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General Forestry => Sawmills and Milling => Topic started by: Joey Grimes on December 25, 2015, 07:53:17 PM

Title: log tenon cutters
Post by: Joey Grimes on December 25, 2015, 07:53:17 PM
I've been thinking about getting some log furniture tools does anyone have suggestions? Been looking at lumberjack tools.Ive got an abundance of small cedar logs that I would hate to see used as fence posts .
Title: Re: log tenon cutters
Post by: Magicman on December 25, 2015, 10:36:11 PM
@yukon cornelius (http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=23654) and @POSTONLT40HD (http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=14625) both use them.
Title: Re: log tenon cutters
Post by: POSTON WIDEHEAD on December 25, 2015, 10:46:24 PM
Thanks Magic for the direction.

Hey Joey....yep, I cut tenons and absolutely love it.
I bought the whole set from Lumber Jack and also the drill motor. The drill motor is made by Milwaukee and turns at a constant 450 rpm. A variable speed just doesn't work good.

What rubbed my fur backwards was when I bought the whole set....within 24 hours they sending me ads by email with some of the cutters on sell at half price.  :o :o :o :o

If I had bought a little a long the way I could have saved some $$$$. They send be sale ads all the time.

But anyway, If I can help you, just let me know. I'll even call you and chat about it.  smiley_gossip

Member Yukon Cornelius actually cuts WAY MORE tenons than I do and has been doing it longer. He can be of a great help also.

Merry Christmas
Title: Re: log tenon cutters
Post by: yukon cornelius on December 25, 2015, 10:52:22 PM
I have a one inch and 2 inch with the radius shoulders, home series. I have a 1.5 with the flat shoulder comercial  series. I use them nearly daily for over 2 years. They have held up flawlessly. Now, pros and cons. the commercial series with the flat blade takes much less power to turn. It leaves a rough tenon. The home series with radius shoulders, with knotty cedar requires removal of some materials to get them to work well.

Holding the log is another thing to consider. Piston had an amazing setup. I started using a pipe vise. Worked great but limited by size. It required padding to keep from biting big marks in the wood. I now use a big metal vise bolted on a heavy metal table. I will be happy to help you with any questions.
Title: Re: log tenon cutters
Post by: yukon cornelius on December 25, 2015, 10:56:40 PM
I bought mine from grizzly mostly because its about an hour from here. A good forstner bit set is good to have.

I considered going to the commercial series solely but the rough tenon is the killer for me.
Title: Re: log tenon cutters
Post by: Ohio_Bill on December 25, 2015, 10:57:51 PM
I agree lumber jack tools are good and made in the USA. go to there Web site and sign up for email and they will send you emails of specials, if you're a veteran you get a discount.
Title: Re: log tenon cutters
Post by: Kbeitz on December 25, 2015, 11:14:35 PM
I use the lumberjack tenon bits but I dont use a drill.
I mount the tenon bit in my wood lathe chuck and hold the log.
I made a metal ring to slide the log into that hooks on the bed of the lathe
so it cant sling the log out of my hands.
Title: Re: log tenon cutters
Post by: johnnyllama on December 26, 2015, 07:15:43 AM
We have the Veritas tenon cutters and they work great, very smooth cutting but only have the 1/2" and 1" sizes, more for smaller projects like benches and rails. I built a shaving horse that works well to hold the sizes we are using but it could work with a 2" also. Here's a photo of my son using it with a drawknife.

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36115/20130412_183523.jpg)
Title: Re: log tenon cutters
Post by: Joey Grimes on December 26, 2015, 08:06:25 AM
Thanks to all think I'm going to order commercial 2 cutter kit one inch and 2 inch and get the 1.5 later.My first project will be a bed for my son.
Title: Re: log tenon cutters
Post by: customsawyer on December 26, 2015, 08:08:52 AM
This is the only experience I have with making tenons and doubt if it counts. ;D
 

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11861/image~15.jpeg) 
Title: Re: log tenon cutters
Post by: yukon cornelius on December 26, 2015, 08:24:07 AM
joey, that exactly what I did. everything I make could either be 1 or 2 inch. the 1.5 is handy at times for the inbetween size log but not necessary. the veritas cutter look identical to me. they also look like they would be pretty good.
Title: Re: log tenon cutters
Post by: isawlogs on December 26, 2015, 08:36:14 AM
 Lee valley tools has  Veritas tenon cutters that I use. I have a few for use with brace and have a few a drill.
Title: Re: log tenon cutters
Post by: Kbeitz on December 26, 2015, 09:24:58 AM
This is what I'm useing...

