The Forestry Forum

General Forestry => Drying and Processing => Topic started by: jimbarry on December 03, 2018, 08:10:18 PM

Title: my L200 kiln is almost ready
Post by: jimbarry on December 03, 2018, 08:10:18 PM
Figured it time to show up what's been going on here. There's one last thing to do for the kiln bldg, install a winch to raise and lower the loading door. Pics here are where I'm at currently.

(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20037/20181105-kildbldg-6-jim.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1543885067)
 


(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20037/20181105-kildbldg-1-jim.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1543885220)
 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20037/20181104-kilnbldg-flooring-jim.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1543885306)
Title: Re: my kiln is almost ready
Post by: Tree Dan on December 04, 2018, 02:07:55 PM
Looking mighty fine. 8)
Looks like spray foam...How thick is it?
Lets see the outside too.
Title: Re: my kiln is almost ready
Post by: Glenn1 on December 08, 2018, 09:14:56 PM
Your kiln is quite impressive.  Looking forward to hear how the drying goes for you.
Title: Re: my kiln is almost ready
Post by: jimbarry on December 09, 2018, 06:40:16 AM
Rough 2x4 spruce construction. 2x6 PT floor joists sitting on 6x6 PT timber. Exterior is B&B poplar. 
Foam is full 4" thick and enough to cover the studs.

Loading door (opens like a drawbridge) is 2x4's, 12" oc. 

(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20037/20180925-kilnbldg-sidedoor-4-jim.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1544354212)
 

The springs I thought for sure will pick up the weight. It helps but I will still need a winch to raise and lower the door.


(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20037/20181006-kilnbldg-hinge-installation-4.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1544354416)
 

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(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20037/20181006-kilnbldg-hinge-installation-2.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1544354416)
 



(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20037/20181025-kilnbldg-6-WilliamMacIntosh.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1544355578)
 

Title: Re: my kiln is almost ready
Post by: WLC on December 09, 2018, 02:09:12 PM
NICE!!!  How do you intend to load lumber in it?  I assume that you will be loading one stick at a time?  I've been trying to reinvent the wheel (on paper and in my mind) on a door for one I hope to build this spring.  I like the idea of the drawbridge.
Title: Re: my kiln is almost ready
Post by: jimbarry on December 10, 2018, 11:47:35 AM
 The loading bay door when opened (down position) will become a platform. Carts rolling on angle iron will be loaded with crates of lumber using the skid steer.  IF I'm drying firewood, pallets will be loaded the same way.
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20037/20171017-sawmilling-skidsteer-poplar-boards.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1544460283)
 


(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20037/20181119-firewood-loading-1.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1544460395)
 
Title: Re: my kiln is almost ready
Post by: WLC on December 10, 2018, 06:37:35 PM
Definitely going to be following your build.  Really interested in seeing the door used as the loading bay like you have described.  
Title: Re: stacking, how high is too high?
Post by: jimbarry on December 16, 2018, 03:58:15 PM
I finished the loading door and installed the rails today, then started on building the carts. I come to realize that my future plan of double stacking crates of wood may not come about. I'm 6feet tall and can just walk under the overhead fan units. So I had figured that 36" high crates were plenty of room for air to flow. What I forgot to think of was the cart itself is 7 inches of vertical height. Then there's the 6" for the pallet on the first crate, and then another 6 inches for the pallet of the second crate which I was going to stack on top. That puts the very top of a double stack of wood near the middle of the fans (see yellow line in pic). So the question is, is that still doable for air flow? And just how much space does there need to be between the kiln unit and the pile of wood? And how much space between the stack of wood and the opposite wall(where air flows into the stack)?

(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20037/20181105-kildbldg-6-jim-yellow.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1544993813)
 
Title: Re: my kiln is almost ready
Post by: GeneWengert-WoodDoc on December 16, 2018, 07:18:08 PM
This looks super.  Don't forget the wheelbarrow you will need to carry all the money you will be making.

One small addition would be to insulate any concrete that is at and above ground.  The 2 pink foam board is fine.  (If you hadn't insulated the floor, then perimeter insulation about two feet deep would be  a good addition around the perimeter of the building.)

One thing I would like to see on every kiln is a note to the volunteer fire department that says "Do not open door in case of fire until hose is running" or similar.  (The kiln is virtually air tight, so if the DH overheats, fan motor sparks, or other fire ignition source is present, the moment the door is opened and the oxygen gets into the smoldering fire, it will be like an explosion in a few seconds unless there is a water spray from the fire hose.  Many FDs do not know how to fight a kiln fire properly.)  At the least, write them a letter with instructions.  Of course, that means you also do not open the door whenever there is smoke.

