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Author Topic: Whatcha All think About This ??  (Read 4844 times)

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Offline Fla._Deadheader

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All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Offline Buzz-sawyer

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Re: Whatcha All think About This ??
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2005, 09:17:18 PM »
Better keep antying up though............... :D :D :D
    HEAR THAT BLADE SING!

Offline Jeff

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Re: Whatcha All think About This ??
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2005, 09:52:34 PM »
Living in the country of your choosing should not be a free ride.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life.
Ezekiel 22:30

Offline CHARLIE

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Re: Whatcha All think About This ??
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2005, 12:19:01 AM »
No, it shouldn't be a free ride but "Joe Citizen" deserves better than to be continually taxed more and more by governments that can't be fiscally responsible.  To me, a tax is a tax is a tax. It matters not if the tax I'm paying is a Federal Tax, a State Tax, a County Tax or a City Tax. I don't care if it's a Sales Tax, or a Fuel Tax or an Income Tax.......it is all coming out of the same pocket.  Add up all the different taxes you pay and then calulate the percentage of your gross income. You will be shocked.

Have you ever wondered how much money the Federal I.R.S. uses just to collect taxes? Have you ever wondered how many billions of dollars they spend to write the complicated code, publish and print all the forms and instructions, warehouse and mailing costs of all this paper, all the full time and part time employees required to collect taxes and on and on and on and on.  It is my belief that a flat tax would be fair and could reduce the size of the I.R.S. by about 90%.  Just by doing so, the U.S. would save billions of dollars just in cost avoidance.

Will it ever happen?  Probably not.  First, the I.R.S. wants to save their jobs and continue their "power".  Also, too many people make their living off of the complications of our tax process, like accountants and lawyers.

Charlie
"Everybody was gone when I arrived but I decided to stick around until I could figure out why I was there !"

Offline Dan_Shade

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Re: Whatcha All think About This ??
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2005, 12:22:54 AM »
a big part of economics that is hard to get a handle on is are we better off with gov't spending.  sure it's wasteful, and sure high taxes tick me off, but we may all be better off becuase of some parts of gov't spending. 
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lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

Offline CHARLIE

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Re: Whatcha All think About This ??
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2005, 12:48:04 AM »
Huh?  Better off  because of Guv'ment spending?  Now I know there has to be a certain amount of spending but they don't have to scratch every itch that comes along. I would appreciate it very much if they could stay within a reasonable budget and quit raising it every year.  Dan, I just don't understand your logic. Sorry about that. ::)
Charlie
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Offline Arthur

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Re: Whatcha All think About This ??
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2005, 04:49:17 AM »
Charlie

I have to agree with you and raise your bid.

I have worked and lived all over the world and seen many tax systems.

Taxation cost and the money comes out of the pocket of the worker.

Tax is however the only way to raise money to run the country.

You either need to get rid of the governments and remove tax or just certain parts of it.

If you remove ALL income tax the worker will have more money in their pocket to spend creating more work for products to buy.  By having tax on sales you can raise all the money you need as long as those with money spend.  A heavy tax should be put on savings to encourage those with money to spend it.

Time to party.  Those who have losts of money get hammered if they dont spend.  Its the sort of job most people would enjoy.  having to work hard at spending money.

arthur

Offline Dan_Shade

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Re: Whatcha All think About This ??
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2005, 07:12:57 AM »
economics works on the circular flow of money.  if everybody is "rich", yet nobody "spends", we all suffer the effects of a bad economy.

taxing and gov't spending helps insure the flow of money.  my complaint is how much they take, how they take it, and how you can get out of it if you have the proper scenario.  Most of us don't have many problems spending on our own, I certainly don't.  I guess my point earlier was gov't spending can help avoid and/or offset recessions and depressions.  Gov't spending plans got us out of the depression in the late 30's and early 40's, with WW2 pushing it over the top.

Arthur, actually, those with money in a bank, their money is being spent.  that's where bank loans come from.


Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

Offline bull

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Re: Whatcha All think About This ??
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2005, 07:42:25 AM »
yup it works  :D  The rich get rich and the poor get poorer !! And we the middle class get dizzy swing our head from side to side figuring out which pocket  Uncle Sam is going to pick next....  Whats sad is we have the fairest gov't in the world ???????   Oh and I haven't seen a Tank, APC , or other military vehicle drive down my road for an awful long time... also the blackout curtains were removed from the schools a few years back..... All in All I guess we will be living with it.....  Remeber to get out and VOTE ! You can try to make a difference. ???

