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Author Topic: Timber Frame Cabin Build  (Read 5234 times)

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Offline TimFromNB

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Timber Frame Cabin Build
« on: April 30, 2018, 09:21:21 PM »
Hello, I am finally moving ahead with this project. Will be posting progress in this thread for anyone who might be interested.

Offline TimFromNB

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Re: Timber Frame Cabin Build
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2018, 10:01:53 PM »
Here are photos up until now. Received the logs about a month ago and waxed them up with Lee Valley Log Sealer. They are mostly EWP with some Red Pine mixed in for spares and non-critical members.

Last photo is where the cabin will be raised.



Offline TimFromNB

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Re: Timber Frame Cabin Build
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2018, 09:35:09 PM »
Finally started milling. Almost halfway done. I am getting some nice clear beams but also some pretty knotty stuff as well. I'll be using the knotty stuff for posts and clear for rafters, plates and ties. Weather went from 31C for first two days then to 6C. At least no flies at 6C ;D.



 


 

 

 

 

 

 

Offline flyingparks

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Re: Timber Frame Cabin Build
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2018, 10:30:22 PM »
Nice looking whack! I'm excited to see this project. As far as the temperature goes: you can always put more layers on, but you can only take so many off.  :D

Offline ljohnsaw

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Re: Timber Frame Cabin Build
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2018, 11:04:53 PM »
 8)
:P
Just for size idea, are those timbers in the last picture 8x8s in the middle and 6x8s up front?
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/32" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Offline TimFromNB

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Re: Timber Frame Cabin Build
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2018, 11:09:46 PM »
Hi John,

Yes, those are 8x8's in the middle. The nearest stack has rows of 5x7's and 4x6's.


Offline ljohnsaw

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Re: Timber Frame Cabin Build
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2018, 11:25:51 PM »
I went back and looked again at your pics.  You've really maxed out your cuts on those logs!  Were you getting two 8x8s out of a log?  It looks like you were splitting the pith on them :-X
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/32" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Offline TimFromNB

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Re: Timber Frame Cabin Build
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2018, 06:27:04 AM »
Flyingparks - exactly, prefer working in cool weather!

John - that last log was quartered into 4 - 9x9's. So I got 2 - 8x8's and 4 - 4x6's. I could have pulled out 5x7s instead but wood wasnt clear enough for rafters.

Offline sterling08

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Re: Timber Frame Cabin Build
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2018, 06:52:49 AM »
Hi Tim,

   I am very interested in your project! You are doing what many of us wish to be doing. Do you have a cabin design finalized yet?

Sterling.

Offline TimFromNB

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Re: Timber Frame Cabin Build
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2018, 11:02:20 AM »
Hi Sterling, thanks. I do have a finalized design (almost done). 16'x20'
 

 

Offline sterling08

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Re: Timber Frame Cabin Build
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2018, 08:55:36 AM »
Tim,

   I am currently building the same Sobon frame, but in a 16x26 format. It is not going to be insulated, but other than that it is pretty much the same building, which is why I am so interested. I am still debating a few finish details, and am wondering what you have in mind for yours.

   What are you doing for window and door framing? For a frame like this, how important is the window and door framing? Specifically, should this be mortised and tenoned into the main frame? (The same question applies for the nailers). I currently have in mind to use 4x4s that are mortised and tenoned, but it seems that this might be overkill.

   I have found all kinds of good information readily available for building the frame, but when it comes to closing it in, there seems to be many options, which can be very confusing.

Sterling.

Offline TimFromNB

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Re: Timber Frame Cabin Build
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2018, 07:44:29 PM »

Days 5 and 6 of milling. 



 






Nice clear (almost) 8x10x16 tie beam in the making 



This one was wicked. Ended up taking it off the mill. Might cut into two 8ft pieces and cut boards out of it... 

 

 

Slab pile is getting bigger. One more white pine beam, then onto the red pine for boards and 2 by's.

 

Offline TimFromNB

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Re: Timber Frame Cabin Build
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2018, 07:51:05 PM »
Sterling,

This is a modified Sobon design. I guess the only real difference is going with housed bird's mouth rafters instead of step lapped. Hoping this will save me some time.

