The Forestry Forum is sponsored in part by:

AVAILABLE


Forestry Forum
Sponsored by:


TimberKing Sawmills



Toll Free 1-800-582-0470

LogRite Tools



Norwood Industries Inc.


Sawmill & Woodlot Magazine



Your source for Portable Sawmills, Edgers, Resaws, Sharpeners, Setters, Bandsaw Blades and Sawmill Parts

EZ Boardwalk Sawmills. More Saw For Less Money!

STIHLDealers.com sponsored by Northeast STIHL


Woodland Sawmills

Peterson Swingmills

 KASCO SharpTech WoodMaxx Blades

Turbosawmill

Sawmill Exchange

BRUTE FORCE Authorized Dealer

Woodshax Outdoor Vending Solutions

FARMA


Council Tool

Baker Products

ECHO-Bearcat



Author Topic: Mahogany  (Read 5079 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline nativewolf

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1138
  • Location: Delaplane, VA
  • Forester
    • Share Post
Mahogany
« on: April 11, 2018, 05:19:05 PM »
Anyone ever get a chance to work in a Mahogany Plantation?  Been years since i did tropical plantations but I was asked to help manage a plantation in Hawaii.  I was wondering if anyone did, would they have markets for thinnings.  I know quite a bit about the species but finding a market for thinnings in Hawaii will be interesting.  Maybe like our Teak growers, they will get containerized and sent off.  

Thanks All!
Liking Walnut

Offline mike_belben

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 3570
  • Location: Middle TN
  • Pulp Friction
    • Share Post
Re: Mahogany
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2018, 09:44:44 PM »
What island?
Revelation 3:20

Offline teakwood

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1133
  • Age: 37
  • Location: Costa Rica
  • Gender: Male
  • Switzerland
    • Share Post
Re: Mahogany
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2018, 07:05:03 AM »
We have mahogany here but if never heard of planting in plantations. i think they need 80-100 years to get to useful size, not really interesting for plantation cycling. I think there are over 30 div. mahogany species. We have the so called Honduran Mahogany and i did some board samples and was not impressed by the color of the wood. just a reddish wood without much grain. I don't know if there are other most beautiful species   
National Stihl Timbersports Champion Costa Rica 2018

Offline nativewolf

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1138
  • Location: Delaplane, VA
  • Forester
    • Share Post
Re: Mahogany
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2018, 07:14:24 AM »
Mike:  I'll have to go find out, I just was looking at the plat and photos. 

Teakwood:  Wondering about the rotation myself.  I mean it is supposed to be growing 1+ meters a year and DBH is supposed to be fast increment as well.  Not sure why it would be planted, instead of teak, if the rotation has to be 60 years but lots of literature suggest 60 year rotation.  I know in Thailand we did not have it on 60 year rotations but Thai are not ...the most long term planning folks in general.  Your ancestors probably take the prize in that regard (good long term managers).
Liking Walnut

Offline teakwood

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1133
  • Age: 37
  • Location: Costa Rica
  • Gender: Male
  • Switzerland
    • Share Post
Re: Mahogany
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2018, 07:23:05 AM »
that's interesting

60years, that could be. always take in consideration that fast "young" grown plantation wood will never have the same quality and beautiful color than old single growth trees

I don't know if teak could be grown in Hawaii but i'm sure it would make more sense than mahogany.  Grows faster, same or higher price, lots of buyers, ...

In Thailand the teak plantations have 40years cycles instead of our 20years. it must grow slower there
National Stihl Timbersports Champion Costa Rica 2018

Offline nativewolf

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1138
  • Location: Delaplane, VA
  • Forester
    • Share Post
Re: Mahogany
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2018, 07:54:46 AM »
Teak in Thailand is either growing in a area with only 4 month wet season, pretty dry and really hot in summer. Or is growing in natural range which is further north, high elevation and frankly pretty cool in winter, wetter, but cooler.  If you want to see amazing teak go to Irriwaddy river in central Myanmar.  Wow.  

Yeah, I am wondering why they planted Mahogany instead of Teak.  I mean Volcanic soils that can grown anything.  Why not teak? 

What's your rainfall like in your part of CR?
Liking Walnut

Offline nativewolf

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1138
  • Location: Delaplane, VA
  • Forester
    • Share Post
Re: Mahogany
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2018, 09:21:28 AM »
Liking Walnut

Offline nativewolf

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1138
  • Location: Delaplane, VA
  • Forester
    • Share Post
Re: Mahogany
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2018, 09:29:53 AM »
Wow, 68 inches of rain a year on average and very little variance from month to month.  Man, should be able to grown anything if you get nutrients management under control.
Liking Walnut

Offline Southside logger

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 3051
  • Age: 46
  • Location: Wilsons (Dinwiddie County), VA
  • Gender: Male
  • Have a plan to saw every log you meet.
    • Share Post
Re: Mahogany
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2018, 09:47:05 AM »
And now you know why Monsanto has such a giant research presence in Hawaii.  
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.