 

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/Commercial_Series_Tenon_Cutter.jpg)
Title: Re: log tenon cutters
Post by: Magicman on December 26, 2015, 09:32:05 AM
Jake =  :D  :D
Title: Re: log tenon cutters
Post by: yukon cornelius on December 26, 2015, 09:48:13 AM
This is what I'm useing...

 

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/Commercial_Series_Tenon_Cutter.jpg)

I have just one of that style. I upgraded my forstner bit to Irwin's with the self feed screws. The work well but are very aggressive and can on occasion the screw can cause the log to split. 1 out of maybe 100 times. I drill in with a 1\4 inch to help relieve some tension.

Customsawyer,  :D  :D :D :D
Title: Re: log tenon cutters
Post by: DbltreeBelgians on December 27, 2015, 08:38:15 PM
I've been making rustic log furniture for close to 20 years now and really enjoy it.
I too use the Veritas radius type tenon cutters and have 1", 1", and 2" and I purchased
them from Lee Valley Tools. I also have a Bosworth 2" 60 commercial cutter. I use an old
Sioux heavy duty cast alum drill with a 5/8" chuck. Sometimes if I catch a knot in some oak
that's real dry that big drill will try to take me for a ride. The wife has been hounding me for
years to make a king size log bed but I just haven't figured out what I want to make it out
of yet. I used almost all of my Aspen to make her a love seat that turned out sweet.
Whatever you decide to get you'll find it enjoyable and very rewarding making log furniture.

Brent
Title: Re: log tenon cutters
Post by: Joey Grimes on December 27, 2015, 09:45:50 PM
I may have to rethink my size of cutters as after checking my log sizes most of my small logs are 5-6  inches on small end.
A 2 inch tenon cutter has a maximum log size about 4 inches.
Title: Re: log tenon cutters
Post by: POSTON WIDEHEAD on December 27, 2015, 09:50:05 PM
I may have to rethink my size of cutters as after checking my log sizes most of my small logs are 5-6  inches on small end.


Put em on a lathe.  :)
Title: Re: log tenon cutters
Post by: yukon cornelius on December 27, 2015, 10:15:08 PM
I may have to rethink my size of cutters as after checking my log sizes most of my small logs are 5-6  inches on small end.
A 2 inch tenon cutter has a maximum log size about 4 inches.


I remove material to get it to a size it will handle. You can drawknife it or a electric hand held plane works well.

Can I put out a plea again please! If you use the old metal case drills and electric tools, please please please!!!! Make certain it is fully and well grounded. While working in EMS I had to work my 21 year old cousin who wad electricuted and died using the big metal case drill. It just shorted to the metal case. I would rather see them replaced. I have been zapped before but that was heart breaking. Its now my mission to put that out every chance I get.
Title: Re: log tenon cutters
Post by: Kbeitz on December 28, 2015, 06:14:13 AM
I really like using my wood lathe to hold my tenon bits.
I never got a shock from this drill but it almost got the best of me anyway. 20" high.
One inch chuck and it will snap a 2" bit with no problem if you are strong enough to hold it.

 

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/_20i_nch_hand_drill.jpg)


Title: Re: log tenon cutters
Post by: isawlogs on December 28, 2015, 08:30:22 AM
 Before the mag drills, those where arm and wrist breakers...  :-\ 
Title: Re: log tenon cutters
Post by: Kbeitz on December 28, 2015, 09:12:44 AM
Before the mag drills, those where arm and wrist breakers...  :-\

Yea... Gotta Mag drill but it's not stickin to good on my wood products.

