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Author Topic: Belsaw build  (Read 7735 times)

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Offline moodnacreek

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Re: Belsaw build
« Reply #80 on: April 21, 2019, 09:53:51 AM »
Very perceptive donp, it is in the way but the handle is removeable. I don't often see these belsaws with the short 18ft bed and 6ft carriage like I'm building and I'm finding out that things are cramped. Now that I'm used to seeing mine I realize most of the ones you see online are people that have very long beds and carriages sawing short wood so everything looks very roomy. I think it's going to efficient to have everything almost within arms reach. Things are getting exciting now that I've had the blade spinning.

How many turns of cable should there be on the feed drum? It's 1/4" cable and I have 5 wraps on now.

Is there a torque for the arbor nut? I put a pipe wrench on it and wacked it with a hammer.

How thick should the splitter be in relation to blade thickness? The higher the splitter the better?
5 wraps or 4. If not enough it will slip on a big log. With a wrench length 1/2 the dia. of saw blade, arm strength only, no hammer. [actually self tightening] Splitter: straight edged to log side of blade + a hair more so cant doesn't hit it.

Offline Trapper John

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Re: Belsaw build
« Reply #81 on: April 21, 2019, 01:51:07 PM »
Thanks again Luap, you explain things clearly and quite helpful.  So that valve could work if I make it open center with a sleeve?  Or should I just order a $150 motor spool valve from Surplus Center?
Glendaler, the Belsaw manual says 3 turns but I don't think it makes much difference.  I have 5 or so wraps and the extra has come in handy when I am playing with carriage hookup.  
Here is my scale, I did not like the sliding weight scale, kept hanging up.  This one doesn't lie.

 I was having a hard time with my 48" B-9 saw with 9/32" teeth especially with frozen logs.  Just quit cutting.  I decided to try another 48" saw that came with my Corinth.  This saw is a different beast, D-7 with 5/16 teeth.  I had my doubts when I brought it up to speed because it chattered badly even with plenty of daylight at the guides, but once in a log it calmed down and got to work.  I am back to sawing.  

 again.  

Offline moodnacreek

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Re: Belsaw build
« Reply #82 on: April 21, 2019, 02:53:32 PM »
Trapper, I have never seen a D style, how many teeth? [I do have a 4 1/2 style in 52"x 30 tooth]

Offline moodnacreek

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Re: Belsaw build
« Reply #83 on: April 21, 2019, 03:11:17 PM »
Glendaler, forgot to say that the splitter should be thicker than the blade, 3/8" I believe . On the height it gets tricky. For safety it should be high and curved and close say 1" from teeth. But then you can't put on a larger saw. And the other thing is that if you saw oversized logs they get stuck on the splitter. You may want to grind a taper on the upper part, that's what I did. The splitter must wedge the slab or board away from the saw but not touch the cant. Sometimes a thin tapered slab will shut and go on the inside of the splitter, not good, this is why the splitter should be close to the saw. So you see there is no perfect splitter. The old round ones are really dangerous.

Offline Trapper John

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Re: Belsaw build
« Reply #84 on: April 21, 2019, 09:19:45 PM »
Moodnacreek, that saw has 36 teeth.  It's interesting that B, D, and F all take the same teeth.  I have another saw, an 44", 40t,

 3-8 and I found the old Simonds shanks are not replaced with new Simonds shanks. But the dealer did have some old shanks labeled HOPPE and I will try them soon.  

Offline moodnacreek

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Re: Belsaw build
« Reply #85 on: April 22, 2019, 07:22:14 AM »
Trapper, sounds like you got some old saws to play with, me to. Those style 3 shanks you need could be oversize, not std. For the postage I could send you any style 3 shanks from my collection.