I will be enclosing with wrap and strap - check out Brian Weekley's post on this forum for his barn build. Very similar. I will have mortise/tenon for one girt per wall, but for the rest, I will probably just make housings and screw the girts into the posts from the outside. Similar to this but with housings and larger girts: https://www.facebook.com/shelterbuild/photos/a.10152637194290696.1073741825.189436415695/10159318420890696/?type=3&theater 

Tim


Offline TimFromNB

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Re: Timber Frame Cabin Build
« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2018, 04:52:01 PM »
Milling, Day 7. Finished all the white pine. 

Last 8x10x16


 

Ended up cutting the crooked 16' and 12' logs into 8' pieces. We quartered them and made some 2 by's for loft decking.


 

 

 

Only red pine left...and it is small. Will make a few spare beams and the rest into boards. One more day of sawing, then onto cutting joints!

 

Offline samandothers

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Re: Timber Frame Cabin Build
« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2018, 07:32:15 AM »
You are making great progress!

Offline sawmilllawyer

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Re: Timber Frame Cabin Build
« Reply #15 on: June 15, 2018, 10:42:55 PM »
Really enjoy your progress and looking forward to more postings. Keep up the good work.
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Offline TimFromNB

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Re: Timber Frame Cabin Build
« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2018, 09:31:06 PM »
Thanks guys  :)

Finally done milling.

Day 8 - finishing red pine into extra beams and rest into boards.

Found a few nests in the wood pile.


 


Trees are keeping the stacks mostly in the shade for a good part of the day. Still need to get them covered though.





These smaller logs were so much easier to handle!





Final results:

 

 

 

 

 

 

More slab wood than I know what to do with! And all the green bark is attracting too many bugs and borers for my liking.



 

Hopefully I will get all my cut sheets ready before the weekend and I can start planning my cutting plan.

Not sure if I should start with the smaller members (rafters, joists, braces) or with the bigger ones (tie beams, posts and plates). I'd prefer having my learning curve on the smaller stuff, but not sure if it will have a chance to move too much before assembly. I don't think I can cut the whole frame in less than 6 months.

Any thoughts on what to tackle first? I have a few extras for almost all the members.

Thanks,
Tim 

P.S: found a photo from one of the bigger logs we milled. This is a 16' EWP.





Offline flyingparks

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Re: Timber Frame Cabin Build
« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2018, 10:46:57 PM »
Looking great, Tim! You'll be surprised how much you can cut once you get a rhythm going. The posts are probably going to be your most time consuming. If it were me, I would start with the sills to get your feet wet. Then, I would do a bent at a time. That way you don't get too ahead of yourself. Cut the posts, then the beam. I would definitely make a template for your braces and cut those all at once. Then the rafters. Just my advice. Also, take your sweet time and double check measurements. Especially on your first members. 

Offline Piston

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Re: Timber Frame Cabin Build
« Reply #18 on: June 20, 2018, 07:28:14 AM »
Wow!  It looks like your off to an excellent start Tim!  Those are some beautiful timbers you have there.  Good luck with the project and thanks for posting photos along the way.   smiley_thumbsup
-Matt
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Offline TimFromNB

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Re: Timber Frame Cabin Build
« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2018, 10:21:00 AM »
Thanks for the encouragement :) 

Got some old pallets (free!) and two cheap 15'x20' tarps that I ripped up to make these fork friendly removable stack covers. It was time for this. Only 2-3 weeks in partial sun and already getting surface checking...hope this will reduce it.




 

 

 

 

 

Offline ljohnsaw

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Re: Timber Frame Cabin Build
« Reply #20 on: June 23, 2018, 10:31:35 AM »
Nice!  But even in full shade, your beams are going to check a bit.  You just can't stop the physics involved.  Its called character! ;)
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/32" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Offline 123maxbars

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Re: Timber Frame Cabin Build
« Reply #21 on: June 23, 2018, 11:03:52 AM »
Great work here, thanks for sharing!
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Offline E-Tex

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Re: Timber Frame Cabin Build
« Reply #22 on: June 25, 2018, 11:42:32 PM »
 popcorn_smiley
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Offline TimFromNB

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Re: Timber Frame Cabin Build
« Reply #23 on: June 30, 2018, 05:10:44 PM »
Yesterday I got all the posts out on the saw horses to grade them visually and figure out which one will go where. Also marked the reference faces. Today I started layout on my first post! Taking my sweet time on the first ones until I get the hang of it.



