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Author Topic: LT-15 Diesel vs. 25HP (now vs. 19hp diesel on TK1220)  (Read 10112 times)

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Offline Piston

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LT-15 Diesel vs. 25HP (now vs. 19hp diesel on TK1220)
« on: May 16, 2009, 10:44:36 PM »
I searched a bit on the forum and there are a few topics about the LT-15 diesel but I was wondering if anyone has one that they have put considerable use on? 

Do they seem hard to start in the colder weather?  I know some diesels are a bear to start in the winter but I don't know if the smaller ones are the same? 

I know they are 10hp yanmars now for the diesel and i want to compare it to the 25hp gas that WM is offering, they are pretty much the same price and I'm a fan of diesel engines over gas, but being such a small engine I'm wondering which would go better for the LT-15?

Even though the diesel has more torque, do you think that the extra 15hp of the gas would make up for that? 

I'm interested in the difference between the two as far as which would saw larger logs quicker and bog down less?
I'm not really interested in the fuel difference or price difference between fuels, I wouldn't be doing enough sawing on a LT-15 for that to make enough of a difference anyways. 

Hope someone with some experience with both will be able to comment but any experience is appreciated.  I think I will be buying one hopefully before winter and have done quite a bit of homework on them, just don't know too much about the different engines.
Thanks in advance.  ;D
-Matt
What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race.

Offline zopi

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Re: LT-15 Diesel vs. 25HP
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2009, 11:01:16 PM »
I've got the G-15, and am quite happy with it...I have been told by a couple of people that the diesel is the bees knees...said it sips fuel, and cuts steady all day with no issues...

If I ever repower this mill I'll probably go with a diesel....
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Re: LT-15 Diesel vs. 25HP
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2009, 05:04:14 AM »
 On my B20 TK  I switched from a 27 hp Kohler to a 28 hp Isuzu diesel which cuts way faster and uses 1/2 the fuel.  I think I'd have to give the edge to a 25hp gas over a 10 hp diesel, I'd think a 18 to 20 hp diesel should compare well.   Steve
Timberking B20 14000 hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Offline Piston

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Re: LT-15 Diesel vs. 25HP
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2009, 05:26:20 AM »
I'm surprised they don't offer a bit larger diesel?  I wonder if its because of weight on the smaller frame?  I'd be interested to know what the production estimates are for the two, I don't think its listed on the website but even if it was I know there are too many variables to take into account to use that as a great estimate.....I'll try emailing WM and see what info I get in return.
-Matt
What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race.

Offline amberwood

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Re: LT-15 Diesel vs. 25HP
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2009, 06:33:22 AM »
they do..there should be a 20hp watercooled diesel avail for the LT15. I used one last year at Indi. Buckets of torque.

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Offline MartyParsons

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Re: LT-15 Diesel vs. 25HP
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2009, 08:55:32 AM »
There is a 19 hp Diesel on the LT15 but it will not meet US emission standards. They are sold international.
The Authorized sales center in Maine sells many LT15 Diesel maybe give them a call. We have a few units sold here and never had a complaint on cold starts etc. They are easy on fuel. A little noise a little vibration but not a big deal. Lots of variables on production.
Fuel rating per hour G15  .5   G25 .9   D 10   .2
The Diesel is 19 lbs lighter than the G25
The 25 hp also has a 5 gal fuel tank external mounted with water bottle.
The Deisel has a small tank on the engine
Marty


A pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees opportunity in every difficulty. -Winston Churchill

Offline Don K

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Re: LT-15 Diesel vs. 25HP
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2009, 12:04:29 PM »
Sawmill and Woodlot magazine did a review of the LT 15 with the 10hp yanmar back in 2007 I think. A fella that teaches a forestry type training program for school students did extensive cutting with it and wrote a fine review. I hear it is the cat's meow. I bet it will outcut my 10 hp gas all day. Click on the sponsor link at left and email them and they may possibly have a back issue.

Don
Lucky to own a WM LT40HDD35, blessed to have a wife that encouraged me to buy it.     Now that\'s true love!
Massey Ferguson 1547 FWD with FEL  06 GMC Sierra 2500HD 4X4 Dozer Retriever Husky 359 20\" Bar  Man, life is getting good!

