The Forestry Forum is sponsored in part by:

iDRY Vacuum Kilns


Forestry Forum
Sponsored by:


TimberKing Sawmills



Toll Free 1-800-582-0470

LogRite Tools



Norwood Industries Inc.




Your source for Portable Sawmills, Edgers, Resaws, Sharpeners, Setters, Bandsaw Blades and Sawmill Parts

EZ Boardwalk Sawmills. More Saw For Less Money!

STIHLDealers.com sponsored by Northeast STIHL


Woodland Sawmills

Peterson Swingmills

 KASCO SharpTech WoodMaxx Blades

Turbosawmill

Sawmill Exchange

Michigan Firewood, your BRUTE FORCE Authorized Dealer

FARMA


Baker Products

ECHO-Bearcat

iDRY Wood Lumber Vacuum Drying for everyon

Nyle Kiln Dry Systems




Author Topic: sobon shed sill  (Read 5534 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Alexis

  • Full Member x2
  • ***
  • Posts: 133
  • Age: 35
  • Location: Mascouche, Qc
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
sobon shed sill
« on: June 15, 2010, 08:08:59 PM »
Hello, just a small question...

I am presently cutting a sill in my sobon shed and wondering why the sills aren't reduced to the perfect 7X7 where there is joinery... If one side sill is 8"1/4 and the other is 7"3/4, the shed would no be square...

Offline Dave Shepard

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 11122
  • Age: 2014
  • Location: Alford Massachusetts
  • Gender: Male
  • Geometrically proportional
    • Share Post
    • My homepage
Re: sobon shed sill
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2010, 08:25:53 PM »
Page 118 shows the reduction. You would have to map the joint if you did not reduce to the ideal 7"x7".
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"Logrite!

Offline Jim_Rogers

  • Board Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 7367
  • Age: 67
  • Location: Georgetown, MA
  • Gender: Male
  • Keep your chisels sharp.
    • Share Post
    • jrsawmill.com
Re: sobon shed sill
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2010, 10:59:46 AM »
First of all, most commonly, all joints should comply with the "general frame rules".....

Some of the general frame rules of this frame are:

1) all joints are reduced by 1"
2) tenon/mortises are laid out 2" off the reference edge and then 2" thick/wide
3) all bents are laid out from one end, except the other end bent.
4) braces are framed to 4" thick
5) all tenons are trimmed back 1/8"

Right now I don't see any exceptions to these rules, except the center post which has a 1/2" reduction on one side.

When we build this shed, we modified the first general frame rule to 1/2" as it is not necessary to make such a deep housing.

The reason Jack Sobon did this with 1" housing is that this design could be modified to make a wider building and if that were the case the wider building would need the 1" housing at the tie beam for supporting the loft floor.
It is kind of a one size fits all situation.

We were planning on using 2" tongue and v-groove planks on the floor, loft and roof decking, so we didn't use the rafter spacing in the book. We dropped every other rafter.

Hope that helps...

Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Offline Alexis

  • Full Member x2
  • ***
  • Posts: 133
  • Age: 35
  • Location: Mascouche, Qc
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: sobon shed sill
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2010, 05:31:00 PM »
on page 118, it shows the reduction in the width of the timber. I meant reduction in the height of the timber, at the joint of the post with the sub tenon and the sill...


Offline Jim_Rogers

  • Board Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 7367
  • Age: 67
  • Location: Georgetown, MA
  • Gender: Male
  • Keep your chisels sharp.
    • Share Post
    • jrsawmill.com
Re: sobon shed sill
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2010, 06:21:32 PM »
Ok, now I understand.

Well every frame I've ever seen him draw the top of the sills were never reduced as this surface is a reference plane. Nor is the sides of the post at the bottom reduced, and I believe that is so that the post has lots of surface area to sit on the sill, load bearing.
The stub tenon on the bottom is reduced.
If you have a corner post stub tenon then it is also reduced back to allow relish at the mortise on the sill.



If the spot where the post sits was reduced by 1" then this would be a location where water could collect should there be any roofing leak. That is something you wouldn't want to happen.

Again, I hope that helps.
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Offline Jim_Rogers

  • Board Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 7367
  • Age: 67
  • Location: Georgetown, MA
  • Gender: Male
  • Keep your chisels sharp.
    • Share Post
    • jrsawmill.com
Re: sobon shed sill
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2010, 06:25:44 PM »
Here is a shot of the bottom of a set of posts for a frame Jack designed:



You can see which ones are the corner posts.....
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Offline John S

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 414
  • Age: 73
  • Location: Sussex County, NJ
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: sobon shed sill
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2010, 03:45:51 PM »
Which of Jack's books has the shed plans?
2018 LT40HDG38 Wide

Offline Jim_Rogers

  • Board Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 7367
  • Age: 67
  • Location: Georgetown, MA
  • Gender: Male
  • Keep your chisels sharp.
    • Share Post
    • jrsawmill.com
Re: sobon shed sill
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2010, 03:52:21 PM »
The first one with the red cover.

Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Offline witterbound

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 443
    • Share Post
Re: sobon shed sill
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2010, 04:38:42 PM »
Gonna have to put a pebble under the smaller sill...

Offline routestep

  • Full Member x2
  • ***
  • Posts: 219
    • Share Post
Re: sobon shed sill
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2010, 09:34:06 PM »
I'm just finishing putting the sills (5 by 9) on the concrete foundation for a barn. There are a few doors so the tractor can drive in and livestock can walk in. The floor is dirt and the concrete walls are one to three feet above grade (barn on a slight slope).

