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Author Topic: 12 inch wide oak  (Read 3391 times)

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Offline Brad_bb

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12 inch wide oak
« on: April 29, 2018, 11:45:58 PM »
So I want to use 12 inch white oak flat sawn boards for paneling, circle sawn to be exact.  I know drying flat becomes an issue, but what if I cut them thinner, like 3/4?  Will weight on the stack help keep them in place?  I'm thinking if I saw them thinner, they will be more flexible and maybe weight on the stack will help keep them in place while air drying?  Also being thinner,  their flexibility will allow them to be flattened out when face screwing them in place?

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Offline GeneWengert-WoodDoc

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Re: 12 inch wide oak
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2018, 06:41:10 AM »
What size are your logs, as a flat sawn wide piece away from the pith will require at least a 20 diameter log.  Also, what will you do with all the narrower pieces of oak and the pieces closer to the pith that will cup quite a bit and will have many knots, leading to distortion in the area around the knots?  Even if you can hold the pieces somewhat flat at the contact area with the stickers, you cannot hold the wide pieces flat between the stickers.  If you decrease the sticker spacing to 12 instead of 24, the weight at each sticker is cut in half because there are twice as many stickers.  Less weight means more warp.

Thinner lumber will help, but 3/4 oak is not very thin.

Top weights can help...usually 10 thick of concrete is required to get good benefits.  The warping force is huge, so lots of weight is needed.

Lumber will be flatter if you can avoid rain or melting snow contact.

Now, the humidity in a home does vary from summertime to wintertime.  As a result, flat pieces will move slightly from season to season.  That is, drying does not make pieces stable.  So, you can expect at least 0.1 movement in width.  Screws will not prevent this width shrinkage.  Also, the tendency to cup with these seasonal humidity changes cannot be well controlled with screws...get large enough screws space close together to hold the wood and then the wood will crack.

Bottom line is, unless you want a unsmooth paneled wall (rustic), this is not very likely to be a successful project.
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Offline WDH

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Re: 12 inch wide oak
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2018, 07:03:20 AM »
I would saw them thicker, and once they are kiln dried, you can plane them to the finished thickness after flattening one face.  However, you will need a least a 12" jointer. 
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Offline PA_Walnut

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Re: 12 inch wide oak
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2018, 07:15:00 AM »
Double-down on the labor and quartersaw them. Of course, won't be as wide, but will be more stable and PRETTY!  8)
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Offline Don P

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Re: 12 inch wide oak
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2018, 07:23:58 AM »
We are planing the barn siding I'm waiting to dry but that will not yield a sawn face. We sawed 5/4 hoping to finish around 7/8", mostly 6 and 12" hoping to use the wide boards on the north road side. We'll break down the severely cupped boards. I'm not at all sure we sawed enough 12" to get enough finished flat, considerable cupping going on at that width. At 6" they have been flatter, crook has been an issue and would be in QS as well. For wide paneling you can maybe kerf the backs to relax the cupping but that might just promote cracks later with seasonal movement. Without reworking it oak is pretty rustic wood.

Offline moodnacreek

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Re: 12 inch wide oak
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2018, 07:33:14 AM »
Above replies are accurate, nothing I could add.

Offline mike_belben

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Re: 12 inch wide oak
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2018, 07:40:03 AM »
At what thickness do flat sawn red and white oaks start to get more stability?  Say in 10 and 12" width.  
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Offline scsmith42

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Re: 12 inch wide oak
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2018, 12:10:50 PM »
Brad, I've had some success doing this utilizing a couple of different methods.

Method 1.  Mill to produce a 5/4 dry board (1-3/8" green), fully dry, resaw down the middle and plane to thickness.  The biggest challenge with doing this is getting the board the exact same MC% between core and shell.  If you don't have it close, the boards will cup coming off of the resaw.

Method 2.  Saw at 1", sticker on 12" spacing and weight the stacks with concrete slabs.  I have old concrete sidewalk slabs that I use for this purpose.  After complete drying S2S to desired thickness.
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Offline Brad_bb

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Re: 12 inch wide oak
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2018, 07:27:42 PM »
Let me clarify a couple things here.  

