The Forestry Forum is sponsored in part by:

iDRY Vacuum Kilns


Forestry Forum
Sponsored by:


TimberKing Sawmills



Toll Free 1-800-582-0470

LogRite Tools



Norwood Industries Inc.




Your source for Portable Sawmills, Edgers, Resaws, Sharpeners, Setters, Bandsaw Blades and Sawmill Parts

EZ Boardwalk Sawmills. More Saw For Less Money!

STIHLDealers.com sponsored by Northeast STIHL


Woodland Sawmills

Peterson Swingmills

 KASCO SharpTech WoodMaxx Blades

Turbosawmill

Sawmill Exchange

Michigan Firewood, your BRUTE FORCE Authorized Dealer

FARMA


Council Tool

Baker Products

ECHO-Bearcat

iDRY Wood Lumber Vacuum Drying for everyon

Baltic Abrasives Technologies Nyle Kiln Dry Systems




Author Topic: Bridge Construction  (Read 5269 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline KyLogger

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 278
  • Age: 35
  • Location: Morgan County Ky
  • Gender: Male
  • Loggin' for a livin'
    • Share Post
Bridge Construction
« on: September 09, 2012, 05:36:24 PM »
Hey guys! Went today and looked at a small 22 acre boundary of pretty good timber. Shot the guy a price and got it (pending signing of the contract etc...) The only problem I have to contend with is a narrow (10' top of bank to top of bank) and deep (8') with only 4" of water in the bottom that has to be crossed with the log truck. Previously there were three culverts and fill, but that washed out a few years ago. I need to get across but culverts are pricey and it would require a lot of fill. I was considering using timber on site to make a timber bridge i.e. hemlock logs with 2" oak decking spiked down. The bridge is to stay in place and the owner will cover half the cost. I cannot find a semi local source for the square portable timber bridges (or know an approximate cost) Have had no luck finding a trailer frame etc......

Any Ideas? Would my log and decking idea hold up to a single axle with up to 3,000 bdft (int. scale) And what kind of abutments would I have to use, if any? My available equipment consists of a 450 JD dozer, my cable skidder and a loader tractor (forks no bucket)........................


Tom
I only work old iron because I secretly have a love affair with my service truck!

Offline John Mc

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5160
  • Age: 57
  • Location: Monkton, Vermont
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Bridge Construction
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2012, 07:21:15 PM »
A few years ago, the state of Vermont's  had a program to educate loggers, foresters and landowners about portable skidder bridges.  This may not fit your needs, since it appears you are looking for a permanent bridge, but maybe it will spark some ideas...

Here's a link to a portable skidder bridge brochure they were handing out.

Here's a link to a page with more info, including links to plans, and materials and spec sheet, as well as a YouTube video.
     www.vtfpr.org/watershed/initiative.cfm

The bridges are designed to handle up to a 14 foot clear span, and are relatively simple to make.

Hope some of this helps.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Offline bill m

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1531
  • Age: 63
  • Location: Stockbridge Ma.
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Bridge Construction
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2012, 07:33:47 PM »
If this bridge is to stay in place it should by steel. Also because it will be permanent the local conservation commission must be notified.
NH tc55da Metavic 4x4 trailer Stihl and Husky saws

Offline thurlow

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1116
  • Age: 74
  • Location: Lauderdale County, TN
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Bridge Construction
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2012, 07:40:31 PM »
Around 'here', salvaged railroad tank cars.......with ends already removed........can be bought cheaper than culverts or bridges;  been a while, so I don't know current prices.
Here's to us and those like us; DanG few of us left!

Offline John Mc

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5160
  • Age: 57
  • Location: Monkton, Vermont
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Bridge Construction
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2012, 07:46:05 PM »
... Also because it will be permanent the local conservation commission must be notified.

The regulations regarding that will vary by state.  No local notification requirement here.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Offline Autocar

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2860
  • Location: Twenty five miles southwest of Lima Ohio
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Bridge Construction
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2012, 08:31:16 PM »
I'll second the rail road tanker farmers use them around here all the time but I have no idea on what they cost or while they get them.
Bill

Offline beenthere

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 26932
  • Location: Southern Wisconsin, USA
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Bridge Construction
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2012, 09:06:24 PM »
Where did the culverts end up that washed out? Completely gone or just not usable?