 


Offline TimFromNB

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Re: Timber Frame Cabin Build
« Reply #24 on: July 16, 2018, 08:56:28 PM »
Update:

Finally started cutting my first post. Overall I am happy with the results so far, except I managed to gouge out too much material on the bearing surface of the tie beam mortise. I took my time on the upper face then thought I could go faster on the bearing face...go figure...Has anyone tried filling these in with epoxy or something? Biggest gouge is about 3/16".

First cheek/shoulder.


 

 

 

 

 

 

Where I gouged out the bearing surface...worst spot is 3/16th under cut:


 

First brace mortise.


 

 

I'm thinking it will take me about 1 full day per post at this rate...

Offline btulloh

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Re: Timber Frame Cabin Build
« Reply #25 on: July 17, 2018, 12:04:26 AM »
Nice work.  Enjoying your thread.  Thanks for posting.

Is that a standard dozuki or does it have the special rip teeth.  I've been thinking about getting one for green wood.  Hard to find a good rip saw these days that doesn't cost and arm and two legs.
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Offline TimFromNB

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Re: Timber Frame Cabin Build
« Reply #26 on: July 17, 2018, 06:28:35 AM »
Thanks Btulloh. I believe it is a Gyokucho.

I wish I could find a 2" auger bit. Would save me some pairing on the mortises. Already eyeing a chain mortiser at this point ;) Having a hard time justifying it though :)

I can only work on the frame about one day per week and winter will be here before we know it...

Offline Brian_Weekley

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Re: Timber Frame Cabin Build
« Reply #27 on: July 17, 2018, 07:07:39 AM »
I wish I could find a 2" auger bit. Would save me some pairing on the mortises. Already eyeing a chain mortiser at this point ;) Having a hard time justifying it though :)
It will get faster the more you do.

Consider an antique boring machine and bit--they do work well.  However, as an experiment, I made a boring machine and it worked great.  You can get a 2" bit here:  http://logbuildingtools.ca/Wood_Auger_pricelist2.pdf

Millers Falls Dimensions in Timber Framing/Log construction
e aho laula

Offline flyingparks

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Re: Timber Frame Cabin Build
« Reply #28 on: July 17, 2018, 05:45:06 PM »
Looking great. A chain mortiser really speeds things up. If you look around a bit you'll find a brand new Makita for about $1600. My chain is still sharp on mine. But my friend recently told me replacements are $700. Ouch. I really enjoy using the boring machine on smaller projects.

Offline Don P

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Re: Timber Frame Cabin Build
« Reply #29 on: July 17, 2018, 10:39:15 PM »
You can file the chain, it's a little tricky but do-able. It's rare to see a used chain mortise for sale, they disappear fast. You lightly hollowed the bearing surface, high end work :)

Offline IMERC

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Re: Timber Frame Cabin Build
« Reply #30 on: July 18, 2018, 05:16:51 PM »
Yes, very nice work and I am enjoying your thread... 
Thanks for posting.
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Offline IMERC

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Offline Brian_Weekley

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Re: Timber Frame Cabin Build
« Reply #32 on: July 20, 2018, 04:41:09 PM »
Never tried one of those Milwaukee self-feed bits, but without the flutes on an auger, I can't see how they would clear chips from deep mortises or holes very well.
e aho laula

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Re: Timber Frame Cabin Build
« Reply #33 on: July 20, 2018, 06:11:37 PM »
I have a Bosch bit that is the same design as the Milwaukee.  Does not clear chips well at all.  It does indeed self feed and can get itself in and jammed with chips before you can stop it.  You can make it work but it's always on the edge of jamming on the chips, especially in green wood.  This is 1/2".  Maybe the bigger ones clear chips better.
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Re: Timber Frame Cabin Build
« Reply #34 on: July 20, 2018, 07:02:28 PM »
not really much better. when the chips get around and over it, better pull up and remove them. they were really designed to punch through thinner stock and then self clear. in log work or heavy timber you can bury a fluted auger beyond your power to pull or drill power to reverse your way out. so any drill can be jammed like that, they each have different points. just be aware and clear as needed.

