  We would dry them for free.  Let me know if anyone is interested in supplying some.  Hardwood preferred (12ft x 4ft x 5ft pile)

Merry Christmas!
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: scsmith42 on December 10, 2018, 07:26:29 PM
We're looking for a load of slabs to use in a marketing photoshoot here at our factory in Barre, VT.  We would dry them for free.  Let me know if anyone is interested in supplying some.  Hardwood preferred (12ft x 4ft x 5ft pile)

Merry Christmas!
Jim, I could probably send you a load of 10/4 black walnut live edge slabs; enough to fill up a kiln load if interested.
Scott
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: japarker4 on December 11, 2018, 10:57:01 AM
We're looking for a load of slabs to use in a marketing photoshoot here at our factory in Barre, VT.  We would dry them for free.  Let me know if anyone is interested in supplying some.  Hardwood preferred (12ft x 4ft x 5ft pile)

Merry Christmas!
Jim, I could probably send you a load of 10/4 black walnut live edge slabs; enough to fill up a kiln load if interested.
Scott


Thanks Scott! We actually just had someone commit to getting us what we need for next Tuesday.  If that falls through I'll let you know. 
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: nativewolf on December 12, 2018, 05:50:51 AM
I haven't had any maple planed yet.  I have the builder that ordered it coming tommorow morning to pick it up. Hopefully I get some good feedback and he brings more business my way.
what did he think?
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: nativewolf on December 16, 2018, 05:07:36 PM
alright guys, how are the idry's doing?
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Glenn1 on December 16, 2018, 08:55:11 PM
From my standpoint, things have gone well.  My first 2 loads were 4/4 and 6/4 walnut.  The boards came out straight with no checking. I did make a mistake on my third load by mixing green black cherry and green red oak.  Initially, Cherry has a moisture content of 58% but red oak has an 80% MC.   The cherry was drying more quickly but also picked up moisture from the red oak.  After 8 days, the cherry was at 8% so it was time to remove the boards.  Because they picked up moisture during the drying process from the red oak, there was minimal cupping.  The lesson learned is to not mix woods that have a distinct differences in the moisture content.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: ellmoe on December 17, 2018, 06:46:37 AM
I placed my order and look forward to not having to air dry 2" material for a year before kd'ing. Sounds like Jim and crew are going to have to work like Santa's elves post Thanksgiving , but without the break after Christmas . I think this will be my final piece of my new mill operation. (Probably lying to myself  :D  ).
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: jfric on December 17, 2018, 08:44:00 AM
From my standpoint, things have gone well.  My first 2 loads were 4/4 and 6/4 walnut.  The boards came out straight with no checking. I did make a mistake on my third load by mixing green black cherry and green red oak.  Initially, Cherry has a moisture content of 58% but red oak has an 80% MC.   The cherry was drying more quickly but also picked up moisture from the red oak.  After 8 days, the cherry was at 8% so it was time to remove the boards.  Because they picked up moisture during the drying process from the red oak, there was minimal cupping.  The lesson learned is to not mix woods that have a distinct differences in the moisture content.
How did the red oak turn out? My iDry is scheduled to ship the first week of January. Can’t wait.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Glenn1 on December 18, 2018, 05:33:45 PM
After one week in the kiln, the red oak was at 55% MC.  Since the maximum moisture loss per day should be less than 3%,  I decided that it needs some time air drying.  Next to go into the kiln is a full load of quartersawn sycamore.  


Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Busysawyer on December 18, 2018, 09:02:11 PM
Native wolf, feedback on the maple was all positive and they have put in another order this time some 8/4 walnut slabs which I already have dry but I need to cut them a few hundred feet of 6/4 walnut lumber. 
Jfric , Ellmoe good for you guys , I'm sure you will be pleased. Pretty sure I helped push a few customers into pulling the trigger on these idry. I have been getting calls from my fb posts about the kiln. Lots of curiosity surrounding these units. If it keeps up like it has been the last few weeks I will probably be ordering another in about 6 months or so. I've been getting a lot of people wanting me to dry their wood. I'm pretty sure I could keep one busy for my retail and another kiln drying others.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Busysawyer on December 18, 2018, 09:04:10 PM
Glenn, what thickness is the red oak you are running? 
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Glenn1 on December 19, 2018, 07:47:21 PM
Glenn, what thickness is the red oak you are running?
4/4
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Busysawyer on December 20, 2018, 06:49:48 PM
Glenn, curious as to how long that needs to run for.
Pulled a load of cherry slabs out today and pushed another nice size load of walnut slabs in. 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/49432/20181220_160815.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1545349762)
 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/49432/20181220_161407.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1545349757)
 
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: nativewolf on December 20, 2018, 07:40:01 PM
Glenn, curious as to how long that needs to run for.
Pulled a load of cherry slabs out today and pushed another nice size load of walnut slabs in.  
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/49432/20181220_160815.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1545349762)
 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/49432/20181220_161407.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1545349757)

@Glenn1 (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=27307) ditto on the oak timing question.
@Busysawyer (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=39432) that is a nice looking whack of slabs.  Appreciate the updates.  
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Glenn1 on December 20, 2018, 08:07:06 PM
The red oak is currently at 55%.  If it has a maximum moisture loss of 3% per day, it will be approximately 16 days before it is dry.  In my opinion, it's taking too much electricity to dry, so I'll air dry first until it is less than 30%. 
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Stephen1 on December 22, 2018, 08:22:09 AM
Glenn, is 3% the rate that the idry pulls moisture from the wood? 
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Busysawyer on December 28, 2018, 05:05:21 PM
Glenn, how is that oak going? Surprised it would take so long. 
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Glenn1 on December 28, 2018, 07:39:57 PM
Glenn, is 3% the rate that the idry pulls moisture from the wood?
Glenn, how is that oak going? Surprised it would take so long.
I believe that the IDry will dry the wood faster than 3% a day. I am going by the recommended daily rate of moisture removal for red oak. Anything above 3% and Iíd be concerned with surface checks.
The red oak was in the kiln for one week.  At that time, it was at 55%.  I decided to bench the red oak and let it air dry for a few months.  Instead, I put a load of 4/4 quartersawn sycamore in the kiln 5 days ago.


Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Busysawyer on December 28, 2018, 09:29:25 PM
Glen,  I was under the assumption that those rates were not necessarily the same under vaccum. I know the guy by me with a vaccupress said he has little or no issues drying red oak from green and that kiln is about twice as fast as what we are running. I will give him a call to clarify and make sure I'm not spreading misinformation .
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: scsmith42 on December 29, 2018, 10:24:06 PM
Glenn, itís my understanding that you can safely dry red oak much faster than 3% per day in a vacuum kiln.

The 3% number applies to conventional and DH kilns, but not vacuum.

Did Jim provide you with a kiln schedule with the iDry?
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Glenn1 on December 30, 2018, 09:12:29 AM
Glenn, itís my understanding that you can safely dry red oak much faster than 3% per day in a vacuum kiln.

The 3% number applies to conventional and DH kilns, but not vacuum.

Did Jim provide you with a kiln schedule with the iDry?

