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Author Topic: Add winch on a Komatsu D65 PX  (Read 1016 times)

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Offline Cruiser_79

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Add winch on a Komatsu D65 PX
« on: February 21, 2019, 05:14:15 AM »
Hi all, 

We have a Komatsu D65 PX on a (future) project, and I'm checking or its possible to install a winch to drag out trees where we can't get with the skidder. Especially after some rain the production of the skidder decreases too much. So to keep the production high as possible I think its better to bring the logs down (or up) to the skidder trails. Than we can bring them to a landing with the skidder.  Please correct me if I'm wrong!

The dozer only has a hitch. I think a mechanical PTO works the best, but I can't find wich winches fit a komatsu dozer. Is it necessary to have a 'winch ready' dozer with a clutch right behind the gearbox or are there winches with a clutch integrated in the winch? 
Or is it better to forget a pto winch and go for a hydraulic one?

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Add winch on a Komatsu D65 PX
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2019, 08:17:30 AM »
I pulled the circular pto coverplate off my D31P-18 once to see about rigging up a pto and was stunned at how puny the shaft was in there.  I have no idea what overpriced unobtanium it takes to go factory winch on mine but i will have no part of it.  If that shaft broke it would drop right in the bevel gear.

I bought a 5ton military truck hydraulic winch for $200 with full spool of cable and probably no hours on it.  Power in/out and freespool.  If its slow, i can wait longer.
Revelation 3:20

Offline Skeans1

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Re: Add winch on a Komatsu D65 PX
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2019, 08:28:40 AM »
Why not get a track skidder or a little Deere with a factory winch arch set up? The track skidder is made for exactly that pulling turns with the sprockets being set more towards center and two idlers vs a rear final with a bearing seal you can crush.

Offline Cruiser_79

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Re: Add winch on a Komatsu D65 PX
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2019, 09:10:30 AM »
Found the Allied winch on the net, probably it is the same as a Hyster winch. Found a video on youtube with an animation, looks like the winch has an integral hydraulic system for the clutch. 

http://www.alliedsystems.com/pdf/winch/forms/86-xxx/86-590.pdf

Just wondering how the hydraulic oil is cooled, there is no tank or cooler in the winch.  

Offline Cruiser_79

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Re: Add winch on a Komatsu D65 PX
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2019, 09:18:35 AM »
Why not get a track skidder or a little Deere with a factory winch arch set up? The track skidder is made for exactly that pulling turns with the sprockets being set more towards center and two idlers vs a rear final with a bearing seal you can crush.
We have to use the dozer for roadworks as well. There isn't any infrastructure in most of the lots so we need quite a serious dozer. We have to build at least 15 km of forest roads before we can start. 
Besides that,  most of the logs are 50-100 cm diameter and >10 m long. We don't want to skid for long distances with the dozer, only steep and bad terrain.  Just drag them to a trail and use the skidder for the longer distance to the landing. When cirumstances are quiete okay we will only use 1 or 2 skidders. 

Offline Brandon1986

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Re: Add winch on a Komatsu D65 PX
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2019, 03:35:01 PM »
I also own a 65.. I just put a bottom on that tractor winter 17'-18'... It was BIG BUCKS.. I sure hope you're not planning on doing too much skidding with that expensive undercarriage :-\.. 

Offline Cruiser_79

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Re: Add winch on a Komatsu D65 PX
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2019, 03:44:51 PM »
I also own a 65.. I just put a bottom on that tractor winter 17'-18'... It was BIG BUCKS.. I sure hope you're not planning on doing too much skidding with that expensive undercarriage :-\..

@Brandon; do you have a winch on that 65?

Machines were rent to a company first, and the idiots skidded a lot with the dozer.... Sprockets and chain looks quite okay but we sure dont want to travel too much with it. The Guys who rented the machines also screwed final drives of the excavators with unnecessary travelling.


Offline longtime lurker

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Re: Add winch on a Komatsu D65 PX
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2019, 05:00:50 PM »
Undercarriage is cheap for what it does. The only time its expensive is when you don't run a maintenance budget for your equipment and get caught short. I used to have a separate account for dozer maintenance and 20% of revenue from the dozers went into that account.... IMHO you can draw a budget on dozers better than any other machine.... 2200 hours to undercarriage, 5k hours to finals brakes and clutches, 10k hours to engine/convertor/trans, frame replacement at 40k hours. Looks sandy soil, up your rate to allow for new shoes sooner. etc. I made money out of bulldozers, but a lot of that was we maintained them at good to go standard and didnt run things to fail.

You need to make sure you're getting a logging winch not a recovery winch: different line speeds. I'd be looking at the hydraulic options rather than gear driven: just easier. Or finding  the back half of a grapple skidder to tow about if its only irregular use (and doing a real connection not just a drawbar) P's aren't the best logging dozer also.... no swampy is. The longer dead axles on a swampy are always a weak point however I will say that komatsu are not as bad as cat in that respect.
The quickest way to make a million dollars with a sawmill is to start with two million.

Offline Riwaka

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Re: Add winch on a Komatsu D65 PX
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2019, 07:51:53 PM »
Tendency is to use the EX with 22 inch shoes rather than 30 inch shoes and tall grouser bars in soft dirt.



Depends what the trees are like how you approach it.

