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Author Topic: Solubor and glycol  (Read 20467 times)

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Offline TexasTimbers

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Re: Solubor and glycol
« Reply #20 on: May 10, 2007, 10:45:19 AM »
Don,

I have read this thread 3 times now. What is my best bet for the Loblolly beam which was felled app 2 months ago then turned into a beam pretty quick thereafter . . and now being right around 26% MC on the outside and much higher inside?

I'm taking your comments to mean you think I should soup up my Timbor with a glycol. I know you said I could do you think I should? If so, should I use EG or PG?

I'm barely hanging in here with you fellas on this topic so keep it stupid fer me :)

I do not believe I need to treat the Bois D' Arc posts. ;D
The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

Offline Ironwood

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Re: Solubor and glycol
« Reply #21 on: May 10, 2007, 11:22:54 AM »
Kevjay,

 Don't feel bad I must have read it 10 times, especially after doing some research and ordering some Solubor. Just like anything, dive in and you learn. Everytime I figure something out I had to go back and reread to better understand.


                     Reid
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

Offline Don P

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Re: Solubor and glycol
« Reply #22 on: May 10, 2007, 06:40:13 PM »
Jeez, I'm a good 'splainer  :D.
I just put the solubor (1-1.5 lbs per gallon of water) and about a quart more or less according to the drying conditions that day per 5 gal batch and soak it repeatedly. I'll check in later, gotta run to the doghouse, the wifes got the book club comin.... ahhh I'm outta here  :D
A laborer works with his hands
A craftsman uses his brain and his hands
An artist uses his brain, his hands, and his heart

Offline Ironwood

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Re: Solubor and glycol
« Reply #23 on: May 10, 2007, 10:29:44 PM »
Don P.

 No problem w/ the explaination just the comprehenion. Until you get your feet wet you are still talking pie in the sky. I picked up the Solubor today and some Poly and Ethy. Evidentally, the old style Ethy is going off the market soon. I understand the toxicity issue and will lean toward Poly. I am concerned about breathing the Ethy as I am working hte material later. This is not for a "static" application, but for palletized wood for furniture. Any further input? What about PEG flakes used for wood stabilizing? I have some of that and a stainless heated vat to melt the flakes into solution. THe vat is too small to soak my wood but would it help the cause to use PEG flakes instead of Poly in RV antifreeze?

 Kevjay,

 As per your earlier comment about critter walking around unscathed, it won't do anything to them until they dig in with their mouths, especially with the Ethy but that comes at a price (toxicity) to everything.  At least that is my understanding, after the 10th reading.  ::)

           Reid
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

Offline Don P

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Re: Solubor and glycol
« Reply #24 on: May 10, 2007, 10:45:53 PM »
 I wish I'da remembered to take a long sleeve shirt down, about got a truss bent welded.

I feel like the glycol helps in my situation and would help in most situations. The moment the moisture content drops below fiber saturation, penetration stops.If the surface begins drying the moisture is heading back out. You just stalled going in. I'll step out on a limb and say that I think it works best with a cell full of water rather than just damp cell walls. That's why I think that anything that slows drying helps it get in. I started my adventure by applying Solubor and water only. By the time I made it back around a cabin it was surface dry, I felt I wasn't getting in. With the glycol I kept a cabin wet for a month. I think I got it to the bone. Nisus does make a dye that reacts with borate, I need to get some and experiment. Anyway, I think Timbor green from the saw would work fine with the suggested dip and wrap method. After that I think glycol can only help.

I've heard a few anecdotal stories that antifreeze helps prevent surface checking. I can see how that could be true. If so then even straight off the saw might be worth thinking about. I've not used propylene glycol or PEG, they are "safe". PEG is used to stabilize wood. The unknown for me is in a more finished product, how well will it glue or accept a fine finish is an unknown to me. Peg is supposedly trouble there. Timbor/water is supposedly ok. I had to resand the TF we're on after Glycol/solubor and before the danish oil. The crystals on the surface showed through the finish otherwise. I can't see any finish problems after a light sand, waterlox seemed to do fine also. For structural wood I say nuke it till it glows. I wish we had more osage, I've got a few that are up to about 2", might be awhile  ;D.
A laborer works with his hands
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An artist uses his brain, his hands, and his heart

Offline Ironwood

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Re: Solubor and glycol
« Reply #25 on: May 10, 2007, 11:27:30 PM »
Don P

 Yes, PEG is an issue when finishing no doubt. The wood will be fully planed and sculpted before putting a finish on. For me the issue seem to mostly be in the cambium layer, I leave it on nearly all wood I mill. This is the GOOD starchy dessert for the little #$%^.  I may try coating just my outer live edges. This would hopefully work as breaking apart stacks of sticked lumber seem VERY unappealing (some of the recent walnut shown earlier in this thread are 400lbs each, I used the crane to stack them back on the pallet after photographing them).