Unfortunately, they do not offer any schedules.  Since the IDry is a new product, thereís hope that one will be offered in the near future.  For now, I have to rely on conventional schedules.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Busysawyer on December 30, 2018, 09:24:28 AM
Not sure what a schedule will do for you. It's not like we have any control over how the kiln operates . As far as I know we cant make adjustments. Idry schedule will look something like this.
Walnut=push start
Cherry=push start
Maple=push start
Etc
Etc
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Busysawyer on December 30, 2018, 09:28:35 AM
Glen,  I'm really surprised 4/4 oak was still at 55% after 1 week. I haven't dried any green oak yet but figured it would be close to the 1in thickness = 1 week in the kiln. I guess it's good I dint sell much oak at all. Walnut, cherry and maple are about all I can seem to move around here
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Glenn1 on December 30, 2018, 01:18:23 PM
When I sw Jim at Vacutherm regarding the green red oak, he suggested that I keep a fairly close eye on it.  They do say that drying oak in a vacutherm kiln can be challenging.  I am glad that I dry primarily walnut, cherry, and maple too.  
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Just Right on December 31, 2018, 02:03:59 PM
BusySawyer,  I noticed the plywood on top of the on stack of slabs.  Are you running the bladder?  How did that load of slabs come out?  Fairly flat?  I just sent my deposit in today to beat the price increase.  Starting to get excited now.  JR
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: boonesyard on December 31, 2018, 08:41:20 PM
BusySawyer,  I noticed the plywood on top of the on stack of slabs.  Are you running the bladder?  How did that load of slabs come out?  Fairly flat?  I just sent my deposit in today to beat the price increase.  Starting to get excited now.  JR
I'm thinking about pulling the trigger on one. I didn't know there was a price increase coming, is it something that's confirmed? I suppose it would be a safe assumption due to the demand and the new year. 
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Busysawyer on December 31, 2018, 09:06:37 PM
Just right, no bladder. Plywood is to keep the drips from the ceiling from staining lumber. So far all thicker material is coming out flat for the most part. Some cherry slabs with a lot of sapwood cup a little.  The 4/4 on the top layers has moderate to severe cupping. I have been putting the thick stuff on top of the 4/4 the last couple runs and that has helped a lot.
Boonesyard, the idry is going up I think 9k Jan Jan 1st.  So I would guess too late to get in on the lower pricing.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: boonesyard on January 01, 2019, 01:29:21 AM
Just right, no bladder. Plywood is to keep the drips from the ceiling from staining lumber. So far all thicker material is coming out flat for the most part. Some cherry slabs with a lot of sapwood cup a little.  The 4/4 on the top layers has moderate to severe cupping. I have been putting the thick stuff on top of the 4/4 the last couple runs and that has helped a lot.
Boonesyard, the idry is going up I think 9k Jan Jan 1st.  So I would guess too late to get in on the lower pricing.
Wow, that's a big jump. May put that idea on hold.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: jfric on January 02, 2019, 05:40:24 PM
Just right, no bladder. Plywood is to keep the drips from the ceiling from staining lumber. So far all thicker material is coming out flat for the most part. Some cherry slabs with a lot of sapwood cup a little.  The 4/4 on the top layers has moderate to severe cupping. I have been putting the thick stuff on top of the 4/4 the last couple runs and that has helped a lot.
Boonesyard, the idry is going up I think 9k Jan Jan 1st.  So I would guess too late to get in on the lower pricing.
Wow, that's a big jump. May put that idea on hold.
My understanding is that the increase is largely due to the increasing price of steel. 
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Just Right on January 04, 2019, 12:43:44 PM
Thanks Busy.  So thick slabs on top are pretty stable then?  And of course the deeper in the stack the better they are?  How thick are you doing your slabs?  8/4 12/4?  I want to have a 8/4 finished product.  So just trying to figure what thickness to start with to end up with 2 inches after planing or router sled surfaced that only needs finish sanding. Have you thought of a weighted pallet to top off the stack?  Any input on that?  Thanks again.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Glenn1 on January 05, 2019, 07:38:59 AM
We use 2Ē ratchet straps every 3í to put some pressure on the top boards.  It seems to work well and does not take up any extra room.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Glenn1 on January 05, 2019, 09:09:42 PM
We opened the kiln today and the quartersawn sycamore was ready.  The boards are spectacular! They range from 6Ē to 15Ē wide.  These were some really wide logs.
We cut the boards at 1 1/4Ē thickness.  Going with the theory that the IDry can dry 1Ē per week, we thought that it would take 9 days to dry from green.  Sycamore initially has more than 100% moisture in the log so that will also affect the drying time.  This load took 13 day to get it to 8% Mc.  I am very pleased with the results.  
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/37307/Sycamore_in_Kiln.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1546822072)
 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/37307/QS_Sycamore2~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1546822070)
 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/37307/KIMG0732.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1546822070)
 
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: PA_Walnut on January 06, 2019, 08:47:40 AM
Why no other controls than a big "GO" button?  PCS vac kiln has a control that looks like a NASA command center. What are we missing here?

Calling @GeneWengert-WoodDoc (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=20498)  Calling @Den Socling (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=317) 
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Just Right on January 06, 2019, 10:01:12 PM
Looking good Glenn and Busy. .. . . so maybe a silly question,  if you are going to be putting sawed lumber in the kiln quickly . . . . do you still anchor seal?
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Glenn1 on January 07, 2019, 06:57:16 AM
Looking good Glenn and Busy. .. . . so maybe a silly question,  if you are going to be putting sawed lumber in the kiln quickly . . . . do you still anchor seal?
Yes I do.  I would rather be safe
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Just Right on January 07, 2019, 12:31:38 PM
Thanks Glenn.  I was just wondering with how the wood dries in this kiln did the anchor seal impede it any.  I did notice that you had your kiln on a gravel flood.  What do you have the kiln sitting on to level it?  JR
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Glenn1 on January 07, 2019, 06:18:41 PM
Thanks Glenn.  I was just wondering with how the wood dries in this kiln did the anchor seal impede it any.  I did notice that you had your kiln on a gravel flood.  What do you have the kiln sitting on to level it?  JR
The kiln is actually on crushed concrete.  We rented a 3 ton double roller system and packed it down with a little sprayed water.  Then we added 6x6 for the kiln to rest on.  We were able to shim it just barely to have the water run to the back right corner of the kiln.  I don't believe that the crushed concrete is going to move.
The anchor seal dissipates with heat so it is basically gone by the time that the wood is dry.  No mess, no residue.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: ellmoe on January 08, 2019, 06:48:32 AM
   Just received notice that my kiln is scheduled to be completed on Monday. This is three + weeks ahead of schedule . Now I have to hurry to make a home for it.  ;D
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Stephen1 on January 08, 2019, 09:23:39 AM
  Just received notice that my kiln is scheduled to be completed on Monday. This is three + weeks ahead of schedule . Now I have to hurry to make a home for it.  ;D
Thats great. Mine is scheduled for completion March 11. I am on vacation till March 8. I  will have its home all ready before I go. I am starting to paint my shop this week 
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: jfric on January 10, 2019, 10:04:49 AM
Exciting to hear of everyoneís results so far. Iím expecting delivery of mine on Monday. Iíll probably start milling some 8/4 pecan tomorrow for my first load. 
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: farmfromkansas on January 11, 2019, 06:19:20 PM
Watched the Canadianwoodworkers kiln video, and noticed they are using no stickers.  But the pics using this vacutherm IDry is using stickers.  Can someone explain?
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: canadianwoodworks on January 12, 2019, 09:02:10 AM
Watched the Canadianwoodworkers kiln video, and noticed they are using no stickers.  But the pics using this vacutherm IDry is using stickers.  Can someone explain?
I'm not an owner of an Idry but I have done my research, I do run a Vacuum kiln going on 2 years.
These are types of Vacuum kilns:
Discontinuous - Wood is stickered, heated with air. Then a vacuum is drawn the wood dries and cools, then the vacuum is released, the wood gets heated again with air, then repeat.
Hot Plate - Wood is NOT stickered with heating plates filled with hot water between each layer, a vacuum is drawn and is held until the wood is dry. The vacuum and heat is a constant, no cycling from no vacuum to vacuum. So this is faster and better quality then discontinuous.
High temp steam - I don't know much about this type.
RF - Wood is NOT stickered with a thin .050'' plate between each 12'' of lumber, this provides heat by high frequency. Think microwave, but not exactly the same. The electricity is not floating around in the chamber heating the wood, the electrical signal travels from one plate to the other in a direct path.
The Idry and Idry plus seem to be different then a discontinuous, it sounds like a vacuum is held the entire time, but leaving enough air in the chamber to heat the wood. This is why the wood needs to be stickered, because they are using air being blown through the stack to give the lumber the needed heat.
Once a vacuum is pulled, you can't heat the wood with air because there is no air left in the chamber. This is why hot plate / super heated steam / RF kilns exist. Once the wood starts drying, the energy used to convert liquid water into vapour leaves the wood in the vapour, so we need to continually add heat to the lumber. Most Vac Kilns pull such a strong vac that there is no air in the chamber to heat the wood.  Vacutherm has created a "new" type of vac kiln which pulls a "weaker" vacuum leaving enough air inside the chamber to give heat to the lumber, while drying under vacuum conditions. 