1. Danny, I want a circle sawn finish on one side.  So that rules out planing the boards to thickness.  

2. I want the pieces about 12 inches wide.  

3. Thickness is really not critical.  In some places I will need a bit thinner panel to slip behind a timber.  This material will line the walls of the stairwell in my timber framed shop.  

4. I'm planning on cutting 12.5 inch cants on my band saw and then taking those over to the circle sawyer to slice into boards.  I will need to specify thickness to him, which I have yet to determine based on this thread.

An option would be kerfing the back side of the boards?  Anyone done that successfully?  If so how deep and how far apart?

Scott, you're saying rip a 5/4 board into two 2/4 boards?  To do this though, you couldn't have any up in the original board, eh?

PA_Walnut, You'd need some awfully big logs to get 12 inch quarter sawn boards.  That would look awesome.  Mine are probably in the 24-30 inch range.  I don't think I have enough for this task though, so I will have to buy the remainder from the circle sawyer.

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Offline Don P

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Re: 12 inch wide oak
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2018, 09:18:53 PM »
This past weekend a friend was saying he kerfed one of our slabs that was cupped and layed it back down. I don't know the particulars but it sounded like he did quite a few and pretty deep. The potential of it splitting concerns me.

When we were building milled log homes the siding was very often not flat on the backside and wouldn't seat well. I wasn't as concerned with the face thickness uniformity as I was with getting the edges to meet well. I imagine this is similar, you can accept some amount of concave cupping of the face as long as the edges meet reasonably well. I would run a few passes with the power planer on the backside of thesiding to create a relief. This would let the siding bear against the sheathing just on the edges rather than rocking and creating ugly joints between boards. With this if you run them through the planer concave face down it would do pretty much the same thing, the edges would be uniform and the faces would be concave to whatever degree is your cutoff tolerance. If the feed pressure flattens them and they spring back then a relief would be one solution. With that method you would then need to think about whether to inset the trim or accept that cupped face degree of gapping.

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Re: 12 inch wide oak
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2018, 12:15:19 AM »
Thanks.  I might rip  the edges after drying, or I might color the sheathing dark and just butt the edges as well as I can, or maybe leaving a uniform 3/16 gap?

Just an FYI, I'm setting up to do some test pieces ammonia fuming tomorrow. If it works well, I am thinking I'll fume the oak paneling so it looks older.  That is what I'm planning to do to the two interior Q-sawn doors I had built.  More on those later in a separate post.
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Offline scsmith42

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Re: 12 inch wide oak
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2018, 10:58:06 AM »


Scott, you're saying rip a 5/4 board into two 2/4 boards?  To do this though, you couldn't have any up in the original board, eh?


Brad, it seems as if thin lumber (<3/4") tends to distort more in the drying process than thicker lumber, unless it is stickered very close and weighted.  So the advantage of milling 5/4 and then resawing is that the boards tend to stay flatter while drying; albeit at a cost of a longer drying process.
I've successfully dried 3/4" green boards, but with close stickering and heavy weights on top.  
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Re: 12 inch wide oak
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2018, 08:41:42 PM »
I'm taking your point in Scott.  Mill thick enough to later slice into two boards, for a better chance of reducing cupping.  So if my kerf is about 1/8", and I want two boards that are about 3/4 after slicing(assuming no cupping).  That will give me room to plane on the back side if needed.  So that adds to 1 5/8".  How much will that shrink?  1/8"?  Adding the shrinkage would make is 1 3/4" green.  I could air dry them for awhile (6 months?) before putting them in the kiln(I don't have one... but I know a guy).  Any tips on kiln settings for this.  It's a Nyle/woodmizer kiln.  I think it's a 4000BF unit. He loads it with 2500-2800 BF.
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Offline GeneWengert-WoodDoc

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Re: 12 inch wide oak
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2018, 06:28:34 AM »
I know of a company in northern WI that would use a 6/4 thick green piece of lumber, around 1.625.  After drying, it was 8 % thinner max, buts most were 7% thinner.  So, 1.45.  Then they jointed and planed both faces with cup and surface roughness being eliminated.  I no longer recall the finished thickness, but would think it would be 1.32.  Then they put two tongues and two grooves on the edges and then resawed into two pieces with a band saw. They then had two flat, t&g pieces, 0.6 thick with smooth on one side and rough on the other..
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Offline scsmith42

