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Author Topic: Sawing questions, washboard problem etc. Updated,  (Read 5458 times)

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Offline 123maxbars

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Sawing questions, washboard problem etc. Updated,
« on: December 15, 2011, 10:54:50 PM »
Looking for some advice as usual. Did on a search on the forum and did not find my answer. I am having trouble while sawing (LT35). When I enter a log/cant i get about 3 to 4 in wide of ripples that look like a washboard then the cut is smooth. And sometimes during the middle of my cut I will get a few pattern of the same thing again (happens more often on wide boards, 1x6 boards tend to look good with no ripples). I do not run much water when I saw (I was sawing pop today that was dropped about 4 months ago) could that be the problem? I am thinking I need to run more water when I saw. I am a rookie sawyer still trying to absorb all the info I can get. Also when I do get a nice smooth cut my board still have stripes from the blade on them. Is this acceptable and something that I just need to live with? Just want to make sure I am doing everything right. Also on blade speed I talked to woodmizer today on that subject and the guy I spoke with said on the powerfeed he never goes past the 9oclock position unless he is edging boards. I find that to be a little slow but wanted to get the advice of other sawyers.  thanks for any advice that is given in advance. 
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Offline POSTON WIDEHEAD

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Re: Sawing questions, washboard problem etc.
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2011, 11:06:01 PM »
I had this problem when I started. Practice your speed. Provided you have a SHARP blade, pick up your speed a little when you enter the board and as soon as you enter raise the speed a little more and keep your speed consistent unless you need to slow down a little for a knot in the wood. Slowing down for a knot will keep a "wave" out of the board.
But for me, practicing speed paid off. On the other hand, a saw mill produces rough cut lumber.

Also think about 3 to 4 inches at the beginning is really not to bad. It will be sawed off when the customer squares off his/her board.
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Online redbeard

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Re: Sawing questions, washboard problem etc.
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2011, 11:41:20 PM »
Everything Poston said, and sometimes a tooth will get knocked out of set, a quick way to check it is get a 6'' cresent  and set it so blade slides through when you spin blade by hand and tooth will show up if thats it just bend it back. Blade vibration can be another factor check tension. especially if wash board is showing up on entry. Make sure guide rollers are at proper deflection.
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Offline 5quarter

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Re: Sawing questions, washboard problem etc.
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2011, 11:52:43 PM »
Maxbars...The marks in your lumber could be due to a tooth out of set, though you will always have sawmarks to some degree due to the inherent nature of sawmills.
waves in the lumber can be from a bunch of things. pushing a dull blade is most obvious, but not enough tension could also be your trouble. I have found that a band stretches as it is used. often I will put on a blade, tension it up, make my first cut or two, then up the tension a 1/4 turn. when making full width cuts (24"+), I start with a fresh blade, up the tension and slow it down To keep the rpms up and generally I'll get em dead straight. also, make sure your guide rollers are applying sufficient down bearing and that the back of the guides is no closer than 1/4" to the back of the blade. I just recently took a hard knock course on sawing  knotty ponderosa pine, and it took some time to get straight cuts, so I can sympathize with your trouble.

edit: I know that it appears as though I just copied Redbeards answers, but honestly, I came up with all this stuff by myself ;). He is just quicker than me... :D
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Offline jcbrotz

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Re: Sawing questions, washboard problem etc.
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2011, 04:45:09 AM »
Check the tension on the drive belt it may need some adjusting. if only doing it when entering the log it may be low and causing the blade to slow. Did you change the blade to rule that out? if not always try a new blade first mast of the time you will find your problem.
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Offline Chuck White

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Re: Sawing questions, washboard problem etc.
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2011, 05:36:09 AM »
There was a post a while back where the sawyer presented this same issue.

I think the problem mostly lies with the blade not being up to speed upon contact with the end of the log!

When you get this same thing somewhere in the middle of the log, the problem will sometimes be caused by small pieces of bark snagged on the blade.
~Chuck~
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Offline Full Circle

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Re: Sawing questions, washboard problem etc.
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2011, 06:10:05 PM »
I'm with the folks on travel speed.  Had this problem recently in both hard wood and softwood and found it to be when I traveled too slowly.  Your "washboard" description fits perfectly.






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Offline Piston

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Re: Sawing questions, washboard problem etc.
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2011, 04:58:46 AM »
I'm not adding any new information, but I was having a similar issue with the LT15 after breaking it in.  For me it was a tension issue, I guess as the mill got broke in, things settled/adjusted or whatever, and I needed to adjust the tension.  Just be careful you don't tighten it too much.  I will still get wavy boards though if I push too fast. 

Lucky you, you don't have to worry about pushing  :D 
-Matt
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Offline Jerry

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Re: Sawing questions, washboard problem etc.
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2011, 07:07:44 PM »
I was having the same problem just increased entry speed and eliminated the problem. Had already checked the blade tension checked blade guides and every thing I think Marty suggested increasing speed solved my problem.
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Offline Magic Smoke

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Re: Sawing questions, washboard problem etc.
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2011, 10:58:53 PM »
The hook angle on a blade (the amount the tooth leans forward) tries to pull the blade through the cut, holding it back often results in a diagonal wash board pattern. As others have said, try picking up your speed. If unable to speed up enough due to quality or hardness of log, try using a blade with less hook angle.
Its been my experience that a bent tooth usually results in marks more perpidicular to the grain.

