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Author Topic: Muffler mods  (Read 3337 times)

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Offline realzed

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Re: Muffler mods
« Reply #20 on: April 06, 2018, 11:09:52 AM »
I fully realize any good system requires feedback to make it optimal over a wide range of conditions - especially variable ones - but with present and past saws with their regular carb setups that has never been the case in that most always usually were set for a rough average condition and a user realized often by feel, that he was  living with a certain amount of 'off peak' performance as the nature of the beast as real World conditions changed in a practical sense.
With an M-Tronic type deal as I understand it, while that is still somewhat the case, it is largely improved since it tries to automatically adapt (33 times/sec) to cover a wider range of operational variables..  the carb mixture being just one of those variables - and in the case of modding an exhaust to produce more power, one of the more important ones.
A true system that completely monitors and adjusts for everything I suspect will never hit something as small or cheap as a chainsaw for logic, cost, size, and weight considerations, as somewhat seen by how many buyers resist any electronic interventions at this point now and swear to continue to, until there is no choice left.
We know a tuner can compensate well with carb adjustments for most mods in rudimentary ways - but my curiosity remains at just how good or how far something like an M-Tronic module can mimic or even improve on that to adjust the carb not only to outside operational parameters - but especially in this case, internal or modified parts that certainly change the saw's 'personality' and run safety factors.
I'm sure that in the case of a C-M version, the factory full well knows - but you'd never get that part of the story..
 

Offline woodsdog2015

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Re: Muffler mods
« Reply #21 on: April 06, 2018, 11:14:31 AM »
My original concern is for the condition and longevity of the saw.  If you use a modified muffler and it isn't completely crazy, will these mods hurt or help the long term use of the saw?  I heard Stihl does make a tuned muffler but my dealer said it would be about $136 USD and he didn't feel the cost would warrant the moderate gain in performance.  My dealer does not like muffler mods and feels that they will eventually burn the saws up quicker then using a stock muffler engineered specifically for your model saw.  
I'd rather be in the woods.
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Offline realzed

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Re: Muffler mods
« Reply #22 on: April 06, 2018, 12:24:57 PM »
I concur with the long term part of what you said fully!
Interesting that Stihl offers another muffler as an alternative - never heard that - but I guess it does to a point suggest there is more in many of these saws considering all, to be brought out if the wish is there..
I'm sure you could get many who might chime in on the dealer's take on the reliability aspect of muffler mods being detrimental to saws in the long run considering how long many may have had modified ones working for them - but when done by often different methods and ways, I'm sure the variables mean there will be a lot of different long term results as well.. which is exactly why we both are seeking the same type of info I guess..  
Thanks - Randy

Offline HolmenTree

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Re: Muffler mods
« Reply #23 on: April 06, 2018, 01:32:43 PM »
Yep Stihl does offer a dual outlet muffler, well here in Canada anyways.
A couple of years ago I bought a brand new Magnum dual outlet front cover for my 066 from Stihl Canada. The old cover was all banged up from a quarter of a century of use :laugh:

But in the US in early 1995 OHSA forced the discontinuation of the dual outlet muffler. I believe the 046 Magnum was effected too.


 

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Online mike_belben

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Re: Muffler mods
« Reply #24 on: April 06, 2018, 09:52:31 PM »
A hot jug is the most detrimental thing you can do to a chainsaw.  Many ways to get it but they all result in scoring,  aluminum transfer from piston to jug, and a bound up ring land.  

Get your IR temp guns out.  A muffler mod expels hot gas quicker, thus standing temps will drop from the muffler mod.  This is always to the saws benefit in terms of life span.  It means that the threshold of melting a piston has a little more buffer under all conditions.  