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Re: 12 inch wide oak
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2018, 08:32:01 PM »
I'm taking your point in Scott.  Mill thick enough to later slice into two boards, for a better chance of reducing cupping.  So if my kerf is about 1/8", and I want two boards that are about 3/4 after slicing(assuming no cupping).  That will give me room to plane on the back side if needed.  So that adds to 1 5/8".  How much will that shrink?  1/8"?  Adding the shrinkage would make is 1 3/4" green.  I could air dry them for awhile (6 months?) before putting them in the kiln(I don't have one... but I know a guy).  Any tips on kiln settings for this.  It's a Nyle/woodmizer kiln.  I think it's a 4000BF unit. He loads it with 2500-2800 BF.
Depending upon where in the log the boards are milled from, your drying related shrinkage will be between 6% - 12% of green thickness.
Using your numbers, 1-5/8" dry will resaw into a pair of 3/4" boards.  Since you want the circular kerf to show you won't need to plane the outside.
For drying related shrinkage, figure between 1/8" - 1/4" depending upon the location in the log.
After 6 months of air drying 1-3/4" - 1-7/8" white oak the core of the board will be around 45% MC, give or take.  If you then load into the Woodmizer kiln you will need to have a system for adding moisture back into the kiln (I use a high pressure fogging system in mine).  You'll need to keep the RH% up around 95%, give or take, for about 60 days at 90F.
8/4 white oak is around a 4 month kiln run in an L200, and that's with a fogging system.  You will get a lot of mold development on the outside of the lumber unless you treat it with a fungicide after milling.
The biggest challenge with all of this is getting the thick boards the same MC% in the core and the shell.  If it varies, they will cup after resawing.
Gene - correct me if I'm wrong, this is just my personal experience.
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Re: 12 inch wide oak
« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2018, 01:29:06 PM »
60 days in the kiln?  wow!  To reduce that should I air dry longer?
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Offline GeneWengert-WoodDoc

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Re: 12 inch wide oak
« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2018, 04:18:53 PM »
Scsmith42, I do agree with most.  I do think that since the wood has been exposed for 6 months to 80 F and 65% RH on the average, you could go into the kiln at the same RH and 90 or 95 F.  But I would suggest that for the first week, run the fans 18 hours a day.

Two advantages of planing the dry lumber before resawing are that you have a flat reference surface for the resaw.  Plus every piece will be the same thickness after resawing.
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Re: 12 inch wide oak
« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2018, 07:02:18 PM »
Gene, that would defeat the  whole point.  The thick slab is circle sawn on two sides.  The plan is to then saw down the middle with my bandmill. If you plane the thick slab, you would be planing off the circle sawn marks.
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Re: 12 inch wide oak
« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2018, 08:04:23 PM »
 :P With interest.  

I have a need for this type of paneling, or 4/4 wood.
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Re: 12 inch wide oak
« Reply #19 on: May 03, 2018, 09:58:23 PM »
I could air dry them for awhile (6 months?) before putting them in the kiln(I don't have one... but I know a guy).  Any tips on kiln settings for this.  It's a Nyle/woodmizer kiln. . .
. . . . the boards will be around 45% MC, give or take.  If you then load into the Woodmizer kiln you will need to have a system for adding moisture back into the kiln (I use a high pressure fogging system in mine).  You'll need to keep the RH% up around 95%, give or take, for about 60 days at 90F.
8/4 white oak is around a 4 month kiln run in an L200, and that's with a fogging system. . . 
The biggest challenge with all of this is getting the thick boards the same MC% in the core and the shell.  If it varies, they will cup after resawing. . . . 

So, if I've got this right, 2 months of 95% RH and another 2 months of a 'normal' white oak drying cycle after that? . . . and speciality fogging systems in the kiln?
All to get uniform dryness from core to surface? 
Seems like a lot of fussing around.
Suggestion, once you have your lumber milled, air dry for a much longer time (Brad, you said 6 months?).
Stack, sticker and strap with loading straps. As the stack shrinks, ratchet up the strap tension to keep the lumber under pressure and straight. 
Air dry as if you were aging whiskey in the cask, until the core and surface have equal MC's.
Then run the kiln cycle to take down the bound moisture in the wood.
Would this work ?
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Re: 12 inch wide oak
« Reply #20 on: May 03, 2018, 10:43:07 PM »
All that, or...... put it in a solar kiln and wait it out.  

