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Author Topic: Help with Timberjack 450 dead wheel "3 wheel drive"  (Read 6122 times)

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Offline Spartan

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Help with Timberjack 450 dead wheel "3 wheel drive"
« on: September 02, 2015, 11:51:32 PM »
Been a while since I have been on the board.
Was wondering if there are any TJ guys out there that have dove into a differential on one of these.

I have a new to me 1976 TJ 450 skidder.  Problem is that the right rear wheel is dead.  Pulled the axles, they are fine.  Needs a set of planetary on the same wheel but that is not the issue, they still spin when wheel is rotated so they are not binding (just one tooth broke off one gear and the pin is shot).  I have gone through enough planetaries in a 518  to know that the drive axle does not stop if they bind and it tears them all apart.  This axle did not do the same thing.

No weird noises I can hear when it rotates(but I don't hear much with the screaming jimmy) or even feel.

This has the Eaton axles in it and the "NO Spin"  My guess is it is similar to CAT design.

This leaves me with the differential.  My guess is that the problem lies in the "No Spin"  Anyone ever had one apart?
Can you get parts?

I am currently also looking for a whole 3rd member to swap in for time sake, but am having trouble locating one.  Suggestions on suppliers?
If I can't find one I will have to fix the one I have I guess.

Any help would be great.
Thanks

Offline Neilo

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Re: Help with Timberjack 450 dead wheel "3 wheel drive"
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2015, 12:59:07 AM »
The cheapest problem would be a broken spring in the no-spin. so one side stays out.

Offline bushmechanic

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Re: Help with Timberjack 450 dead wheel "3 wheel drive"
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2015, 04:56:44 AM »
I'm guessing that a forestry scrapyard would be your best bet for a third member, you will need to know the ratio( stamped on the end of the pinion). I have had lots of those apart, sounds like the locker is stripped out on one side or as neilo said spring broke. They are not hard to do don't touch the pinion and pull the center section replace the locker and set to .010" backlash and your good to go again. Last one I installed I think was around 1200.00 bucks Canadian. 

Offline Spartan

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Re: Help with Timberjack 450 dead wheel "3 wheel drive"
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2015, 07:05:34 AM »
Thanks guys.
Where would I get a spring or a locker for that matter?  Who sells those Eaton parts?

Offline treeslayer2003

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Re: Help with Timberjack 450 dead wheel "3 wheel drive"
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2015, 07:08:14 AM »
Been a while since I have been on the board.
Was wondering if there are any TJ guys out there that have dove into a differential on one of these.

I have a new to me 1976 TJ 450 skidder.  Problem is that the right rear wheel is dead.  Pulled the axles, they are fine.  Needs a set of planetary on the same wheel but that is not the issue, they still spin when wheel is rotated so they are not binding (just one tooth broke off one gear and the pin is shot).  I have gone through enough planetaries in a 518  to know that the drive axle does not stop if they bind and it tears them all apart.  This axle did not do the same thing.

No weird noises I can hear when it rotates(but I don't hear much with the screaming jimmy) or even feel.

This has the Eaton axles in it and the "NO Spin"  My guess is it is similar to CAT design.

This leaves me with the differential.  My guess is that the problem lies in the "No Spin"  Anyone ever had one apart?
Can you get parts?

I am currently also looking for a whole 3rd member to swap in for time sake, but am having trouble locating one.  Suggestions on suppliers?
If I can't find one I will have to fix the one I have I guess.

Any help would be great.
Thanks
hey man, long time no see. like these dudes said, its prolly the no spin. you will need the model number of the rear, inot sure what else the eaton came in.......maybe a franklin? replace the planetary to as that broke tooth will surely tear up the rest of it.
good to see ya, and pics of the skidder  :)

Offline ga jones

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Re: Help with Timberjack 450 dead wheel "3 wheel drive"
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2015, 07:08:14 AM »
Schaefer enterprises in wolf lake Illinois forestry salvage yard.
380c timberjack c4 treefarmer international trucks jonsered saws. Sugi hara bars d31 komatsu 350 tj grapple

Offline Spartan

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Re: Help with Timberjack 450 dead wheel "3 wheel drive"
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2015, 07:24:15 AM »
Been a while since I have been on the board.
Was wondering if there are any TJ guys out there that have dove into a differential on one of these.

I have a new to me 1976 TJ 450 skidder.  Problem is that the right rear wheel is dead.  Pulled the axles, they are fine.  Needs a set of planetary on the same wheel but that is not the issue, they still spin when wheel is rotated so they are not binding (just one tooth broke off one gear and the pin is shot).  I have gone through enough planetaries in a 518  to know that the drive axle does not stop if they bind and it tears them all apart.  This axle did not do the same thing.

No weird noises I can hear when it rotates(but I don't hear much with the screaming jimmy) or even feel.

This has the Eaton axles in it and the "NO Spin"  My guess is it is similar to CAT design.

This leaves me with the differential.  My guess is that the problem lies in the "No Spin"  Anyone ever had one apart?
Can you get parts?

I am currently also looking for a whole 3rd member to swap in for time sake, but am having trouble locating one.  Suggestions on suppliers?
If I can't find one I will have to fix the one I have I guess.