My interest is peaked!
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Glenn1 on January 12, 2019, 06:58:04 PM
Canadianwoodworks, your post seems to be right on the mark....well done
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Busysawyer on January 12, 2019, 09:20:18 PM
After a very pleasant and informative conversation I had with Mr. Parker I need to clarify a couple things. First of all I was dead wrong about a major feature of the idry.  We as end users do have control over some key functions of the kiln if we desire.  I made a huge assumption based on a lock icon on the setup screen. I saw the little padlock icon on the bottom left hand corner and assumed these key functions were locked . I was wrong.
You can slow down the drying by limiting vaccum and max temp. Both are adjustable by the end user. I believe the fan settings can be adjusted as well but I didnt clarify or try to change those yet. Mr.Parker said you could essentially use the kiln as what he would consider a pre drier for those species that need to be dried slowly. He reccomend partially air drying as a more efficient and economic option but said the idry could be used. Pushing start is a great way to go but knowing I can "play" with the settings is going to make this toy more fun to play with. Sorry to all for making an erroneous assumption and spreading misinformation. 
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Busysawyer on January 12, 2019, 09:23:47 PM
Here is a pic of the setup screen where you can input what temp and pressure you want. That lock in the bottom left corner is what led to my assumption of not being able to change these settings.
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/49432/20190112_130300.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1547346214)
 
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: briankingsbury on January 23, 2019, 10:33:27 AM
Here is a pic of the setup screen where you can input what temp and pressure you want. That lock in the bottom left corner is what led to my assumption of not being able to change these settings.
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/49432/20190112_130300.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1547346214)
 

The settings for Temperature and Vacuum are not locked, you can change then anytime. The lock is to setup remote access connection. This setup is usually done before shipping but if it ever needs to change it can be.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Stephen1 on January 23, 2019, 01:44:21 PM




The settings for Temperature and Vacuum are not locked, you can change then anytime. The lock is to setup remote access connection. This setup is usually done before shipping but if it ever needs to change it can be.

Is the remote access for IDRY, or is that for the owner?
Can we change anything from a remote location?
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: briankingsbury on January 23, 2019, 02:09:36 PM




The settings for Temperature and Vacuum are not locked, you can change then anytime. The lock is to setup remote access connection. This setup is usually done before shipping but if it ever needs to change it can be.

Is the remote access for IDRY, or is that for the owner?
Can we change anything from a remote location?
The remote access is for the owner and from any location using the internet you can see, run, and change anything.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Stephen1 on January 23, 2019, 02:12:54 PM
When we are drying pine, what temperature do we need to set the pitch? 
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: ellmoe on January 26, 2019, 06:30:29 AM
Received my kiln yesterday , three weeks early ! Unfortunately , I've had to change its future location , so I have to find time to do some construction. Hope to get this completed soon , we have a lot of thick wood to dry.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Glenn1 on January 26, 2019, 07:35:37 PM






The settings for Temperature and Vacuum are not locked, you can change then anytime. The lock is to setup remote access connection. This setup is usually done before shipping but if it ever needs to change it can be.



The remote access is for the owner and from any location using the internet you can see, run, and change anything.

Hello Brian,
Glad to see that you joined our little group.  Your assistance will definitely be appreciated.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: schwanee on January 30, 2019, 12:18:24 AM
Well this thread has certainly grown since itís beginning. Iím happy to say that we have ours on order!  You guys have been a huge help in preparation.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: schwanee on January 30, 2019, 04:47:20 PM
Has anyone tried drying cookies in the iDry yet? Or pecan?
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: jfric on January 30, 2019, 07:04:36 PM
Has anyone tried drying cookies in the iDry yet? Or pecan?
I put pecan cookies in on Monday, so Iíll have an answer for you in a couple weeks. 
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: WDH on January 30, 2019, 08:39:01 PM
I planed some pecan ( smiley_devil) today.  So far, only three flat boards in the first 150 bf :).  The chop saw and jointer are getting a workout.  
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Stephen1 on January 31, 2019, 12:48:23 PM
I see cookies going in, in the promo shots. I'd like to see them when they come out.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: PA_Walnut on February 02, 2019, 06:57:06 AM
I am curious as to why there's no interaction with iDry reps on here? I see that they are a sponsor, so I assume they know it's here. Anyone?  ???
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Stephen1 on February 02, 2019, 08:35:31 AM
I am wondering how much water is coming out of the kiln? wood water and or the cooling water for the vacuum pump? I am trying to decide if I need to break my floor so I can bring a drain over to the kiln.  
Can I just drain this unit outside? through a hole in the wall. 
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: GAB on February 02, 2019, 01:03:21 PM
@japarker4  (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=40197)
Earth to Jim - - Earth to Jim
Can you reply to replies 245 & 246?
Gerald
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: jfric on February 02, 2019, 05:53:47 PM
I believe briankingsbury, who responded to a couple questions about a week ago, works at idry.

You can run an aboveground pipe out through the wall. That is what I have done. The vacuum pump uses .75 gallons of water per minute while drawing the vacuum. It took the kiln about 20-25 minutes to draw the vacuum when I loaded it, and it does the same once about every 24 hours since the kiln releases the vacuum to run the drain cycle. The amount of wood water drained daily will depend on the load and how long it's been in. On the first day, this load drained wood water for about 8 1/2 minutes. There was a pretty good amount of water coming out that whole time, but not a tidal flow. My drain pipe is 2 1/2" and I ran the water supply line inside the drain pipe so I wouldn't have to drill two holes in the building. Keep in mind there are two separate drains on the unit, one for the vacuum and one for the wood water. They are about 2" apart and come out of the bottom left corner when you are standing at and facing the rear of the kiln.