When the board is ripped down the neutral axis it will in effect be a full size prong test, and could end up like this.

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Re: 12 inch wide oak
« Reply #21 on: May 04, 2018, 04:35:17 PM »
If you set in out for air drying in January, around 6 months to get under 25%MC, depending on the weather.  Set in in April and then maybe 90 days.  

Actually, if air dried to 25% MC, there will minimal casehardening stress as the high humidity every morning will remove the stress.  Also appreciate that when most pieces are 25% MC, there will be a few drier and a few wetter pieces.

As the outer shell of the wood will be accustomed to an air drying condition of 12% to 13% EMC, if you put it into the kiln at 95% RH (which is very difficult to obtain and hold as it is just 1 degree F away from condensation and even at 95% RH mold grows well), the surface will swell and drive any existing checks deeper.  Plus, at 95% RH, the EMC is around 25% EMC, so there will be no drying.  Further, it is difficult to accurately measure 95% RH with conventional kiln controls.
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Re: 12 inch wide oak
« Reply #22 on: May 04, 2018, 05:19:24 PM »
If you set in out for air drying in January, easily 6 months to get under 25%MC.  Set in in April and then maybe 90 days.  

Actually, if air dried to
Gene, 6 months to air dry 7/4 white oak from green to below 25%?
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Re: 12 inch wide oak
« Reply #23 on: May 04, 2018, 05:21:45 PM »
I could air dry them for awhile (6 months?) before putting them in the kiln(I don't have one... but I know a guy).  Any tips on kiln settings for this.  It's a Nyle/woodmizer kiln. . .
. . . . the boards will be around 45% MC, give or take.  If you then load into the Woodmizer kiln you will need to have a system for adding moisture back into the kiln (I use a high pressure fogging system in mine).  You'll need to keep the RH% up around 95%, give or take, for about 60 days at 90F.
8/4 white oak is around a 4 month kiln run in an L200, and that's with a fogging system. . .
The biggest challenge with all of this is getting the thick boards the same MC% in the core and the shell.  If it varies, they will cup after resawing. . . .

So, if I've got this right, 2 months of 95% RH and another 2 months of a 'normal' white oak drying cycle after that? . . . and speciality fogging systems in the kiln?
All to get uniform dryness from core to surface?
Seems like a lot of fussing around.
Suggestion, once you have your lumber milled, air dry for a much longer time (Brad, you said 6 months?).
Stack, sticker and strap with loading straps. As the stack shrinks, ratchet up the strap tension to keep the lumber under pressure and straight.
Air dry as if you were aging whiskey in the cask, until the core and surface have equal MC's.
Then run the kiln cycle to take down the bound moisture in the wood.
Would this work ?
Your method would work if Brad had the time.  Gene doesn't think that the 95% RH would be required after 6 months of air drying so just a couple of months of "normal" WO schedule after that.
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Re: 12 inch wide oak
« Reply #24 on: May 05, 2018, 07:29:50 AM »
I just noticed the message I posted was cut short.  Here is the missing part


Actually, if air dried to 25% MC, there will minimal casehardening stress as the high humidity every morning will remove the stress.  Also appreciate that when most pieces are 25% MC, there will be a few drier and a few wetter pieces.

