The Forestry Forum is sponsored in part by:

iDRY Vacuum Kilns


Forestry Forum
Sponsored by:


TimberKing Sawmills



Toll Free 1-800-582-0470

LogRite Tools



Norwood Industries Inc.




Your source for Portable Sawmills, Edgers, Resaws, Sharpeners, Setters, Bandsaw Blades and Sawmill Parts

EZ Boardwalk Sawmills. More Saw For Less Money!

STIHLDealers.com sponsored by Northeast STIHL


Woodland Sawmills

Peterson Swingmills

 KASCO SharpTech WoodMaxx Blades

Turbosawmill

Sawmill Exchange

Michigan Firewood, your BRUTE FORCE Authorized Dealer

FARMA


Council Tool

Baker Products

ECHO-Bearcat

iDRY Wood Lumber Vacuum Drying for everyon

Baltic Abrasives Technologies Nyle Kiln Dry Systems




Author Topic: Outdoor Wood Boilers....using more than one together...  (Read 6149 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Captain

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2149
  • Age: 50
  • Location: Norton, MA, USA
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Outdoor Wood Boilers....using more than one together...
« on: April 15, 2007, 09:13:23 AM »
We really want to get an outdoor boiler here for the property.  We have been holding off, because we anticipate a new building for shop space and want to buy one to heat that too.  However, the price tag of $10,000 is holding us back at this time.

I was considering the purchase of a smaller unit for the house, and another one later for the new building.  Does anybody have any experience in running them in a series or parallel setup sharing the same water??  I was thinking that one could be used in times of lower demand, and the second one fired when necessary.  Just a question to ponder.

Thanks in advance.

Captain

Offline farmerdoug

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2125
  • Age: 51
  • Location: Fargo, MI USA
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Outdoor Wood Boilers....using more than one together...
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2007, 06:08:38 PM »
Captain,
 I have been pondering the same question since the bioburner was anounced.???
I do not see why you could not connect them together.  But since most outdoor boilers are open systems ie. no pressure, I am sure you would have the close one boiler system tight and pump from the open boiler through the closed boiler treating it just like a line or storage tank.  Then the water would flow back to the open one on the return line as usually. :)

Clear as mud?  Let me know if you need a better explaination. ::)

Farmerdoug
Doug
Truck Farmer/Greenhouse grower
2001 LT40HDD42 Super with Command Control and AccuSet, 42 hp Kubota diesel
Fargo, MI

Offline Daren

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1122
  • Age: 51
  • Location: Central Illinois
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
    • nelsonwoodworks
Re: Outdoor Wood Boilers....using more than one together...
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2007, 06:19:57 PM »
You can tie 2 systems together (or 10). I have put in "boiler packs" that do just what you are talking about. 4 small boilers that fire as needed, that was in big office buildings and such. It just takes a check valve (a valve that only lets water go one way) to stop one boiler from backfeeding the other. I have designed and installed many systems that use the same piping for a boiler and a chiller. They feed the same units (air handling units) That is a little more complicated with control valves and such. Hot water runs through the pipes in cold weather and vice versa.
I am sure your boiler suplier could make you a quick sketch for the best installation and would have the parts you need.
Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

Offline farmerdoug

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2125
  • Age: 51
  • Location: Fargo, MI USA
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Outdoor Wood Boilers....using more than one together...
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2007, 07:04:33 PM »
Daren,

I assume those boiler paks are pressurized sytems?

Most outdoor boilers are open to the atmosphere.  How would you interconnect those boilers without all of the water pumping out of the top of the first boiler?  I think you would have to close one boiler tight and circulate through it.  I am open to better ideas though.

Farmerdoug
Doug
Truck Farmer/Greenhouse grower
2001 LT40HDD42 Super with Command Control and AccuSet, 42 hp Kubota diesel
Fargo, MI

Offline mur

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 94
  • Age: 69
  • Gender: Male
  • I need to edit my profile!
    • Share Post
Re: Outdoor Wood Boilers....using more than one together...
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2007, 07:57:33 PM »
Hi Captain:

Don't know if this helps or not.  I don't know your physical site and heating needs.  My outdoor boiler - Global Hydronics 3000 - made in Canada, has two sets of infeed/outfeeds on it at the back.  Therefore, this large boiler can run two separate systems with one common tank of water.  I only run one system into my kiln and moulding room and blocked off the second infeed/outfeed.  Each system needs its own pump and piping of course.
Don't dream it, be it.

Offline Daren

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1122
  • Age: 51
  • Location: Central Illinois
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
    • nelsonwoodworks
Re: Outdoor Wood Boilers....using more than one together...
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2007, 10:08:40 PM »
Daren,
 How would you interconnect those boilers without all of the water pumping out of the top of the first boiler? 

