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Author Topic: Question on Finshing a Big Cookie  (Read 2703 times)

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Offline Lud

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Question on Finshing a Big Cookie
« on: March 30, 2013, 05:58:48 PM »
Building a table out of a 4' by 3' Curly Willow cookie about 3 " thick.  My client saw it drying in my barn and asked if it was "spoken for".   I've had it for a year and it came out of a standing dead tree.  The cookie was waxed thru last summer and was inside  and did not change much at all. Flattened and planed and sanded one side in the Fall and the golden, swirly flames within the red are extraquisite.

I've built a cantilevered grid and legs out of cherry to support the cookie as a table top without it needing to to be exposed to any structural forces.

So while I talked with the client about a few bowties to tie things together, we also talked about bar epoxy as a finish but now I'm having second thoughts.  Wouldn't the epoxy lock in the topside and prevent movement on one side only?  Am I asking for trouble with the heavy gloss?

What should I be considering?   ???
Simplicity mill, Ford 1957 Golden Jubilee 841 Powermaster, 40x60 bankbarn, left-handed

Offline Jay C. White Cloud

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Re: Question on Finshing a Big Cookie
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2013, 06:04:38 PM »
Hey Lud,

Sound beautiful, could you post some pics?  I use epoxies a lot, but not for this kind'a work (sometimes maybe?) so I'm with you.  I need to see it to get a handle on the issue.  If it hasn't split anywhere that is great.  It sounds like the slow drying and wax really helped.  Where would the "box ties" go?

Regards,

jay
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"When it is all said and done, they will have said they did it themselves."-teams response under a good leader.

Online beenthere

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Re: Question on Finshing a Big Cookie
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2013, 06:19:16 PM »
Quote
we also talked about bar epoxy as a finish but now I'm having second thoughts.  Wouldn't the epoxy lock in the topside and prevent movement on one side only?

If you go this route, just put it on evenly on both sides instead of just one. The two part epoxies do have some elasticity to account for some movement, but the cookie will likely eventually get a crack or three.
south central Wisconsin
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Offline jamesamd

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Re: Question on Finshing a Big Cookie
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2013, 01:02:00 AM »
Need to see it :(
All that is gold does not glitter,not all those that wander are lost.....

Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Question on Finshing a Big Cookie
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2013, 05:18:24 AM »
It's been common practice over the years that folks would use two part epoxy on cookie rounds. The reason was two fold, to bring the rings out and to limited the checking. It is not fool proof against checking though. But my experience is the checking is more hairline and not wide open checks. I have a cypress root done in epoxy, but it has some hair line checks, and not wide open ones. Bottom line is, don't go into it thinking it's not going to check with epoxy applied. ;)
Move'n on.

Offline Lud

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Re: Question on Finshing a Big Cookie
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2013, 06:56:45 AM »
I'll get a pic or two ASAP.  My friend had been given this 10' tree trunk, standing dead, that had been topped.  He needed my bigger Stihl, 28", get it down.Cutting it shallow and wedging as we went, the willow cutting easy, we got all the way thru and the tree just stood there!  Had to hang a 60" Logrite on it and do chinups to get it to tip over!

The tree species must have some multistem characteristics.  There are bark inclusions and you can see  a half dozen different stems bonded into the trunk.  So for strength and design, the bowties will add interest and insurance.  I intend to use inch thick ties across the stems' separations  and will do  a few on the bottom also to balance the stress.

I'll dampen the top of the cookie and get the pic.   The grain is awesome.
'










Simplicity mill, Ford 1957 Golden Jubilee 841 Powermaster, 40x60 bankbarn, left-handed

Offline Lud

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Re: Question on Finshing a Big Cookie
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2013, 08:37:56 AM »
Here's the pics of the big cookie.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tried to catch the "flames" in the last pic.

 

 

And here's one showing the grid design of the table frame to keep structural forces away from the cookie.    I'll have to get a pic of the bottom side of the cookie as I outlined and routed the same grid pattern into the bottom of the cookie so it can't shift too much but can move seasonally.
Simplicity mill, Ford 1957 Golden Jubilee 841 Powermaster, 40x60 bankbarn, left-handed

Offline WDH

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Re: Question on Finshing a Big Cookie
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2013, 08:47:41 AM »
Is it a burl?
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5640SU, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Offline Axe Handle Hound

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Re: Question on Finshing a Big Cookie
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2013, 10:25:59 AM »
Lud, I never thought I'd say this to another man, but you've got some nice legs.  :)  And that willow cookie is pretty impressive as well.  If it were me, I'd drench both sides of that thing in hot linseed oil and let it soak up every bit that it could take rather than go with the epoxy.  Like SD said, it's going to move and I would hate to have to fix a thick epoxy surface that cracked.  The added bonus is that the linseed oil will really bring out the flame and grain figure.  I wouldn't be afraid to topcoat with a urethane or something with good flexibility, but ideally only after it's been at its final destination for a year so you can be reasonably sure it's acclimated.  Just my thoughts on it for what they're worth.