As the outer shell of the wood will be accustomed to an air drying condition of 12% to 13% EMC, if you put it into the kiln at 95% RH (which is very difficult to obtain and hold as it is just 1 degree F away from condensation and even at 95% RH mold grows well), the surface will swell and drive any existing checks deeper.  Plus, at 95% RH, the EMC is around 25% EMC, so there will be no drying.  Further, it is difficult to accurately measure 95% RH with conventional kiln controls.
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Re: 12 inch wide oak
« Reply #25 on: May 05, 2018, 08:46:38 AM »
 Im doing my best to keep up with this discussion and not get lost. I am not necessarily limited to six months. Would the ideal thing to do be to let it air dry longer?  Are we trying to get to a certain moisture percentage I i.e. 25%?  Is that what I want before going to the kiln?  This will be for the stairwell of my new shop.
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Re: 12 inch wide oak
« Reply #26 on: May 05, 2018, 09:59:51 PM »
It is a trade off between the time and costs to air drying (under a roof) to a lower MC (as the outside air is 12 to 13% EMC and with thicker stock, you probably can air dry in year to 18% MC) versus the time and cost in the kiln.  As a rough idea, you will lose about 0.4% MC per day in the kiln.  So, if the wettest  lumber in the kiln is 26% MC versus 22% MC, the drying time will be 10 days longer.  A day in the kiln is around $20 per day per 1000 bf, including profit.  On the other hand, air drying is not free.
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

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Re: 12 inch wide oak
« Reply #27 on: May 06, 2018, 09:45:16 AM »
Gene, the guy close to me here wanted $1/BF for ash that was in the kiln 4 weeks.  I actually don't know if he's done oak.  I seem to remember him saying something about not wanting to do oak.  Maybe he tried once and had a bad experience? Wrong parameters maybe?  That's why I'm trying to get the details for drying to advise him.
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Re: 12 inch wide oak
« Reply #28 on: July 10, 2018, 09:50:38 AM »
Scsmith42 and GeneWengert-WoodDoc,
I've been re-reading this post again.  Couple questions.
1. What would be the most preferable way to dry the 1.75 thick pieces?  Would it be a long air dry?  To dry undercover, I have two options - in a Morton building that gets about 10 degrees warmer than outside in the summer, or in an air conditioned shop.  I'm worried about case hardening -having tension in the shell.  Would either of these cause that?  I'm thinking the low humidity of the AC shop would dry too fast.  
2. Gene you mentioned humidity in the morning when drying from Jan-June.  I'm in IL, and worried my conditions would be different - colder longer with not enough humidity until June.  This June was very hot and humid, but before was not.

Given the kiln requirements mentioned, I don't know where I'd find a kiln that will really know how to handle the oak/kiln settings.  This job will use about 1400 Board feet.  I'm not sure who'd want to dry this for the long times Scott mentioned?  4 months?  6 months? Is it preferable to air dry for longer?  Given my location, is there a better time of year to cut and start drying?
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Re: 12 inch wide oak
« Reply #29 on: July 10, 2018, 10:31:18 PM »
The preferable drying technique would be air drying in an open shed- -roof but fairly open walls.  For thicker oak we might use burlap to slow air flow if the building is too open.  Does your building have a large door so you could put the lumber in the building near the open door so you would get some, but not too much, air flow?  You would also get no rain or sun, which is good.  We would not want the door open for times when the RH is much under 60% RH for the first month.  Air speed and RH work together.  An I-phone weather app gives current RH for its location.  I would watch closely for any afternoon checking (checks close when the RH increases evenings and mornings) and would expect 100 days minimum drying time to achieve around 22% MC. 

Casehardening is removed every night when the outside approaches 100% RH.

Kiln drying time would be around 30 days.
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

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Re: 12 inch wide oak
« Reply #30 on: July 11, 2018, 08:22:59 AM »
1.75 thick oak pieces can be dried successfully with controlled air drying, especially in the summer.  Typically, I place these types of stacks in the center of my air drying area shed, covered, out of the wind, with locally higher MC stacks surrounding it.  As they start to dry out, I rotate them more to the outside.

Winter is best, but it can be done other times with care.

My typical process for this thickness of oak is careful air drying, then overloaded into a solar kiln, then finished and sterilized in the Nyle.  Works fine this way.  

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Re: 12 inch wide oak
« Reply #31 on: July 11, 2018, 08:43:06 AM »
My typical process for this thickness of oak is careful air drying, then overloaded into a solar kiln, then finished and sterilized in the Nyle.  Works fine this way.  
This is how I do it as well.  Overloading the solar kiln reduces the drying rate.  
Genes original guidance to me on collector size when I built my solar kilns was to maintain a 1:10 ratio in collector size for 4/4 oak; ie 100 square feet of collector for 1000 board feet of 4/4 oak.  
When I dry 8/4 oak, Ill block off 60% of the collector initially or increase the load size by a similar amount at the start of the solar drying process in order to reduce the drying rate.
As the wood dries down Ill gradually remove some of the collector blocking until Im back at 1:10.
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
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Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

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Re: 12 inch wide oak
« Reply #32 on: July 11, 2018, 05:15:54 PM »
Out of Curiosity, how do you block the collector?