There are various bolts coming out of the concrete that hold the sills in place and I drilled holds in the sills and lowered the sills down onto the concrete one at a time. It worked out OK, now I will lay out the mortises for the posts stub tenons. 

I just have the sills butt up next to each other, no jointery as Jim shows in the posting. I couldn't easily slip a tenon into a mortice and also have the anchor bolts hold everything down.  I guess I could have preassembled and lower the sills all at once! Do people do this?

Sobon must use some other method to attach the shed to it's foundation, maybe just gravity and friction.

Offline Jim_Rogers

  • Board Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 7367
  • Age: 67
  • Location: Georgetown, MA
  • Gender: Male
  • Keep your chisels sharp.
    • Share Post
    • jrsawmill.com
Re: sobon shed sill
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2010, 09:46:40 AM »
I guess I could have pre-assembled and lower the sills all at once! Do people do this?

Yes, I have done this.

What we did was we put blocks on top of the pressure treated mud sill and then set up and connected together the sills, cross sills and center tying joist with pegs. We aligned the entire floor assembly directly over the foundation and foundation bolts using framing squares.

Then we transfered the bolt hole locations from the mud sill to the top of the sill assembly and bored the through holes:



After we had all the bolt holes drilled and we could sight down through the holes and see the bolts, we lowered the sill assembly down onto the mud sills.

The way we did this as it was a hand raising and we didn't have a crane or gin pole on site, was we used a floor joist and some blocking to create a lever and fulcrum.
By pressing down on the lever, I could lift one end up and others removed all the blocks. Then by lifting the lever I could slowly lower the assembly down onto the mud sills and not bend any of the bolts. We did one end at a time:



We may have done a little on each end at a time, slowly lowering it and removing blocks each time to lower it evenly, but I don't remember right now. But I do remember it worked.
And we did this to the next shed frame we assembled as well, however at that site we didn't have power so we used a boring machine to bore the sill bolt holes.

Before we set the sill assembly down, we forgot chiseled out around the bolt hole so that the large washer and nut would be lower then the top surface of the sill. We wanted to do this so we wouldn't have to chisel out the underside of the 2" tongue and groove decking. Basically so that the top surface of all the sills, and floor joists would be flush and flat. So we had to chisel out the washer nut recess with the bolt in the center.



This was a little hairy as the chisel was very close to the metal bolt. But once this was done we tightened up the nuts and cut the bolts off with a Sawzall with a metal cutting blade.

We wanted to have a nice flat deck to assemble the bents on so we stood each post up and scribed the post location onto the sill and cut the decking out so that the posts would sit right down onto the sills as they were suppose to:



This also worked well and we have used this method many times.

Hope that helps.

Jim Rogers

Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Offline routestep

  • Full Member x2
  • ***
  • Posts: 219
    • Share Post
Re: sobon shed sill
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2010, 11:39:03 AM »
Thanks Jim,  I think I'll try your method next go round.

I measured the location of each bolt then drilled the sills off site. I drilled from the bottom side of the wood and had a spotter to tell me if the drill bit was leaning off of vertical. I did measure one wrong and miss marked another but the rest of the bolts came through ok. It helped that I used a 3/4 inch drill bit for the 1/2 inch bolts. I'm not sure I could have done it with a 5/8" bit.

I thought about using my beam drill, but the smallest bit that I have is 1 1/4 in., too great a diameter.

Offline Jim_Rogers

  • Board Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 7367
  • Age: 67
  • Location: Georgetown, MA
  • Gender: Male
  • Keep your chisels sharp.
    • Share Post
    • jrsawmill.com
Re: sobon shed sill
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2010, 12:19:02 PM »
Yes, we used oversized bits so that we'd have some "wiggle" room.....
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Offline Raphael

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1116
  • Age: 57
  • Location: Warren, CT
  • Gender: Male
  • Willing and able to do a boring job.
    • Share Post
Re: sobon shed sill
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2010, 04:04:49 PM »
Deb and I assembled our sills pretty much the same way, I left the morticed sills long to give me jacking points, it was also handy for attaching back blocking to when raising the first set of posts.
I did have to measure and drill the bolt holes from the bottom side of the timbers as the bolts were standing none to straight...
... he was middle aged,
and the truth hit him like a man with no parachute.
 --Godley & Creme

Stihl 066, MS 362 C-M & 24+ feet of Logosol M7 mill


Share via delicious Share via digg Share via facebook Share via linkedin Share via pinterest Share via reddit Share via stumble Share via tumblr Share via twitter

xx
Jack Sobon Shed on Concrete Foundation... What is a good sill plate to use?

Started by sterling08 on Timber Framing/Log construction

10 Replies
1510 Views
Last post May 03, 2018, 11:19:49 PM
by Don P
xx
sobon shed p.100

Started by Alexis on Timber Framing/Log construction

4 Replies
2647 Views
Last post February 16, 2011, 04:49:08 PM
by Alexis
xx
12 x 16 Sobon Shed

Started by aakins on Timber Framing/Log construction

30 Replies
10394 Views
Last post May 04, 2014, 08:44:08 AM
by drobertson
xx
10 x 14 Sobon Shed

Started by Michael NY TF on Timber Framing/Log construction

10 Replies
3760 Views
Last post April 03, 2014, 12:58:34 PM
by Dave Shepard
 


Powered by EzPortal