I had zero problem getting answers from idry before I ordered my kiln and I've had the same experience since I received the unit about 2 weeks ago. If you have a pressing question I recommend calling them. Very nice people.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Glenn1 on February 03, 2019, 07:18:12 AM
I would also agree with jfric.  Brian at Vacutherm is the technical point man and has helped me when Ive had questions. If heís not available when I call, he gets back to me very quickly with a return call.  
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Stephen1 on February 03, 2019, 11:01:35 AM
I like to post questions here when I have lots of time for the answers. It helps others on the forum and keeps the forum alive.
I have had no customer service problems dealing with Jim or the staff at IDRY . They respond to all my questions. 
The other sponsors on here have great customer service also, I call when I have concerns that need an answer to sooner than later. 
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Just Right on February 03, 2019, 05:09:51 PM
Glenn I may do what you did with the crushed concrete.  Definately less money.  But my question if bout how Thick would concrete need to be.  And what are you and anyone else with the water hook up, and the water exhausted?  How much water comes out and could you just run it on top of the ground?  Thanks.  Have enjoyed the updates from everybody and am starting my shed/building to put this puppy in.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Peter Drouin on February 03, 2019, 08:43:01 PM
popcorn_smiley smiley_book2_page
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Glenn1 on February 04, 2019, 07:36:40 AM
The crushed concrete was 6Ē thick but compaction was a very important step. We used a 3 ton double roller to go back and forth. Then we added four 6 x6 for the kiln legs to rest on. This made it easier to shim the kiln.  Our barn is raised above the surrounding ground so we have the the pipe going thru the wall and running out towards our creek.  

When the wood is green, there is quite a bit of water running out of the kiln.  
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: woodworker9 on February 04, 2019, 01:06:05 PM
I, too, am watching this thread with great interest, as I'm giving serious consideration to buying one of these kilns.  I understand that any pressing questions can be answered with phone calls, but I use this forum as a means for learning from other peoples questions, as well, and not just mine.  I think it would be very beneficial if someone from Idry would monitor this thread and give the necessary answers.  There are great questions that are being asked, as well as important details included from the growing number of you that have already made your purchase.  Typically, I'm the type that doesn't spend my money until my research is complete, and I've learned most of what I need to in order to make an informed decision.  

I will continue to read this thread with the hope that participation in this discussion grows.  It's a very perfect way to get a lot of questions and answers compiled in one tidy place.  Not ever having owned a kiln, I don't even think of half of the questions that have already been asked here.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Just Right on February 07, 2019, 10:03:29 AM
Glenn,  I am pretty much flat around here so I don't want a mud hole so I will probably do a redneck septic system since it is just "gray" water.  I thank you for your input.  From what I am seeing what you and Busy are doing,  seems to me (other than oak) that in order to dry different species,  it is important to have the moisture content of each similar when putting them in.  Have you noticed better service of drying if you keep the charge all the same species?  Thanks
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Glenn1 on February 08, 2019, 09:03:21 PM
As long as the moisture content are similar, there is no problem in mixing species.  If you mix moisture content, the worse case scenario is that you will need to remove the dry wood and leave the others in the kiln to continue to dry.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: schwanee on February 09, 2019, 07:21:59 PM
Has anyone with this kiln set up the water supply with a tank and pump? Iíll be setting mine up in an area where I may not have a water supply and am working on options. The kiln only requires 0.75 GPM to cool off the vac pump.

Would love to hear if any of you guys have any good ideas!
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Crusarius on February 09, 2019, 09:36:40 PM
I would think setting up a cooling loop with a radiator and fan just like in a vehicle would work perfect.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Just Right on February 17, 2019, 12:56:17 PM
Thank you Glenn.  Got about a month ish left on getting mine and I am getting excited about it.   

A loop and radiator system sounds like a good idea.  Especially if water supply is limited.  My rough math is about 200 gallons a day that would be operating that vacuum pump.  Then about 5 to 10 gallons of water a day coming from the charge of lumber.  My question would be is the water coming from the wood clean enough not to contaminate your water supply,  and start leaving deposits of stuff internally in the kiln?
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Stephen1 on February 18, 2019, 08:49:31 AM
I understand that vacuum pump will run about 20-30 mins initially, so less that 30 gallons of water. I'm not sure how much more it runs to maintain the vacuum. It drops it vacuum once a day to allow waste water to drain.
I would think the waste water will be caustic of some sort. Every one talks about the inside of klns need to be indestructable from the acid wate moisture from the wood.
I am about 3 weeks out for my kiln. I am waiting on the CSA stcker, which will allow my electrician to hook it up. 
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: briankingsbury on February 18, 2019, 10:00:11 AM
Thank you Glenn.  Got about a month ish left on getting mine and I am getting excited about it.  

A loop and radiator system sounds like a good idea.  Especially if water supply is limited.  My rough math is about 200 gallons a day that would be operating that vacuum pump.  Then about 5 to 10 gallons of water a day coming from the charge of lumber.  My question would be is the water coming from the wood clean enough not to contaminate your water supply,  and start leaving deposits of stuff internally in the kiln?
We have estimated the pump to run around 2-3 hours each day so 200 gallons would be a good safe number and your 5-10 gallons of wood water is also a good estimation. Some steam that did not condense in the kiln would run through the pump but we don't have a good number on that yet. If anyone else has some thoughts let us know. 
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: old3dogg on February 19, 2019, 06:00:49 AM
The water removed from wood is very acidic. Very low pH. It would be corrosive to any metal.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: jfric on February 22, 2019, 09:18:17 AM
I donít think my kiln is using anywhere near 200 gallons a day. I donít think itís even running 60 gallons a day. 
I have been trying to use the amount of wood water coming out of the drain as a way if understand how the drying is progressing. I donít have the time to monitor it everyday but I try to check it once or twice a week. I started a new load on Monday and on Wednesday it realease about 18 gallons of wood water (didnít have time to check the release for Tuesday). On the previous load, on the second to the last day only about a gallon came out. 
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: nativewolf on March 11, 2019, 09:32:00 AM
So how are all you guys doing?
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Stephen1 on March 11, 2019, 10:56:38 AM
I am hoping to pick my unit up early next week. I have the electrical installed, the plumbing is ready, the 1st 2 loads of wood have been brought in from the snow and ice to thaw. 
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: tule peak timber on March 13, 2019, 09:35:08 PM
Will Jim have a display at AWFS in Las Vegas this summer ?
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: tule peak timber on March 14, 2019, 09:07:01 PM
Are there any comments from folks that did buy  this kiln? I would love to hear more about this kiln. I talked to Jim today,,,, knowledgeable  person. Rob
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Stephen1 on March 15, 2019, 06:59:54 AM
I have been looking all over trying to hear more.
Most of what I hear is it is not as fast as 1" in 1 week, maybe 8-9 days.
Like everything patience. The wood is coming out looking good. 
One gentleman described the process as a speeded up air drying process.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: tule peak timber on March 15, 2019, 09:42:42 AM
Thanks. If I hear more on someones experience I will post it.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Busysawyer on March 16, 2019, 10:24:48 PM
I haven't dried a whole lot of green material yet. What I've found so far. 4/4, 5/4 and 6/6 walnut right of the mill is pretty close to the week per inch. It took 13 days for me to go right off the mill with 1 5/8 thick walnut down to 6-7%. . Here is my findings for thicker material. Mixed load of 2in, 2 3/8 and 3 1/2 thick walnut green. I left the 2 and 2 3/8 in for 24 days. The 3 1/2 is still in. I think the extra moisture coming from the thicker material slowed down the process for the thinner material.  
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: tule peak timber on March 17, 2019, 08:02:33 AM
Busy, Amount of checking/ degrade overall? Thanks for the feedback.  Rob
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Just Right on March 18, 2019, 10:11:54 PM
Got an email saying my kiln will be ready in about a week.  Making plans of a road trip to go get it.  Can't wait to get my hands on it and get that thing online!!
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Stephen1 on March 18, 2019, 11:04:24 PM
I made it to Barre VT 
I will be over to IDRY to pick up my kiln in the morning. 
If all goes well I will be home Tuesday evening and setting the kiln in place of Wed morning. 
Pictures to follow. 
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Just Right on March 19, 2019, 11:19:17 AM
Glad you made it Stephen.  Safe travels home.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Stephen1 on March 20, 2019, 12:31:29 AM
Home safe! Had a nice visit with the boys from IDRY, Jim, Rick, and Brian. Busy place as they transition to a new shop and office.
I had to reposition the kiln on the trailer after I left. It had a little fish tail to it about 50. I pulled off the interstate and pulled it forward on the trailer. Itís nice having the ratchet chain binders.
The crane comes in the morning to offload and maneuver the kiln into the shop.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Stephen1 on March 21, 2019, 09:09:41 PM
The Kiln landed. I hooked up the electric yesterday  and finished up the plumbing hook up today.
 loaded the kiln with 2" EWP slabs on the bottom.   
<br live edge 4/4 Poplar and Maple for charcutie boards. I threw is some Cherry and Birch ovals, some walnut small pieces. I want to see how the ovals do in the kiln.  My thoughts are to change out the 4/4 on the top with different stck next week . Then reload with more 4/4 and back in the dry the EWP
All different moisture from 19% for the 4/4 to %26 for the pine. >(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13648/1sr_kiln_load2.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1553216185)
 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13648/1stkiln_load2.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1553216151)
 