 

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/Mag_Drill.JPG)
Title: Re: log tenon cutters
Post by: LittleJohn on December 28, 2015, 09:41:55 AM
...pros and cons. the commercial series with the flat blade takes much less power to turn. It leaves a rough tenon. The home series with radius shoulders, with knotty cedar requires removal of some materials to get them to work well.

Holding the log is another thing to consider. Piston had an amazing setup. I started using a pipe vise. Worked great but limited by size. It required padding to keep from biting big marks in the wood. I now use a big metal vise bolted on a heavy metal table. I will be happy to help you with any questions.

I have the Veritas 1" and 1.5" Radius tenon cutter, cut only cedar (occassional white birch for Wifes craft projects).  They work good, but can be difficult to start unless you have a perfectly round log/stick to start with or you like to widdle a good starting chamfer.  The 1.5" (Big Boy, in my house) has to be coupled to a mightly big drill, I run a Dewalt DW130V 1/2" Spade Handle Drill; for the 1" cutter I can sometimes cheat and use a 18v cordless drill (just make sure not to over-rotate or spin too fast) as the cutters are not balanced very well.

...also the cutting blades on the radius tenon cutter can be quite tricky to sharpen, not that sharpening flat blades are easy either (one of the skill sets that I struggle with)
Title: Re: log tenon cutters
Post by: isawlogs on December 28, 2015, 10:10:15 AM
  Not too good on wood, but ya can always strap um down....  ;D   I have one of those beast of a drill here also, I don't really know why I keep it around, I stopped usint it after it bit my wrist a few decades ago!    >:( >:(   hurt_smiley
Title: Re: log tenon cutters
Post by: dboyt on December 28, 2015, 12:08:31 PM
I use a "Cylinder Mill" jig for my table saw.  I've only had it a short time, but it did a great job turning a new 5' handle for my cant hook (Osage orange).  It has several advantages.  It lines up the ends of the log so that the tenons are perfectly aligned, allows either square or rounded shoulders, and will cut tapered tenons, if you want.  I'm looking forward to using it more.
Title: Re: log tenon cutters
Post by: Kbeitz on December 28, 2015, 03:34:26 PM
Cutter on the lathe.

 

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/Tennon_cutter_1.JPG)
Title: Re: log tenon cutters
Post by: Kbeitz on December 28, 2015, 04:43:27 PM
I use a "Cylinder Mill" jig for my table saw.  I've only had it a short time, but it did a great job turning a new 5' handle for my cant hook (Osage orange).  It has several advantages.  It lines up the ends of the log so that the tenons are perfectly aligned, allows either square or rounded shoulders, and will cut tapered tenons, if you want.  I'm looking forward to using it more.

I had to look that one up...
Thats one neat tool...
Title: Re: log tenon cutters
Post by: valley ranch on December 28, 2015, 07:09:38 PM
 yukon cornelius, Thanks for posting that about the metal case drills. I have saws, drills and such, the insulation not in that good condition, never gave it a thought.

Richard
Title: Re: log tenon cutters
Post by: DMcCoy on December 28, 2015, 07:28:22 PM
This is the only experience I have with making tenons and doubt if it counts. ;D
 

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11861/image~15.jpeg)

A small cushion would make a great accessory. You could call it a stool softener.
Title: Re: log tenon cutters
Post by: Kbeitz on December 28, 2015, 07:55:50 PM
yukon cornelius, Thanks for posting that about the metal case drills. I have saws, drills and such, the insulation not in that good condition, never gave it a thought.

Richard

You should be safe if your cord has the grounding prong on the plug and if your outlets are grounded.
At my sawmill or any place I have a receptacle out side I alway run an extra ground rod.
If the short has a place to go your should be safe. Best to have a  GFI.
Title: Re: log tenon cutters
Post by: KirkD on December 28, 2015, 08:39:29 PM
I use a "Cylinder Mill" jig for my table saw.  I've only had it a short time, but it did a great job turning a new 5' handle for my cant hook (Osage orange).  It has several advantages.  It lines up the ends of the log so that the tenons are perfectly aligned, allows either square or rounded shoulders, and will cut tapered tenons, if you want.  I'm looking forward to using it more.

