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Author Topic: "Forest industry fearful as farmers sell immature logs" NZ  (Read 2161 times)

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Offline dgdrls

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"Forest industry fearful as farmers sell immature logs" NZ
« on: March 12, 2018, 06:35:50 PM »
Forest industry fearful as farmers sell immature logs | Stuff.co.nz

Are Foresters and Loggers seeing similar tendencies here in the States or Canada?

best
D

Offline Autocar

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Re: "Forest industry fearful as farmers sell immature logs" NZ
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2018, 07:23:54 PM »
We see it here all the time farmers need educated and the loggers do also. If we don't change are ways here in western Ohio there won't be a future for the next generation of loggers. 
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Offline Tarm

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Re: "Forest industry fearful as farmers sell immature logs" NZ
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2018, 08:33:54 PM »
The answer is simple. Have the mills buy the stumpage now and cut it in ten years. If the mills are not willing to tie up their own money why do they expect the farmer landowners to?

Offline Texas Ranger

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Re: "Forest industry fearful as farmers sell immature logs" NZ
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2018, 08:43:22 PM »
cannot speak for Canada, but down here the mills have reduced log size brought in, not looking to long term growth.  Result are plantation grown small stems.  Big logs still have a market, but not many
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Offline Southside logger

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Re: "Forest industry fearful as farmers sell immature logs" NZ
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2018, 12:41:05 AM »
The attitude in that article about changing the laws to prevent someone from selling their timber when they choose to do so is EXACTLY why guys are liquidating now, both there and here. Over regulation always backfires. Let the market sort it out. 

We see the same thing here, toothpick timber being clear cut. More power to them I say, it only makes my large timber more valuable as there is less and less of it around.

Can't think of the last time someone called looking for an 8" live edge slab for a table top...
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Offline Claybraker

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Re: "Forest industry fearful as farmers sell immature logs" NZ
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2018, 12:07:59 PM »
cannot speak for Canada, but down here the mills have reduced log size brought in, not looking to long term growth.  Result are plantation grown small stems.  Big logs still have a market, but not many
Between strong pulpwood prices and not much of a premium for saw timber, plant 'em thick and cut 'em quick may be the new normal around here. Timber companies have managed their own land that way for quite some time.

Offline Klunker

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Re: "Forest industry fearful as farmers sell immature logs" NZ
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2018, 07:05:52 AM »
After reading article, its the export market, India, China and some mideast countries buying up the timber.

If NZ was smart it would raise a Tariff or Tax on exported raw material to be paid by the exporter.
All countries should look to maintain and control the health of renewable resources.
Use the tax to control the health of the resource.
Foreign countries don't care if you strip your land bare as long as they can profit in the process.

Its always foolish to sell just the raw mat'l, better to add value then sell.

It comes down to whats more important, maintaining the health of a nations renewable resources or the profits of an individual.





Offline Klunker

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Re: "Forest industry fearful as farmers sell immature logs" NZ
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2018, 07:13:34 AM »
Just for a reference I did some quick work.

The amount of forest in NZ is approx the same size as the state of Maine.
31,000 sq. miles.

Offline WDH

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Re: "Forest industry fearful as farmers sell immature logs" NZ
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2018, 07:49:00 AM »
I say let the free market work.  Private landowners should not be regulated by what the environmentalists and the Do-Gooder's want.  If the environmentalists and the Do-Gooder's want to have older growth timber, let them buy their own land and grow them some.  ,In the meantime, leave me alone. 
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Offline WV Sawmiller

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Re: "Forest industry fearful as farmers sell immature logs" NZ
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2018, 08:48:38 PM »
   I read a book by a German Forester hired by Vanderbilt as one of the first foresters here in the USA. He made a very good point about the issue. A large part is the landowner wants/needs to see a return on his investment in his lifetime, not in that of his grandchildren's. A benevolent attitude will only take you so far especially with the bill collectors and tax man. I let a lot of my trees grow because the hunting is a big part of my recreation and my family is already raised and our bills paid. I got a card from a timber/logging company yesterday. If it was 35-40 years ago and I were struggling I might very well be willing to let them come cut but I don't have to now.

  I worked in some very poor areas in Africa and vacationed in more affluent areas. People were upset when the locals would kill and eat or sell the wildlife for bushmeat. It is easy to say "That gorilla or giraffe is worth X amount of money in increased future tourism vs a small percentage now. Some places like South Africa and Kenya and such have recognized that and have gotten the support of the community in protecting the wildlife because they get immediate benefits. Most parts of Africa are not that far advanced in this area. I always said it was like telling a drowning man "You'll be able to stand up and walk out when the tide goes out." and his reply will be "Yeah, but I'm drowning now."
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Offline hatman-nz