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: tule peak timber on March 21, 2019, 09:25:16 PM
Stephen 1, Thanks for taking the time to document what you are doing, it is appreciated.  Rob
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Just Right on March 24, 2019, 03:29:39 PM
Looking good Stephen.  lm interested in knowing how your ovals did too.  We will be leaving Tues to pick mine up on Fri.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Stephen1 on March 26, 2019, 08:15:17 AM
Have a great road trip!
I had a small water problem at the kiln with a pin hole leak in the 3/8 water supply line. I called and a new line is on the way. Brian's comment was that "we paid extra to get a braided high pressure line" 
The kiln runs at 130-140 F as it cycles thru the heat and the fan. 
I hope to be there tonight when it drops the vacuum. I want to pull out the load and see what is and what is not dry. 
I also have my 1st customer 8)coming on Thursday with a small load of fresh sawn maple
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: flatrock58 on March 26, 2019, 09:50:23 PM
Been keeping up with this post.  It has been mentioned that oak is harder to dry with this kiln than other woods.  Has anyone dried red or white oak yet.  If so how long did it take?  Thanks
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: NC Daniel on March 27, 2019, 11:33:30 AM
I think I saw a post on their website where someone dried a load of 5/4 White Oak, 1 month air dried then took 13 days in the kiln 
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Stephen1 on March 28, 2019, 11:37:51 AM
Been keeping up with this post.  It has been mentioned that oak is harder to dry with this kiln than other woods.  Has anyone dried red or white oak yet.  If so how long did it take?  Thanks
I am opened the kiln on Teusday night. The temp of the kiln was at 140F. I pulled some cookies out to test. ( some were still solid and some were checked) I also put in some air dried Walnut pieces,  to fill up the space in the kiln. A full load is better or you need to baffle a partial load. 
They seemed very dry and they were at 8%. I am also trying to learn the moisture meter. 
I am opening the kiln this afternoon as I have my 1st customer coming with a small load of maple. I plan to pull the maple and poplar and cookies out. I will leave the pine slabs. I will update for everyone.
I will load more of my air dried Walnut-Elm. I will load the customers maple and fill the space with more cookies and ovals.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Stephen1 on April 02, 2019, 12:57:02 PM
Well here is an update. I fixed the water leak, replaced the line. I pulled out the load on Friday morning. I left the kiln shut down from Thursday night. The 4/4 poplar and maple were dry, also the birch and cherry cookies, all down to 6-8%
The EWP was mixed %. The 16Ē x2Ē pieces  were down to 8.8%. I pulled them out of the kiln.
The bigger 24Ē were mixed, some probe locations were8% some 12% , some 18% I only used the hand held probe.
I loaded the kiln with customers 300 bd ft of 7/4 maple on the bottom filled by new EWP 24Ē x2Ē then the almost dried EWP . On top of all that I placed air dried  coffee table live edge walnut and elm. To fill the empty spaces I loaded about 100 birch and cherry cookies/ovals. A real mixed load.
I would like to put other wood in but winter will not quite up here and a lot of my wood is still buried in the snow and ice. What isnít buried my little bobcat canít lift with the added weight of the snow and ice on top.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Just Right on April 08, 2019, 08:53:57 AM
 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/49898/06AB72EA6768000066700002-attachment-1-0329191319.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1554727853)
 

Got back with the kiln after 2 flats and a sick Ford.  Injection pump is going.  But all that behind us now.  Going to start on the concrete pad this morning.  Hoping to pour Wed or so.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Southside on April 08, 2019, 09:09:14 AM
Is the pump throwing metal into the tires and causing them to go flat or something?   :D
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Stephen1 on April 08, 2019, 09:16:07 AM

Got back with the kiln after 2 flats and a sick Ford.  Injection pump is going.  But all that behind us now.  Going to start on the concrete pad this morning.  Hoping to pour Wed or so.
I'm glad your home safe. nothing like an adventure to get started with. How many miles was your road trip, mine was a total of 1000 miles there and back, since my truck is american I am still in miles, I never switched it over to Kilometers
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: briankingsbury on April 08, 2019, 11:56:22 AM
We just tested a water feed pump if anyone wants to do a recirculated system.

https://www.freshwatersystems.com/products/aquatec-5853-gb12-v81d-variable-speed-pump-0-1-1-0-gpm-40-psi
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Just Right on April 08, 2019, 09:39:06 PM
LOL Southside you made me laugh.  I wish it was a coordinated group effort to do me in.  One flat on trailer and one on the truck.  Just luck of the draw on the truck.  But the trailer . . . . . it is evil 8 new tires with less than 6000 miles on them.  And I have had to replace 4 already.  Axles must be tweaked.  And the injector pump is just time for a new one.

Stephen,  it was about 2500 miles round trip.  Took a week to do it,  but me and lil Wiffie made a good road trip out of it.  Figured I'd prepay her before she figures out that she will be helping me load and unload that kiln!
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Just Right on April 08, 2019, 09:41:28 PM
And Brian,  Now that I know the vacuum pump and the drain from the inside of the kiln are two different things that is a good idea.  Problem is I just finished the ditch to bury my water supply.  LMAO
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Southside on April 09, 2019, 12:18:23 AM
Just Right, I got sick of crappy trailer service tires and went to 14 ply G's in 16", keep them at 100 PSI and never had a flat again. 
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: YellowHammer on April 09, 2019, 06:37:56 AM
Me too, 100%, take off the Eís and roll with the Gís. I get mine at the local farmers COOP.   
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Just Right on April 09, 2019, 10:35:01 AM
Thanks for that advice.  I don't like that trailer anyways.  It is a tag along.  I love the goose necks.  
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/49898/0AAC406D4FC400009B400004-attachment-1-0408191900.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1554820324)
 

Had a decent day yesterday getting the slab and underground utilities ready.  Worked till dark getting this 100 ft ditch dug.  Then it stormed all nite and I am sure flooded it.  Good thing I took the time to make sure it could flood all my ditch and not just a part of it!  LMAO.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Stephen1 on April 09, 2019, 12:19:33 PM
My only problem, is the 100psi and I find my tires are going bald in the Center as I run empty half the time. How do you guys get around that or is it the nature of the beast? 
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Southside on April 09, 2019, 12:22:08 PM
I have not had that problem with my G's, they are hard as rocks so not much difference loaded or unloaded. It is fun to watch the tire guy try to put them on the rim sometimes.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: YellowHammer on April 10, 2019, 10:07:09 AM
My biggest problem is that people always seem to want to pull out in front of me and I have to end up standing on the brakes, occasionally smoking the tires.  Unfortunately, standing on my horn and giving them what for doesnít do anything about the new flat spots.  
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Stephen1 on April 10, 2019, 08:50:28 PM
YH Flat spot are the norm when its empty especially
I asked Brian at IDRY about sterizlizing or Heat Treating wood in the kiln. He mentions remote units so I do not have to drill a hole in the the kiln. 
Anybody using one of these units ?
who does HT and how do I find out more info?
Stephen
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: PA_Walnut on April 12, 2019, 05:51:40 AM
Unfortunately, standing on my horn and giving them what for doesnít do anything about the new flat spots.  