Offline crtreedude

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Re: Whatcha All think About This ??
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2005, 10:49:58 AM »
If you really want to see an interesting thing, imagine a taxation system like this.

A questionaire is sent to everyone making an income - if you don't make money, you can not vote on this. The following is the questionaire.

1. What percentage of taxes do you feel is fair? These results will be tallied up and the percentage applied across the board.

2. The following is a list of areas you would like your tax dollars applied to. Please put the percentage of your tax dollars you would like applied to each of these areas.

A. Law enforcement and services like ambulances, fire stations, etc.
B. Foreign Aid
C. Welfare
D. Unemployeement / Retraining of displaced workers.
E. Money for Politicians. (bet that one ends up being low)
F. Roads and infrastructure
G. National Defense

I am sure I am overlooking some, but you get the idea.

The tax paper puts down what they want to spend THEIR money on. Then, the government has to spend it that way - and there will be a citizen audit committee to enforce it.

I know a church that did this - the percentage was higher than before (I don't mind giving, but it irritates me to have it taken) but applied very differently than those in power imagined. Much better to my point of view.

An interesting thing also, is in the early days of this country (if I remember correctly), if you weren't an owner of land or a business, you weren't allowed to vote. I am not sure I would go that far, but I sure dislike the idea of a bunch of deadbeats deciding that I need to give more.

just my dos colones,

So, how did I end up here anyway?

Offline Brad_S.

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Re: Whatcha All think About This ??
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2005, 12:36:38 PM »
I never realized how much money is taken in taxes until I became self employed. It was one thing to have a gob of money taken out of my pay check, I never really had it so I didn't miss it. It's quite another when now, as self employed, I have the money in hand and have to send it to them.
WOW :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :(
If everyone received the wake up call like I did, I think there would be a huge uprising!
Certainly some money needs to be collected and sent to fund the government, but the waste in all levels of government has got to stop.
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans." J. Lennon

Offline Buzz-sawyer

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Re: Whatcha All think About This ??
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2005, 12:58:19 PM »
Has anyone here ever calculated how many times you are TAXED from the time you earn a bucktill it goes full circle..........First state , federal.then local taxes, sales taxes SIN taxes(Beer).....hunting taxes (IMposed on certain sporting goods) Luxury item taxes.....then what ya sqeezed through all those taxes........over half is taken away if ya have the nerve to die....thats NOT helping to support a Nation that unjust usery..........
Buzz

"
If we do nothing, our children and grandchildren can expect to pay 84% of their income in taxes. It's called "Tax-Creep", that will continue to grow unless we stop it now! This "beast that must be fed" is the Internal Revenue Code. It's like a drug to the politicans that the Gucci Gulch crowd sells them, and almost every one of them are hooked.

These supposed elected servants will continue to "Tiptoe Through The Tax code Tinkering Tango" unless voters wise-up. The music sounds nice, but you're dancing with two left feet. Did you know that there have been over 6,000 changes to the IRC just since 1986? Is it less confusing, less intrusive, or less abusive?

The latest example of "tax code manipulation" is the $792 Billion tax cut package. If you happen to be a "tackle box" manufacturer in Speaker Hastert's district...you get a tax cut. I wonder how much re-election money he was paid to have that jewel added?

Ah... the Infernal, Eternal, Incomprehensibale, "Internal Revenue Code"--It has grown from a "FLAT INCOME TAX" of 14 pages in 1914, that only the rich had to deal with, to over 2,000 pages of law, 6,000 pages of regulations, and hundreds of thousands of pages of rulings and interpretations that we ALL have to deal with. It is 14 times thicker than the Bible and fills a whole bookshelf!"

Source:Free Republic

    HEAR THAT BLADE SING!

Offline beenthere

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Re: Whatcha All think About This ??
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2005, 01:28:54 PM »
And Buzz, 'they're' not about to even consider putting all those tax-related accountants and lawyers out of work. That is a major hurdle to getting back to a simple flat tax on income earned. Drop all the deductions. Just a simple flat tax.
Pres. Regan touted going with a 10% rate that would bring in so much money, it could be dropped from there.
Unfortunately, never happen.

Still the best country in the world to live, IMO.
south central Wisconsin
 It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Offline Buzz-sawyer

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Re: Whatcha All think About This ??
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2005, 01:34:30 PM »
Well sure its tops.......BUT lets make it BETTER :) :)
    HEAR THAT BLADE SING!