Offline fishpharmer

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Re: LT-15 Diesel vs. 25HP
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2009, 05:32:09 PM »
Don K, good suggestion, I did a search on the S & W mag website and up came a link to a pdf of that article.  Should be here;

http://sawmillmag.com/results.php?cx=partner-pub-5872599457555391%3A3hnit1-5sml&cof=FORID%3A9&ie=UTF-8&q=LT15+diesel&sa=Search#1040
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The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls looking like hard work. --Tom A. Edison

Offline Piston

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Re: LT-15 Diesel vs. 25HP
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2009, 10:50:58 PM »
I just read the sawmill and woodlot article on the LT-15 and it sounded good, seems like it doesn't bog down too much and only needs slow feeding on the really large logs.  I'm wondering how it compares to the 25hp gas in that respect.  Too bad they didn't have a chance to run it in the cold....

I emailed WM and asked them as well, hopefully I'll hear from them Monday. 

Too bad that 19hp diesel isn't available in the U.S......I bet that wouldn't bog down on anything you could fit on the mill with a sharp blade....
Wish I was planning on keeping it in one place, the electric motor sounds like a nice option too....
-Matt
What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race.

Offline ScottAR

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Re: LT-15 Diesel vs. 25HP
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2009, 02:00:22 AM »
The only thing I'm half way qualified to comment on is the starting
a yanmar  in cold weather...  Our "Yan" deere tractor starts first try
at around 15 and above....  Colder than that I don't start so that's
been a non issue....   It has a intake heater but it's not really required. 
Scott
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Offline Piston

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Re: LT-15 Diesel vs. 25HP
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2009, 03:59:55 AM »
Do you think this engine would have a heater/glow plugs?  I was thinking it wouldn't.  and yes, i would be stupid enough to be out there in 15 degrees.... :D :D
-Matt
What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race.

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Re: LT-15 Diesel vs. 25HP
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2009, 05:35:26 AM »
 

 My 28 hp Isuze pops right off at 10 above with glow plugs, if they don't work it won't start at 70 above. It saws twice as fast as the Kohler 27 hp I had before but I can still bog it if pushed hard enough.  Steve
Timberking B20 14000 hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Online thecfarm

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Re: LT-15 Diesel vs. 25HP
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2009, 08:17:12 AM »
I talked to Ross,on the other side of town,the WM dealer in Maine and he sells very few gas motors with that sawmill.I could not remember what size he mentioned until Marty confirmed it.Must come with glow plugs.
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Offline Don K

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Re: LT-15 Diesel vs. 25HP
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2009, 11:21:23 AM »
With the torque a diesel puts out, I wouldn't be afraid to guess that the diesel would cut as good or even better than the 25 gas. Cheaper to run too. I can use a coupla tanks on a heavy day of big logs on my 15 gas. The diesel would probably use half that. Wish I could say from experience.

Don
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Offline Piston

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Re: LT-15 Diesel vs. 25HP
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2009, 08:46:38 PM »
Thanks for all the posts guys, I'll also give the dealer in Maine a call and see if I could find some people who run a diesel from them when I get around to it. 
For now I'm leaning towards the diesel...
MartyParsons, thanks for those specs on the fuel and weight, I know I said the fuel difference would be insignificant but that really is a huge difference, more than I thought! 
Also guys thanks for the links and all the other info everyone has posted, I certainly take into account all your opinions knowing you all have plenty of experience!  Hopefully I'll end up getting the diesel LT-15 before winter and I'll be able to post what I think about it. 

I heard back from WM today and here is what they had to say.....

Matt,
 Thank you for your interest in Wood-Mizer Products. Since the LT15 is not a production mill, we do not have any information concerning production. However, our catalog states it will saw 'up to' 175 board feet per hour, depending on size and length of log, species, and operator efficiency among others. The 10 hp Yanmar diesel is $1,082.00 more ($6,982.00 total) than the 15 hp Kohler gas, and the same price as the 25 hp Kohler gas. It would be equivalant to a 20 hp gas. Our website: www.woodmizer.com lists a specification sheet on our sawmills, which includes information on most of our engines. When you have an opportunity, please call me for more detailed information.



 
-Matt
What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race.