I had a neighbor complaining about the same thing until one day he came home and was super-excited to tell me that he had someone pull out and try to block him in a cattle-chute. Said, I had enough and mashed'er to the floor (big F350 beast). Explained, "I docked with him and pushed him down the highway about 100 yards or so...when the cops came, said I told them that idiot swerved in front of me and when I stabbed for the brakes, I accidentally hit the throttle and it stuck". Said the cop kinda smirked and continued on with paperwork. I'm assuming that they no longer attempt lane-blocking. :o I have a couple stories of my own, which include going "agricultural". :D
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Just Right on April 13, 2019, 09:04:56 AM
PA I love your style!  I so wanted to do that on several occasions!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: PA_Walnut on April 17, 2019, 07:28:20 AM
PA I love your style!  I so wanted to do that on several occasions!!!!!!!!!


It will set your soul free! ;D:D
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: rjwoelk on April 21, 2019, 10:49:54 PM
Can you dry up to 6x6x8ft 
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Stephen1 on April 21, 2019, 11:50:54 PM
I would dry it. I would like to see how long it takes. 
Can you dry up to 6x6x8ft


Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: rjwoelk on April 21, 2019, 11:55:58 PM
According to DH kilns it falls into the same category as pine.
So what time frame would it take to dry, and at what cost.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: K-Guy on April 22, 2019, 08:07:32 AM
Hi
For timbers that thick, the drying is very slow. It would take months in the kiln. It would better to air dry it down to about 20% and then put it in the kiln for finishing and sterilization. 
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Stephen1 on April 29, 2019, 08:32:42 PM
Syrup season is over and cleaned up.I  am going to move lumber to my klin from the bush. I will bring some timbers down and put them in when I have room, and see how long they take. 
I am looking at metal baskets to fill with firewood. i think there is a market for kiln dried firewood.
Who uses thier kilns for firewood?
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Stephen1 on May 03, 2019, 06:38:18 AM
I had a large amount of ants and dirt in the last load of 34" walnut slabs, so much so, tha the drain hole in the rear of kiln became clogged. I opened the kiln after 9 days to check the load and a huge amount of water was draining out the front door, and out of the kiln. Since then I have re-plumbed the drain on the kiln with a pan and a pump.
In the mean time when I pulled out the load after a total of 12 days I found a small amount of a white fungi on the walnut around 1 of the cavities that had dirt in it. I have brushed it off and vacuumed it off but a small amount remains. 
I'd like to wipe it off with some bleach but I am afraid the bleach will stain the walnut.
Any ideas?
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Just Right on May 04, 2019, 07:50:13 PM
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/49898/04AD94E186E6000079500004-attachment-1-0425191720~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1557013686)

The day of off loading and setting.  Got it fired up this week and a load has been in there for 4 days now.  At full temp around 160 ish.  Can't wait to see the progress.

Stephen,  maybe some of that house wash stuff for the fungus among your walnut?
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Stephen1 on May 05, 2019, 08:39:03 AM

Stephen,  maybe some of that house wash stuff for the fungus among your walnut?

I'll give that a try. 
I will also see if extra strength vinegar will work
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Just Right on May 05, 2019, 10:04:28 AM
Let me know how that turns out.  Going to open my kiln today to check progress.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: E-Tex on May 24, 2019, 08:16:56 AM
i haven't read this post in a while and this may have been covered already....

do the smaller units have the Optional Bladder Press available?
I thought at one time I saw that as an option on the initial unit once they started advertising the unit.  Now I just see it as an option on their largest unit.

Also, for those of you have some i-dry experience so far, do you think the Bladder Press would be a good, or needed, option?  

Thanks
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Glenn1 on May 24, 2019, 09:04:50 PM
Iíve had the IDry since December and I donít think that the bladder will work with stickers.  The bladder puts tremendous pressure on the boards and Iíd be concerned that the stickers would leave indentations into the boards. Especially wood that is lower on the Janka Hardwood scale.  Iím sure that Jim at  Vacutherm will have much more information on the use of bladders with an IDry.  
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Stephen1 on May 28, 2019, 09:53:24 AM
The extra strong Vinegar worked great. cleaned off the fungi and it has not returned.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Just Right on June 01, 2019, 10:34:08 AM
That sounds great Stephen.  I have some pecan in the kiln now,  so far hardly any movement.  Should be ready in a day or two and I will post pics.  It was green when it went in.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: WDH on June 01, 2019, 08:02:53 PM
I have some pecan in the kiln now
What??  smiley_devil smiley_devil.
I am drying some 16/4 now.  I hope yours turns out nice.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Andries on June 02, 2019, 01:26:14 PM
@WDH (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=4370): 16/4 pecan?
How long does it stay in the kiln before you consider signing a landlord and tenants agreement with it?  ;)
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: WDH on June 02, 2019, 07:30:48 PM
It has been air drying for 16 months.  Been in the kiln 2 weeks. As long as I can get it down to about 15%, I will be good with it.  Going over a fireplace as a mantle.  If I am not careful, though, it might move in with me and become a squatter.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: rjwoelk on June 02, 2019, 09:50:47 PM
Have not heard much from the IDRY guys. How are things going?
Tell us your results.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: samandothers on June 03, 2019, 09:59:51 AM
 If I am not careful, though, it might move in with me and become a squatter.


:o What!?! letting the  smiley_devil smiley_devil move in!?!  :o
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Stephen1 on June 04, 2019, 07:19:43 PM
The kiln is doing alright. I am trying to figure the drying costs for the thick slabs. I have people that want to dry green 12/4 cherry and think I should do it for $1.50 a bd ft.
I have dried some green walnut slabs 8/4- 12/4 and they take around 3 weeks .they were sawn last fall. So frozen all winter, not much drying happens in the north for 6 months.
4/4 -5/4 dries as fast as they predicted.
I would like to hear what other guys are charging.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: rjwoelk on June 04, 2019, 08:11:39 PM
I was quoted 1.75 bf per week.
8/4  would be 4.50 if it takes 3 weeks.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: tule peak timber on June 04, 2019, 08:15:53 PM
Respectfully ....yikes !
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: rjwoelk on June 04, 2019, 08:55:55 PM
That was my reaction also.
1500 bf  per load .
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Tom the Sawyer on June 04, 2019, 09:26:38 PM
You might consider putting sub-meters on your kiln supply lines.  If you know the quantities (cost) of electricity, water, etc., it will be easier to set prices and not run at a deficit.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: YellowHammer on June 06, 2019, 10:17:21 PM
Power consumption is listed as 6kWh average.  With an average published 2018 electrical cost in Alabama of approximately .1259 $/kWh, that comes to 6000/1000*24*.1259= $18.13 per day or $543 per month or $6,516 per year in electricity costs.