Offline Jim1611

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Re: Timber Frame Cabin Build
« Reply #35 on: July 24, 2018, 10:58:50 AM »
Nice work!!
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Offline TimFromNB

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Re: Timber Frame Cabin Build
« Reply #36 on: July 24, 2018, 09:27:28 PM »
Thanks for the feedback guys :). I am in the process of trying to build a boring machine with inspiration from Brian. That 2" bit is 18" long though, so I might stick with the 1 1/2".

Finished my first post. Started layout on the 2nd and am having a problem transferring lines from my reference face. It seems like there is a 1/4" bow in the top of the log where the half dovetail tie beam mortise will be. If I register my framing square with the blade towards the bottom of the post, I get a different transferred line location than if I register it towards the top. This is because in both cases, the square is square to that 24" of edge, but is within the bow and is at angle to the overall straight edge of the timber. What kind of tolerance do I have here? At what point do I start having to use chalk lines?

It is giving me just under 1/16" difference, which could mean that one side of the mortise shoulder is 1/16th lower than the other, i.e. out of square.

Registered to top: 


 

Registered to bottom (can't really see error in this photo - right edge):




Close up of error (distance from middle of thick line to thin line):
 





Another question, should I dish out my mortise housings for shrinkage or keep them square?

  

 

  

First post completed:

 


Thanks for your help!

Offline TimFromNB

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Re: Timber Frame Cabin Build
« Reply #37 on: July 29, 2018, 06:06:57 PM »
Finished the drill press a few days ago. Kind of a hack job, but it is a utility piece ;). Hopefully I can test it out tomorrow.




 

 

Loaded up some of the slabs as well. Starting to get wormy.



 

Offline TimFromNB

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Re: Timber Frame Cabin Build
« Reply #38 on: August 13, 2018, 01:36:11 PM »
Finished the second post. Although I wasn't thinking right and hollowed out the bottom bearing surface of the post...I'll have to fill that in with epoxy or something :D.



 

Got to try out the boring machine. Worked pretty good:


 
Those through mortises are self cleaning :)



 

"Visually graded" the 8x10 tie beams. One seems to have some shake and another has pretty severe splits I think are from the felling (starts bottom left corner of picture below). It goes out on the left face, basically creating a triangular piece, almost like if there was a LOT of wane over a 4-5 ft length. This specific tie beam would not be carrying any vertical load (except exterior sheathing) but is tying the two eve walls. I have one spare, so I either pick the one with shake or with split. Or I try to get another beam somehow.


 



 

They all have some twist in them...hoping it is not my stack that is off ;D.

I've read in Will Beemer's book to place a straight edge (framing square) on both ends and sight it down. If the straight edges are out of parallel by more than 1/8" over their length, then I need to fixed the ends or use chalk lines. But I am not sure how to measure that value visually. I might try and reach out to the author. What do you guys do to check for twist?

Speaking of twist, can you guys spot the 4 red pine timbers in this stack?  :D




Offline sbishop

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Re: Timber Frame Cabin Build
« Reply #39 on: August 14, 2018, 09:10:44 AM »
nice work, what part of NB you from?

Steve

Offline TimFromNB

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Re: Timber Frame Cabin Build
« Reply #40 on: August 14, 2018, 02:57:56 PM »
I'm about 10 mins from Shediac. Yourself?

Offline sbishop

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Re: Timber Frame Cabin Build
« Reply #41 on: August 15, 2018, 01:48:31 PM »
I'm located both ways from you, I live in Fredericton but I'm wrong the Miramichi area.

This was my project few years back! http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=22343.0

Welcome!

Offline samandothers

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Re: Timber Frame Cabin Build
« Reply #42 on: August 16, 2018, 01:14:53 PM »
s Bishop,
Enjoyed your thread.  Great job!  Hope all is holding up well at your camp.

