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Author Topic: Need help with large carriage doors construction  (Read 5188 times)

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Offline OneWithWood

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Need help with large carriage doors construction
« on: March 09, 2013, 12:49:53 PM »
The addition I am build in the barn has a 10x10 door opening.  I am not overly enamored with overhead doors so I would like to build a pair of carriage style doors for the opening.  When I search on the internet all I come up with are overhead doors constructed to look like swinging carriage doors.
The addition will be climate controlled so I need good insulating qualities.  I built large swinging doors for the barn (9'x9') but those doors, while functional, are far from weather tight.
The addition walls are 6" thick and will be insulated to R19 using fiberglass bat. 
Some questions:
If I make the doors 6" thick how much space do I need between the doors so the doors close without squeezing?
What is the best method for closing the gap between the doors and top and bottom?
Is it possible to make doors considerably thinner and use solid foam insulation to save on weight and avoid closing issues?
What is the best design to keep the doors from sagging?
I would like to use ship lap tulip or sassafras for the exterior sheathing to match the rest of the building.  If I put the ship lap up green how to I account for the drying stresses?
Thanks for the advice.  :)
One With Wood
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Offline Lud

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Re: Need help with large carriage doors construction
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2013, 04:01:52 PM »
Just a couple of quick thoughts......most any door of that scale will sag eventually so I'd consider wheels underneath to facilitate opening and I could imagine a cable suspension internally with an access panel planned to reach in and tighten up a turnbuckle if necessary someday.   Some form of shiplap at the center  for external coverage with compressible foam gasketing to achieve a seal.  Maybe clamps to pull the doors in tight like submarine doors.

Consider all ideas,  even the wild ones, in the planning stages.  Try to imagine everything that could go wrong and think how your design will handle it.  Good luck!
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Offline Don_Papenburg

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Re: Need help with large carriage doors construction
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2013, 11:49:34 PM »
Foam is good .  Laminate the outer stile/rails around a sheat of flat plywood.  use Large industrial hinges .  Make your own hinges using small timken tapered roller bearings. an inchand a half barrel would not be out of proportion for a door that size .  use more than three hinges per door.  Look up conservation reserch technoligies, they have door and window seals in all sizes and shapes and many materials
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Offline Jay C. White Cloud

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Re: Need help with large carriage doors construction
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2013, 11:58:34 PM »
Hey OWW,

Have you thought of a sliding track door with gasket and turnbuckle hasp.  That is what we have on the ends of one of our shops, and boy when that turnbuckle is pulled in, that door is tight, just about zero draft.  When we added the "gasket" she was seal up perfect. The big door we did a few years back was 120 mm thick (4.5") with 75 mm (3") of polyiso insulation (R 19.5.)  Worked good on a track.  Timber framed with a slot for the insulation then thin wood board over that.  Would that work for you?

Regards,

jay
"To posses an open mind, is to hold a key to many doors, and the ability to created doors where there were none before."

"When it is all said and done, they will have said they did it themselves."-teams response under a good leader.

Offline Sprucegum

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Re: Need help with large carriage doors construction
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2013, 11:20:51 AM »
I was going to suggest sliding doors as well but if swinging doors are your hearts desire - reinforce them with steel strapping to avoid the sag.

Thicker doors just need a bigger bevel where they meet so only the last couple inches are flush and sealed.

Offline OneWithWood

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Re: Need help with large carriage doors construction
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2013, 07:31:19 AM »
Thanks for all the replies.
I have sliding doors on the barn and I am happy with the performance and tightness.  Unfortunately there is no room for a slider on the addition given the location of the door and the inside corner.
Keep the suggestions coming.
One With Wood
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Offline Armand Tatro

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Re: Need help with large carriage doors construction
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2013, 01:18:58 AM »
Do you get a lot of snow in your location?  I would want to think you sometimes you would have to move a lot of snow to get swing doors to open.  Also if your building is not built above grade dirt will blow into the swing area and if not graded away swing doors will sooner or later drag.   Armand

Offline OneWithWood

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Re: Need help with large carriage doors construction
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2013, 12:19:33 PM »
Armand, we very rarely get a measureable amount of snow that stays around more than a couple of days.  This door will be at or slightly above grade so I want to construct it in the best way possible to minimize sagging.
The main purpose of this door is to make transferring wood from the kiln to the storage area easier.
One With Wood
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Offline Sprucegum

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Re: Need help with large carriage doors construction
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2013, 02:26:27 PM »
How about a ramp door? Like a drawbridge, eh? You can raise or lower it with a winch or hydraulics or heave-ho! capstan.  :P

Offline OneWithWood

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Re: Need help with large carriage doors construction
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2013, 05:16:27 PM »
Interesting.  Will have to give that some thought.