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Re: "Forest industry fearful as farmers sell immature logs" NZ
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2018, 04:34:37 PM »
Hi  
yep  even more  going out   at the mo  with  big lifts in prices 
even  firewood  guys   finding it hard  to  get  supplys and have lifted there prices    
some  small   logs   makeing   not bad  money  with the market  paying  over  110  Kiwi  a cube meter   down to 4 inch small end    at the port 
some land was also cleared   to be converted to  dairy farming   that has slowed  a bit  in some areas  
One billion trees, one billion opportunities | Stuff.co.nz
then  they go  and plant  a heap of trees  

   china  and india   have planted over 5  billon between them 

Offline petefrom bearswamp

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Re: "Forest industry fearful as farmers sell immature logs" NZ
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2018, 08:42:33 AM »
When I was practicing consulting forestry I found that when the landowner said it isnt the money it was.
Hence the smaller diameter stuff was harvested per his/her wishes against my advice.
I am now 12 years retired but still see lots of pecker poles going down the road.
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Offline mike_belben

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Re: "Forest industry fearful as farmers sell immature logs" NZ
« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2018, 10:57:42 AM »
I had an old man call me asking if i would log his 40some acre place on shares with a paycheck every friday.. Oh yeah theres lot of big timber and the roads are built.  

Yeah the roads were great but his "big timber" lacked a sellable stick short of some pulp.  Every tom dick and harry with a log truck had been in there before me, and it might as well go to hay now.  Wont produce another board in my lifetime anyways. 
Revelation 3:20

Offline Matt601

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Re: "Forest industry fearful as farmers sell immature logs" NZ
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2018, 04:43:10 AM »
I had an old man call me asking if i would log his 40some acre place on shares with a paycheck every friday.. Oh yeah theres lot of big timber and the roads are built.  

Yeah the roads were great but his "big timber" lacked a sellable stick short of some pulp.  Every tom dick and harry with a log truck had been in there before me, and it might as well go to hay now.  Wont produce another board in my lifetime anyways.
Had a woman call me last month to come cut her hard wood. Said there 15 to 20 loads they wanted cut. I get there and there a trailer in the middle of a cut over and she upset because the logger before me left some hardwood on fence row.  there all about 48 inch around and at 6 foot tall they branch out. I asked them what you want me to do with that?? NO one will take it. They was on and on about how nice they are. I told them I cant cut it there nothing for me to cut. Last week they showed up at my house begging my wife for me to come cut it.  
No matter where you go there you are!!!

Offline mike_belben

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Re: "Forest industry fearful as farmers sell immature logs" NZ
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2018, 01:43:45 PM »
Tell them they need a tree removal service, not a logger.

Another over the phone gold mine i went to look at, yeah big big straight timbers.  Hemmed in by powerlines on 3 sides and leaning over his house, two uprooted and laying teepee style against a 3rd leaner.  

He asked how much i thought we'd make on them.  I said its gonna cost you 10 grand to get these craned out and i am not the guy for it. 
Revelation 3:20

Offline Ron Scott

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Re: "Forest industry fearful as farmers sell immature logs" NZ
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2018, 08:40:30 PM »
There were a number of jobs over the years that I just would not do as they would have been "bad forestry" and I would not put my name to them. However the landowner always seemed to find someone to do it without concern for sustainable forestry. As I drive by these properties, their mistakes and loss of volume and values remain obvious over the years.

Offline mike_belben

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Re: "Forest industry fearful as farmers sell immature logs" NZ
« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2018, 10:25:46 PM »
Likely not as obvious to the perpetrators.  
Revelation 3:20

Offline hatman-nz

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Re: "Forest industry fearful as farmers sell immature logs" NZ
« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2018, 06:09:45 AM »
just to give some idea  behind the. reasons for. selling. logs now is the large lift in prices 
Logs | interest.co.nz
don't fully understand the grades etc. but. people in the know will  know  what it all means 
price is  for pine  dougless firs. etc etc. maybe a bit better. for milling logs   but lower. grading may only be making the same  as pines  for export 
even fire wood has lifted in price   due to amount being exported 

Offline setnctl

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Re: "Forest industry fearful as farmers sell immature logs" NZ
« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2018, 11:55:06 PM »
the problem down here in TN is the way timber sales are handled for example, land owner has some timber but doesn't know anything about volume or quality calls two or three loggers and a broker and take bids, all the tracts here are offered as clear cuts so we all bid accordingly and the competition is such there's no margin to leave anything standing and if they do offer a tract to select cut most loggers here purchase the timber by the ton and there are wild swings in the bids and quality of the harvest I have cut every type of harvest treatment and the land owners that were knowledgeable about timber and timber sales and the after math are about the only ones to hire a forester to mark the selected timber they want to retain other than those few land owners the rest say cut it all    

Offline mike_belben

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Re: "Forest industry fearful as farmers sell immature logs" NZ
« Reply #19 on: August 25, 2018, 12:46:09 AM »
Where in TN are you located?
Revelation 3:20


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