It also costs $1,500 for a 2 year service contract.  
I have talked to one user a couple months ago who said my original calculations were pretty close, based on the manufacturers advertised numbers, at least in his case.  
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Glenn1 on June 07, 2019, 09:34:39 PM
I charge $1.00 a bf for each 10 day period. The second 10 day period is prorated.  Also, unless the boards/slabs are under 25% MC, I wonít dry them.  
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Stephen1 on June 08, 2019, 08:37:46 AM
I charge $1.00 a bf for each 10 day period. The second 10 day period is prorated.  Also, unless the boards/slabs are under 25% MC, I wonít dry them.  


I like that formula, $1.30 up here. I like the 10 day cycle time. Even the 4/4 lumber takes a little over the 7 days advertised time



Glen are you taking the lumber green? 
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: tule peak timber on June 08, 2019, 09:21:28 AM
I charge $1.00 a bf for each 10 day period. The second 10 day period is prorated.  Also, unless the boards/slabs are under 25% MC, I wonít dry them.  
Very interesting..............
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Just Right on June 10, 2019, 11:20:43 AM
WDH  The pecan came out great.  10/4 was sawn a day before I put it in the kiln.  Took about 16 days.  Was about halfway in the stack.  No checking, cupping, and stayed straight.
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/49898/01B092D7E066000003700002-attachment-1-0602191039.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1560178895)
 

A guy from FL brought me another load when he picked up the first load.

I am still getting a handle on pricing.  Mostly 1.00 a BF,  thicker stuff 1.50 a BF.

Glenn . . . I get your point with the 25% . . . .I do think some wood species need SOME air drying before putting it in the IDRY. . . . . Cherry because it is Cherry,  Walnut to bring the colors out etc.  But I feel getting it all the way down to 25%,  is like leaving some money on the table,  and not getting the full advantage of this machine.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Stephen1 on July 16, 2019, 10:22:28 PM
EWP 11" x 11" 12' long beam in the kln. The first go around I left it in 6 days and got worried I would dry it to much. I tested it at 145F and the delmhorst said 18-20% depending on where i poked it. I let it sit for a 10 days in the shop and reinstlled it in the kiln. I left it in for 7 days and emptied the kiln. I let the beam sit for 24 hrs and poked it again, this time I am getting in th 10-12% range.
Is this acceptable for a beam of this size?
I read that EWP does not need to go down much below 10% as it changes the properties of the wood.
This beam will be planed to 10"x10" and then installed as a fireplace mantle with a matte finnish
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Southside on July 16, 2019, 11:53:25 PM
In my experience with EWP you don't want it below 10 pct MC or it will have issues with planing it.  I have made a fair bit of ship-lap and V-match with the stuff, no beams, but I don't think the knife will care one way or the other how thick the overall product is.  
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Stephen1 on July 17, 2019, 12:02:12 AM
That is what I thought. What is your target for the EWP  as I do a lot of it, beams and planks. 10-12 PCT ?
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: WDH on July 17, 2019, 06:58:21 AM
JR,

That is impressive.  smiley_devil ;D.  
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: NC Daniel on July 18, 2019, 02:51:55 PM
Power consumption is listed as 6kWh average.  With an average published 2018 electrical cost in Alabama of approximately .1259 $/kWh, that comes to 6000/1000*24*.1259= $18.13 per day or $543 per month or $6,516 per year in electricity costs.

It also costs $1,500 for a 2 year service contract.  
I have talked to one user a couple months ago who said my original calculations were pretty close, based on the manufacturers advertised numbers, at least in his case.  
I figure my cost as $25 a day capital costs (loan, interest, insurance) + $20 a day operating costs (electric etc) + labor.
the operating cost may be a buck or two less but I think its best to estimate on the high side, plus $20 is a nice round number.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: scsmith42 on July 19, 2019, 06:02:23 PM
Power consumption is listed as 6kWh average.  With an average published 2018 electrical cost in Alabama of approximately .1259 $/kWh, that comes to 6000/1000*24*.1259= $18.13 per day or $543 per month or $6,516 per year in electricity costs.

It also costs $1,500 for a 2 year service contract.  
I have talked to one user a couple months ago who said my original calculations were pretty close, based on the manufacturers advertised numbers, at least in his case.  
I figure my cost as $25 a day capital costs (loan, interest, insurance) + $20 a day operating costs (electric etc) + labor.
the operating cost may be a buck or two less but I think its best to estimate on the high side, plus $20 is a nice round number.
At $543 per month just for electricity, youíre shorting yourself at $20.00 per day for Opex.  If you cycle the kiln twice per month, youíre only allocating $57.00 for labor to load and unload two times (30 days x 20/day = $600, less $543 energy costs = $57.00)
Also, what about depreciation, ROI and profit?
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Just Right on July 19, 2019, 08:40:45 PM
WDH,

After hearing your opinion and love for Pecan,  I have to admitttttttttt. . . . .I was a bit on the skeptical side taking in that pecan.  Have since, done another 1/4 load of pecan with the same results.  Very little movement and almost no cupping at all.  Bring me that Sycamore ya'll sawed at the project and it will be awesome.  Here is a pic that a customer of mine did from a Sycamore I quarter sawed and dried and he did the rest.  This is before the epoxy coat.  Table measures 40 wide and 10 foot long.
   
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/49898/0CB4169BE2CA00008F400003-attachment-1-IMG952486.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1563583004)
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: WDH on July 20, 2019, 06:23:31 AM
Oh my goodness!  That table is unreal.  Simply beautiful and one of a kind.  JR, too late on the sycamore 4/4.  Put it in the kiln last week, sterilized it Thursday-Friday, and ready to come out of the kiln when I have time to unload.  The 9/4 is still air drying.


(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14370/IMG_2915.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1563617975)
 The lumber looks like it has some bow in it, but it does not.  Just a distortion in the pic.  It is all nice and flat.  It air dried three and a half months before going into the kiln.  With the iDry it could have been ready a week after the project. 

What is the average size load that you can fit into the iDry?
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Southside on July 20, 2019, 07:19:05 AM
That is what I thought. What is your target for the EWP  as I do a lot of it, beams and planks. 10-12 PCT ?
I aim for 12, if I end at 10 pct I don't get upset, if I see 9 then my stomach starts to get uneasy and I make sure the knives are dangerous sharp on the moulder. 
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: NC Daniel on July 20, 2019, 10:37:52 AM
Power consumption is listed as 6kWh average.  With an average published 2018 electrical cost in Alabama of approximately .1259 $/kWh, that comes to 6000/1000*24*.1259= $18.13 per day or $543 per month or $6,516 per year in electricity costs.