Offline TimFromNB

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Re: Timber Frame Cabin Build
« Reply #43 on: August 17, 2018, 08:02:08 AM »
Bishop, I browsed through the thread quickly: very nice looking camp! Is that on a branch of the Miramichi? Looks like good fishing :)

Offline Geeg

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Re: Timber Frame Cabin Build
« Reply #44 on: August 19, 2018, 04:07:37 AM »
Great job Tim, will watch your progress. smiley_thumbsup

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Re: Timber Frame Cabin Build
« Reply #45 on: August 19, 2018, 05:34:19 AM »
I cut some 8X8 from red pine. They was close to the sawmill. I could see the sawmill drooling as it looked at them. :D  I put them up green and I noticed they started to twist. I only used 2-3. I went back to hemlock.
Good luck with your build.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Offline TimFromNB

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Re: Timber Frame Cabin Build
« Reply #46 on: October 07, 2018, 08:18:50 PM »
Haven't posted an update in a while. Got held up working on a slightly twisted tie beam, so got an ink line and figured out "snap line square rule".



 


Then I had the bright idea to test fit and raise the first bent. My Dad gave me a hand.




...but the rigging slipped and I lost most of my work to date...I was pretty upset :o. As you can see, one post is completely broken. The other has hairline splits around the tie beam mortise, so I will probably have to scarp it as well. I need to inspect the tie beam again, but the tenon might have held on without damage.
 

 

 

I noticed a few days later that there was some moisture beading in the affected joints. Must have been from the stress?



 


 

That will use up my spares. Plus, it looks like some of the other EWP timbers have shake. So I might have to go the log yard and get some more logs to have milled up...On the bright side, my joints fitted well and I ponied up the money for a chain mortiser to make up for lost time... :D

Offline samandothers

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Re: Timber Frame Cabin Build
« Reply #47 on: October 07, 2018, 09:30:53 PM »
Sorry about your bad luck with the rigging slipping.  Good lesson/reason not to be in the line of Fire when doing this.  

Hey getting new toy tool helps make up for it a little. 


Offline ljohnsaw

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Re: Timber Frame Cabin Build
« Reply #48 on: October 07, 2018, 10:45:19 PM »
Oh, bummer. :-\  I don't trust slings on forks.  One of my forks had a hole burned through it.  I use a shackle, then nothing can slip.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/32" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Offline Heartwood

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Re: Timber Frame Cabin Build
« Reply #49 on: October 08, 2018, 09:37:18 AM »
A good lesson here (sorry for your pain Tim, but perhaps we can learn from it):
One factor in timber frame design is the raising method.
Square rule layout from an edge, where the mortise is only 1.5" or 2" from the reference face, has limitations.
The thinner (outside) mortise wall is not designed to handle the torque that resulted from lifting only on the tie beam; the weight and levering of the posts may have twisted the dovetail joint causing the split. The tenon is unlikely to split; mortises are the weak point. Brace mortises could also fail if the bent is twisted like this.
If the bent was hand raised with the post bottoms supported by the deck this failure would likely not occur. Once the bent was vertical the joint can handle the stresses it was meant to take in service with no problem.
Mortises closer to the center of the timber would be better if the bent is to be raised as shown.
Strongbacks clamped across the joint would have also helped.
My 2 cents...

Offline sterling08

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Re: Timber Frame Cabin Build
« Reply #50 on: October 08, 2018, 01:26:00 PM »
Tim,

   I can understand that this is very upsetting, but look on the bright side... You got rid of that one mortise you really didn't care for too much anyway!

   This is an awesome build. Don't let a setback like this get you down too much.

   This reminds me of this saying I saw one time: "Experience is the best teacher.......... But tuition is high".

Sterling.

Offline TimFromNB

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Re: Timber Frame Cabin Build
« Reply #51 on: October 09, 2018, 03:45:07 PM »
Thanks for the encouragement :). Certainly a lesson learned.

The post bottoms were sitting on blocks, though you might not be able to see them well in the picture. Basically, when it fell, the post bottoms were on the blocks, and the tie beam would have been at 8' off the ground. Although when it fell it's quite possible it also slid of the blocks and created the torque that split the posts.

Moving on... :D


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