Offline mike_belben

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 3570
  • Location: Middle TN
  • Pulp Friction
    • Share Post
Re: Mahogany
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2018, 09:47:07 AM »
Thats big island.  I kinda figured it would be there or molokai.  All the other real estate is priced where only millionaire homes or apartments/retail shops can go on a postage stamp of land profitably.  Big island actually has cows so the price has to be lower due to more land/less people. 

I was stationed in oahu for 4 years.  The biggest thing that will catch you by surprise in the islands is probably the total lack of industrial support. There just isnt any trucking or equipment or manufacturing there.  Nothing metal is made in hawaii and a mechanic is a guy who fixes cars and weedwackers.    If it isnt sold at home depot then its mail order and the freight on everything is insane.   


This may not be a consideration on your part of the job at all, but for me.. The biggest thing would be maintaining any harvest equipment.  Theres just so few welders, lathes, mills and hose crimpers on those islands.   Probably one of the few times i would say import a brand new machine and hope for the best.  Matson and CSX are the only way anything gets there.  Here in the states you wont have to look too far for too long to find a guy who can work on your iron.  Out there, not so.  I bet Dole and the highway dept own the only tractors in the state.  I dont think i ever saw a single one. 

In general, be aware that the eastern (windward) sides of the islands get the daily rain and as it crosses the mountains the clouds dry.  In summer the western sides are nearly deserts, much more brown and prone to drought.  Winter is wet all over.  Its probably comparable to a asian or central american climate.  I dunno if itll matter but there is also a lot of salt in the air coming off the ocean.  It rots cars very very badly.  Salt powder plus sun just eats away at windshield frames and roof drip rails, any edges.  What will that do to these trees?
Revelation 3:20

Offline mike_belben

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 3570
  • Location: Middle TN
  • Pulp Friction
    • Share Post
Re: Mahogany
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2018, 09:50:18 AM »
is this stuff that grows well in dense clumps or does it need spacing?  Because hawaii is a jungle of sun and rain.. If youve got spaced crowns youre gonna have crazy undergrowth to control.  The bamboo there will grow so tight you cant walk through it. 
Revelation 3:20

Offline nativewolf

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1138
  • Location: Delaplane, VA
  • Forester
    • Share Post
Re: Mahogany
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2018, 09:59:57 AM »
is this stuff that grows well in dense clumps or does it need spacing?  Because hawaii is a jungle of sun and rain.. If youve got spaced crowns youre gonna have crazy undergrowth to control.  The bamboo there will grow so tight you cant walk through it.
Oh in the tropics control of understory is a key issue, that's one reason teak gets planted densely and why teakwood thins several times.  Even then he's fighting to keep nutrients in the trees and not grasses, etc.  They have the same issue for sure in Hawaii but I'm not sure how much moisture Teakwood gets, seems from his photos that it is in the 60" a year kind of level, otherwise moisture deficiency opens up the forest, just too dry and the trees have an advantage. 
 The site is an east facing slope a mile from the ocean so rain should be abundant all season,  looks like a place to grow trees.  You'd get almost no growth ring (in tropics dry season will cause a growth ring) which would be interesting from a manufacturing point of view. 
Liking Walnut

Offline mike_belben

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 3570
  • Location: Middle TN
  • Pulp Friction
    • Share Post
Re: Mahogany
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2018, 10:06:51 PM »
If big island is like oahu, a mile from the windward coast will rain nearly every morning all year.  Winter will have full rainy days but nearly as much sunshine as well.  Im still curious if mahogony is adaptable to the salt.   Id say the coldest temp i felt in 4 years was maybe 55f.  And let me tell you it was freeeeezing.  Like, 'we might die, quick, look in the closet to see if we own a sweatshirt!' cold.
Revelation 3:20

Offline longtime lurker

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1120
  • Location: QLD, Australia
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Mahogany
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2018, 06:15:03 AM »
There are plantings of Swamp Mahogany Eucalyptus robusta (and I also believe Red Mahogany Eucalyptus pellita) in Hawaii. So it might not be Swietenia spp. when they say "Mahogany".

Just sayin' 
The quickest way to make a million dollars with a sawmill is to start with two million.

Offline nativewolf

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1138
  • Location: Delaplane, VA
  • Forester
    • Share Post
Re: Mahogany
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2018, 06:36:55 AM »
There are plantings of Swamp Mahogany Eucalyptus robusta (and I also believe Red Mahogany Eucalyptus pellita) in Hawaii. So it might not be Swietenia spp. when they say "Mahogany".