Seems another culvert with a waterway for the occasional flood water to flow around the bridge rather than wash it out, would be the cheapest way.
south central Wisconsin
 It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Offline Stephen1

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1445
  • Age: 63
  • Location: Kilworthy ON> Canada
  • Gender: Male
  • Where there is a will, there is a way!
    • Share Post
    • muskoka Sawmill
Re: Bridge Construction
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2012, 09:18:15 PM »
A few years ago, the state of Vermont's  had a program to educate loggers, foresters and landowners about portable skidder bridges.  This may not fit your needs, since it appears you are looking for a permanent bridge, but maybe it will spark some ideas...

Here's a link to a portable skidder bridge brochure they were handing out.
   
I like this, I am thinking it would work great for a permanent bridge, for my tractor in my Sugar Bush. I could build it suit my creek, and tractor.
IDRY Vacum Kiln, LT40HDWide, BMS250 sharpener/setter 742b Bobcat, TCM forklift, Sthil 026,038, 461. 1952 TEA Fergusan Tractor

Offline Decked

  • Full Member x2
  • ***
  • Posts: 152
  • Location: NW Pa.
    • Share Post
Re: Bridge Construction
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2012, 09:22:53 PM »
Here's what we use...might give you an idea..

http://admwelding.com/

Offline KyLogger

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 278
  • Age: 35
  • Location: Morgan County Ky
  • Gender: Male
  • Loggin' for a livin'
    • Share Post
Re: Bridge Construction
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2012, 09:28:39 PM »
I have no idea where the old culverts went, that was several years ago. I just talked to my father in law and he has a 20' joint of 42" ADS pipe he said he would let me have. I think that will fit the bill. Drop it in, cut the banks down to fill in and get a load of rock to top it all off. Should do the trick and not be too cost prohibitive. A bridge spanning 10' built outta logs scares me a bit, if it was oak or hickory that would be one thing but I can't be putting marketable timber in for a bridge.  And has anyone got a load of the price of used I beams lately.

I definitely ain't no engineer!!!

Tom
I only work old iron because I secretly have a love affair with my service truck!

Offline Woodchuck53

  • In Memoriam
  • *
  • Posts: 807
  • Age: 64
  • Location: PINEVILLE, LA.
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Bridge Construction
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2012, 04:13:26 AM »
Have you thought about drag line mats? My dad got a pair years ago for a crossing. We put a few 9' cross ties in along both sides of the ditch and pulled the mats across. They lasted for quite a few years.
Case 1030 w/ Ford FEL, NH 3930 w/Ford FEL, Ford 801 backhoe/loader, TMC 4000# forklift, Stihl 090G-60" bar, 039AV, and 038, Corley 52" circle saw, 15" AMT planer Corley edger, F-350 1 ton, Ford 8000, 20' deck for loader and hauling, F-800 40' bucket truck, C60 Chevy 6 yd. dump truck.

Offline KyLogger

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 278
  • Age: 35
  • Location: Morgan County Ky
  • Gender: Male
  • Loggin' for a livin'
    • Share Post
Re: Bridge Construction
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2012, 06:25:17 AM »
Yeah I have, and they would be awesome However I cannot seem to find a source for em around here.

Tom
I only work old iron because I secretly have a love affair with my service truck!

Offline Ed_K

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2842
  • Age: 65
  • Location: Leyden,Ma.
  • Gender: Male
  • Leave it better than you found it. Ed_K
    • Share Post
Re: Bridge Construction
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2012, 08:13:14 AM »
We replaced a 16' span that had two i beams that rotted out,with 7 12"x12"x22' and 3"x 6"x12' hemlock on a back dirt town road.It was designed by an engineer who certified it for 20 yrs.We cover the beams with metal to keep rain off from them and used some pressure treated 2"x12"s to set them on.
Been there 3yrs and many tri-axles and snow plows have been over with no problems.
Ed K

Offline John Mc

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5160
  • Age: 57
  • Location: Monkton, Vermont
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Bridge Construction
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2012, 08:42:53 AM »
A bridge spanning 10' built outta logs scares me a bit, if it was oak or hickory that would be one thing but I can't be putting marketable timber in for a bridge.

I hear you about not wanting to use marketable logs for this.  Though lots of folks around here are using these portable skidder bridges as the cheapest alternative.  I suppose it makes a difference if you are leaving the bridge behind, vs taking it with you to use on other jobs.  If you take it with you, the cost gets spread out over a lot of jobs.

As far as it holding up to the loads you might run across it... people around here are using them on logging jobs all the time, and they are using the whole 14 foot clear span.  If you have only a 10 foot clear span, you should not be stressing these bridges at the load ratings mentioned on the plans.   

