Antique planer

brb · November 20, 2012, 08:03:54 AM

Looking for opinions on usefulness of a very large antique planer. Wanting to weigh the pros and cons to see if it something to pursue. Don't know much about it yet other than it is supposed to be the size of a car, hasn't been used in 35 years but has been undercover its whole life. I believe it to be belt driven from a line shaft. Let me know what ya think.

Thanks, Brian

beenthere · November 20, 2012, 10:26:55 AM

Usefulness will be in the eyes of the beholder.

What use do you have for a planer?

Al_Smith · November 20, 2012, 10:45:52 AM

I don't know some big old monsterious things get posted on this site every so often.Lawdy they are so gigantic they have to power them with a diesel engine .How useful that would be would depend on the person I suppose .

Now I had a now deceased friend who found a large either Oliver or Cresent 24 inch electric powered planer that could run boards just slick as snot on a door knob about as fast as you could feed them in .Old as the hills and solid as a battle ship but for him with a small finish shop it worked great and was relatively inexpensive .Lawdy would that thing ever throw the chips .Loud ,you couldn't hear yourself think .

brb · November 20, 2012, 01:11:10 PM

I already have an electric single sided for normal use. This on is four sided, kinda waiting to see what kind of heads come with it. Just the infatuation with old iron, would love to see it running again. Probably power with diesel, power is not a problem.

beenthere · November 20, 2012, 02:26:46 PM

Four sided sounds more like a 4-head moulder.

brb · November 20, 2012, 07:23:50 PM

Yup, would be moulder, just seems like the old guys that talk about these things called them four sided planers, just kind of got used to it and followed suit.

samandothers · November 20, 2012, 08:59:04 PM

Wonder how much power it would take to run the hoss. Once up to speed the momentum would help power it through. NICE!

I have a small table top 12.5" Ryobi that bogs on 12 inch oak. I was planing some this week and had to help pull it through. I tried to take smaller amounts but still worked hard.

tyb525 · November 20, 2012, 09:08:49 PM

Quote from: beenthere on November 20, 2012, 02:26:46 PM
Four sided sounds more like a 4-head moulder.

A four sided planer is used to dress a board to a specific size in one pass. It's what the commercial mills use to make 2x4's, etc.

beenthere · November 20, 2012, 09:17:16 PM

tyb
The commercial mills use a 5 head moulder to make 2x4's, I'm pretty sure.

I spent some time setting a few of them up .... ;)

5quarter · November 21, 2012, 12:51:54 AM

Beenthere...whats the 5th head do? End trim maybe?

whiskers · November 21, 2012, 01:21:41 AM

Sold this old 1920s Yates A415 (four side planer, matcher, moulder) earlier this year. Buyer has a Cummins Diesel for power and plans to profile cabin logs. It was set up with a 75 hp electric motor, the chip blower had a 35. It'll run 300 linear feet a minute of 2x. Guess that would make it an offbearer's nightmare. It has babbet bushings and weighs 22k.

beenthere · November 21, 2012, 01:30:21 AM

Quote from: 5quarter on November 21, 2012, 12:51:54 AM
Beenthere...whats the 5th head do? End trim maybe?

First head works like a jointer, and the other heads follow that face. IIRC

brb · November 21, 2012, 07:13:50 AM

Whiskers --
That thing looks awesome! That is gonna be another question as to how much it is worth. I had talked to one guy that had scrapped one because it was too big and scrap prices were so high. Hate seeing that.

Al_Smith · November 21, 2012, 07:42:10 AM

Quote from: brb on November 21, 2012, 07:13:50 AM

I had talked to one guy that had scrapped one because it was too big and scrap prices were so high.

A classic example of history repeating itself .As an example the Caterpillar company was a merger of Holt and Best both of whom produced large steam tractors .Over the years with the amount of wars driving up scape prices until recently there was not one known example of any of those old machines .All broken up for scrap .I believe they did recently locate one though that was eventually restored .

This area of Ohio once thriven in manufacturing then the bottom fell out .US News and World Reports termed it the "rust belt " during the 80's .Failed businesses were gutted ,sold of piece meal for bargain basement prices .Thousands and thousands of tons of out dated metal working tools were sold by the ton .Some being the size that would have worked well for average tinker and putser like so many on this forum .All gone probabley the cylinder liner of a Toyota or the bumper on a Ford Ranger now .

tyb525 · November 21, 2012, 01:02:39 PM

Quote from: beenthere on November 20, 2012, 09:17:16 PM
tyb
The commercial mills use a 5 head moulder to make 2x4's, I'm pretty sure.

I spent some time setting a few of them up .... ;)

Well that's good info, I guess I didn't know they were considered moulders, but I guess so if they round the corners too

whiskers · November 21, 2012, 11:22:38 PM

Quote from: brb on November 21, 2012, 07:13:50 AM
Whiskers --
That thing looks awesome! That is gonna be another question as to how much it is worth. I had talked to one guy that had scrapped one because it was too big and scrap prices were so high. Hate seeing that.

