The Forestry Forum is sponsored in part by:

iDRY Vacuum Kilns


Forestry Forum
Sponsored by:


TimberKing Sawmills



Toll Free 1-800-582-0470

LogRite Tools



Norwood Industries Inc.




Your source for Portable Sawmills, Edgers, Resaws, Sharpeners, Setters, Bandsaw Blades and Sawmill Parts

EZ Boardwalk Sawmills. More Saw For Less Money!

STIHLDealers.com sponsored by Northeast STIHL


Woodland Sawmills

Peterson Swingmills

 KASCO SharpTech WoodMaxx Blades

Turbosawmill

Sawmill Exchange

Michigan Firewood, your BRUTE FORCE Authorized Dealer

FARMA


Baker Products

ECHO-Bearcat

iDRY Wood Lumber Vacuum Drying for everyon

Baltic Abrasives Technologies Nyle Kiln Dry Systems




Author Topic: black spruce- white spruce how to tell  (Read 21858 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline northernss454

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 93
    • Share Post
black spruce- white spruce how to tell
« on: May 07, 2010, 03:31:41 PM »
Hi I am looking at digging some ditch spruce I found some nice ones I want they are about 3 feet tall, but how do I tell the diffrence between black and white spruce. The mother trees in they came from are black and white mixed,so all the young ones look the same.I was under the impression black are darker and have cones but not too sure. Any help would be great.
Thanks

Offline RynSmith

  • Forester
  • *
  • Posts: 465
  • Age: 50
  • Location: Western Washington
  • Gender: Female
  • Trying to see the forest AND the trees (not always as easy as it sounds)
    • Share Post
Re: black spruce- white spruce how to tell
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2010, 04:49:59 PM »
My tree book says that the branchlets (twigs under the needles and/or where the needles end) are hairy on black spruce and hairless on white.  I'm not in the range of either species and I'm curious to know if this pans out...  ???

Offline SwampDonkey

  • Forester
  • *
  • Posts: 36501
  • Age: 52
  • Location: Centreville, NB
  • Gender: Male
  • Large Tooth
    • Share Post
Re: black spruce- white spruce how to tell
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2010, 06:19:31 PM »
Check this thread to separate the 3 eastern native spruce.

http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,16160.msg230985.html#msg230985

Look at last year's growth.

Black spruce is much later flushing out than white. The white spruce have already begun here. Crushed black spruce needles have a citrusy-sweet odor similar to sweet fern, white spruce is more pungent (skunk spruce). Red spruce seems to have the sharpest needles, they are prickly buggers.

Move'n on.

Offline Clark

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 777
  • Location: Duluth, MN
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: black spruce- white spruce how to tell
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2010, 03:24:30 PM »
If there are black and white spruce present nearby you could also be looking at a hybrid. 

Getting to the root of your question it sounds like you want a tree to transplant, I'm presuming for a yard tree or some other landscaping purpose?  If that is the case I would suggest paying the extra money for a nursery tree(s).  Spruce from natural seed sources may not meet you expectations as a yard tree.

Clark
SAF Certified Forester

Offline SwampDonkey

  • Forester
  • *
  • Posts: 36501
  • Age: 52
  • Location: Centreville, NB
  • Gender: Male
  • Large Tooth
    • Share Post
Re: black spruce- white spruce how to tell
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2010, 03:57:57 PM »
I don't think the two hybridize. White will hybridize with Engelman. Black will hybridize with red. Never seen a white spruce hybrid back east here, but lots of black-red crosses. Normally red likes dry ground, but we thin red spruce growing in mossy wet ground sometimes, where black spruce is also present.
Move'n on.

Offline Clark

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 777
  • Location: Duluth, MN
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: black spruce- white spruce how to tell
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2010, 10:00:23 PM »
Technically they can hybridize, I just looked it up in the Silvics manual and one hybrid has been reported in Minnesota!  I thought it was more common than that, so you're more right on this one.  I'm actually working in MN right now and know that some days you get these (young) trees on plot there the bark looks like black spruce, the needles look longer than black and you can see clear examples of both white and black spruce in the distance.  Makes me scratch my head and wonder what to think of it?

More importantly, I think the original poster was looking for some sort of yard tree and I maintain that he would probably be better served by a nursery grown tree.