We have also seen transient people sneak into a kiln to sleep.  A door lock is a good idea.
Title: Re: my kiln is almost ready
Post by: jimbarry on December 16, 2018, 08:09:18 PM
Its a tough, very small market, rurally located, I do not expect to profit from the kiln to be honest. If that happens, its an unexpected and welcomed surprise.

Its a 2x6 wood floor on 6x6 wood piers. Zero concrete. Between the joists are 2 inch rigid foam on the ground, 4 inch spray foam on top.

Good point about fire. No transients here except for deer, bobcats and the occasional raccoon. The door does have  deadbolt though.
Title: Re: my L200 kiln is almost ready
Post by: jimbarry on December 27, 2018, 07:20:14 AM
Speaking of day to day operations, as it relates to L200




(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20037/20181227-kildbldg-head-space3.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1545913122)
 
Title: Re: my L200 kiln is almost ready
Post by: K-Guy on December 27, 2018, 08:50:34 AM
Hi Jim
Your answers are:
1) 18 inches is best but no less than 12".
2) the manual says 12" from kiln unit but many stack up to the unit and say it's okay.
3) you can have your stack all the way to the bottom of the fan wall. A narrow high stack is better than a short fat one due to better airflow. :)
Title: Re: my L200 kiln is almost ready
Post by: YellowHammer on December 27, 2018, 06:08:26 PM
Stacking high to the bottom of the fan baffle will help reduce baffling and also add top weight to help keep the lumber flat.

If you are front loading toward the kiln unit itself, especially if you plan on loading close, or side loading by cart, I would advise putting some "bump" protection up.  Its very easy to go a little too far forward and squash the kiln like a beer can, or even have a sticker grab it and push it around ripping wires and stuff from the wall.  

So clearance between the wood is not only a good idea for drying, think of it a margin of protection for the unit.  Also, some times it may become necessary to see if the unit is working and the best way to do that is to pull up the front filter and feel the evaporator coil to see if its cool.  Otherwise, you would have to unload the entire kiln.  
Title: Re: my L200 kiln is almost ready
Post by: longtime lurker on December 28, 2018, 05:27:18 AM
1.Plenum size (the space between the front of the stack and the wall/door on the high pressure side) is critical to good kiln functioning. If you dont have enough room there you get uneven airflow which leads to uneven drying. The number I've always been told is that it should equal or be greater then the height of the total number of stickers in a charge of 4/4.... so if you've got 40 courses of lumber on 3/4 stickers there should be 30" between the front of the stack and the door/wall. 

2.The low pressure side isnt so critical with DH. Whatever works but you want to be able to sneak between the condensor unit and the stack ideally. 

3. Pack her to the fan truss.

Can you ditch the pallets somehow? Lift the pack of lumber off pallet onto cart, then next pack off pallet and onto a row of stickers on the previous pack? Thats another foot of space opened up, and saves having holes that need blocking as well.
Title: Re: my L200 kiln is almost ready
Post by: jimbarry on December 28, 2018, 05:34:03 AM
Soon as I am ready I will be loading it with firewood as a test run. So the pallets will have to stay. I could reduce the size of the pallets by half probably, make them thinner, as they are a one time use pallet anyway.
Title: Re: my L200 kiln is almost ready
Post by: GeneWengert-WoodDoc on December 30, 2018, 01:58:07 PM
If drying green lumber, the wall plenum should be the height of the stacks  in feet divided by 5.  So, 10 high is 2 feet minimum.  This is done in order to get fairly uniform air flow, top to bottom.  You need the same gap, front and back.

With air dried wood, a smaller plenum is fine, as uniform air flow is no longer an issue for uniform air drying.

The height is not an issue, except that over eight feet we begin to worry about tipping, so may need crossers every four feet in height to stabiliza the stacks.

We typically want no less than 250 fpm airflow...the higher you go, the more fan power you need.  Fan cfm= number of sticker openings x (sticker height in inches / 12) x length of lumber in feet x 250 fpm.  Then add 50% more for leaks.  

Example with 12 lumber and 39 layers using 0.75 stickers...
40 x 0.75 /12 x 12 x 250 = 7500 cfm and add 3750 cfm to get no less than 12,000 cfm.