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Author Topic: Journey of family run sawmill  (Read 7532 times)

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Offline Busysawyer

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Re: Journey of family run sawmill
« Reply #40 on: April 17, 2018, 09:51:44 PM »
Look at other OWBs too.


^ *2 on the advice given by thecfarm there, do plenty of research.  


I think I know what your getting at. Found a lot of complaints about central boiler. Products, service and warranty. Do you guys have any brands you think I should check out.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in awhile

Offline thecfarm

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Re: Journey of family run sawmill
« Reply #41 on: April 18, 2018, 06:22:51 AM »
Portage and Main,Heatmor. They all have big ones.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Offline moodnacreek

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Re: Journey of family run sawmill
« Reply #42 on: April 18, 2018, 01:15:06 PM »
Would love to post lots of things but it's not easy for us. The computer has to be in just the right mood to recognize the match book from the camera. Also not sure what I am not allowed to show. If I had your mailing address or fax I would send diagram of sweep table I copied when I made mine.  This sweeps off to the side. A tailer runs the edged boards straight and drops the sticks. This set up takes a lot or space behind the edger and that is why I didn't build one and why [as I already said] the sawmill should feed the main building.

Offline Busysawyer

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Re: Journey of family run sawmill
« Reply #43 on: April 20, 2018, 10:43:37 PM »
Portage and Main,Heatmor. They all have big ones.
Thank you for the suggestions I'll check them out. 
Would love to post lots of things but it's not easy for us. The computer has to be in just the right mood to recognize the match book from the camera. Also not sure what I am not allowed to show. If I had your mailing address or fax I would send diagram of sweep table I copied when I made mine.  This sweeps off to the side. A tailer runs the edged boards straight and drops the sticks. This set up takes a lot or space behind the edger and that is why I didn't build one and why [as I already said] the sawmill should feed the main building.


I will message you my address. I'm curious and would like to learn more. 



So the weather has been beautiful and my acre of mud is drying out quickly. Had my neighbor stop by. He owns a tree service and is interested in trading trees for me milling some things for him. He said he sells a lot of logs to another mill about 30 mins from here right now.  He told me he doesn't like the guy and would rather work out a deal with me. He's a really nice guy and came over to help me drop a few trees that were next to the barn.

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in awhile

Offline WV Sawmiller

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Re: Journey of family run sawmill
« Reply #44 on: April 21, 2018, 06:24:23 PM »
BB,

   Sounds like a real good deal with your tree service neighbor if y'all can work out the details. We had some recent threads on bartering for logs that I hope you read. Easiest way is cash on the barrel head for his logs and him buying back sawed lumber, beams, etc if you both need/produce what the other has/needs. I like bartering but you do have to be careful there is not a perception, real or imagined, that one or the other is taking advantage of the other. Good neighbors are worth more than money. Good luck.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2009 4wd Dodge PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Sthil 440 & 441, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once"

Offline Busysawyer

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Re: Journey of family run sawmill
« Reply #45 on: April 21, 2018, 10:07:49 PM »
BB,

   Sounds like a real good deal with your tree service neighbor if y'all can work out the details. We had some recent threads on bartering for logs that I hope you read. Easiest way is cash on the barrel head for his logs and him buying back sawed lumber, beams, etc if you both need/produce what the other has/needs. I like bartering but you do have to be careful there is not a perception, real or imagined, that one or the other is taking advantage of the other. Good neighbors are worth more than money. Good luck.
Thank you for the advice. I have read the bartering thead. He said his guy pays him 2 dollars a bf for walnut logs and that's what he wants from me for the walnut. Every thing else is negotiable I guess.  He wants to trade some logs for milling but I don't think he wants much so I am going to offer to pay him for anything after his milling work is done. He has also proposed that I could come to his jobs after he has limbed out and cleaned up to cut and take the main trunks myself. I agree with you about good neighbors being valuable.  I'm easy going and don't care if I lose a little money or time helping him out with whatever he needs. Since I stopped over at his house and introduced myself a couple weeks ago he has been over here just to talk and check on progress about half a dozen times. 
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in awhile

Offline Southside

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Re: Journey of family run sawmill
« Reply #46 on: April 21, 2018, 10:24:53 PM »
He has also proposed that I could come to his jobs after he has limbed out and cleaned up to cut and take the main trunks myself


I would be extremely leery of such an arrangement.  First, there is the whole liability issue, arborists have very expensive insurance for a reason, it's a 100% claim category.  Second is the reality that he is getting paid to remove the tree that you are now coming and getting for him.  What happens when the lawn gets torn up?  Who is going to load the logs and what happens when something goes wrong?  I take in yard trees, but I don't pay for them.  I do take in the stump grindings, chips and tops that would otherwise cost the tree service money to get rid of, so we both benefit from the arrangement.  
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Offline Busysawyer