Offline luap

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Re: Belsaw build
« Reply #86 on: April 22, 2019, 12:35:50 PM »
Thanks again Luap, you explain things clearly and quite helpful.  So that valve could work if I make it open center with a sleeve?  Or should I just order a $150 motor spool valve from Surplus Center?
Glendaler, the Belsaw manual says 3 turns but I don't think it makes much difference.  I have 5 or so wraps and the extra has come in handy when I am playing with carriage hookup.  
Here is my scale, I did not like the sliding weight scale, kept hanging up.  This one doesn't lie.
(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)
 I was having a hard time with my 48" B-9 saw with 9/32" teeth especially with frozen logs.  Just quit cutting.  I decided to try another 48" saw that came with my Corinth.  This saw is a different beast, D-7 with 5/16 teeth.  I had my doubts when I brought it up to speed because it chattered badly even with plenty of daylight at the guides, but once in a log it calmed down and got to work.  I am back to sawing.  
(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)
 again.  
No, the plug with sleeve would just close the power beyond port. The open center vs closed center is the difference of design on the internal spool. The power beyond feature allows you to add another valve downstream to control another function. I would buy a new valve and save your existing one in case you  add something in the future.If you did plug the pyb port with the right plug, you could hook up the valve and test it to find out if open vs closed. Those plugs have a short sleeve with an oring  so might not be easy finding the correct one. alternatively you could connect a line to the as is pyb fitting to your return line to tank and make the other normal in, return line connections and connect the working ports to your hyd motor. With open center you should be able to rotate the hyd motor with lever in neutral position. You could do this without hydraulic pump running but the system would have to be charged with oil. It may take some leverage to turn it but it will turn if open center. closed center will not turn. Used hydraulic components can be a gamble but can save money vs buying new.

Offline Trapper John

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Re: Belsaw build
« Reply #87 on: April 23, 2019, 03:02:30 AM »
Thanks again Luap, sounds easier to just buy a new valve.  What is the definition of a motor spool valve?  Is it simply any valve that controls a motor or is it more specific?
Moodnacreek, the new Simonds shank on the left in that photo is called a small v while the shank on the right is what is in my saw and is the regular.  The Hoppe shanks the dealer sent me (at no charge) are the right ones and I tried the saw today.  So far this 44" saw has worked better than the 48 inchers I have been using.  Maybe has something to do with smaller diameter or maybe its better tensioned for my application.  In any case the 9/32 teeth are doing fine.  Why do you think your 2 1/2 tooth style works good in spruce?

Offline moodnacreek

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Re: Belsaw build
« Reply #88 on: April 23, 2019, 07:21:56 AM »
Trapper, 2 1/2 style is small gullet/more teeth. More teeth=more power needed. The reason for more teeth is that the closer the teeth are the straighter the saw will cut. Course tooth saw [what you would use on a bellsaw] dodge the knots and other nasty spots in the log as fine tooth have another tooth close behind before things get out of hand. Out of the 5 saws I have, an old hoe in 2 1/2 is my favorite, better than my new payne. On small to medium sized knotty logs, feeding fast, a 2 1/2 is good. The all around favorite today is the F saw . In my beloved 2 1/2 I have obsolete winter shanks and regular chrome teeth, 9/32. 5/16, if you have power may be better in spruce.

Offline luap

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Re: Belsaw build
« Reply #89 on: April 23, 2019, 09:50:11 AM »
Thanks again Luap, sounds easier to just buy a new valve.  What is the definition of a motor spool valve?  Is it simply any valve that controls a motor or is it more specific?
Moodnacreek, the new Simonds shank on the left in that photo is called a small v while the shank on the right is what is in my saw and is the regular.  The Hoppe shanks the dealer sent me (at no charge) are the right ones and I tried the saw today.  So far this 44" saw has worked better than the 48 inchers I have been using.  Maybe has something to do with smaller diameter or maybe its better tensioned for my application.  In any case the 9/32 teeth are doing fine.  Why do you think your 2 1/2 tooth style works good in spruce?
Motor spool valve : work ports connected to tank in neutral,
cylinder spool valve: work ports blocked in neutral.

Offline glendaler

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Re: Belsaw build
« Reply #90 on: May 07, 2019, 08:16:15 PM »
Well, a year later and I finally made sawdust. Theres a long way to go yet but my feed belt came and there was enough in place to give it a go. My first piece is less than 1/8" variation so I'm optimistic. Dark now so pics later.
Belsaw A10 circle mill,

Offline moodnacreek

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Re: Belsaw build
« Reply #91 on: May 08, 2019, 08:03:55 AM »
Good to hear. At this point it is about the minimum lead and keeping the saw cold.