 Naturally, a number of muffler modded saws will be burned up at the hands of oblivious operators and the muffler will be wrongly convicted for it in the operators ignorance.   Thats just life.  
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Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Muffler mods
« Reply #25 on: April 06, 2018, 10:22:29 PM »
I acquired a Stihl 024 from a dealers dead pile that wasn't dead .Evidently the owner sent it in for repairs and they found a scalded piston and sold him another saw .These plus the 026 models had three different mufflers and this one was the most restrictive .All I did was gut the muffler and rebuild the carb,never did a thing to the piston .It has ran flawlessly ,toasty piston and all .So in so many word what I'm saying if you know what you are doing you're not going to ruin a saw by altering the muffler .Further more a Stihl dealer by franchise rules is not allowed to alter a saw in any way including the muffler .Oh before I forget,I run it on 32 to 1 mix ratio . 8) <I just had to throw  that in.

Offline woodsdog2015

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Re: Muffler mods
« Reply #26 on: April 08, 2018, 01:44:41 AM »
Thanks fellas sounds like most feel that the saws will run better and cooler with a reasonable muffler mod.
I'd rather be in the woods.
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Offline wild262

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Re: Muffler mods
« Reply #27 on: April 08, 2018, 09:46:07 AM »
Thanks fellas sounds like most feel that the saws will run better and cooler with a reasonable muffler mod.

               It absolutely does in my opinion.  Downside is more noise sometimes.  As was said, the extra heat is what  is detrimental to the saw, esp. when using in summer months.  Some will argue, but to each his own. ;)

Offline Bandmill Bandit

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Re: Muffler mods
« Reply #28 on: April 08, 2018, 10:29:04 AM »
Used to be saw engines were fairly decent out of the box and I still did mods because having raced snowmobiles you just have the know how to get them running BETTER! BUT now they require a near tear down and rework just to get them to idle decent never mind perform any where near the theoretical maximum. Any thing with a new 2 cycle hits the bench for a rip down and rework before I ever pull the cord. I even swapped the carbs on my most recent saw and blower to new "older model" carbs that you can actually adjust properly before I put gas in the tank the first time.

Mufflers get reworked and I adjust the exit orifice size to achieve best back pressure too. Its a real PITA but well worth it.        
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Re: Muffler mods
« Reply #29 on: April 08, 2018, 11:39:06 AM »
Thanks fellas sounds like most feel that the saws will run better and cooler with a reasonable muffler mod.

               It absolutely does in my opinion.  Downside is more noise sometimes.  As was said, the extra heat is what  is detrimental to the saw, esp. when using in summer months.  Some will argue, but to each his own. ;)
Yes they absolutely last longer. :)
As I showed before my 27 year old 066Mag that I just rebuilt recently for the first time still has lots of life in the piston/cylinder.  Only had to replace a loose PTO bearing.
Thanks to its factory installed dual outlet muffler long before EPA and OSHA they built the saws to last.


 

 

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Online Woodcutter_Mo

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Re: Muffler mods
« Reply #30 on: April 08, 2018, 11:57:06 AM »
 Here's the muffler mods I did on my 455, I drilled a hole in the side and made a weld on deflector and have added a spark arrester as well. The saw is a little louder but not by too much, actually similar to my stock 372xp. After the 372xp's warranty is over it will get some muffler work as well as my 550xp.

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Offline teakwood

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Re: Muffler mods
« Reply #31 on: April 08, 2018, 12:03:19 PM »
Thanks fellas sounds like most feel that the saws will run better and cooler with a reasonable muffler mod.

               It absolutely does in my opinion.  Downside is more noise sometimes.  As was said, the extra heat is what  is detrimental to the saw, esp. when using in summer months.  Some will argue, but to each his own. ;)
X2 and what you guys call summer months for us its 12 month per year and ad 20%.
Now its 27 degrees in the morning and 34 after mid day. Just nasty  

Offline wild262

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Re: Muffler mods
« Reply #32 on: April 08, 2018, 12:52:41 PM »
Thanks fellas sounds like most feel that the saws will run better and cooler with a reasonable muffler mod.