Offline Piston

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Re: LT-15 Diesel vs. 25HP
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2009, 08:51:43 PM »
In case your interested in my email to him, this is what I wrote (it's rather long)

Hello,
I have been researching as much as I can over the last year or so trying to make a decision on which mill to buy.  I am planning on buying a mill before winter time and my final decisions came down to either your LT-15 or the Timberking 1220.  I am planning on using the mill for simple hobby work and small timberframing projects, and if I catch the "bug" would possibly upgrade, but that is too far down the road!
I have some questions about the diesel engine available for the LT-15.  I have decided that whichever mill I go with I will want the largest power option available.  I prefer diesel engines to gas for they're reliability, longevity, ease of maintenance and repair (more comfortable working on diesel engines than gas) as well as fuel efficiency, although on an engine as small as these I am not concerned with fuel efficiency as I do not believe it will be enough of a difference to choose one over the other.
Could you tell me some more about the 10hp diesel versus the 25hp gas engines you offer?  I have looked for hours online and on forums and can't seem to find much on the diesel as far as production goes.  Everyone who has the 25hp gas engine is happy with it and glad they bought the larger engine, as I'm sure I would be.  I know diesels typically put out more torque than gas however, I can't see a 10hp diesel putting out more torque than a 25hp gas?  I am looking for the pro's and con's of each, which engine would outperform the other in larger wood of the same species?  Which one would tend to bog down more and give less consistent sawing rates?  Has the diesel had problems starting in the cold like many do?  I have never had a small diesel like that.  I want to know which engine would be better for me, I live in New England and will be sawing through the winter.  I understand the price is the same so that makes the decision even harder!  I would love the diesel engine over the gas however, if the gas will outperform it and start easier then I would definately go that route.  Do you have any production rates to compare the two?  Like I said I would like to know which would be better for the larger logs as far as bogging down (obviously I expect to have to slow down with either on large cuts)
Thank you so much for your info, I look forward to seeing what you have to say about all my questions.  Please let me know if you need any more info from me as far as which would fit my needs better.  I have read a lot about your customer service and that is why I'm leaning towards WM.
Sorry for the long email, I prefer to call but am out to sea at this time with work.


I still welcome anyone else's comments!!!!!!!  ;D
-Matt
What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race.

Offline MartyParsons

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Re: LT-15 Diesel vs. 25HP
« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2009, 09:16:33 PM »
I do not this there is a heater on the D10. Or Glow plugs.
Rosss in Maine can tell you anything you need to know about the D 10 he sells many of these units.
A pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees opportunity in every difficulty. -Winston Churchill

Offline Piston

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Re: LT-15 Diesel vs. 25HP
« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2009, 09:07:47 PM »
This just threw a wrench in the decision....I emailed Timberking just for the heck of it to see if they offered a diesel with the 1220 (didn't think they did) and this is what he said...

...Yes it would be a Ruggerini 19HP motor and a $1,000 upgrade charge.


I have never heard of "Ruggerini", have any of you?  I didn't find much info on google but just did a quick search....
I think a 19hp diesel would be considerably different than a 10hp diesel. 

-Matt
What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race.

Offline ScottAR

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Re: LT-15 Diesel vs. 25HP (now vs. 19hp diesel on TK1220)
« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2009, 02:06:12 AM »
Never heard of it... 

Have heard of Yanmar....  OEM on Deere,Takeuchi, Komatsu, and of
course Woodmizer products.  Well respected in the Marine world
as reliable, fuel sipping engines... 

Suppose you could swap something else on there if it died but
I hate working on things that are supposed to work for me... 
Scott
"There is much that I need to do, even more that I want to do, and even less that I can do."
[Magicman]

Offline fishpharmer

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Re: LT-15 Diesel vs. 25HP (now vs. 19hp diesel on TK1220)
« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2009, 03:22:55 AM »
I found this tidbit of info on Ruggerini

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0FZX/is_11_65/ai_58062890/

Says they are distributed by Deutz Corp. in North America.  I know several folks that swear by air cooled diesel deutz generator engines.  I wouldn't think Deutz would tarnish a good reputation with a poorly made product.
Built my own band mill with the help of Forestry Forum. 
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Deere 5065E mfwd w/553 loader

The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls looking like hard work. --Tom A. Edison


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