Clark
SAF Certified Forester

Offline northernss454

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 93
    • Share Post
Re: black spruce- white spruce how to tell
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2010, 10:12:49 PM »
Thanks guy,you are kinda right i want to transplant trees,but they will be used on a exsisting shelterbelt I planted 3 years ago.All my trees did well except spruce.Only about 25% sucess rate. So since they grow so slow I want to put about 30 trees that are about 3 feet tall. They are long term trees to take over the fast growing trees. I figure 3 foot spruce should be able to be done with a shovel..
Thanks guys

Offline Okrafarmer

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 6415
  • Age: 41
  • Location: upcountry SC-- Sweetgum capital of the world!
  • Gender: Male
  • Avast! Here appeareth some sweetgummery about....
    • Share Post
Re: black spruce- white spruce how to tell
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2010, 07:36:34 PM »
I was just wondering if you can tell the two apart by the color of the foliage. When I visited Alaska, there was a distinct difference in the color of the needles-- one was very blueish and one was more dark green. I don't remember which was which. Also I'm not sure if those were the same spruces as on the east coast, though I was under the impression they were. I was told they were black and white spruce. Anybody?
No matter how conventional wisdom may fly in the face of radical thought, it's still the most popular type.

Turbosawmill 8" cut GX390 Warrior Sawmill, 13hp Honda
MS290 Stihl

Genesis Hardwood Lumber

Offline SwampDonkey

  • Forester
  • *
  • Posts: 36501
  • Age: 52
  • Location: Centreville, NB
  • Gender: Male
  • Large Tooth
    • Share Post
Re: black spruce- white spruce how to tell
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2010, 08:15:37 PM »
Yes, needle color, odor and brown hairs on the branch tips of black are distinguishing. However, the new growth on both species is bluish until the cold of winter dulls the white spruce to dark green. Needles are also bigger on white spruce. We also have red spruce here in the east, giving the Smoky Mountain ridge tops their evergreen color. Red spruce grows in the hardwood ridges, white grows near clearings, wet gullies, fens and river bottoms and black on wet or very dry sites of the northern latitudes. Up where I was with Jeff at the camp, he had black in with his cedar. It can occur like that here, but more down south in the low lands of NB, like from Woodstock southward. White spruce grows in with my local cedar stands here. Jeff's lot reminds me of the NB lowlands with undulating land. I'm more upland here with rolling terrain.
Move'n on.

Offline Okrafarmer

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 6415
  • Age: 41
  • Location: upcountry SC-- Sweetgum capital of the world!
  • Gender: Male
  • Avast! Here appeareth some sweetgummery about....
    • Share Post
Re: black spruce- white spruce how to tell
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2010, 08:30:50 PM »
Yes, needle color, odor and brown hairs on the branch tips of black are distinguishing. However, the new growth on both species is bluish until the cold of winter dulls the white spruce to dark green. Needles are also bigger on white spruce. We also have red spruce here in the east, giving the Smoky Mountain ridge tops their evergreen color. Red spruce grows in the hardwood ridges, white grows near clearings, wet gullies, fens and river bottoms and black on wet or very dry sites of the northern latitudes. Up where I was with Jeff at the camp, he had black in with his cedar. It can occur like that here, but more down south in the low lands of NB, like from Woodstock southward. White spruce grows in with my local cedar stands here. Jeff's lot reminds me of the NB lowlands with undulating land. I'm more upland here with rolling terrain.

So the black spruce are the ones that always look blue, and the white spruce are the ones that turn darker?
No matter how conventional wisdom may fly in the face of radical thought, it's still the most popular type.

Turbosawmill 8" cut GX390 Warrior Sawmill, 13hp Honda
MS290 Stihl

Genesis Hardwood Lumber

Offline SwampDonkey

  • Forester
  • *
  • Posts: 36501
  • Age: 52
  • Location: Centreville, NB
  • Gender: Male
  • Large Tooth
    • Share Post
Re: black spruce- white spruce how to tell
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2010, 06:13:59 AM »
Seems to be so around here. But there is a link in post 3 for more info. Red spruce have shiny yellow green needles and are quite sharp pointed. They may be difficult to distinguish from white when under 3 feet tall. But they are the most shade tolerant and can respond to a release from long suppression periods. Thus they can survive in the hardwoods like balsam fir. At pole stage, white spruce has smooth bark if not infected with stem rot and black spruce has scaly bark. Also side by side at the same age and height, white spruce will be almost twice the diameter.
Move'n on.


Share via delicious Share via digg Share via facebook Share via linkedin Share via pinterest Share via reddit Share via stumble Share via tumblr Share via twitter

xx
Re-planting in spruce forest decimated by spruce beetle: best species to plant?

Started by 1ricky1955 on Ask The Forester

1 Replies
372 Views
Last post July 17, 2017, 04:41:36 PM
by BradMarks
xx
Thinning spruce-merge/Horselogging in a spruce plantation

Started by Rick Alger on Forestry and Logging

39 Replies
10280 Views
Last post February 02, 2007, 08:21:13 PM
by SwampDonkey
xx
Black Spruce

Started by Thefarmer76 on Ask The Forester

3 Replies
521 Views
Last post September 27, 2015, 07:51:54 AM
by Thefarmer76
xx
black spruce log won't cut

Started by 47sawdust on Sawmills and Milling

9 Replies
932 Views
Last post May 25, 2015, 12:45:09 AM
by barbender
 


Powered by EzPortal