               Reid

 PS. yeah you can get a real good "sunburn" welding in short sleeves, been there done that (Once)
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

Offline TexasTimbers

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Re: Solubor and glycol
« Reply #26 on: May 11, 2007, 10:11:59 AM »
This has been very informative. I still have a couple questions but they are semantics more than anything. I have the big picture I believe.

Gotta agree with y'all on the shirt sleeves. I installed a 320' x 4' steel retaining wall in 2002 for a customer and made the sections up in a buddy's shop (mine wasn't built yet) and one of my hands refused to wear a helmet! He was using one of those half face cutting masks. I kept telling him he was going to get fried and he kept saying no I got it under control. I did everything but physially force him and finally Jimmy said "Let 'im learn Kev so he'll never forget." SO I shutup about it and never gave no more thought.
The next day he called and said he counldn't come to work he wasn't feeling to well. Come dinner time I slipped on over to his house unannounced and sure enough he has 2nd and 3rd degree burns on his face everywhere the mask wasn't covering. He looked like a bright red raccoon with blisters. He was absolutely miserable and needed hospitalization in my estimation but of course would not go. His remedy was to stay drunk.
Turns out the moron thought I was trying to tell him he was going to get hit by sparks, and not that the ultraviolet light was cooking him. I just took for granted he knew enough to know that welding creates a little ball of sun at your fingertips but he was dumber than I thought.
He could not work for a week. He only lasted a couple weeks after that I finally had to let him go, he required constant supervision.
I weld way too often with short sleeves myself. It doesn't cook as bad with these hairy arms but still it ain't smart.
The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

Offline PineNut

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Re: Solubor and glycol
« Reply #27 on: May 11, 2007, 09:50:29 PM »
I tried using the borates without glycol but gave it up. Without glycol, the surface dries very quickly and crystals form on the surface. If they are on the surface, they are not in the lumber and are not doing any good. If you kept the surface wet for a period, I expect the borates would eventually move in the lumber, but it is a pain to keep the lumber wet. Also with the borates only, crystals will form in the sprayer very quickly, sometimes in less than an hour.

With the glycol, I find that the surface stays wet much longer. Also no crystals are left on the surface.  Also the life of the working solution is much longer. Bora-care says that the 1:1,  1:2  & 1:3  mixtures are good for 24 hours and 1:5 is good for 30 days. I have left 1:1 in the sprayer for a week or more without any problems.   

After trying both processes, I will stick with the glycol. I donít think that the cost is much more considering the chemical that moves into the wood. And with the labor factor, the glycol is the best method for me.


Offline brdmkr

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Re: Solubor and glycol
« Reply #28 on: May 13, 2007, 12:19:05 AM »
You guys hae me concerned with all the talk of 'sanding'.  I was aiming to treat and seal withone of the water sealers.  A friend has suggested a product called perma chink.  I am picking up the solubor Monday.  I really don't guess it matters wheter it has to be sanded or not.  I have to treate it or it will be eaten :o
Lucas 618  Mahindra 4110, FEL and pallet forks, some cant hooks, and a dose of want-to

Offline Ironwood

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Re: Solubor and glycol
« Reply #29 on: May 13, 2007, 12:28:57 AM »
Perma Chink is (to my knowlege) just a chinking for in between the logs. It is a great brand and a good product for that. Perhaps they are offering a wood treatment as well. I think Hess Log home suppply in central Pa. supplies one of the estates I deal with. They do get a log treatment from Hess but I am not sure if it is the Perma Chink brand or another, I know they get their chinking in a Perma Chink brand.

               Reid
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

Offline brdmkr

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Re: Solubor and glycol
« Reply #30 on: May 30, 2007, 09:55:59 PM »
I thought I would provide an update.  I treated the inside of the shop today.  I used solubor and EG.  I mixed an awful amout of solubor/3gallons of water while heating.  I did not boil, but I am convinced that I created a super-satureated solution.  I then used about a quart of EG in 3 gallons of mix.  The first batch, I may have made a little light as I used a quart jar of solubor/gallon of water.  I don't know where I got that idea, but solubor is REALLY light.  So, I went with the super-saturation approach after.  I used more like 2 - 3 quart jars/gallon of water.