I had to look that one up...
Thats one neat tool...

And easy enough to build.
Title: Re: log tenon cutters
Post by: Fundyheather on December 28, 2015, 10:27:14 PM
Method 1:

Picture a dado cutter in a dedicated junk table saw, having a taper ended steel spike finger protruding directly and horizontally over top and forward of the running dado cutter.  The spike finger assembly is bolted to the table behind the dado cutter.  The spike finger is attached to this assembly with a hinge in such a way that the spike can pivot upwards from horizontal, but not at all downwards below horizontal.  A small counter weight (or a tight hinge) lightly keeps the finger raised up from horizontal toward 45 degrees.  The radius of the finished tenon equals the distance between the center of the spike finger and the top of the dado cutter, so tenon radius is adjustable at the table saw, and the tenon length is adjusted depending on the length of wood fed forward.

Now drill a hole in the end of a stick of wood, hole being the depth of the spike finger and slightly bigger than the diameter of the spike.

Gently feed the wood down into the spike at about 45 degrees until the wood contacts the dado cutter.  Slowly rotate the wood as you also decline the wood toward horizontal, cutting a big finished tenon with tapered shoulders in one go (with not insignificant personal danger.)

Method 2:

In something big, say a fence rail held projecting off a work table, freehand bore into the center end with say a 2" or 3" hollow auger.  Let the restraints off the fence rail and chatter in towards the base of the hollow auger hole with a small chainsaw, in such a way that the chainsaw is kind of rotating the fence rail for you until a donut of wood can be removed to expose your tenon.  Flare the tenon shoulders back with the saw if you want.  Then use a matching sized big forstner type bit to cut the tenon hole in your fencepost say, drive it all home and pin it.  Best if your fence rails are kind of dry so they will swell into the damp posts.

Good luck, I hope you can afford better equipment so it never has to come down to this.

jim

   
Title: Re: log tenon cutters
Post by: yukon cornelius on December 28, 2015, 11:06:28 PM
yukon cornelius, Thanks for posting that about the metal case drills. I have saws, drills and such, the insulation not in that good condition, never gave it a thought.

Richard

Your welcome. If it is well grounded you should be fine but if you make a better ground than the ground as in a slightly worn receptical or plug or a wire that has began to break inside the sheath or you have sweaty hands or if your ground rod gets dry around it or just not well grounded. After the accident I decided I would pass it on to everyone I can. It might not be you but a loved one that gets the bad end.
Title: Re: log tenon cutters
Post by: Downstream on December 31, 2015, 03:49:01 PM
i went through the same thoughts a few months ago wanting to make tenon joints but not wanting to spend a bunch of money on the cutters for every diameter.  I found a video online showing a guy with a simple jig that mounts to a router table.  the jig has a quarter inch shaft(i used long bolt with head cut off) sticking out over hanging the router bit.  you drill a  hole in the end of the piece you want to cut the tenon into that matches the shaft diameter.  you adjust the height of the router bit to the center line of the shaft in the jig to make any diameter tenon you want.  you slowly rotate the piece in your hand as you push it onto the shaft and it cuts a nice tenon to whatever depth or diameter you want.  the type of router bit profile determines shape of transition from tenon to dull diameter log.  I always start out slightly larger than required finished diameter so i can fine tune for the tightest fit by bringing up the router with it's fine tuning adjustment.  im still improving the method but have made some nice benches using 2" tenon size.   I will take a photo of my set-up later and attach if anyone is interested.
Title: Re: log tenon cutters
Post by: Kbeitz on December 31, 2015, 04:36:55 PM
Antique tenon cutters was adjustable to different sizes.
They show up on ebay from time to time.
I have a few...

