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Author Topic: Antique planer  (Read 6948 times)

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Offline brb

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Antique planer
« on: November 20, 2012, 08:03:54 AM »
Looking for opinions on usefulness of a very large antique planer. Wanting to weigh the pros and cons to see if it something to pursue. Don't know much about it yet other than it is supposed to be the size of a car, hasn't been used in 35 years but has been undercover its whole life. I believe it to be belt driven from a line shaft. Let me know what ya think.

Thanks, Brian

Offline beenthere

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Re: Antique planer
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2012, 10:26:55 AM »
Usefulness will be in the eyes of the beholder.

What use do you have for a planer?

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Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Antique planer
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2012, 10:45:52 AM »
I don't know some big old monsterious things get posted on this site every so often.Lawdy they are so gigantic they have to power them with a diesel engine .How useful that would be would depend on the person I suppose .

Now I had a now deceased friend who found a large either Oliver or Cresent 24 inch electric powered planer that could run boards just slick as snot on a door knob about as fast as you could feed them in .Old as the hills and solid as a battle ship but for him with a small finish shop it worked great and was relatively inexpensive .Lawdy would that thing ever throw the chips .Loud ,you couldn't hear yourself think .

Offline brb

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Re: Antique planer
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2012, 01:11:10 PM »
I already have an electric single sided for normal use. This on is four sided, kinda waiting to see what kind of heads come with it. Just the infatuation with old iron, would love to see it running again. Probably power with diesel, power is not a problem.

Offline beenthere

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Re: Antique planer
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2012, 02:26:46 PM »
Four sided sounds more like a 4-head moulder.
south central Wisconsin
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Offline brb

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Re: Antique planer
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2012, 07:23:50 PM »
Yup, would be moulder, just seems like the old guys that talk about these things called them four sided planers, just kind of got used to it and followed suit.

Offline samandothers

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Re: Antique planer
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2012, 08:59:04 PM »
Wonder how much power it would take to run the hoss.  Once up to speed the momentum would help power it through.  NICE!

I have a small table top 12.5" Ryobi that bogs on 12 inch oak.   I was planing some this week and had to help pull it through.  I tried to take smaller amounts but still worked hard.

Offline tyb525

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Re: Antique planer
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2012, 09:08:49 PM »
Four sided sounds more like a 4-head moulder.

A four sided planer is used to dress a board to a specific size in one pass. It's what the commercial mills use to make 2x4's, etc.
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Offline beenthere

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Re: Antique planer
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2012, 09:17:16 PM »
tyb
The commercial mills use a 5 head moulder to make 2x4's, I'm pretty sure.

I spent some time setting a few of them up .... ;)
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Offline 5quarter

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Re: Antique planer
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2012, 12:51:54 AM »
Beenthere...whats the 5th head do? End trim maybe?
What is this leisure time of which you speak?
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Offline whiskers

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Re: Antique planer
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2012, 01:21:41 AM »
Sold this old 1920s Yates A415 (four side planer, matcher, moulder) earlier this year. Buyer has a Cummins Diesel for power and plans to profile cabin logs. It was set up with a 75 hp electric motor, the chip blower had a 35. It'll run 300 linear feet a minute of 2x. Guess that would make it an offbearer's nightmare. It has babbet bushings and weighs 22k.
 
 
 

      
many irons in the fire.........

Offline beenthere

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Re: Antique planer
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2012, 01:30:21 AM »
Beenthere...whats the 5th head do? End trim maybe?

First head works like a jointer, and the other heads follow that face. IIRC
south central Wisconsin
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Offline brb

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Re: Antique planer
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2012, 07:13:50 AM »
Whiskers --
That thing looks awesome! That is gonna be another question as to how much it is worth. I had talked to one guy that had scrapped one because it was too big and scrap prices were so high. Hate seeing that.

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Antique planer
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2012, 07:42:10 AM »

 I had talked to one guy that had scrapped one because it was too big and scrap prices were so high.
A classic example of history repeating itself .As an example the Caterpillar company was a merger of Holt and Best both of whom produced large steam tractors .Over the years with the amount  of wars driving up scape prices until recently there was not one known example of any of those old machines .All broken up for scrap .I believe they did recently locate one though that was eventually restored .

This area of Ohio once thriven in manufacturing then the bottom fell out .US News and World Reports termed it the "rust belt " during the 80's .Failed businesses were gutted ,sold of piece meal for bargain basement prices .Thousands and thousands of tons of out dated metal working tools were sold by the ton .Some being the size that would have worked well for average tinker and putser like so many on this forum .All gone probabley the cylinder liner of a Toyota or the bumper on a Ford Ranger now .