The only problems I've heard are due  old age... eventually, they rot.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Offline John Mc

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5160
  • Age: 57
  • Location: Monkton, Vermont
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Bridge Construction
« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2012, 08:46:46 AM »
Using an old railroad tank car for a culvert is a neat idea.

That reminds me of another solution I've seen:  Using an old flatbed semi trailer as a bridge.  Just drag it in across the stream and leave it (the ones I've seen they removed the running gear).

I've also seen an old 20 shipping container used as a bridge.  Makes a good covered bridge, but I'd guess not so great for your application, since getting wide or tall loads through it is not an option.

John Mc
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Offline thecfarm

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 28330
  • Age: 57
  • Location: Chesterville,Maine
  • Gender: Male
  • If I don't do it,it don't get done
    • Share Post
Re: Bridge Construction
« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2012, 08:52:00 AM »
John,no regs in VT about a stream crossing? Not trying to argue with you,but I kinda thought all states had a hisssy fit when even a tree is dropped into any water.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Offline John Mc

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5160
  • Age: 57
  • Location: Monkton, Vermont
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Bridge Construction
« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2012, 09:01:55 AM »
John,no regs in VT about a stream crossing? Not trying to argue with you,but I kinda thought all states had a hisssy fit when even a tree is dropped into any water.

Oh, they have quite a fit when you don't follow proper procedures when working around streams. 

What I was responding to was Bill M's statement that "because it will be permanent the local conservation commission must be notified".  I'm sure he's correct about the requirements in his area, but around here there is no LOCAL notification requirement.  My local Conservation Commission would probably wonder why the heck I was bothering them if I came to them with a "notification".  They're good folks, and may have some good suggestions for me, but they don't give any permission for this sort of thing.  I'm not even sure every town HAS a Conservation Commission in VT.

My point was that the regs vary from state to state about what's allowed at all, and who you've got to notify or get permits from.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Offline thecfarm

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 28330
  • Age: 57
  • Location: Chesterville,Maine
  • Gender: Male
  • If I don't do it,it don't get done
    • Share Post
Re: Bridge Construction
« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2012, 09:06:46 AM »
Now I gotcha. I doubt there is a local one here too,but I would have to go through the state regs on a bridge.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Offline John Mc

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5160
  • Age: 57
  • Location: Monkton, Vermont
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Bridge Construction
« Reply #18 on: September 10, 2012, 10:49:36 AM »
BTW... that YouTube video of the portable skidder bridge in my earlier post shows a JD 640 crossing it (at about 2:30 minutes in).  You can't see any flex or sag at all as it crosses.

Towards the end of the video, they mention that 43% of the Vermont loggers who responded to a survey are now using portable skidder bridges.  Even though the survey may not be statistically valid, it's clear that a significant number of loggers are using them.

They use hemlock in the video.  I've been debating about making something similar for a permanent crossing on a seasonal stream in my area (my uses will be much lighter loads - roughly 4000# of tractor with whatever it's pulling).  I have a few black locust trees I was thinking of using... unfortunately, not nearly enough to do the whole bridge. 

I'm interested in seeing what other suggestions crop up here for a low-cost permanent crossing.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Offline logger t

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 35
  • Location: maine
  • Gender: Male
  • log hard and often
    • Share Post
Re: Bridge Construction
« Reply #19 on: September 10, 2012, 07:01:57 PM »
we have used old steel dump truck bodies we cut the sides off and put them in with the skidder and we have used the sides as small skidder briges or for swamp holes just a thought
loggert


Share via delicious Share via digg Share via facebook Share via linkedin Share via pinterest Share via reddit Share via stumble Share via tumblr Share via twitter

xx
covered bridge construction?

Started by hackberry jake on Timber Framing/Log construction

10 Replies
3046 Views
Last post November 05, 2011, 10:40:58 AM
by jdtuttle
xx
Outdoor Bridge and Camp Construction

Started by Stan P on Timber Framing/Log construction

6 Replies
2010 Views
Last post November 18, 2005, 03:02:32 PM
by raycon
moved
MOVED: covered bridge construction?

Started by Jeff on Sawmills and Milling

0 Replies
670 Views
Last post November 04, 2011, 12:59:17 PM
by Jeff
xx
Small temporary bridge - timber or log construction?

Started by ChugiakTinkerer on Timber Framing/Log construction

5 Replies
1118 Views
Last post May 14, 2018, 12:16:58 PM
by ChugiakTinkerer
 


Powered by EzPortal