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Author Topic: How is this possible, my saw started running backwards.  (Read 2896 times)

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Offline 21incher

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How is this possible, my saw started running backwards.
« on: April 28, 2018, 08:02:51 PM »
Yesterday I got out my Echo CS 590 that had been sitting since last October to start knocking down some trees for firewood. Took 5 pulls to start and it made a funny noise / kick and it started running with the chain turning backwards :o. Took me a couple seconds to realize it before I shut it down but it ran pretty good for that time. Shut it down restarted it and all was fine. Ran fine all afternoon. Doesn't seem possible that a motor can run backwards.
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Offline barbender

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Re: How is this possible, my saw started running backwards.
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2018, 08:29:56 PM »
Detroit Diesels did it all the time. If you lugged the engine to a near stall and then released the load, they would start backwards.
Too many irons in the fire

Offline sawguy21

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Re: How is this possible, my saw started running backwards.
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2018, 08:31:39 PM »
A two stroke motor can run backwards. It is how many railroad speeders operated, to reverse them the engine was throttled back to a dead slow idle, the piston hit compression then kicked back and the throttle was opened. Ignition timing has to be very close to tdc.The old Detroit diesels were known to do it if the driver wasn't paying attention :D.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

Offline Dave Shepard

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Re: How is this possible, my saw started running backwards.
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2018, 08:45:03 PM »
4 strokes can do it,  too. I stalled my Kubota winching a big log,  and the weight of the log pulled the cable out like a pull starter. The engine started unning backwards. The oil light came on and a ton of black smoke stated blowing out of the air cleaner.  :o
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Offline Al_Smith

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Re: How is this possible, my saw started running backwards.
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2018, 10:13:03 PM »
Gasoline powered golf carts will run in both directions .On a recoil start chainsaw I'd almost have to think you would tear the recoil or starter dogs off .If it ran very long you'd spin the clutch off .Not good .

Offline Don P

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Re: How is this possible, my saw started running backwards.
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2018, 10:40:25 PM »
I remember the car guys talking on their show one day about one of them with a little 2 stoke foreign car challenging a muscle car to a race, in reverse. He roll started it backwards in 1st gear, which gave him 4 reverse gears ;D.

Offline 21incher

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Re: How is this possible, my saw started running backwards.
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2018, 07:40:35 AM »
Gasoline powered golf carts will run in both directions .On a recoil start chainsaw I'd almost have to think you would tear the recoil or starter dogs off .If it ran very long you'd spin the clutch off .Not good .


Took me a couple seconds to realize it was running backwards and shut it off but it ran good with no strange noises. I never thought about checking the clutch before restarting but I probably should have. Good thing the chain brake was off. :)
Hudson HFE-21 on a custom trailer, Deere 4100, Kubota BX 2360, Echo CS590 & CS310, home built wood splitter, home built log arch, and a Logrite cant hook.

Offline thecfarm

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Re: How is this possible, my saw started running backwards.
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2018, 08:30:01 AM »
Did you put the oil in the gas tank and and gas in the oil tank?  :D
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Offline sawguy21

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Re: How is this possible, my saw started running backwards.
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2018, 12:05:49 PM »
 :D  The clutch would likely not come loose unless you put a load on the chain. I once had a customer complain his new chain would not cut, it was on backwards. He realized that but wanted to cut with the top of the bar.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

Offline gspren

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Re: How is this possible, my saw started running backwards.
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2018, 12:59:04 PM »
 I once had a Bultaco dirt bike start backwards :o it did a kickback but started and when I popped the clutch it jumped back and stalled, I probably grabbed the brakes. Only ever did it once.
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Offline Crusarius

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Re: How is this possible, my saw started running backwards.
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2018, 01:20:30 PM »
my snowmobile does it every time I hit the RER button. instead of using a heavy gearbox they use what is called RER. I think it  stands for reverse engine rotation. It shuts the engine down and restarts running opposite direction. When your done backing up it does the same shutdown and restarts in forward.

pretty kool setup. saves a bunch of weight and hardware.
I knew what I thought I meant.

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: How is this possible, my saw started running backwards.
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2018, 04:20:26 PM »
That's basically the way the golf carts are .You put it whatever direction you want to go and hit the gas pedal .If you let off the gas it stops .Golfers are a breed of their own and don't want all that noise .Fact I'm not even sure if golf courses use the gassers .E-Z-Go makes them and people just use them to scoot around camp grounds etc with them .