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Re: Journey of family run sawmill
« Reply #47 on: April 21, 2018, 10:25:48 PM »
Only 8 more trees to cut down and clean up, then I can get the excavator out here to rip up the stumps that are left. Any tree 16in diameter and smaller I just pushed over with the bobcat and uprooted them so only about 20 big stumps to pull then I can start filling and leveling. It is taking me a little longer than expected to remove all the trees but I'm doing the vast majority on my own. I'm not ready for the mill yet but the wait for it is killing me. Placed the order almost 6 weeks ago and I have looked at the woodmizer catalog about 1000 times. I can't wait to start posting in the sawmill and milling boards with the rest of you guys. Also I had lunch with a guy that I worked for 20 years ago that owns a custom cabinet and furniture shop now. He stopped by the house and we talked wood for about an hour. He does a lot of slab tables and bars. Said if I could match his suppliers pricing he would buy from me exclusively.  So now I have to small cabinet and furniture customers lined up and a wholesale buyer for quantity.  So it's really looking like this is going to come down to two things. Can I produce an acceptable quality product and will it be profitable? I am very optimistic but nervous at the same time.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in awhile

Offline Busysawyer

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Re: Journey of family run sawmill
« Reply #48 on: April 21, 2018, 10:35:18 PM »
He has also proposed that I could come to his jobs after he has limbed out and cleaned up to cut and take the main trunks myself


I would be extremely leery of such an arrangement.  First, there is the whole liability issue, arborists have very expensive insurance for a reason, it's a 100% claim category.  Second is the reality that he is getting paid to remove the tree that you are now coming and getting for him.  What happens when the lawn gets torn up?  Who is going to load the logs and what happens when something goes wrong?  I take in yard trees, but I don't pay for them.  I do take in the stump grindings, chips and tops that would otherwise cost the tree service money to get rid of, so we both benefit from the arrangement.  
I hear you there. I'm not too excited about that idea.  I do need to get my own insurance though.  I have made arrangements to buy trees from three different friends of the family and need to be insured.  Two of the properties are within a mile of me and there is about 50 really nice walnuts between the two. Another family friend has over 100 sizable walnut about an hour from here and he wants to sell them to us as well. None of these people need the money but I said I would pay them fair market value.  One of the properties wasnts them all taken at once but the other 2 said come and get them as needed and I can pay them as I go.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in awhile

Offline WV Sawmiller

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Re: Journey of family run sawmill
« Reply #49 on: April 22, 2018, 07:06:20 PM »
Southside,

  The liability is a very good point but I would not consider it a stopper. I'd just discuss it with the arborist neighbor and tell him I was concerned about the liability and who would pay for any damage caused  by me during transport.

  Yes, he is likely getting paid for removal of the logs but if I needed them and could get first pick and had the time and equipment to pick up the logs with reasonable liability I would do it, especially if that was what it took to make the deal work.

  I don't get many logs from others. I did get some from an arborist and he loaded them. I backed my trailer where he told me, he loaded and we both benefited from that deal. I have gotten several loads from friends who cut them in their yards and I hauled and together we loaded them. There may have been some liability there but these were close friends and they were not concerned about the potential damage to their yards. Of course they were down to earth country folks who understand you don't remove large logs without big equipment and big equipment leaves marks and not some hooty tooty "don't step off the sidewalk" kind of snobs.

  There is risk but just weigh the risk vs the reward and make your best decision and adjust as you learn from the real life aspects.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2009 4wd Dodge PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Sthil 440 & 441, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once"

Offline Southside

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Re: Journey of family run sawmill
« Reply #50 on: April 22, 2018, 11:44:46 PM »
Yellowhammer can tell you some horror stories about trying to make it work on site with arborists.  Once the logs are out of the customers yard the situation changes, but until then - you know how some people can be.  
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Offline YellowHammer

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Re: Journey of family run sawmill
« Reply #51 on: April 23, 2018, 12:53:15 AM »
The only thing worse than being chewed out by my customers is being chewed out by someone else's.  When I worked with tree guys, the last one who leaves the site gets chewed out by the customer, and guess who is the last one leaving?  The guy with the logs.  Some times it worked, some times it didn't, and when it didn't, it was memorable.  

I now only take logs from arborists if they deliver to my mill, or stage them at their own logyard for me to pick an choose which ones I want.  Arborists are paid a dump fee by the customer, and they would have to transport them anyway, either to the dump or to another sawmill, so they have to get some separation between my business and their business before I will buy them.  

Arborist insurance is very expensive, and is different than loggers insurance, which is also very expensive, which is different than log truckers insurance, which is also expensive.  Although it's important to have insurance to protect from damages to other persons property, insurance is required if you or someone working for you gets hurt.  There are state laws concerning Workmans Comp and how many employees need be hired to kick in.