Offline 123maxbars

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Re: Sawing questions, washboard problem etc.
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2011, 11:25:13 PM »
I appreciate everyone's advice on this matter. I tried today to pick up my speed and was doing pretty good until I hit a nail :(.  Also I thought it was odd that my user manual says for me to enter a log slow then speed up. I think my main problem was going to slow. I times myself and it took me 20 seconds to make an one inch cut on an eight foot poplar/green log.  Looks like I need to work on my speed. Also do you all use the same speed on a board that is 12in wide as on one that is 6in wide? Also on the power feed knob if going by a clock I was moving mine at about the nine oclock position. Thanks again, 
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Offline Magic Smoke

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Re: Sawing questions, washboard problem etc.
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2011, 03:13:13 AM »
You don't want to slam into the end of the log so you're going to have to slow a little while entering the cut, just pick up the speed once the blade has entered. A little roughness at the end of the board is no big deal, as someone else said, the end is going to get cut off anyway.

Offline ladylake

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Re: Sawing questions, washboard problem etc.
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2011, 05:49:01 AM »
 Saw as fast as the motor and blade will allow, wide cuts in hard to saw wood will be slower. Like the post above take it easy entering the log but get up to speed fast.    Steve
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Offline 123maxbars

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Re: Sawing questions, washboard problem etc. Updated,
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2011, 06:12:32 PM »
Well today I sawed about 100 foot of poplar. I increased my speed and got alot less "washboard" on the first of my cuts. I think I was going way to slow while cutting. I increased my speed today to cut as fast as I think the motor could handle. Also I may not be using the right blades also. When I got my LT35 I got two boxes of blades, .45x1 1/4x158, 10. I have been cutting seasoned poplar, walnut, seasoned white pine, cedar and SYP with this blades. Was thinking maybe I am using the wrong blade also on what I am cutting the most of which is Cedar and Poplar. Suggestions are appreciated. 
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Offline Chuck White

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Re: Sawing questions, washboard problem etc. Updated,
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2011, 06:45:41 PM »
123maxbars;  All I've ever used is the .045x1x158-10 Wood-Mizer Double Hard blades.

I think I've sawn just about everything that grows in this area and a couple that don't!

The 10 is a good all-around blade.
~Chuck~
Retired USAF (1989), Retired School Bus Driver (2012), and now a Mobile Sawyer
1995 Wood-Mizer LT40HDG2425 Kohler - Shingle & LapSider, Cooks Cat Claw Sharpener and single-tooth setter, 4-foot Logrite cant hook.
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Offline Magic Smoke

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Re: Sawing questions, washboard problem etc. Updated,
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2011, 09:22:55 PM »
The types of wood you're cutting are typically pretty easy to cut, however, as the wood becomes seasoned, or especially frozen, it takes on the characteristics of that of a much harder wood and therefore may require less hook angle. You don't need to buy a whole box of blades to experiment, try ordering 1 or 2 each of the 9 or 7 degree WM blades to see if the performance and/or quality increases. They also make a 4 but that's usually for that rock-hard stuff.
As Chuck mentioned, the 10 blade is a good all-purpose blade and is usually the best choice when dabbling in different species everyday. If you've got a bunch of one type of wood to cut though, experimenting can be worthwhile. 

Offline YellowHammer

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Re: Sawing questions, washboard problem etc. Updated,
« Reply #16 on: December 20, 2011, 05:35:56 PM »
I also have had this problem and I finally noticed the blade was vibrating about 1/8 inch before it ever touched the log.  So with a sharp blade and soft wood it would transfer the vibration patterning to the wood it was cutting, especially if it was soft wood, like poplar and give me a beautiful washboard pattern 6 or so inches into the cut.  As the blade got into the log and I loaded it up by increasing forward speed, the vibrations would dampen out and the ripples in the board would go away.  I was able to diagnose the problem by taking the blade off and tugging on everything it touched or rolled on. Turns out the blade guide arm was slightly loose and had just a little play in it. I couldn't tell it was loose with the blade on it because the down tension hid the slack.  I tightened the guide arm v rollers and made the arm as solid as a rock.  I went back to my same blade, same log and couldn't washboard under any conditions. 
From reading all the posts sounds like there are many reasons for wash boarding, but in my case it was simple fix and a maintenance item I check every time I change the blade.  Tug on the blade guide arm.

YH
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Offline Piston

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Re: Sawing questions, washboard problem etc. Updated,
« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2011, 09:14:47 AM »
Quote
in my case it was simple fix and a maintenance item I check every time I change the blade.  Tug on the blade guide arm.

Thanks for mentioning that, it's something I wouldn't have thought of either.
-Matt
What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race.

Offline MotorSeven

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Re: Sawing questions, washboard problem etc. Updated,
« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2011, 09:29:29 PM »
"it took me 20 seconds to make an one inch cut on an eight foot poplar/green log."

Holeey smokes, that is slow. I fly thru green Poplar, sometimes turning the crank & other times just pushing the head down the track. Like everyone has said, the engine will tell you when you push too hard & I run just a bit backed off from that point. Now when cutting pine with big knots I do slow down in the knot.
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Offline ely

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Re: Sawing questions, washboard problem etc. Updated,
« Reply #19 on: December 22, 2011, 09:15:07 AM »
im jealous, my mill wont cut eight feet wide. ;D


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