Any help would be great.
Thanks
hey man, long time no see. like these dudes said, its prolly the no spin. you will need the model number of the rear, inot sure what else the eaton came in.......maybe a franklin? replace the planetary to as that broke tooth will surely tear up the rest of it.
good to see ya, and pics of the skidder  :)

Hey there, hope things are well for you.

Offline Spartan

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Re: Help with Timberjack 450 dead wheel "3 wheel drive"
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2015, 07:25:02 AM »
Schaefer enterprises in wolf lake Illinois forestry salvage yard.

I gave them a call at the end of yesterday, so we'll see if they get back to me.  Thanks

Offline ga jones

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Re: Help with Timberjack 450 dead wheel "3 wheel drive"
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2015, 11:00:43 AM »
Golden rule equipment has them also. There in pa
380c timberjack c4 treefarmer international trucks jonsered saws. Sugi hara bars d31 komatsu 350 tj grapple

Offline snowstorm

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Re: Help with Timberjack 450 dead wheel "3 wheel drive"
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2015, 02:54:54 PM »
goggle general truck in Chicago il  i bought one from them 3 yrs ago for a 30,000lb rockwell rear. about 1200. what used to be called a detriot locker is now a eaton no spin. they had the parts in stock to fix my old one but it was only 200 less

Offline treeslayer2003

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Re: Help with Timberjack 450 dead wheel "3 wheel drive"
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2015, 03:49:53 PM »
Golden rule equipment has them also. There in pa
where at in Pa? north, south? are they a jack place or got other stuff?

Offline Neilo

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Re: Help with Timberjack 450 dead wheel "3 wheel drive"
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2015, 07:22:08 PM »
A Detroit Locker is a No-Spin with its own hemisphere, generally fitted to small applications like your 4x4. The No-Spins in skidders were always No-Spins.

Offline snowstorm

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Re: Help with Timberjack 450 dead wheel "3 wheel drive"
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2015, 08:00:14 PM »
A Detroit Locker is a No-Spin with its own hemisphere, generally fitted to small applications like your 4x4. The No-Spins in skidders were always No-Spins.
they are now made by eaton. they changed it a little. says eaton on it along with the box it came in. watch the vid on youtube eaton no spin

Offline ga jones

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Re: Help with Timberjack 450 dead wheel "3 wheel drive"
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2015, 08:23:21 PM »
Golden rule is east central. junction of i81 and i78 myerstown.salvage yard has a lot of jacks. I would guess the axles are WR7 or maybe WR9 eatons? Maybe the older ones had different models.
380c timberjack c4 treefarmer international trucks jonsered saws. Sugi hara bars d31 komatsu 350 tj grapple

Offline Spartan

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Re: Help with Timberjack 450 dead wheel "3 wheel drive"
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2015, 10:00:21 PM »
Golden rule is east central. junction of i81 and i78 myerstown.salvage yard has a lot of jacks. I would guess the axles are WR7 or maybe WR9 eatons? Maybe the older ones had different models.

Mine are W5128

I monkeyed with it a bit today, when I brought it down to the road, the wheel bound a little with no axles in it, so the planetary might be giving me more grief than I thought.                             I am just use to the axle ripping through them if they bind smiley_huh2
I put the axle in the no spin without the planetaries in and tried to turn it with a pipe wrench (don't worry I used a rag) and it was solid, no give.
I might try to replace the planetary gear and shafts and see if anything is different.  No one has gotten back to me on a pumpkin anyway.
Maybe with a little luck that will solve it and I won't have to shell out the coin.
My gut tells me it won't solve it but you never know.

Thanks for the part references guys.

Offline Neilo

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Re: Help with Timberjack 450 dead wheel "3 wheel drive"
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2015, 01:08:25 AM »
How do you know the right rear doesn't drive? If it doesn't and the planetary gears and gears are intact, then it isn't a planetary problem only.

With the no spin, you should be able to jack a wheel up, rotate it a bit and feel the free play as the dog clutches move. If that wheel disengages in a direction, it will spin reasonably freely in that direction, but lock up again when you go the other way.

Offline Spartan

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Re: Help with Timberjack 450 dead wheel "3 wheel drive"
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2015, 07:42:57 AM »
How do you know the right rear doesn't drive?

well I know forward doesn't work because I watched it when I hooked a large drag.  three tires spinning, right rear dead.  Also tried to climb a steep hill and it wouldn't make it.  Every tire made a trench except the right rear.
I know, it probably is in the diff (no-spin), was just wishful thinking.

I can't spin the wheel right now cause I am alone today to work on it and the wheel is already off (as well as planetary housing)
not strong enough to put it back on by myself

Offline Spartan

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Re: Help with Timberjack 450 dead wheel "3 wheel drive"
« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2015, 02:21:21 PM »
Update...

Broken ring gear mount...

Golden Rule is helping me with the parts.

Thanks guys

Offline coxy

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Re: Help with Timberjack 450 dead wheel "3 wheel drive"
« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2015, 04:29:57 PM »
I would also check the planetary  if you saw the wheel drag with no axle in it

Offline Spartan

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Re: Help with Timberjack 450 dead wheel "3 wheel drive"
« Reply #19 on: September 04, 2015, 05:40:10 PM »
I already did as mentioned above.  got a gear coming


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