Some observations

1. Given I just finished bleaching to get rid of mold, I can say that the EG really does keep the wood wet MUCH longer.

2.  I did NOT observe white crystals.  Did I do something wrong (I wet the wood to the point of run off).

3.  Once the wood was dry to the touch the EG smell was gone.

Now, I'll just have to sit back and see if it worked.  Thanks to all who provided input.
Lucas 618  Mahindra 4110, FEL and pallet forks, some cant hooks, and a dose of want-to

Offline PineNut

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Re: Solubor and glycol
« Reply #31 on: May 30, 2007, 10:21:12 PM »
Brdmkr, with the glycol, I donít think you will get the white crystals, which I consider an advantage. This means the boron is going into the wood rather than forming crystals on the surface. I have not observed any crystals when using glycol but had a lot of trouble when not using the glycol.

Offline brdmkr

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Re: Solubor and glycol
« Reply #32 on: May 30, 2007, 10:48:24 PM »
Thanks for the update on the EG.  I wondered if I had mixed it stout enough as I did not weight the solubor.  I just kept putting it in until it started settling out of solution.
Lucas 618  Mahindra 4110, FEL and pallet forks, some cant hooks, and a dose of want-to

Offline jrkimroxie

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Re: Solubor and glycol
« Reply #33 on: July 19, 2012, 01:11:02 PM »
Has anyone ever build a trough/vat to dip lumber/wood into. I'm treating 6"x12" cants for my log home and dipping would seem to insure total coverage. Any input is appreciated since I'm
finished sawing and am starting see powderpost signs.
Loving life 1 log at a time !!!!

Offline Den Socling

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Re: Solubor and glycol
« Reply #34 on: July 19, 2012, 03:30:02 PM »
How fancy do you want to get? I've seen wood troughs lined with plastic and I've seen stainless steel vats with forks that dipped a whole pack of lumber at a time.

Offline beenthere

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Re: Solubor and glycol
« Reply #35 on: July 19, 2012, 04:41:06 PM »
And the vat is the "easy" part, compared to the trick of immersing the timber and removing it to drain the excess back into the vat. And I mean "easy" with tongue-in-cheek, but have helped buld a vat for dipping siding boards that was along the idea Den mentioned - - a wood trough/vat lined with plastic.

Transferring chemical in an out of the vat needs to be considered in the design. A drip rack of some sort will help capture excess solution.
south central Wisconsin
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Offline Ironwood

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Re: Solubor and glycol
« Reply #36 on: July 19, 2012, 10:03:38 PM »
I would try plastic pipe (BIG) plastic pipe.

Ironwood
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

Offline jrkimroxie

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Re: Solubor and glycol
« Reply #37 on: July 19, 2012, 11:36:52 PM »
I was thinking of a wooden vat 18"wide x 18"deep x 20' long. I could submerged 2 - 6"x12"x18' cants side x side using my front end loader and chains. Let them sit a few hours, then dip another pair. My main concern is "the correct mixing ratio & how often to strengthen or replace the dip.
Loving life 1 log at a time !!!!

Offline beenthere

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Re: Solubor and glycol
« Reply #38 on: July 20, 2012, 12:04:07 AM »
Just might be you can use a hydrometer to determine the change in density of the solution, and add strength to bring it back to what you started with. That would be after you have the recipe for the beginning mix.
south central Wisconsin
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Offline Sixacresand

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Re: Solubor and glycol
« Reply #39 on: August 29, 2012, 09:43:05 PM »
I have not looked anywhere but Walmart, But where do you get Propolene glycol antifreeze?  Also is solubor the same as 20 mule team borax at the grocery store?  Who carries 50# bags of Solubor?  never seen it at the farm stores. 
    I was on board to buy boric acid power or granulated to mix with Borax from the grocery store to make  preservative.  This was based on a Navy recipe I saw on the internet.    I also plan to build a plastic line wooden vat with a metal roofing drain board. 

I have the 5/4 lumber stack/drying for the floor of a porch.  My plan is to plane it to 1", soak it in the vat (no need to treat shavings), dry again, then paint both sides with floor and deck paint.  That ought to last the rest of my life   :D



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