I will on occasion need to bring the JD 4520 tractor in.  Also may need to bring the JD450C crawler in if it should need repairs during less than comfortable weather.  That would require a very stout door  ???
One With Wood
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Offline Hilltop366

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Re: Need help with large carriage doors construction
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2013, 05:43:16 PM »
How about a ramp door? Like a drawbridge, eh? You can raise or lower it with a winch or hydraulics or heave-ho! capstan.  :P

The first thing that popped into my mind was Yosemite Sam!

I am in the process of making a pair of doors for a almost 9' x9' opening, I framed them with 2x4"s on edge so I can get 3.5" of foam insulation in them and put a sheet of 4x8' ply on the out side bottom, hinge side on each door then filled in the rest (inside edge 5" and top 10") with more plywood. The seems and the centre are covered with " boards. This is as far as I got, I have not put the insulation and inside plywood yet But the doors have not sagged all winter, I figure that once I put the inside plywood on starting at the top hinge side it will take a lot of weight or use to make them sag, Now if you could find some 5' x 10' Plywood you would have it made.


Offline seanw2010

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Re: Need help with large carriage doors construction
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2015, 12:29:18 PM »
I know this is an old post, OWW could you possibly tell me how you constructed the door? Or if anyone else has build a large, heavy door, could you also tell me your construction method? Pictures are a plus. I am designing two 15' x 7.5' doors for a shop at work and want to build it the best way possible. The door is going to be hollow with a cavity for insulation. So I'm thinking framed with 2x6's and plywood or OSB sheathing. Any tips to prevent sag would be very useful!!

Offline Don_Papenburg

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Re: Need help with large carriage doors construction
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2015, 12:33:49 AM »
Make a frame out of 2" square tube with inner diag. framing for stiffness .  clad the door with wood of your choice .  I have used carsiding and raised panels on large doors.   Extruded poly insulation will add stiffness to the door , cut for a tight fit and spray foam any voids. Then clad the inside .
 Another option is to build a wood frame truss and fill in the open area with the foam panels and sheet with ply ,glued and nailed or screwed. to add more insulating value glue another layer of extruded poly foam to the outside and then cover with siding of your choice.   
Always use large heavy duty hinges . Make your own if need be.
Frick saw mill  '58   820 John Deere power. Diamond T trucks

Offline OneWithWood

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Re: Need help with large carriage doors construction
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2015, 06:04:56 PM »
I did essentially what Don said.  Wood frame truss with rigid insulation and plywood.  Very large hinges.  Eventually I will post all the pics of the addition adventure.
One With Wood
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Offline Don_Papenburg

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Re: Need help with large carriage doors construction
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2015, 11:12:59 PM »
Sound neat , would like to see them
Frick saw mill  '58   820 John Deere power. Diamond T trucks

Offline OneWithWood

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Re: Need help with large carriage doors construction
« Reply #15 on: March 28, 2015, 02:44:42 PM »
I did some digging around and found the pics of the doors I built.
The doors are constructed using big tooth aspen 2x4s (light weight) with half lap joinery, glued and screwed, for the frame.  The interior is filled with 2" foil faced solid insulation.  Then 1/2" sheathing covers the door itself.  I did not angle any of the frame members because I feel the plywood and sheathing will add the necessary strength.
If I were to do it over again I would space the hinges differently so the bottom hinge was closer to the bottom of the door instead of spacing the hinges equal distances.  That would require more bracing so the bottom hinges would have something to attach to.
 

 

Plywood sheathing added:
 

  

Exterior with tulip poplar siding added:


 

The interior will be covered with tulip poplar also, oriented horizontally.
One With Wood
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Offline Magicman

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Re: Need help with large carriage doors construction
« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2015, 09:47:24 PM »
I have been there and seen those doors.   ;D
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Offline Don_Papenburg

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Re: Need help with large carriage doors construction
« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2015, 11:59:24 PM »
Yep, them are some good looking doors
Frick saw mill  '58   820 John Deere power. Diamond T trucks

Offline dablack

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Re: Need help with large carriage doors construction
« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2015, 03:07:14 PM »
Here pretty soon, I'm going to need to build doors for my 7'x 9' garage door opening. 

So, 7' tall and 4.5' wide.  I like your design OWW! 

Where did you get the hinges?

thanks
Austin
Building my own house in East TX

Offline OneWithWood

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Re: Need help with large carriage doors construction
« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2015, 05:30:59 PM »
Pretty sure I gat them at Menard's.  Biggest ones they had.
One With Wood
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