 

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/Tenon_bit.jpg)

 

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/SPOKE_TRIMMER.jpg)
Title: Re: log tenon cutters
Post by: tmarch on January 01, 2016, 04:07:00 PM
Seeing the tenon cutter on the lathe got me to thinking ???  I have a Shopsmith, and I'm thinking using clamps to hold the log and use the boring feed to cut the tenon.  Thinking it would be easier to control the cut that way.
Title: Re: log tenon cutters
Post by: Kbeitz on January 01, 2016, 05:59:16 PM
I dont have it finished yet but I'm going to make a sliding clamp that fits
in the long slot on my lathe bed. it will look something like this.
The log will go between the two rails of steel that will be kinda V shaped.

 

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/Lathe_log_holder.jpg)
Title: Re: log tenon cutters
Post by: Fundyheather on January 01, 2016, 08:03:01 PM
Pawed around in the basement to find my old tenon rig.  Bolts down onto a table saw mounting a dado cutter. Cut a guide hole in your stock to match the 'finger.'  Come down into the dado at about 45 degrees while slowly spinning the stock, declining to horizontal and feeding forward into the dado as you go.  Must have upwards of $5 invested here.   


(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38341/TenonCutterBackside.jpg)
(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38341/TenonCutterDadoside.jpg)
(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38341/TenonCutterSide.jpg)
Title: Re: log tenon cutters
Post by: beenthere on January 02, 2016, 12:30:46 AM
A bit more about how it works and makes a tenon. Appears to be a stove pipe connected to it, and a stone to hold it up.  Are there better shots of what it does and what the guide hole is?
Sounds clever, but just not seeing it...
Title: Re: log tenon cutters
Post by: isawlogs on January 02, 2016, 09:28:31 AM
 Beenthere.... the pipe is connected to his stove, the patio stone is on the stove, the tenon cutter is on the patio stone resting on a stone. I would also like to see it set up!!!
Title: Re: log tenon cutters
Post by: Kbeitz on January 02, 2016, 09:34:52 AM
Yea.... me to....
Title: Re: log tenon cutters
Post by: breederman on January 02, 2016, 11:38:47 AM
Me three
Title: Re: log tenon cutters
Post by: GrahamW on January 02, 2016, 12:25:07 PM
This https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fp5n7SpzGLE video might help.

Regards

Graham
Title: Re: log tenon cutters
Post by: Joey Grimes on January 02, 2016, 09:37:43 PM
Thanks for posting video of tablesaw jig it's got me thinking.Ive made a lot of tablesaw jigs but this one is amazing! !
Title: Re: log tenon cutters
Post by: whitepine2 on January 02, 2016, 10:46:25 PM
yukon cornelius, Thanks for posting that about the metal case drills. I have saws, drills and such, the insulation not in that good condition, never gave it a thought.

Richard

Your welcome. If it is well grounded you should be fine but if you make a better ground than the ground as in a slightly worn receptical or plug or a wire that has began to break inside the sheath or you have sweaty hands or if your ground rod gets dry around it or just not well grounded. After the accident I decided I would pass it on to everyone I can. It might not be you but a loved one that gets the bad end.

Yes many years ago when I was a P.O. it fell upon me to notify a young 27 year old wife that her husband would never be coming home again. He was employed at the Boston Navel Ship Yard and on a very hot and humid day he was drilling on a deck and sweat had run down and zapped him. That's all I was told as he was 50 miles away and didn't have all the information but it's something one never forgets very,very sad. Ya never know when your time is up just gotta be careful always.
Title: Re: log tenon cutters
Post by: 69bronco on January 03, 2016, 07:37:38 AM
Thanks Graham! That's slicker than snot on a doorknob. .
Title: Re: log tenon cutters
Post by: Fundyheather on January 03, 2016, 12:03:19 PM
Hi guys from Jim, nice newsgroup you have here.

I dug out the rest of my old tenon contraption for action shots, now posted to my gallery.  Hope I make some sense now. 

I'm using a wobble dado blade set to 1/2" on a junk table saw.  The 'finger' is about 3/8 th, the loop in the back is a counterweight; although when I welded in the hinge the heat warped and jammed it a bit, which was even better. 

The contraption can be elevated on the table by adding washer like shims to admit larger stock, but you may also have to get a bigger diameter dado to make that work. 