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: How is this possible, my saw started running backwards.
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2018, 04:24:30 PM »
Now that deal about spinning off the clutch.Never and I repeat never change a clutch and get the bright idea to fire up the saw without a chain on it .I had one orbit my garage and nearly hit my wifes Cadillac with me ducking for my life .Lesson learned . :o

Offline JJ

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Re: How is this possible, my saw started running backwards.
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2018, 08:12:03 PM »
I had a friend with what I think I remember an old sears outboard, with fly wheel sticking out the top.   to start it, you had to wind the starter rope around the fly wheel, and tell the other guy in the boat to duck to avoid being whipped.   To go in reverse, you wound the rope on backwards

     JJ

Offline 21incher

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Re: How is this possible, my saw started running backwards.
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2018, 08:46:29 PM »
Did you put the oil in the gas tank and and gas in the oil tank?  :D


No but I treated it to that canned non ethanol fuel when I put it away last fall. Maybe it needs the ethanol that I usually feed it. ;D

Thanks everyone I never knew this was possible. I learn something new everyday on the Forestry Forum. :)
Hudson HFE-21 on a custom trailer, Deere 4100, Kubota BX 2360, Echo CS590 & CS310, home built wood splitter, home built log arch, and a Logrite cant hook.

Offline sawguy21

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Re: How is this possible, my saw started running backwards.
« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2018, 09:38:26 PM »
Now that deal about spinning off the clutch.Never and I repeat never change a clutch and get the bright idea to fire up the saw without a chain on it .I had one orbit my garage and nearly hit my wifes Cadillac with me ducking for my life .Lesson learned . :o
I learned that one too, good thing the other tech wasn't in the shop. ;D
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: How is this possible, my saw started running backwards.
« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2018, 07:11:53 PM »
Oh I've spun off more that just clutches .A flywheel from a gear drive Sears and Roebuck chainsaw  for one .Another time the head from a weed wacker that flew down my 500 foot driveway  at about 100 miles per and as far as know tried to get to lake Erie 90 miles to the north .
Having mentioned that another helpful tip .Don't try to start an engine with a drill motor with a socket on the flywheel nut .The nut and the flywheel will leave ---quickly .--run rabbit run --- :D  

Offline TIDE-HSV

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Re: How is this possible, my saw started running backwards.
« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2018, 12:47:26 AM »
I drove Benz diesels for thirty years and had it happen once (they are, of course, 4 stroke). I inadvertently ran out of fuel. Back in the 70s, diesel fuel was notorious for being dirty, so dirty that most of us put a quart of ATF in with each tank to burn out the water. The fuel killed the fuel gauge sensor on the first couple I had and it was guesswork as to when it would run out. Running out on the earlier diesels was a Pain. With most, it involved diving under the hood and priming the injector pump manually with a handle - no matter what clothes you might have on. Didn't matter. They were ruined. Anyway, once I managed to run out at TDC. When it started, it was belching thick black smoke under the hood. It took about ten seconds for me to realize what happened and shut the fuel off (only way to kill a diesel). When I restarted, just as with the OP's chainsaw, it restarted normally...
I would rather live my life as if there is a god and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and die to find out there is. Albert Camus

Offline weimedog

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Re: How is this possible, my saw started running backwards.
« Reply #18 on: May 07, 2018, 07:43:18 AM »
I had an old GMC 7500 Dump truck, actually an old Wyoming State plow truck. Tandem Axle (44K) heavy front for the size of the truck (16K) and a 12 ft box. Two lift rams...and used it for spreading road base on the steep hills in the Colorado Foot Hills 15-20 years ago. The thing had an 5x4 two stick transmission setup and a 6v53T ear buster for a motor. Ran out of power going up a real steep hill. with the box part way up, too steep to spread down hill.... and next thing I know I'm headed backwards under power with all this smoke billowing out the front and all this noise! A real butt pucker moment to say the least..:) BUT I'm still here so the story had a good end. That truck eventually was sold at auction in Ft. Collins...it was green... LOL Had LOTS of memories in that thing. Ears still ringing too.
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Offline Woodcutter_Mo

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Re: How is this possible, my saw started running backwards.
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2018, 05:59:25 PM »
 I've heard of a saw running backwards, I don't remember what would cause it to do it but that particular saw would do it fairly often.  :o

 Also I've heard about people stalling a Detroit 2 stroke diesel powered truck on a hill and have it start running backwards. 
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Offline sawguy21

