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Author Topic: Got the book but need some help  (Read 1949 times)

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Offline Ga Mtn Man

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Got the book but need some help
« on: March 07, 2013, 06:17:49 PM »
I finally broke down and bought a copy of "Native Trees of the S.E."  but I'm struggling with identifying the different types of buds and other structures on the twigs. For Tree 1, I followed the winter key and came up with water tupelo or black walnut and neither one of those look like the bark on my tree.  I hope the pics of the twigs are good enough for you guys to walk me through the keys to the correct ID.  These trees are in the N. Ga. mountains.

 

 
Tree 1 

 
Tree 1 

  
Bark on main trunk, Tree 1


 
bark on secondary trunk, Tree 1


Also, what kind of tree has these:

 
Tree 2
This is a different tree from the one above.

 

 
Tree 2
bark on second tree

 

 
Tree 2 bud




 



"If the women don't find you handsome they should at least find you handy." - Red Green


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Offline mesquite buckeye

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Re: Got the book but need some help
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2013, 06:25:56 PM »
First one looks like black walnut.

Second one, not sure, might be cucumber tree.
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

Offline Ga Mtn Man

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Re: Got the book but need some help
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2013, 06:43:10 PM »
I would agree with you on that except that the bark doesn't look anything like the black walnut in the book. ???
"If the women don't find you handsome they should at least find you handy." - Red Green


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Offline beenthere

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Re: Got the book but need some help
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2013, 06:53:17 PM »
Quote
and neither one of those look like the bark on my tree
implies one tree.

So, are we looking at pics of the bark on two different trees, or one tree?
south central Wisconsin
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Offline Ga Mtn Man

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Re: Got the book but need some help
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2013, 07:02:41 PM »
Sorry :-[, I probably should have started two threads.  My opening paragraph was referring to the first set of pics.  I added the last two pics of another tree after my original posting.  I'll go back and label the pics.
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Offline mesquite buckeye

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Re: Got the book but need some help
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2013, 07:03:55 PM »
On the walnut, cut the twig lengthwise. Black walnut pith has cross chambers. The bark looks like all the black walnut trees in my woods in MO.

The bark will vary a bit depending upon how fast it is growing, local variation and so on. The moss on the bark is a big give away. Also, usually poison ivy will be lurking nearby.
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

Offline Ga Mtn Man

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Re: Got the book but need some help
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2013, 07:09:11 PM »
Yes, it does have cross chambers.  I have sawn a number of smaller black walnut trees and the bark looked like the pic in the book.  I'm confused...
"If the women don't find you handsome they should at least find you handy." - Red Green


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Offline mesquite buckeye

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Re: Got the book but need some help
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2013, 07:12:32 PM »
That's what it is. If you cut it down, you can be sure. :o

Of course, it stops growing then....... :'(
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

Offline Ga Mtn Man

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Re: Got the book but need some help
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2013, 07:14:06 PM »
mesquite buckeye, I guess you added the explanation of the bark after I first read it.  This is a much larger tree than any of the black walnuts I have seen...probably 38" at the base. 
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Offline mesquite buckeye

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Re: Got the book but need some help
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2013, 07:15:10 PM »
Were those walnuts yard trees or woods trees? Yard trees usually dry out too much for the moss to grow very well, and they grow faster, which stretches the bark out. The photo is a fairly slow growing individual.

And yes, I am very sneaky that way...... ;D
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

Offline Ga Mtn Man

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Re: Got the book but need some help
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2013, 07:16:35 PM »
That's what it is. If you cut it down, you can be sure. :o

Of course, it stops growing then....... :'(

The tree was blown down by a tornado two years ago.  It's still partially rooted and putting out new growth.  This thing is HUGE.
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Offline Ga Mtn Man

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Re: Got the book but need some help
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2013, 07:19:07 PM »
Were those walnuts yard trees or woods trees? Yard trees usually dry out too much for the moss to grow very well, and they grow faster, which stretches the bark out. The photo is a fairly slow growing individual.

And yes, I am very sneaky that way...... ;D

It was growing in a fairly open, wooded area.  Not a yard tree.
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Offline mesquite buckeye

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Re: Got the book but need some help
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2013, 07:19:29 PM »
Time to get a thousand board feet of black walnut, I'd say. Hope it is yours.