Offline glendaler

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Re: Belsaw build
« Reply #92 on: May 08, 2019, 06:32:53 PM »
So far that's just the initial lead I set up when I installed the saw, will have to check again. Splitter and carriage scale are next.



 



 



 
Belsaw A10 circle mill,

Offline moodnacreek

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Re: Belsaw build
« Reply #93 on: May 08, 2019, 06:43:31 PM »
Cute, that's a better feed than the newer bellsaws.

Offline bandmiller2

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Re: Belsaw build
« Reply #94 on: May 08, 2019, 07:55:10 PM »
Creeker, what's dangerous about round splitters.?? I've been blissfully milling for years, unaware of pending disaster. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Offline moodnacreek

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Re: Belsaw build
« Reply #95 on: May 08, 2019, 09:24:06 PM »
On a round splitter you have 2 semi circle humps; the rolling splitter and the saw and they form a valley. Any piece of slab , a broken place on the log, etc. that falls in that spot is a blur coming for your face. A knife splitter, close to the saw is safer and the banana splitter the safest of all. The rear of a circle saw [and the top] is what launches stuff at you.

Offline jimparamedic

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Re: Belsaw build
« Reply #96 on: May 11, 2019, 03:31:26 PM »
Real nice job. l like the compact size of it that would be a good size to take to shows. My splitter is  1/4" 5" wide and 24" tall plate ground to knife edge front back and top mounted about 2" behind the saw with 3 AL thread for adjustment so it can be canted at an angle to help open up the cut

Offline glendaler

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Re: Belsaw build
« Reply #97 on: May 11, 2019, 06:29:42 PM »
Thanks, I did think it would be pretty easy to move if it was on skids and just pull it up onto a trailer, but one thing at a time. I did get my splitter on, mounted it with 5/8" fine thread bolts for adjustment. I cut 9 4x4's (3.5 actually) so far, I have cutting one those out of a 6" log down to a science now. Can't believe how quick it can be done. I put a 12" log up and it showed all of my flaws though. 

-I replaced the feed drive belt but not the feed belt within the feedworks, its rotten and broke
-My carriage is too close to the blade and the bigger log with some funky grain pulled the blade over enough to nick the carriage.
-The bed needs to be braced and supported better in a couple spots, I can see it moving at times
-The slot in my guide wheels is too wide compared to my guides, thought I could get away with it but it's probably another reason the blade was able to touch the carriage. I'll be machining new wheels.
-Somebody dropped something once or probably repeatedly (heavy logs) on the carriage so it's low in the center forcing both ends up a bit. I thought the weight of the log would push it down but its allowing the carriage to teeter-totter a bit so the log shudders up and down.
-The feed drive belt wont seem to track properly either, it stays on but is 1/2" to one side. I really don't want to ruin that new very expensive belt.
-I forgot about guide rail scrapers/brushes on the carriage so I started getting a build up of compacted chips on the track right away. Trying to cut in a fine mist of rain doesn't help.

All this will have to wait a bit, in addition to building a sawmill I've decided to make hay for the first time this year so just as last month was dedicated to the sawmill, this month is dedicated to hay gear. I'll update as I go for those interested though.
Belsaw A10 circle mill,

Offline glendaler

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Re: Belsaw build
« Reply #98 on: May 11, 2019, 06:55:51 PM »
 


 

 



 


 


 

 
Belsaw A10 circle mill,

Offline moodnacreek

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Re: Belsaw build
« Reply #99 on: May 11, 2019, 09:34:48 PM »
Glendaler, I don't think you can keep the carriage flat, mine was cambered so that the center missed the track unless loaded in the center. Also dogging logs can spring the carriage. Did we talk about the cable pulleys? From them then cable must pull straight to the carriage on both ends or the side play will be forced one way[carriage rollers] This is important. The off bear skids should be plated solid. You have gone this far but the finishing details always take forever. Hope you get some dry weather, good luck haying, I miss doing that.


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