               It absolutely does in my opinion.  Downside is more noise sometimes.  As was said, the extra heat is what  is detrimental to the saw, esp. when using in summer months.  Some will argue, but to each his own. ;)
X2 and what you guys call summer months for us its 12 month per year and ad 20%.
Now its 27 degrees in the morning and 34 after mid day. Just nasty  

    I actually prefer to cut in cooler months or early spring.  Gives the wood time to season some, no humidity to deal with, and no bugs, ticks, poison to deal with.  I'm actually burning 2 wood stoves as we speak here in NE Missouri.  Winter keeps dragging on.  Just bought a new Echo 360P, but I doubt I will wait till the 5 yr. warantee is up before I muffler mod it and adjust to 40:1.   Its very restrictive.

Offline moodnacreek

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Re: Muffler mods
« Reply #33 on: April 08, 2018, 05:07:26 PM »
Put a high compression piston in a 261 epa husky. That gave it considerably more torque. Then I put the xp muffler on and that increased the acceleration.

Offline woodsdog2015

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Re: Muffler mods
« Reply #34 on: April 08, 2018, 05:53:13 PM »
Now youre the second person in this thread to mention not only modifying the muffler but also switching to a less lean oil to gas mixture. Specifically 40:1 gas/oil mix instead of the factory 50:1 mix. What is the reason for that? Again, my concern and issue is for saw life not speed or saw testing. Also can advertised test mufflers be used for wood cutting and timbering operations? It appears that the model Im interested in is always publicized as a test muffler only not for wood cutting but why would you invest in these mufflers just for saw testing purposes? The other thing I heard is that the stock mufflers ensure greater torque than speed and this is more important than speed in  the wood cutters world, all else being equal.
I'd rather be in the woods.
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Offline woodsdog2015

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Re: Muffler mods
« Reply #35 on: April 08, 2018, 05:59:13 PM »
Btw, I too prefer to cut now while I can see everything in the woods and  you can work like a bull and stay relatively cool with no bugs etc. to me this is prime time for wood cutting.
I'd rather be in the woods.
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Offline wild262

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Re: Muffler mods
« Reply #36 on: April 08, 2018, 07:52:07 PM »
Now you’re the second person in this thread to mention not only modifying the muffler but also switching to a less lean oil to gas mixture. Specifically 40:1 gas/oil mix instead of the factory 50:1 mix. What is the reason for that? Again, my concern and issue is for saw life not speed or saw testing. Also can advertised “test mufflers” be used for wood cutting and timbering operations? It appears that the model I’m interested in is always publicized as a test muffler only not for wood cutting but why would you invest in these mufflers just for saw testing purposes? The other thing I heard is that the stock mufflers ensure greater torque than speed and this is more important than speed in  the wood cutters world, all else being equal.
I don't know if your referring to me or not.  And I certainly don't want to hijack this tread with the "mixture" debate, but yes I do prefer 40:1 or more oil.  If I am milling, it gets dropped to 32:1. That milling puts a lot of stress on them.  But those days are pretty much over for me.   I've been inside lots of saws over the years and have seen several bottom end failures with bearings and such ran on 50:1.  Not saying that was the cause, but the saws I have been into that were ran with 32 & 40 to 1, had more oil film coating on the lower internals, and they were in the shop for new top ends.  That's just my observation.  Thus that's why I now run 40:1 in all my 2-stokes.  The 50:1 was mostly a EPA thing as I understand it in order for the saws to make the feds happy.  If you have been running the leaner mix, then stick with what works for you. :)

Offline Rebarb

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Re: Muffler mods
« Reply #37 on: April 08, 2018, 10:00:52 PM »
My muffler modded saws cut wood more efficiently and they run cooler.
I also run 40:1 in all my saws.

Offline teakwood

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Re: Muffler mods
« Reply #38 on: April 09, 2018, 07:50:32 AM »
I have always run 50:1 with stihl oil, first the orange jugs and since 2 years the semi synthetic stihl oil. never ever had a scored piston and i did hundreds of hours of chain saw milling in tropical hardwood in very hot temps with a 088.  

Offline Drifter27

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Re: Muffler mods
« Reply #39 on: April 09, 2018, 11:10:46 PM »
I'd like to hear about this also. I don't have the experience a lot of people here do but I've always thought muff mods keep saws cooler and that's good for everything


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