A longer finger would allow longer tenons.  With existing setup, I can get a longer tenon by advancing the stock forward and backward as much as I dare when I'm down horizontal from the table.  I often go with whatever it gives me, just trimming off, or shaving down the 'bulb' end at the front of the stock. 

The initial guide hole in the stock wants to be slightly bigger than the guide finger, and if not freehanding the guide hole, a drill jig could be devised.     

Your first setup cut is a test cut to determine actual tenon width, which will be close to twice the radius of the distance between the center of guide 'finger' and the top of the dado.  So in a plank, using a forstner bit of your desired size, drill a hole and see if you can hammer your test tenon into it.  Adjust forstner bit size or dado height until you get what you want.

'Depending,' you probably want your tenon stock to be drier than your receiving stock so the joint will lock itself up.  Outside work, I use a deck screw as a pin.  I mostly used this thing in fences and railings.  My preference in more anal work is to be fussy about stock sizing, using matching forstner bits to join all my bark surfaces so no raw wood shows whenever possible.

Good luck and be careful with these homebrew saw things!
jim   

   (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38341/TenonStart.jpg)

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38341/TenonPreTrim.jpg)

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38341/FenceTenon.jpg)
Title: Re: log tenon cutters
Post by: tawilson on April 10, 2018, 06:54:11 PM
Seeing as this thread came up just as I had a question about tenon cutting I'll ask it here. I just picked up a Dewalt DW124 right angle drill and wondered how it would work. It has a low speed of 300 rpm with a clutch. Thanks.
Title: Re: log tenon cutters
Post by: Kbeitz on April 10, 2018, 07:49:15 PM
Sounds like the right drill for the job... Does it have two handles across from each other?
Title: Re: log tenon cutters
Post by: tawilson on April 10, 2018, 08:01:35 PM
Not exactly.  Long body with a handle on  the back and one out the side. It's made for drilling holes through wood so I guess it should be good.
Title: Re: log tenon cutters
Post by: Kbeitz on April 11, 2018, 12:00:48 AM
You really want one with two handles to hold. I made a jig for my wood lathe to cut tenons.Doing it with a drill was scary.
Title: Re: log tenon cutters
Post by: tawilson on April 11, 2018, 09:44:53 AM
I can put 2 pipe handles on it. I'm seeing what I have kicking around to make a jig and log support and if I come up with something I'll order the cutters. Thanks (http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10919/Dewalt_DW124.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1523453703)
Title: Re: log tenon cutters
Post by: forgeblast on April 11, 2018, 11:26:37 AM
I have the lee valley ones.  Before I got them I built a jig that would let me cut them on a table saw but I cannot find where I got the idea from.
The lee valley aka pencil sharpener ones are great.  
I also have tapered ones that I am going to use to make a few chairs.  
Title: Re: log tenon cutters
Post by: scouter Joe on April 11, 2018, 07:30:01 PM
You will have good control with the drill with out the pipes installed . I've used the same style drill for many years and other than it being a little harder to line and drill straight tenons you will be very happy with that style of Dewalt drill . scouter Joe
Title: Re: log tenon cutters
Post by: tawilson on May 18, 2018, 08:26:47 AM
The drill does work fine. I got the Lumberjack Industrial kit which they have on sale now for $399.
Title: Re: log tenon cutters
Post by: LittleJohn on May 21, 2018, 10:53:29 AM
I prefer using a big heavy drill for tenon cutting, yeah it is a pain to get perfectly straight but I feel that the trigger control is better for speed of cutter control.  I am also not that comfortable around lathes, that's just me; have not tried the table saw approach.

Would say a tenon cutter 1" or smaller can be run by a cordless drill with a clutch, larger than that and you risk messing up the drill.  Mind you I only ever cut tenon on white (swamp) cedar and white birch; both VERY soft woods
Title: Re: log tenon cutters
Post by: cbla on May 22, 2018, 05:46:42 AM
I got my tenon cutters from lumberjack tools. They have good sales on around Christmas/ black Friday.