Just sayin'
Ahh, well that makes sense.  Eucalyptus Robusta; Eucalyptus pellita).  Any idea who harvest them? And what the business case is?   I mean a Euc plantation on the Big Island would have a 8 year to thinning, 15 year to harvest sort of schedule I'd think.  
Liking Walnut

Offline longtime lurker

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1120
  • Location: QLD, Australia
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Mahogany
« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2018, 07:22:55 AM »
I dont know much about robusta... grows well south of here but i do know it was planted there quite extensively about 60 to 80 years back and has gone pretty much feral.

Pellita we cut regularly, both native forest and some plantation material. I think its ideally about a 40 year rotation at a minimum, 60 will give very high quality logs. I was involved in a small way in a study relating to pellita that will tell you much about mid rotation qualities at 18 years old. the link will take you to one of the 4 parts of the study, google will help you find the rest.

http://www.fwpa.com.au/images/resources/FWPA_PN07.3022_Part%20C_0.pdf

The business case is simple: the stuff grows reasonably quickly and cuts a reasonable board with structural properties in juvenile material better then mature white oak has. it is very durable, naturally resistant to termites and decay fungi etc. Here its rated at 30 years in ground durability untreated and we have truly the worlds worst termites. Stuff hurts their teeth so they leave it alone.
And its red, as in red red and attractive. And the chinese love the stuff because it slices quite well to give an attractive grain, and peels quite well to give a veneer that imparts a lot of strength to a ply. And like mot eucalypts the woodchip is premium quality because of fibre length or whatever they grade it on... so it gets a premium price even there. and in Hawaii it would have no native pests or diseases so should grown even better then here.



That is pellita there, logs just big enough to saw 8 x8's with no sap in the corners so probably 20 years or so old. its strong, dont rot, nothing eats it... and the colour sells it.  I love the stuff
The quickest way to make a million dollars with a sawmill is to start with two million.

Offline teakwood

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1133
  • Age: 37
  • Location: Costa Rica
  • Gender: Male
  • Switzerland
    • Share Post
Re: Mahogany
« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2018, 07:32:50 AM »
Nice wood, Aussie.
National Stihl Timbersports Champion Costa Rica 2018

Offline teakwood

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1133
  • Age: 37
  • Location: Costa Rica
  • Gender: Male
  • Switzerland
    • Share Post
Re: Mahogany
« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2018, 07:46:14 AM »
We got around 100" of rain a year with 3-4 month dryseason, temps 22-35degrees (72-95), at sea level. that's pretty much ideal for teak. Teak loves the hot temps, needs lots of water but not too much, a little wind is ok but should not be storm wind or they crack or get damaged.

In the Caribbean side of CR they have 180" of rain year around and teak grows even faster there but does not develop the beautiful dark color in the heartwood so the  price drops significantly. Teak needs some dryseason month so they drop all the leaves and start over growing when the rain comes back, like fall and winter     
National Stihl Timbersports Champion Costa Rica 2018

Offline teakwood

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1133
  • Age: 37
  • Location: Costa Rica
  • Gender: Male
  • Switzerland
    • Share Post
Re: Mahogany
« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2018, 07:49:19 AM »
Salt powder plus sun just eats away at windshield frames and roof drip rails, any edges.  What will that do to these trees?


That's a very good question and i don't know the answer. would be interesting to know if teak or mahogany adapts to the salt. maybe somebody knows and will chime in
National Stihl Timbersports Champion Costa Rica 2018

Offline nativewolf

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1138
  • Location: Delaplane, VA
  • Forester
    • Share Post
Re: Mahogany
« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2018, 07:56:56 AM »
Very nice pictures of the Pellita.  I can imagine that would be a hit in China.  Rotation length is surprising to me, I'd have though with the moderate clime you'd be able to push that along like a P. radiata; ie large sawlogs in 20 years.  So it is a slow growing Euc compared to others?   Very cool tree, thanks for sharing!

Liking Walnut


Share via delicious Share via digg Share via facebook Share via linkedin Share via pinterest Share via reddit Share via stumble Share via tumblr Share via twitter

xx
mahogany

Started by riverlog on Drying and Processing

2 Replies
1123 Views
Last post August 10, 2008, 06:00:43 PM
by riverlog
xx
mahogany or oak and its value

Started by rebocardo on General Board

5 Replies
945 Views
Last post January 01, 2008, 09:04:41 PM
by metalspinner
question
Mahogany. Where can I get it?

Started by robedwards58 on Sawmills and Milling

21 Replies
2084 Views
Last post June 07, 2014, 04:37:37 PM
by POSTON WIDEHEAD
xx
Mahogany (?) Log.

Started by Fla._Deadheader on Sawmills and Milling

3 Replies
1212 Views
Last post April 23, 2004, 06:16:12 PM
by Fla._Deadheader
 


Powered by EzPortal