Shovel  with winch system. If the the shovel has a good enough heel that can be used to dig out tree stumps quicker than a dozer or at least loosen them up.
Summit Attachments & Machinery ? Welcome
Shovel with carriage (probably better than a tong tosser)


Probably room in there somewhere for a smart yoder/ traction assist / winch shovel hybrid machine.

timbermax winch assist on 'road builder' for skidder  (chained up skidder)




Offline Brandon1986

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Re: Add winch on a Komatsu D65 PX
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2019, 04:59:23 PM »
I also own a 65.. I just put a bottom on that tractor winter 17'-18'... It was BIG BUCKS.. I sure hope you're not planning on doing too much skidding with that expensive undercarriage :-\..

@Brandon; do you have a winch on that 65?

Machines were rent to a company first, and the idiots skidded a lot with the dozer.... Sprockets and chain looks quite okay but we sure dont want to travel too much with it. The Guys who rented the machines also screwed final drives of the excavators with unnecessary travelling.
No we have and need a ripper on ours.. We don't have any use for a winch, all the logging we do is with our old Clark 668 or with excavators forwarding a couple hundred feet to the log truck.  

Offline Brandon1986

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Re: Add winch on a Komatsu D65 PX
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2019, 05:14:33 PM »
Undercarriage is cheap for what it does. The only time its expensive is when you don't run a maintenance budget for your equipment and get caught short. I used to have a separate account for dozer maintenance and 20% of revenue from the dozers went into that account.... IMHO you can draw a budget on dozers better than any other machine.... 2200 hours to undercarriage, 5k hours to finals brakes and clutches, 10k hours to engine/convertor/trans, frame replacement at 40k hours. Looks sandy soil, up your rate to allow for new shoes sooner. etc. I made money out of bulldozers, but a lot of that was we maintained them at good to go standard and didnt run things to fail.

You need to make sure you're getting a logging winch not a recovery winch: different line speeds. I'd be looking at the hydraulic options rather than gear driven: just easier. Or finding  the back half of a grapple skidder to tow about if its only irregular use (and doing a real connection not just a drawbar) P's aren't the best logging dozer also.... no swampy is. The longer dead axles on a swampy are always a weak point however I will say that komatsu are not as bad as cat in that respect.
It's cheap for what it does... if you're hossing 5 or 6 yards of gravel with every push.  That big dude will get a LOT of work done in the 3500 hours a bottom last on ours (I have a 65EX so is slightly different).. However when you burn up a $30,000 undercarriage, (I don't remember for sure but that number rings a bell) skidding logs in place of what a skidder will do on a set of $3000 a piece tires that last a lot longer in that duty than the tracks.  That gets expensive doing a what.... $75hr task with a $250 an hour tractor.. 
I'll add just for the fun of it.... unless that dozer is older than I'm thinking that tractor doesn't have steering clutches and brakes.. One of the things I love about that dozer is that it doesn't brake a track to steer it speeds up the outside track.. It will also counter rotate in neutral.. Our 65EX might be my favorite dozer ever.. We hooked it back to back with a 6R a few years back and ran away with the 6R, but I digress.. 
Ditto on the logging winch if you're going to do it..  

Offline Skeans1

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Re: Add winch on a Komatsu D65 PX
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2019, 11:01:22 PM »
@Brandon1986 
30k for an undercarriage? Dealer must of seen you guys coming, even our true forestry equipment is cheaper then that. And 3500 hours is a short life our last on on the high track skidder was over 5k with a fixed grapple which is harder on undercarriages youre always bouncing off of stumps to get a turn.

Offline Brandon1986

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Re: Add winch on a Komatsu D65 PX
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2019, 11:20:01 PM »
Well.... most forestry rails have 3 chains per rail, soooo longer life should be expected..

Alaska takes quite a bit of shipping cost so dont forget to take that into account, we didnt buy from the dealer we shopped around and that was the cheapest for the quality we wanted..

The silt up here is super fine and super abrasive so yeah they do wear pretty quick..

Weve put about 5000 hours on ours since we bought it in 99 and put 2 bottoms on it in that time so weve learned at least twice that its pretty costly...  Our 200 Hitachis are 24k without pads.. I know a D10 that a buddy of mine put a bottom on at the tune of $70k a few years ago.. Things are just pricy..

All that said you might see why I tend to be cautious about using expensive equipment to do cheap jobs..

Offline Brandon1986

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Re: Add winch on a Komatsu D65 PX
« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2019, 10:49:42 AM »
Correction, I stumbled on the ppwk for the bottom on our 65.. It was $15k for a complete bottom. 30K must have been for the CAT 8R I looked at..

Offline Cruiser_79

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Re: Add winch on a Komatsu D65 PX
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2019, 07:17:59 AM »
Will a Allied Winch W6G fit a Komatsu D65PX? 
This table from Allied says it will, but I found it in the archive. In the spec sheet of current production is written that only the hydraulic, H6H will fit. 

This one is published in 2013; 

http://www.alliedsystems.com/pdf/Winch/Forms/86-xxx/superseded/86-511-20130920.pdf

This is the spec sheet of the current production;
http://www.alliedsystems.com/pdf/Winch/Forms/86-xxx/86-511.pdf 

I found somewhere on the internet a used W6G with this serial number;


 


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