It also costs $1,500 for a 2 year service contract.  
I have talked to one user a couple months ago who said my original calculations were pretty close, based on the manufacturers advertised numbers, at least in his case.  
I figure my cost as $25 a day capital costs (loan, interest, insurance) + $20 a day operating costs (electric etc) + labor.
the operating cost may be a buck or two less but I think its best to estimate on the high side, plus $20 is a nice round number.
At $543 per month just for electricity, youíre shorting yourself at $20.00 per day for Opex.  If you cycle the kiln twice per month, youíre only allocating $57.00 for labor to load and unload two times (30 days x 20/day = $600, less $543 energy costs = $57.00)
Also, what about depreciation, ROI and profit?
The $20 figure does not include labor. Just water and electric, water is well under a dollar a day. 
If you did two 4/4 1200 bdft ten day cycles in a month and charged $1 bdft:
2*1200 - 30*25 - 20*20 - labor = 1250 - labor. Should be room for profit at $1 bdft for 4/4 but it depends on how highly you value your time.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: NC Daniel on July 20, 2019, 11:01:43 AM
Oh my goodness!  That table is unreal.  Simply beautiful and one of a kind.  JR, too late on the sycamore 4/4.  Put it in the kiln last week, sterilized it Thursday-Friday, and ready to come out of the kiln when I have time to unload.  The 9/4 is still air drying.


(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14370/IMG_2915.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1563617975)
 The lumber looks like it has some bow in it, but it does not.  Just a distortion in the pic.  It is all nice and flat.  It air dried three and a half months before going into the kiln.  With the iDry it could have been ready a week after the project.  

What is the average size load that you can fit into the iDry?
The lumber stack for my model can be 13' L x 48" W x 55" T. So if you loaded had 1 1/8" lumber and 3/4 stickers you could get 29 rows of lumber at 52 bdft a row in a perfect world, that comes to 1508 bdft. My average 4/4 load is more like 1200 bdft. The lower bdft is from not every board being 13' long, having some live edge pieces where you can't put boards perfectly side by side, and I prefer to load with a forklift on pallets to cut down on labor (similar to your pic above actually). The pallets cost a couple of rows of lumber unfortunately. My current forklift can not lift a full of green for the kiln so I have to use two pallets unfortunately.
The bdft per load increases with thicker lumber since the lumber to sticker ratio is better.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: C_Koon on July 20, 2019, 12:02:10 PM
Ok.  Iíve been saying Im gonna start posting and quit stalking yall so here we go.  
   I got my idry about 6 weeks ago.  Mostly been drying walnut and oak thatís been air drying for 4-16 months. So far so good. 
 The last load to go in the kiln was some 4/4 pecan for a customer. Iím charging 15 cents per bf per day. What are your thoughts on the pricing.  Is it fair to both me and the customer?

   Also just want to say thanks for all the knowledge and wisdom on here.  Really good stuff!
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Just Right on July 20, 2019, 02:10:03 PM
WDH . . . NC Daniel nailed it.  That is exactly what I am seeing.  If your tired of waiting on the 9/4 it won't take long to throw it in and finish it up for you.  Plus you need to come visit anyway.

C Koon I like the price per foot per day math too.  I am just trying to settle on .10 and .15. . .. . seems to me that telling a customer .15 a foot per day is A LOT less sticker shock than 1.50 a board foot.  Some of the other considerations are type of wood and how long has it been air drying.  So 3 inch slabs that are at 12 percent and basically only need a good heat treatment won't cost a customer a nice lil chunk,  When they only need a couple of days.  There is sure a lot to learn and figure out for sure.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: C_Koon on July 20, 2019, 10:13:22 PM
I just canít see charging a flat bf price. Ex.  Green 4/4 white oak vs 4/4 air dried walnut thatís 20% moisture. Very different drying times. 
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: busenitzcww on July 20, 2019, 10:26:08 PM

The lumber stack for my model can be 13' L x 48" W x 55" T. So if you loaded had 1 1/8" lumber and 3/4 stickers you could get 29 rows of lumber at 52 bdft a row in a perfect world, that comes to 1508 bdft. My average 4/4 load is more like 1200 bdft. The lower bdft is from not every board being 13' long, having some live edge pieces where you can't put boards perfectly side by side, and I prefer to load with a forklift on pallets to cut down on labor (similar to your pic above actually). The pallets cost a couple of rows of lumber unfortunately. My current forklift can not lift a full of green for the kiln so I have to use two pallets unfortunately.
The bdft per load increases with thicker lumber since the lumber to sticker ratio is better.
So they advertise it at 2000 bf capacity... is that the perfect load of 12/4 ?
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Just Right on July 20, 2019, 10:35:54 PM
I don't know about a perfect load.  I rarely do 13 ft board/boards.  I have done several loads of big slabs and they just take up space.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Brad_bb on July 21, 2019, 10:09:52 AM
That's exactly what I found by calculation.  If I assumed 12ft long 42" 8/4 slabs and 3/4 stickers, I get 1680 BF.  If I assume 8' plus 4' long 5/4 boards with 3/4 stickers, I get 1440 BF(perfectly packed 48" wide layers).  You have to figure realistic numbers into your payback calculation.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: busenitzcww on July 21, 2019, 02:21:36 PM
That's exactly what I found by calculation.  If I assumed 12ft long 42" 8/4 slabs and 3/4 stickers, I get 840 BF.  If I assume 8' plus 4' long 5/4 boards with 3/4 stickers, I get 1440 BF(perfectly packed 48" wide layers).  You have to figure realistic numbers into your payback calculation.
Shouldnít your bf rate go up with thicker stock? Lumber to sticker ratio should go down not? Or am I thinking backwards?
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Brad_bb on July 21, 2019, 02:36:50 PM
Theoretically, but logs you slab are not necessarily consistent.  You Can't get 48" wide slabs consistently.  Say your slabbing a 38" log.  Your top and bottom slabs may only be 24" or less? while your center slabs will be 38.  I was very optimistic/liberal by assuming that all slabs were 42".  I've only had 2 logs that were 48 at the widest point(where the crotch starts to flare).  36" is not unusual.  So you won't be making a solid stack with live edge.  If you have 8/4 boards to fill some of it in, great, but it still won't be tightly packed due to live edges.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: busenitzcww on July 21, 2019, 04:36:09 PM
Theoretically, but logs you slab are not necessarily consistent.  You Can't get 48" wide slabs consistently.  Say your slabbing a 38" log.  Your top and bottom slabs may only be 24" or less? while your center slabs will be 38.  I was very optimistic/liberal by assuming that all slabs were 42".  I've only had 2 logs that were 48 at the widest point(where the crotch starts to flare).  36" is not unusual.  So you won't be making a solid stack with live edge.  If you have 8/4 boards to fill some of it in, great, but it still won't be tightly packed due to live edges.
Oh gotcha!
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: NC Daniel on July 22, 2019, 10:38:15 AM
@Brad_bb (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=6191) For 12'L x 42"W x 8/4 with 3/4 stickers I get 1680 BF, one of us is off by a factor of 2. 

A perfect 12/4 load comes to 2184 BF, if my math is right.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Brad_bb on July 22, 2019, 02:56:37 PM
@Brad_bb (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=6191) For 12'L x 42"W x 8/4 with 3/4 stickers I get 1680 BF, one of us is off by a factor of 2.

A perfect 12/4 load comes to 2184 BF, if my math is right.
You are correct, I forgot to multiply by 2 for the thickness.  Still, it's only 1680, just a bit better than a 5/4 load.  And that 1680 assumes an average of 42" slabs, which is a liberal assumption in my opinion.  Reality would probably be lower.  And have 8/4 boards to fill it out, will not always be possible.  My whole point is to do your own math for payback to determine if it's worth it for you.
Title: Re: Vacutherm iDry input
Post by: Stephen1 on July 25, 2019, 07:26:57 AM

I am drying 3 loads of 4/4 pine for my son in law right now and it was dry in 3 days. it is 800 bd ft of 4/4 per load with 4 large 3" x 32" 13' sugar maple slabs on top also. I just keep lifting the maple off and replacing. I can switch it out in 15 minutes.