So If we are interested in slowing down the drying initially, wouldn't my Morton shed be good for that?  There would be very little airflow.  The temp wouldn't be as much as a solar kiln, but 8-10 degrees or so above the outside temp.  There is some air exchange I'm sure with the cracks/openings in the sliding doors.  You can sometimes tell when you go to shut the walk in door there's a slight pressure.  

I don't have a solar kiln.  I'm seriously considering building one or three.
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
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Re: 12 inch wide oak
« Reply #33 on: July 11, 2018, 06:52:31 PM »
Sounds like you might also be ready to build a machine to put circle saw scratch marks on your resawn boards :)
aka oldnorskie

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Re: 12 inch wide oak
« Reply #34 on: July 11, 2018, 11:03:24 PM »
Any structure can be used as a kiln or controlled drying area as long as it has the characteristics of a proper drying area for that particular wood species, thickness, and current moisture content.  It should have the correct airflow velocity for the species being dried, proper air venting to maintain proper WB and DB levels, proper flooring and proper temperature control.

For most red oak the maximum general safe moisture removal rate is about 3.5% per day, and for white oak, its about 2.5% per day for 4/4 wood.  I generally divide those numbers by the multiple of the thickness so 1.75 inch thick red oak can tolerate about 2% per day, max, and white oak about 1.4% per day.  Also, for oak I like to have no more than 150 feet per minute airflow through the stacks.  So any box, shipping container, garage, shed, etc that can meet these properties will work.

Green oak will give up its moisture readily, in fact too readily, and will blow through these max allowable moisture removal rates pretty easily, even when air drying, or if left uncontrolled in an enclosed space.

So with thick green oak, its about slow drying and control.    
 
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Re: 12 inch wide oak
« Reply #35 on: July 12, 2018, 12:19:10 AM »
We do need air flow, proper RH and some warmth.  To achieve the proper air flow is difficult in a building without fans, so putting the lumber near an open door will help.  Also, as the water is evaporated into the building, the RH will rise, so you need some venting to the outside.  With thick oak, we do not like any temperatures over 100 F.  So, all three environmental variables need to be correct and they work together.  To help us, we monitor the daily drying rate of the wood.
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Re: 12 inch wide oak
« Reply #36 on: July 12, 2018, 04:15:26 PM »
Out of Curiosity, how do you block the collector?

So If we are interested in slowing down the drying initially, wouldn't my Morton shed be good for that?  There would be very little airflow. 


Brad, I block part of the collector with either a tarp or a piece of landscape fabric.
Airflow is important to drying and prevention of mold growth.  Even if you put them in your Morton shed you would need some air exchange (to get rid of the humidity) and some gentle airflow across the stacks.
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Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

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Re: 12 inch wide oak
« Reply #37 on: July 16, 2018, 11:47:25 PM »
Flat sawn may not make it to the resaw without a fair amount of damage. We needed a few oak boards and didnt have any in our stash.  Grabbed a 28 x 6 white oak log off the firewood log stack that we knew had flaws in it. Flat sawn at 5/4 and then retrimmed sides into a few boards. Stacked the balance of the flat sawn slabs on a pallet by the mill. 2 weeks later I notice a couple of the slabs look decent for boards but cracks had already started in the center ends. Grabbed a couple and ripped down the center to save if possible. Those boards had a good 1 bow after center rip. No doubt they would have self destructed if stickered and air dried as slaps. I have a major slab experiment in my basement. 10/4 of various species air drying for the last year with stickers and weight. Red oak is actual behaving better than white oak, sugar maple, silver maple and cherry.  Most have some degree of center splits and the cupping on slabs near the pith of some (especially cherry) is lifting hundreds of pounds of slabs and weight stacked on top.  Slabs are a trick; I may never figure them out but I sure am learning as I try. (And living up to my name making lots of kindlin). 


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