Could have parted out and junked it, just didn't want to see it go that way. It was listed for about 12 years with occasional inquiries usually ending because of the babbet bushings. The buyer has experience with similar machines and wasn't intimidated by the bushings. I'll ask for a video to post when he has it running.
The value would range from scrap price to serious money for a complete modern machine. A complete older machine in good condition will have some value, placing it could be a problem. Safety is always a concern. These older machines are pre OSHA and difficult (if not impossible) to bring up to compliance. Shipping and handling large items is expensive if you have to hire it out. Get some pictures, we're waitin'............

red oaks lumber · November 22, 2012, 06:16:16 AM

i have both a 4 sided planer and 5 head moulder. i use the 4 side when im just presizing or just hogging off material. the 5 head does the more presice accurate machining.
that old planer might have babbitt bearings if so, you'll have to learn the art of pouring new bearings or find an old timer that can do it.

Al_Smith · November 22, 2012, 07:21:43 AM

Generally speaking babbit pouring is a lost art but at the same time if they kept the bearings oiled they last a long time .Most I've seen were shimmed so often just pulling a shim or two might tighted them back up if they get sloppy .

Probabley the best thing to do on that monster old planer mill once it's set up is to go through each bearing journal and make certain it will take oil .If not fix it and check for slop move on to the next .Bearings all good it'll probabley run the next 50-60 years .That old behemouth was built in the day they made things to run forever and so it may .

Al_Smith · November 22, 2012, 07:26:42 AM

You need to find an old time retired millwright about 80 years old .There's the type fellow who could help you out .

brb · November 22, 2012, 07:28:21 AM

Safety is always a concern, would guard it as much as possible. Not production, so OSHA not too much of a concern. Gotta stay safe, seems the older I get the more ya think about it. Seen too many things happen.

The babbitt doesn't scare me too much. I have a couple of guys that can help me learn to pour. I have been wanting to get to that anyway. Have a few other things that are gonna need it too.

Al_Smith · November 22, 2012, 08:00:47 AM

Some where in my deceased fathers pile of junk are the wicking ,ropage or what ever they call the stuff they use to pour babbit including some babbit ingots .

He was was a machinest/tool maker early on and often remarked in the 30's and early 40's of repairing shafts ,bearings etc. for sawmills in the local area which once were plentifull .

Ironwood · November 25, 2012, 06:44:44 PM

I had a couple early units early on. One single sided Cresent. The challenge is IF it has the HEAVY slotted square head knives. It is NOT so much the square head as it is blade availability. On jointers the square head is DANGEROUS, but "captive" in a planer less of an issue. More of issue is the metal fatigue on the bolts holding the blades and the knives. It is nearly impossible to get knives made for anything under a fortune (been there, tried that, no good) due to heat treating to harden, they will then tend to "move" on you out of plane....

On the Forum here there is an old thread that we talked about a "negitive bevel" or "back bevel" on the old knives to get a better finish. I had found this in an old book that gave some insight. Here it is:

I personally like babbit. Quietest jointer I ever had was a babitt 16" Cresent. Just need to "touch" the housing on occasion to see if she needs shimmed out or oiled. I too have some babitt rods here "just in case I need some". It basically entails melting, damming, cooling, "scraping" and chalking (to see rub points) then more scraping, and shimming.

Ironwood

Al_Smith · November 25, 2012, 07:28:18 PM

The gent I had mention who had that 24" Oliver single side planer also had a monster of a Cresent jointer .

My heavens 10 HP and 20 inch jointer with a table 12 feet long and no power feed .I cautioned him to never try and run it by hand with no feed because that thing had enough power to impale a person if it kicked back .Thank heavens he heeded my advice because quite frankly he was kind of slow in the thinking department and I worried he might do himself in which he didn't .A few stiches every so often but he still had all his fingers .

All that old stuff came from an old pattern shop that made patterns for both the Sherman tank plus patterns for Lima Ohio built steam locomotives during WW2 .BTW that old Oliver had a knife dresser built into it .

Dave Shepard · November 25, 2012, 07:35:27 PM

I like those big old machines. Babbitt bearings are nice when they are set up right. I have friends that do a lot of babbitt work on different types of machines. I'd like to find a big jointer. Found a 24" not far away, but the person who has it is fixing it up, and that might take a little while. :D

Ironwood · November 25, 2012, 08:59:00 PM

I have had three 30" jointers here. One American, and early Porter and a later CM300 Porter. Just down to one now which is the CM300 Porter, lets just say that you gotta have a pair to flatten a BIG board on that puppy. It is BIG.

I have three 30" Oliver 361's here, two need restoration/cleaning, the other is "plug and play" they weigh just under 10k. They are the wedge bed version of the 261 Oliver.

I love old ARN.....

Ironwood