I will admit I am no outdoor boiler expert (I am a 3rd generation steam fitter/licensed plumber though) Unless I am misunderstanding the question...a check valve on each boiler is still my answer. One on the outlet side of the boiler will only let the water go one way, out into the system. It will not let one boiler pump into another, they are 2 separate units using the same pipe  ???. What you are talking about is another answer too. One boiler is a primary on low demand and preheater on high demand. The second boiler is storage on low demand and "more power" when needed it will fire.
I see about the same amount of controls with either set up. I just think installation would be easier if the were to be put in at different times like Captain is talking about if they were set up separate and isolated with a check valve from each other.
I may be on the wrong track here because of the return piping, but in my mind the boiler that is pumping water will be the one the water returns to. So if only one is running the other is idle/no flow. If they both are running 2x the flow and heat exchange. Without knowing the piping arrangement in this specific case (distances, flows...) I cannot give a better explanation, but worst case scenario maybe a solenoid control valve on the returns that is tied to the circ pump totally isolating the second boiler when not in use? 
Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

Offline Furby

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 7976
  • Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan
  • Gender: Male
  • Blurb....
    • Share Post
Re: Outdoor Wood Boilers....using more than one together...
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2007, 10:20:19 PM »
Well I see a couple problems here.
You would need some heat in the idle unit to keep it from freezing.
But if you were to run only one and pump it through the other keeping it up to temp, you would have a high rate of heat loss at the idle unit.

I'm thinking the two units may be tied together with a large manifold and be able to almost totally close off one unit.
That way there would be a trickle charge so to speak to keep the idle unit warm enough, yet not have a large heat loss by trying to keep that much mass up to temp.

But I really don't know much about these units so this is just talk from me. :)

Offline Daren

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1122
  • Age: 51
  • Location: Central Illinois
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
    • nelsonwoodworks
Re: Outdoor Wood Boilers....using more than one together...
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2007, 10:41:30 PM »
Yea you got me there Furby ::). How much water do they hold? If it is a bunch, you do have a thermal mass problem with an idle boiler. If it is totally isolated when there is a call for extra heat (if there is a large amount of water in the "cold" boiler) there will be a slug of cold water to deal with. And the freeze up I had given no thought to. farmerdougs storage tank second boiler would fix that little problem. If you are only talking a few gallons in the boiler, there is much more water in the system and even the return is not cold just not hot. Good thinking about a small return through the idle boiler, it would not take but a trickle.
Good thing you have all summer to stew on it Captain  :D, surely with enough heads together something will work.
Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

Offline Furby

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 7976
  • Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan
  • Gender: Male
  • Blurb....
    • Share Post
Re: Outdoor Wood Boilers....using more than one together...
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2007, 10:47:05 PM »
They can hold a 75 to a couple hundred gallons I belive.

Offline Mooseherder

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 8356
  • Age: 59
  • Location: Mainely Fl.
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Outdoor Wood Boilers....using more than one together...
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2007, 10:56:57 PM »
Wouldn't 1 Boiler take care of 2 buildings?  How far apart will the buildings be?
Maybe have a backup oil furnace for the house but not the shop.
Lane Circle Mill

Offline farmerdoug

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2125
  • Age: 51
  • Location: Fargo, MI USA
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Outdoor Wood Boilers....using more than one together...
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2007, 12:59:38 PM »
My CB is plated at 794 gallons of water.

This is a very interesting topic.  I am really open to ideas.  I just stated the one that I had centered on first.


Farmerdoug
Doug
Truck Farmer/Greenhouse grower
2001 LT40HDD42 Super with Command Control and AccuSet, 42 hp Kubota diesel
Fargo, MI

Offline Captain

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2149
  • Age: 50
  • Location: Norton, MA, USA
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Outdoor Wood Boilers....using more than one together...
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2007, 04:30:21 PM »
Certainly one unit can heat both buildings, but the second building does not exist yet,  :-[ and I can't justify the $10,000 +/- price tag right now when heating for free with an indoor supplemental force hot air unit.

I would love to move to outdoor heating, but I don't want to throw $6000 into a boiler that will meet my needs now, but not in the future  :)

Online thecfarm

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 28316
  • Age: 57
  • Location: Chesterville,Maine
  • Gender: Male
  • If I don't do it,it don't get done
    • Share Post
Re: Outdoor Wood Boilers....using more than one together...
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2007, 05:16:57 PM »
What kind do you plan on getting?The heatmor that I have bought have blowers on it and it just sits there waiting for the next heat cycle.Why couldn't you set them up independant of each other?One small one like a 2 footer for the house and than another one for the shop.You didn't say how many square feet each building is.I would go to a dealer and run all your ideas by them and see what they have to say.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79


Share via delicious Share via digg Share via facebook Share via linkedin Share via pinterest Share via reddit Share via stumble Share via tumblr Share via twitter

question
Outdoor wood boilers

Started by icefishingrulz on Firewood and Wood Heating

2 Replies
1030 Views
Last post March 23, 2014, 08:53:55 AM
by spyder68
xx
Outdoor wood boilers

Started by delvis on Firewood and Wood Heating

4 Replies
1457 Views
Last post April 01, 2014, 09:26:35 AM
by thecfarm
xx
outdoor wood boilers

Started by bouncer on Firewood and Wood Heating

13 Replies
1373 Views
Last post October 13, 2014, 07:27:51 PM
by bouncer
moved
MOVED: Outdoor wood boilers

Started by chet on Drying and Processing

0 Replies
352 Views
Last post March 18, 2014, 08:38:32 AM
by chet
 


Powered by EzPortal