Offline tyb525

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Re: Antique planer
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2012, 01:02:39 PM »
tyb
The commercial mills use a 5 head moulder to make 2x4's, I'm pretty sure.

I spent some time setting a few of them up .... ;)

Well that's good info, I guess I didn't know they were considered moulders, but I guess so if they round the corners too
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Offline whiskers

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Re: Antique planer
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2012, 11:22:38 PM »
Whiskers --
That thing looks awesome! That is gonna be another question as to how much it is worth. I had talked to one guy that had scrapped one because it was too big and scrap prices were so high. Hate seeing that.
Could have parted out and junked it, just didn't want to see it go that way. It was listed for about 12 years with occasional inquiries usually ending because of the babbet bushings. The buyer has experience with similar machines and wasn't intimidated by the bushings. I'll ask for a video to post when he has it running. 
The value would range from scrap price to serious money for a complete modern machine. A complete older machine in good condition will have some value, placing it could be a problem. Safety is always a concern. These older machines are pre OSHA and difficult (if not impossible) to bring up to compliance. Shipping and handling large items is expensive if you have to hire it out. Get some pictures, we're waitin'............
many irons in the fire.........

Offline red oaks lumber

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Re: Antique planer
« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2012, 06:16:16 AM »
i have both a 4 sided planer and  5 head moulder. i use the 4 side when im just presizing or just hogging off material. the 5 head does the more presice accurate machining.
 that old planer might have babbitt bearings if so, you'll have to learn the art of pouring new bearings or find an old timer that can do it.
the experts think i do things wrong
 over 18 million b.f. processed and 7341 happy customers i disagree

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Antique planer
« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2012, 07:21:43 AM »
Generally speaking babbit pouring is a lost art but at the same time if they kept the bearings oiled they last a long time .Most I've seen were shimmed so often just pulling a shim or two might tighted them back up if they get sloppy .

Probabley the best thing to do on that monster old planer mill once it's set up is to go through each bearing journal  and make certain it will take oil .If not fix it and check for slop move on to the next .Bearings all good it'll probabley run the next 50-60 years .That old behemouth  was built in the day they made things to run forever and so it may .

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Antique planer
« Reply #18 on: November 22, 2012, 07:26:42 AM »
You need to find an old time retired millwright about 80 years old .There's the type fellow who could help you out .

Offline brb

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Re: Antique planer
« Reply #19 on: November 22, 2012, 07:28:21 AM »
Safety is always a concern, would guard it as much as possible. Not production, so OSHA not too much of a concern. Gotta stay safe, seems the older I get the more ya think about it. Seen too many things happen.

The babbitt doesn't scare me too much. I have a couple of guys that can help me learn to pour. I have been wanting to get to that anyway. Have a few other things that are gonna need it too.

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Antique planer
« Reply #20 on: November 22, 2012, 08:00:47 AM »
Some where in my deceased fathers pile of junk are the wicking ,ropage or what ever they call the stuff they use to pour babbit including some babbit ingots .

He was was a machinest/tool maker early on and often remarked in the 30's and early 40's of repairing shafts ,bearings  etc. for sawmills in the local area which once were plentifull .

Offline Ironwood

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Re: Antique planer
« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2012, 06:44:44 PM »
I had a couple early units early on. One single sided Cresent. The challenge is IF it has the HEAVY slotted square head knives. It is NOT so much the square head as it is blade availability. On jointers the square head is DANGEROUS, but "captive" in a planer less of an issue. More of issue is the metal fatigue on the bolts holding the blades and the knives. It is nearly impossible to get knives made for anything under a fortune (been there, tried that, no good) due to heat treating to harden, they will then tend to "move" on you out of plane....

 On the Forum here there is an old thread that we talked about a "negitive bevel" or "back bevel" on the old knives to get a better finish. I had found this in an old book that gave some insight. Here it is:

 

  

  

 

 I personally like babbit. Quietest jointer I ever had was a babitt 16" Cresent. Just need to "touch" the housing on occasion to see if she needs shimmed out or oiled. I too have some babitt rods here "just in case I need some". It basically entails melting, damming, cooling, "scraping" and chalking (to see rub points) then more scraping, and shimming.

 Ironwood
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Antique planer
« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2012, 07:28:18 PM »
 The gent I had mention who had that 24" Oliver single side planer also had a monster of a Cresent jointer .

