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Author Topic: Timber frame layout square  (Read 3756 times)

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Offline Dave Shepard

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Re: Timber frame layout square
« Reply #20 on: July 01, 2018, 11:27:49 AM »
Does the new tool have pencil allowances? The later original Als did.

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Offline bricecochran

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Re: Timber frame layout square
« Reply #21 on: July 01, 2018, 12:19:50 PM »
TimfromNB - We would be happy to send you another square, can you send me an email with your contact info at brice@timberframehq.com and we will get it in the mail.  
Brice

Offline Jim_Rogers

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Re: Timber frame layout square
« Reply #22 on: July 01, 2018, 01:03:52 PM »
Does the new tool have pencil allowances? The later original Als did.
Good question, maybe Brice can answer that. I do have a new one here that I can test. And the latest version of the old "Big AL" does come with a printed instruction sheet.
Here is a picture of it:


 
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Offline TimFromNB

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Re: Timber frame layout square
« Reply #23 on: July 01, 2018, 03:12:03 PM »
John, my understanding is that shrinkage is generally greater in the diameter section than in length of the timber.

Also, in the case of a tenoned horizontal member going into a vertical mortised timber, the mortise will shrink towards the center of the timber, potentially creating a gap in that shoulder joint.


Offline TimFromNB

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Re: Timber frame layout square
« Reply #24 on: July 01, 2018, 03:16:02 PM »
Brice, will get in contact with you by email.

Offline jander3

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Re: Timber frame layout square
« Reply #25 on: July 01, 2018, 08:43:24 PM »
Big Al....all the way.  Like this better.  Couldn't figure out why.  Altough, in general, I always opt for simpler. I was thinking this through at today's sawhorse class and I realized why.  The Big Al is lighter and rounder, so when I drop that bad-boy on my foot, it hurts less.    No.  That ain't it.   On the Big Al, the 1 1/2" line and 3" line is on the same side.  On the Timber frame HQ version gotta flip the layout tool for a base measurement.

That feature alone drives me to Big Al.   I do like the nothes for dragging a pencil or knife on the the TF HQ version, just not enough.   I am purchasing Big Al's for student use and looking into offering the same for sale at up coming classes.

I don't believe you can get Big Al from TF Guild any longer.  I recently purchased a few from Jim Rogers.  I was very happy.  Look and feel we're the same as the orginial.

Jon

Offline sterling08

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Re: Timber frame layout square
« Reply #26 on: July 02, 2018, 07:44:24 AM »
   I think that it depends on your perspective. If you are only using a framing square, you will absolutely love the TF HQ version. I had been using a framing square and cannot believe how much I love my new TF HQ version! However, I never used a Big Al. When I went to buy one, they were no longer available, so I bought the TF HQ version.

   So, if you are currently using a framing square, by all means do yourself a favor and go get the TF HQ square! If you already have the Big Al, well, then you probably don't really need the TF HQ square.

   One other comment. I find the pointy corners on the TF HQ square handy for making step-lap joints. I can place the corner down in the joint and run it across to verify that I don't have any "high spots" that need to be removed. Of course I could do this with my framing square, but with the TF HQ square being so convenient, most times my framing square is out of reach when doing layout, and rather than walking over and getting it, I just use the TF HQ square.

   Finally, if you are only going to be doing one timber frame project, and aren't going to be doing layouts very much, I wouldn't buy it. However, if you are planning on doing more than one frame, the cost of this square (which really is quite expensive) is negligible.


Offline TimFromNB

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Re: Timber frame layout square
« Reply #27 on: July 26, 2018, 08:24:49 PM »
Thought I would update you guys on the square from Timberframe HQ. 

Brice contacted me in this thread and graciously offered to replace my square. I received it and it is in good order. He told me that he inspects every square as they are assembled, so they wouldn't leave his hands bent or out of square. This means it was either bent during shipping or after I received it. To give you an idea of shipping damages, check out the condition of the box it was received in last week (thankfully I think it missed the square.:



 


I am getting very similar results to the first square. After further examination, I believe most of this offset is due to the fact that in some cases, I am marking my layout onto an out-of-square non-reference face. The base of the square registers 1" down, so there is a small gap and the zero mark of the square is not against the edge. See picture for exaggerated example:



 

That gap is the offset I am seeing. The framing square or combo square registers only about 1/4" down, meaning it basically has its zero mark on the edge. Obviously, the more off-square, the more offset there will be.

Overall, my conclusion is that even if the older one had a bow and was a bit out of square, it gave similar results (but having to push the grid down). I think the biggest reason for the offset is the fact that it registers 1" down the face, so if you are measuring onto an out of square non-reference face from a reference face, you will get an offset, unlike with a combo or framing square.

In the end, I will keep using the square. I believe it is a great tool that should save me plenty of time. I really find the extra markings (compared to the Borneman) add to its usefulness. It definitely goes faster than framing square + combo square, is more consistent and the 2" base makes it great to transfer lines around waney edges.

Thanks again to Brice for the fantastic service!


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