Offline POSTON WIDEHEAD

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Re: Question on Finshing a Big Cookie
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2013, 01:55:30 PM »
Very nice Lud!  smiley_thumbsup
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Re: Question on Finshing a Big Cookie
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2013, 03:01:37 PM »
That sure is a bute Lud. Nice lattice table support.  :)

A lot of times the burl type tables are more stable than one thinks. Mother has a huge burl bowl table with glass top. The support is a steel frame the burl sits into, kinda basket-like.
Move'n on.

Offline lowpolyjoe

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Re: Question on Finshing a Big Cookie
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2013, 03:15:34 PM »
The cookie was waxed thru last summer and was inside  and did not change much at all.

That sure is a beauty.   What does it mean to say it was "waxed thru"?   I wanted to dry some smaller cookies and some chemicals were recommended to me but i don't remember if anyone mentioned wax?  Thanks

Offline Jay C. White Cloud

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Re: Question on Finshing a Big Cookie
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2013, 04:14:06 PM »
Hi Lud, et. al.,

Love the legs on that stand!   8)  Great job.

I wish I could pull out the article but I can't remember what binder it is in?  It is from the late 70s early 80s and it speaks to permeability of different finishes.  What did the use as a test?  Slabs and Cookies.  I can't remember the entire article but I can give you snippets that might be of interest.  Most of the oils (flax, tung, etc.) all actual took on water when exposed to splash or humidity.  I thought that was interesting.  Next was polyurethanes, which was as bad as oil, and in some cases worse.  Then came epoxies, and at the time I was big into designing zoo and aquarium enclosures, so I just knew they would be at the very top...100% waterproof.   ::) :P Back to school for with me, I was wrong!  You had to coat the wood over 8 times to achieve 98% resistance to taking on water.  I was shocked.

So now, all these years later,  I still will use epoxies when making artificial wood or stone for those types of enclosures, but when it comes to tables, bars, and the like, I stick to just plane old oil and wax.  Easy to finish, easy to refinish and durable enough.  If the piece is going to see an insane amount of traffic like a commercial bar, then I would do 10 coats of epoxy, or a custom fit peice of glass.  What was the 100% waterproof finish, in as little as two coats, maybe three,  good old wax...bees wax being the best, go figure.  So, on a cookie like this,  I would leave the wax finish on bottom, and then just do a traditional hand rubbed oil finish on top.

Again Lud, you did beautiful work!

Regards,

jay
"To posses an open mind, is to hold a key to many doors, and the ability to created doors where there were none before."

"When it is all said and done, they will have said they did it themselves."-teams response under a good leader.

Offline Lud

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Re: Question on Finshing a Big Cookie
« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2013, 09:00:23 PM »
Glad you like it, Everybody.  Thanks for the kind words.

Lowpolyjoe,  ' Waxed thru" means I coated both cut surfaces with Anchorseal for 6 months or so on a longterm dead piece of very soft, light wood .  As in,  thruout the summer, not thru the wood.

Seems like the consensus is going away from epoxy.  It will not have huge traffic to deal with so maybe epoxy's not needed.  I am planning on putting some ties in across the bark inclusions for security.  There are also two stools coming along to complete the set.  The stools will have the same curve on the legs tho narrower for proportional considerations.   Will post more pics in a few. 8)
Simplicity mill, Ford 1957 Golden Jubilee 841 Powermaster, 40x60 bankbarn, left-handed

Offline Warbird

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Re: Question on Finshing a Big Cookie
« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2013, 11:47:48 PM »
Awesome work, Lud.  Seeing a cookie like that turns me into:


Offline lowpolyjoe

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Re: Question on Finshing a Big Cookie
« Reply #15 on: April 05, 2013, 08:56:59 AM »
Lowpolyjoe,  ' Waxed thru" means I coated both cut surfaces with Anchorseal for 6 months or so on a longterm dead piece of very soft, light wood .  As in,  thruout the summer, not thru the wood.

Thanks Lud.   

And as others have said - that table/stand is a really nice piece of work.  Good luck with the project.

Offline LAZERDAN

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Re: Question on Finshing a Big Cookie
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2013, 09:52:41 PM »
Warbird   I LIKE your thinking !   now i won't be able to stop singing the cookie song.      Thanks       Lazerdan

Offline Lud

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Re: Question on Finshing a Big Cookie
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2013, 05:54:36 PM »
Here's a teaser.......   I heated up some boiled linseed oil and coated the cookie.  I wound up heating another batch as it was taking so much.  It had shown a 6% dryness so I figured it was like pumping formaldyhyde  into the body to plump it up it's "cheeks".

The bowties are the same cherry as the support frame and stools so while they are lighter it should all work together when I show you the final pics.   Getting close as the customer came by and handed me a deposit! ;D

 

 

and here's a couple of closeups of the golden flames in the red storm

 

 

 

 


I'm thinking of titling the piece , "Kites in the Storm"
Simplicity mill, Ford 1957 Golden Jubilee 841 Powermaster, 40x60 bankbarn, left-handed

Offline WDH

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Re: Question on Finshing a Big Cookie
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2013, 07:46:55 PM »
I like the way that the bowties are variable in size.  That will be a beautiful piece, and the oil seems just right.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5640SU, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Offline Tree Feller

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Re: Question on Finshing a Big Cookie
« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2013, 12:23:40 AM »
Wow! That's a stunning piece, Lud. Very unique. Thanks for sharing it with us. 
Cody

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