My heavens 10 HP and 20 inch jointer with a table 12 feet long and no power feed .I cautioned him to never try and run it by hand with no feed because that thing had enough power to impale a person if it kicked back .Thank heavens he heeded my advice because quite frankly he was kind of slow in the thinking department and I worried he might do himself in which he didn't .A few stiches every so often but he still had all his fingers .

All that old stuff came from an old pattern shop that made patterns for both the Sherman tank plus patterns for Lima Ohio built steam locomotives during WW2 .BTW that old Oliver  had a knife dresser built into it .

Offline Dave Shepard

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Re: Antique planer
« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2012, 07:35:27 PM »
I like those big old machines. Babbitt bearings are nice when they are set up right. I have friends that do a lot of babbitt work on different types of machines. I'd like to find a big jointer. Found a 24" not far away, but the person who has it is fixing it up, and that might take a little while. :D
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Offline Ironwood

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Re: Antique planer
« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2012, 08:59:00 PM »
I have had three 30" jointers here. One American, and early Porter and a later CM300 Porter. Just down to one now which is the CM300 Porter, lets just say that you gotta have a pair to flatten a BIG board on that puppy. It is BIG.

 I have three 30" Oliver 361's here, two need restoration/cleaning, the other is "plug and play"  they weigh just under 10k. They are the wedge bed version of the 261 Oliver.


 I love old ARN.....

Ironwood
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

Offline Dave Shepard

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Re: Antique planer
« Reply #25 on: November 25, 2012, 09:02:22 PM »
At some point I need to joint some planking up to 24" wide. Some 3.5" and some 2.5". About 5,000 square feet worth. I think some sort of power feeder would be in order.
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Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Antique planer
« Reply #26 on: November 25, 2012, 09:37:47 PM »
It scares me to death on a little jointer hand feeding it I can't imagine a big one .I haven't been around any jointer for years and frankly don't care if I ever am again .

In a life time of working around all kinds of machinery that's one item  I'm just not comfortable around .

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Re: Antique planer
« Reply #27 on: November 25, 2012, 09:54:26 PM »
Winston Church had designed a HUGE spring loaded feeder that was over top two of my 30" jointers. The assembly over it was 2000# and the cast base plate was another 1000#, then add the jointer 3-4K, made for a heavy unit. I scrapped all the components as I only wanted the jointer. I will see if i can find a picture.

 Ironwood
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

Offline TW

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Re: Antique planer
« Reply #28 on: December 12, 2012, 01:18:34 PM »
I know this is an old thread but I just want to add that professional woodworkers hand feed big jointers all the time and with proper guards and care it is no more dangerous than hand feeding a small one. Maybe less.

Mine is 24" and I feel safer hand feeding it than I do hand feeding hobby sized ones. It has a proper European style bridge guard and a home made wooden guard that covers the portion of the cutter that is behind the fence. It feels safer mostly because the tablea are long and everything becomes more controlled when the workpiece is supported along the greater part of it's lenght.

Just my thoughts

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Re: Antique planer
« Reply #29 on: December 14, 2012, 11:22:15 PM »
I am a "professional" and it aint no picnic, that 30" knife is chopping some serious air (and alot of wood with each rotation), I would love a "insert head" but ouch that would be some $$$$


Ironwood
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

Offline dhilbert

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Re: Antique planer
« Reply #30 on: February 02, 2013, 03:12:34 PM »
Hi guys, I work for a company that rebuilds electric motors, generators, hydroelectric generators,and such.  I am a machinist, 30 years, anyhow for rebuilding babbit brgs. we use a company in Milwaukee, Wi. called Fuison Babbiting, they can rebuild or make a new brgs. for just about any size or style of brg. the biggest one I have worked on were about 8.500 dia. ID. and 18" long. Don't know how pricey they are, but it is a source, just thought you guys would like to know. The oldest hydro I worked on was built in 1903, rebuilt in the 40's, then we rebuilt it in 2007. That is reliability.
Thanks,   Dan

Offline brb

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Re: Antique planer
« Reply #31 on: March 28, 2013, 08:16:09 PM »
I ended up not getting a good look at the planer, thought it was too much money. Did go look at a old belt driven 24" planer with an edging head. Cast and babbit, I sure love the old iron.   Brian

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Antique planer
« Reply #32 on: March 29, 2013, 12:00:24 PM »
Quite frankly that old iron  was designed to last forever .For all intents it has .

Things have changed in heavy industry .Because the manufacturing process methods change so fast it's not that heavy cast iron any more .It might at best have a usefull life expectency of 10-15 years .