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Re: How is this possible, my saw started running backwards.
« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2018, 11:35:28 PM »
I had an old GMC 7500 Dump truck, actually an old Wyoming State plow truck. Tandem Axle (44K) heavy front for the size of the truck (16K) and a 12 ft box. Two lift rams...and used it for spreading road base on the steep hills in the Colorado Foot Hills 15-20 years ago. The thing had an 5x4 two stick transmission setup and a 6v53T ear buster for a motor. Ran out of power going up a real steep hill. with the box part way up, too steep to spread down hill.... and next thing I know I'm headed backwards under power with all this smoke billowing out the front and all this noise! A real butt pucker moment to say the least..:) BUT I'm still here so the story had a good end. That truck eventually was sold at auction in Ft. Collins...it was green... LOL Had LOTS of memories in that thing. Ears still ringing too.
20 gears in reverse! WOW!! :D :D :D
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

Offline Don P

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Re: How is this possible, my saw started running backwards.
« Reply #21 on: May 08, 2018, 07:50:22 AM »
Wheee :D

I was reading the manual for the Kubota yesterday and there was a short paragraph on what to do if it started in reverse. Basically, shut 'er down quick, it's going dry and can also ignite the air filter.

Offline Iwawoodwork

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Re: How is this possible, my saw started running backwards.
« Reply #22 on: May 08, 2018, 02:43:06 PM »
How about the Mercury outboards?  I had a white 4 cylinder, around 60-70 hp and it was a direct drive that ran backwards for reverse, was probably manufactured in the 1960's.

Offline weimedog

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Re: How is this possible, my saw started running backwards.
« Reply #23 on: May 08, 2018, 11:38:27 PM »
I had an old GMC 7500 Dump truck, actually an old Wyoming State plow truck. Tandem Axle (44K) heavy front for the size of the truck (16K) and a 12 ft box. Two lift rams...and used it for spreading road base on the steep hills in the Colorado Foot Hills 15-20 years ago. The thing had an 5x4 two stick transmission setup and a 6v53T ear buster for a motor. Ran out of power going up a real steep hill. with the box part way up, too steep to spread down hill.... and next thing I know I'm headed backwards under power with all this smoke billowing out the front and all this noise! A real butt pucker moment to say the least..:) BUT I'm still here so the story had a good end. That truck eventually was sold at auction in Ft. Collins...it was green... LOL Had LOTS of memories in that thing. Ears still ringing too.
20 gears in reverse! WOW!! :D :D :D
Worked for this dairy out there, in the Longmont area..:) And they were into selling compost. We would use those trucks to haul the manure from cleaning pens up to this area where they would mix it up with top soil......and the sloppy stuff sometimes too out of their "pit". It was fun to up shift back wards and pop the gate / hit the brakes and watch in the mirror the splash....my newer trucks of that time didn't have that.....With the thirteen speed road rangers high range in reverse was too tall. ( County trucks I just retired from driving with their 18spds would let you get started in reverse, then go to high range.....we were heading backwards in those county trucks are close to 20mph...all summer long keeping up with the chippers and other stuff :) )
Husqvarna 365sp/372xpw Blend, 365/Huztl 52mm build (Cyclops),562xp "HTSS", 272XP, 61/272XP, 555, 257, 242, 238, 440e, Homelite 540, S-XL 925, XP-1020A, Super XL (Dad's saw); Jonsered 2094, Three 920's, CS-2172, 49sp, 621; Solo 603; 3 Huztl MS660's (2 54mm and 1 56mm)

Offline weimedog

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Re: How is this possible, my saw started running backwards.
« Reply #24 on: May 08, 2018, 11:42:03 PM »
How about the Mercury outboards?  I had a white 4 cylinder, around 60-70 hp and it was a direct drive that ran backwards for reverse, was probably manufactured in the 1960's.
Some of the old merc's were called "Dock busters" because they literally ran the motors in reverse vs. having a geared reverse in the lower units...:) Most were the in line 6's
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Offline teakwood

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Re: How is this possible, my saw started running backwards.
« Reply #25 on: June 11, 2018, 08:47:07 AM »
:D  The clutch would likely not come loose unless you put a load on the chain. I once had a customer complain his new chain would not cut, it was on backwards. He realized that but wanted to cut with the top of the bar.
 oh man, that's a good one!!
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Offline Hilltop366

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Re: How is this possible, my saw started running backwards.
« Reply #26 on: June 11, 2018, 12:00:47 PM »
Just tell him to put the chain on the regular way and flip the bar over.  ;D

Offline petefrom bearswamp

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Re: How is this possible, my saw started running backwards.
« Reply #27 on: June 11, 2018, 07:19:48 PM »
Had this happen to my Echo cs600p.
Had been running it a while then shut it off.
When I went to start it it back fired and then I had to pull several times to get it going.
I was bucking a White pine log and the thing wasn't cutting for crap.
Thats when I noticed the chain running backwards.
Shut it off and it took many pulls to get started again but then performed normally
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