Offline Stan

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Re: Whatcha All think About This ??
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2005, 02:15:01 PM »
Since Congress uses the income tax to conduct Social experimentation you'll never get them to go to some kind of flat tax. How'd they do that? Well to encourage savings they invented IRAs of various kinds. To encourage home ownership they invented the deduction on interest payments. To discourage the above all they gotta do in eliminate the deduction.
I may have been born on a turnip truck, but I didn't just fall off.

Offline crtreedude

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Re: Whatcha All think About This ??
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2005, 02:38:41 PM »
That is very true, the tax code is used to manipulate you into doing what the government thinks is best. As though politicians could be consider moral by any stretch.

The truth is, the tax code is being used to reward those who give the politicians money. And it also is being used to engineer society for whoever funds the politicians.

Not to cause a fight here - but Buzz-sawyer and beenthere, how many countries have you lived in? Is it a matter of faith that the USA is the best country in the world?  I used to think that the USA was great - until I traveled more.  You would not believe the respect I am given here in Costa Rica for providing jobs and a better life. In the USA people just assumed I got where I am by some lucky break (which isn't true). I take care of the people who work for me here, and they take care of me.  Buzz-sawyer, when was the last time one of your employees made sure you were happy? It happens to me here all the time. They understand that it is a little challenging to live as a foreigner in another country so they look for ways to make us happy and feel welcome.

Aside from power and economic clout, there isn't a whole lot of lists that the USA is on the top of - forget education which is the future. I love the USA a lot and didn't leave because I disliked living there, but I am not pleased on the direction it has been taking.  One example for you, little Costa Rica has a higher literacy rate and life expectancy than the USA.  When I walk the streets of Ciudad Quesada in the evening, all of the night schools are packed with students, instead of the street corners.

I am not saying by the way that Costa Rica is better than the USA, I am just saying that the rest of the world does have some things on right that the USA could learn from. I don't think the USA will change until the people wake up to the fact that they are slowly but surely being sold down the river.

just my dos colones which is worth a lot less than 2 cents.  ;)

So, how did I end up here anyway?

Offline Buzz-sawyer

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Re: Whatcha All think About This ??
« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2005, 04:14:54 PM »
America does not need my defense, so I will keep it brief.

I love the history of my nation................that has value to me .........I am a student of world history...the role we have played has been pinacle in the progress of the modern age and the worlds freedom.

      America is INCREDIBLY diverse...many parts of the country people WILL sit and TALK to ya and care for you.........ask TOM.
I have neighbors that are kind EVEN in Illinois. :o
Western culture is VASTLY different than New Jersey.....I have friends in the Dakotas , Oregon and Washington that live A  life much like the East coast may of had 70 years ago........And westerners KEEP politicians in check most of the time.
I am Glad you enjoy Latin America....however, I WILL remain in love with and loyal to  my home........I have traveled out of the States numerous times, interacted with many dozens of missionaries from every concievable corner of the world.
My life experience  isnt soley perocial ( I have been outside the count)
BUT you Do have mangos. Thats gotta count for something :) :)
(This was brief :D :D :D)
    HEAR THAT BLADE SING!

Offline crtreedude

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Re: Whatcha All think About This ??
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2005, 05:15:47 PM »
No contesting your points, and there are NO latin American countries that are in the same league as the USA.  That being said, the companies that I always loved to take on were the ones who assumed they were the best. If you are the best, you don't work at being better.

There are many countries that don't think they are the best who are in the game to compete against the country of my birth. I really don't think we disagree about the qualities that make the USA great - but if there is going to be a bright future, I think the USA needs to forget about being the best now, and work at being the best in the future. Arrogance has a way of taking down the strong.

I rather doubt you would find me much different in what I value and what I don't. I probably will always love the USA and be loyal to her - I am still a citizen and still actively contributing to her welfare, I don't mean just in money.

So, how did I end up here anyway?

Offline Buzz-sawyer

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Re: Whatcha All think About This ??
« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2005, 05:44:32 PM »
Reply #13 on: Today at 12:34:30 PM »     

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well sure its tops.......BUT lets make it BETTER   
    HEAR THAT BLADE SING!

Offline crtreedude

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Re: Whatcha All think About This ??
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2005, 07:44:45 PM »
I would sure agree with that.

So, how did I end up here anyway?


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