After such time it becomes obsolete ,cut up for scrap and replaced with the newest methods and that's the way that story goes .

What is small enough for low production methods might be salvaged and the others end up as a bumper for a Toyota or a beer can depending on the material .

Offline Finn1903

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Re: Antique planer
« Reply #33 on: April 02, 2013, 01:36:18 PM »
 

After such time it becomes obsolete ,cut up for scrap and replaced with the newest methods and that's the way that story goes .

What is small enough for low production methods might be salvaged and the others end up as a bumper for a Toyota or a beer can depending on the material .

I was teaching a fiber optics class at a GM engine plant in Definace OH. I got a tour of the place and got to see where the scrap metal is bring fed into the foundry to make Dura-max engine blocks.  The feed system and melter has a feedback sensor to pull in different types of scrap depending on the mix down stream.  I am sure some antiques have been melted down in that plant. 
Another sad fact is as time goes on we will have less trademen available who actually know how to work on the old equipment and align all the pieces and parts. 
WM LT40HDD47, bunch of saws, tractor, backhoe, and a loving wife.

Offline Framerguru

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Re: Antique planer
« Reply #34 on: March 23, 2019, 09:05:59 PM »
Greetings all.  New to forum, had a couple of questions.  2 years ago I bought an old 24" planer.  Old guy I got it from bought it over 40 years ago, used it a lot.  When I got it from him he had installed a 5hp 220v electric motor to drive it.  I didn't have that kind of power in my garage, so I took it off and installed an 8hp gas engine.  Runs it nicely.  My questions are, can anyone help me identify my planer?  I have the original blades for it, as well as new ones that I use.  The original blades are stamped E.C. Atkins & Co., Lancaster, NY, 1926.  Unfortunately, these are the only markings I've found on this thing.  I am also looking to replace or upgrade the bearings on it, so if anyone could point me in the right direction, it would be greatly appreciated.  I am trying to figure out how to post pictures of it right now, so you can't see it just yet.  Thanks in advance for the help!

Jimmy

Offline Framerguru

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Re: Antique planer
« Reply #35 on: March 23, 2019, 09:28:56 PM »
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Antique planer
« Reply #36 on: March 24, 2019, 04:58:01 AM »
Wow ,that looks like an old line shaft driven machine .It's got some age alright .If I'm right on that many of them were converted to run from electric motors instead of shafts .I've got two line shaft  pieces,a heavy old Bowe and Emmes lathe and a Fosdick spotting drill with an x-y table that are both over 100 years old .These aren't babbitt but rather brass bearings with  gravity oilers .If you keep oil on them I'm not sure you could wear them out.Like I said before they made them  to last 100 years and I've got the proof .
    After that paragraph I really don't know what brand that thing is other than old ,nice paint job though  ;)

Offline Quebecnewf

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Re: Antique planer
« Reply #37 on: March 24, 2019, 08:18:17 PM »
Check over on the OWWM.com forum. 

Anything you need to find out about old woodworking machines can be found there.

Post back here what you discover 

Quebecnewf 

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Re: Antique planer
« Reply #38 on: March 26, 2019, 05:14:10 PM »
Thanks guys!  Like I said, I wasn't able to find any kind of manufacturers markings on it whatsoever.  The man I bought it from never said, and I think he's the one who painted it.  I do like that name Monster Mouth, so I kept it.  When I use it I tend to give all the pulleys and gears a wide berth, so I don't get grabbed and drawn into that mouth!  I will check up on the link you specified, and let you know what I found.  Thanks again.

JImmy

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Re: Antique planer
« Reply #39 on: March 26, 2019, 05:20:10 PM »
Oh yeah, I forgot.  I recently took the blades off and had them sharpened.  The ones that are usable were custom made by the previous owner, and they still have a lot of meat on them. So I can guarantee that I'm going to be using this thing for many years to come.  It has 2 blades, 24" long, and let me tell you, they will CUT!  Aside form a couple of my fingers while reattaching them, they can go through slabs of lumber without even bogging down!  I sawed up a few trees that were knocked down during a hurricane a couple of years ago.  I milled them up and sent them through, the Monster didn't even slow down.  And the sawdust!!!  Hahahahahaha!  It was snowing in my garage.

Offline moodnacreek

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Re: Antique planer
« Reply #40 on: March 28, 2019, 12:40:48 PM »
A nice planner to own is the seldom seen 3 sided, 24" +.  Only ever saw one. The same man that had it also had a 4 sided about the size of a car. Molders are smaller machines than planers.


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