If not, you might be able to trade for "cleaning up that down tree in the woods". Doesn't hurt to ask.
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

Offline Axe Handle Hound

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Re: Got the book but need some help
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2013, 07:25:56 PM »
Don't put too much stock in what the bark looks like in the photos of the book.  Regional differences can be pretty significant. Check the tree's overall form as well.  The twigs on a black walnut will also look thick compared to other non-nut trees.   

Offline beenthere

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Re: Got the book but need some help
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2013, 07:33:02 PM »
The pics of the buds look like black walnut. Chambered pith of those twigs would confirm that it is BW

As does the bark.
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Offline Ga Mtn Man

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Re: Got the book but need some help
« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2013, 07:41:10 PM »
Thanks for the help guys.  Black Walnut it is.

I added a pic of a twig from Tree 2 at the bottom of the first post.  I followed the keys and came up with tulip poplar, which is what I thought it was.  The course texture of the bark and the dried thing with petals (don't know what to call it) threw me.  That "thing" being near the top of the tree had the tree still been standing isn't something you would normally get a look at.
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Offline mesquite buckeye

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Re: Got the book but need some help
« Reply #16 on: March 07, 2013, 07:46:41 PM »
Thanks for the help guys.  Black Walnut it is.

I added a pic of a twig from Tree 2 at the bottom of the first post.  I followed the keys and came up with tulip poplar, which is what I thought it was.  The course texture of the bark and the dried thing with petals (don't know what to call it) threw me.  That "thing" being near the top of the tree had the tree still been standing isn't something you would normally get a look at.

That sounds right. That thing is what is left after the flower goes to seed and the seeds blow away.
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Offline Slab Slicer

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Re: Got the book but need some help
« Reply #17 on: March 07, 2013, 07:56:52 PM »
Agree on the tulip poplar. We are loaded with them around here, and they all have those old flowers left on them. If you get to mill that poplar, it will have a good amount of stress in it. At least that's my experience with them, no matter how straight they are. JMHO
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Offline Ga Mtn Man

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Re: Got the book but need some help
« Reply #18 on: March 07, 2013, 08:21:31 PM »
That was my experience too with poplar.  I'm not even sure if I want to saw it.  I need to find a market for it before I do...
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Re: Got the book but need some help
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2013, 08:28:14 PM »
Paul,

You are doing great!  To narrow it down like that with just twigs and bark is hard to do.  The second tree is definitely yellow poplar.  Keep studying the bark.  It will be your friend.  I ID by bark 95% of the time.   
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Offline ArborJake

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Re: Got the book but need some help
« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2013, 09:00:13 PM »
 When I took my certified arborist exam we had to identify 20 tree's by the twigs alone. It is the most accurate way but usually every detail of the tree from over all growth habit to branching to bud scale scars to bark is the way to go. Im still not very good at it sometimes but keep learning.
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Re: Got the book but need some help
« Reply #21 on: March 07, 2013, 09:03:06 PM »
Yes.  With some trees, you only need one characteristic, with others, you need three or four.
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Offline Ga Mtn Man

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Re: Got the book but need some help
« Reply #22 on: March 07, 2013, 09:12:01 PM »
Paul,

You are doing great!  To narrow it down like that with just twigs and bark is hard to do.  The second tree is definitely yellow poplar.  Keep studying the bark.  It will be your friend.  I ID by bark 95% of the time.

Thanks, Danny!  The size and age of these two trees are what made IDing the bark difficult for me.  I'm used to seeing younger trees.  Doesn't black walnut usually have a woven pattern to the bark?  So, what do you call that "thing" that's left on a poplar after the flower falls off?  Inquiring minds want to know. :)
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Re: Got the book but need some help
« Reply #23 on: March 07, 2013, 09:19:27 PM »
It is called an aggregate of samaras  :).  Really  :).  The base of it is called a bract.
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Re: Got the book but need some help
« Reply #24 on: March 07, 2013, 09:27:19 PM »
"aggregate of samaras"  ::)  I think you just make this stuff up Danny.  :D   
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Re: Got the book but need some help
« Reply #25 on: March 07, 2013, 09:29:37 PM »
It is the truth, I swear!  (The flower is very pretty in the spring  ;D).
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Offline mesquite buckeye

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Re: Got the book but need some help
« Reply #26 on: March 07, 2013, 09:39:01 PM »
Maple fruits are samaras, also elm.......

Tulip trees are in the magnolia family, a very ancient and primitive group of angiosperms. :)
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