Hauling on the roads for a business, even if hauling your own personal business property, i.e. you logs, requires a whole new round of regulations and insurance.  Some states have adopted the Federal Motor Carriers Safety Association, FMCSA, regulations and if hauling for any activity where money changes hands, then either over 10,000 lbs or 26,000 lbs requires different liscenses and insurance.  It's easy to check, got to your state DOT website and it will tell you what you need.  No matter what, if you are over 10,000 lbs combined tuck and/or trailer stickered vehicle weight, and haul across state lines, you will need a DOT number, medical card, and a spreadsheet full of stuff to make you legal.  Over 26,000 lbs, you need a CDL and even more stuff.  Take it from me, the Smokies can and will write a "knee banger" ticket even if completely unloaded.  Many states have allowances for farm tags but typicllay that applies to in state, short hauls and places significant user restrictions on the farm truck that make them unattractive for business use.   

Our business was shaped as much by the insurance requirements and costs, state and federal regulations, and lawyers as much as by what we wanted to do.  I may be beating a dead horse, and you already know all this stuff, but until you get the little yellow certified envelope naming you in a multimillion dollar lawsuit, or have a state trooper pull you over for doing "nothing" and the only reason you don't get to spend time in jail is because he was "nice" to you, it's hard to explain how important it is.  

That being said, there is nothing more gratifiying or enjoyable than having your own business and making a go at it.  If you ever need any help, you have my number, I'll be glad to help all I can.  


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Offline WV Sawmiller

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Re: Journey of family run sawmill
« Reply #52 on: April 23, 2018, 02:17:42 PM »
Hammer,

   I think you need to just write a book on the woes of collecting free logs from arborists.

   I think the solution would be a little advance work to determine whether to put your AU sign on your truck or wear your Alabama hat and shirt when you arrive. That would prevent most of your issues. Of course you might wear your Alabama shirt to the Alabama fan customers and leave them happy then get pulled over on the next block by the county sheriff with the AU plate on the front of his cruiser. :D
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2009 4wd Dodge PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Sthil 440 & 441, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once"

Offline barbender

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Re: Journey of family run sawmill
« Reply #53 on: April 23, 2018, 10:12:45 PM »
Free logs are typically the most expensive, in my experience👎
Too many irons in the fire

Offline YellowHammer

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Re: Journey of family run sawmill
« Reply #54 on: April 24, 2018, 07:42:59 AM »
Yeah, nothing's free. Even if it's free.  
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Offline Busysawyer

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Re: Journey of family run sawmill
« Reply #55 on: April 24, 2018, 08:12:47 AM »
Thank you for all of the advice guys. You all seem to be right on the mark in regards to my experience with dealing with people in general. I did get a really nice 36in x 14 ft walnut log yesterday for free though. Technically not 100% free. I had to pay for fuel to trailer my bobcat 2 miles up the road and back but I did get a nice log and 2 beers out of the deal. I don't drink beer but the guy really wanted me to bs with him and have a beer so I obliged.  Threw the log up on his trailer and he brought it here for me. I you figure in the fact that it took 2 hours due to the chit chat session it cost me about 5 bucks in fuel and 2 hours of down time i still did pretty good. He also had 2 other monster walnuts 45 to 50 in dbh in the woods out back he is talking about getting rid of. While over there the neighbor across the street came over and wanted me to look in his woods. Only 4 acres and he had about a dozen nice walnut and some cherry . The area i live in is loaded with nice walnut and cherry. If I decide to start buying trees it looks like I'll be able to stay pretty busy right near the house.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in awhile

Offline Bruno of NH

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Re: Journey of family run sawmill
« Reply #56 on: April 24, 2018, 12:22:19 PM »
Free logs aren't free
I get tree service logs dropped at my mill it's more work than you think.
Some times you get a mess. 
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Offline Busysawyer

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Re: Journey of family run sawmill
« Reply #57 on: April 29, 2018, 05:01:14 PM »
Just a few more trees to go and I'll be done playing logger for awhile. Excavator will be here Tuesday to rip out about 25 stumps for me. I cut down one of the little walnuts today, now there is only one really nice one left in the way. The one I cut today is about 24in inside the bark. I got one nice log and a couple decent ones. The next walnut isn't huge but she's a beauty.  About 30in dbh clear and straight with very little taper for about 25 ft. 

 

 

 

 
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in awhile

Offline Busysawyer

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Re: Journey of family run sawmill
« Reply #58 on: May 01, 2018, 10:06:15 PM »
Today was a big day for us. All the trees we needed down are down and the stumps are ripped up. I wasn't sure what to do with the stumps so I just stacked them into a wall of sorts.  The morning started good with the excavator making short work of the stumps and I piled them up with the bobcat as he tore them up . Took about 2 hours to pull around 25 to 30 stumps and stack them. After he left I was working on piling up some branches on the burn pile and took a good sized limb through the windshield and about smashed me in the face. Luckily I'm alive and closed mu eyes quick enough that i only got a little glass in one eye. After I showered and shop vac the bobcat out I got back to work. I had the pleasure of meeting Furby from the forums today as well. He stopped over and we had a nice talk . I had a couple hours to start leveling land with the bobcat and made a pretty good dent in it.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in awhile

Offline Magicman

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Re: Journey of family run sawmill
« Reply #59 on: May 01, 2018, 10:30:09 PM »
But where is Furby??  Oh never mind, I see him now.  ;D
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