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Author Topic: Rope  (Read 1994 times)

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Offline 21incher

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Rope
« on: May 13, 2018, 07:53:53 AM »
I am looking to buy a good piece of rope about 100 feet long to be used for a little extra pull on trees that are leaning in the wrong direction and need some guidance when cutting. I also have block and tackle pulleys for a little extra pull that looks like it uses 1/2" rope. I would like it to be strong, flexible and easy to coil also. l see there are many different brands, materials, types and strength ratings available and was wondering what others are using and if there are any brands or materials that are superior. thanks.   :)
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Offline Chuck White

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Re: Rope
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2018, 08:05:31 AM »
My best suggestion would be to check the label on the coils to see what the tensile strength is on several choices!
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Offline sprucebunny

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Re: Rope
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2018, 08:43:04 AM »
I get end-of-spool lengths from a marine supplier. It's probably about 4000 pound for 1/2". Braided. Some stretches more than others but less than twisted nylon rope.
They also sell 92 foot lengths of "Amsteel Blue" type rope for less than $1/foot. At 1/2", that stuff is about 10,000 pounds. Don't know if you can find the same sort of deal.....
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Offline btulloh

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Re: Rope
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2018, 08:55:06 AM »
Bailey's is a good place to order rope.  Local marine outlets around here tend to be a lot higher priced and they don't really have the best choices for  arborist work.  Bailey's will give a good reference point even if you don't end up buying there.
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Offline bill m

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Re: Rope
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2018, 09:07:31 AM »
Vermeer is now carrying arborist supplies and would be a good local source. I know there is a dealer in Castleton N.Y. Also George Kahler Sales in Rome N.Y. has rope. They would also be a good source.
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Offline Dave Shepard

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Re: Rope
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2018, 02:02:55 PM »
Samson and New England Rope are two manufactures that make arborist ropes. Rigging ropes are usually double braid. Three strand will be cheaper, weaker, and less manageable. 
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Offline 21incher

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Re: Rope
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2018, 03:24:18 PM »
Thanks everyone.

Bailey's is a good place to order rope.  Local marine outlets around here tend to be a lot higher priced and they don't really have the best choices for  arborist work.  Bailey's will give a good reference point even if you don't end up buying there.


Thanks, I forgot about their site and see they have a good selection with all the specs. It looks like I will go with the Samson 1/2" Stable Braid Blue Bull Rope. It looks to have a 10,400 breaking strength and a 2100 pound working load which should be more then enough for what I need. It also has a coating that makes it more uv resistant and snag resistant. I quit buying from Baileys when they left the forum as a sponsor so I will have to look for another supplier. I guess that I will have to learn to splice in eyes next. :)
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Online Greyhound

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Re: Rope
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2018, 03:40:51 PM »
If you are planning to use a Maasdam type rope puller, then you should definitely use 1/2' 3-strand, e.g. Sampson pro-master, New England safety blue.  The double-braid bull ropes may slip in the puller.

Offline Andries

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Re: Rope
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2018, 05:35:00 PM »
We use the Maasdam puller as well, for the same job as described by the OP - persuading a back leaner tree to move the right way.
That puller is fabulous. It's light, powerful and doesn't run out of pulling distance - as long as there's rope, it'll keep on pulling.
Experience shows that a 1/2" rope in a three strand works best, and new rope needs to be "streached" out. Tie one end of your 100 ' rope to a tree and give it a few gentle yanks with a trailer hitch on a vehicle.
Baileys, Vermeer and a few others sell them online.
 We bought ours with the rope they recommended.
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Offline DelawhereJoe

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Re: Rope
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2018, 07:36:33 PM »
Even Amazon has 1/2" bull rope for sale with free shipping, 150' for $123. The only bad thing with rope is the rubber band snap effect when it breaks so its best to get the thickest rope to handle the pulling power of your equipment .
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Offline 21incher

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Re: Rope
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2018, 07:37:09 PM »
Wow you guys are great. I had never heard of a massdam puller and that is exactly what I was looking for. Just ordered one from Home Depot.com with a 20 ft rope for $46.00 to get started with my existing rope as an extension and now looking for another 150 ft of the 3 strand rope for longer pulls. It is amazing how the experienced members of the forestry forum know exactly what is required and are willing to share with those of us just starting out.  8)
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Offline John Mc

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Re: Rope
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2018, 09:46:44 PM »
Make sure you get rope intended for this type of application. Some rope is designed to be elastic, some is designed to minimize that elastic stretch. You want the latter (the names most have referred to here are appropriate for this use). You do NOT want the type of rope rock climbers us. While it is incredibly strong, it's designed to be elastic - that elasticity cushions the jerk at the end of a long fall when climbing. However, the elasticity is also what makes the rope spring back with surprising force if it does break.

Spend some time to learn a few knots appropriate to what you are doing. Some knots reduce the breaking strength by half or more. Some are meant to be permanent - almost impossible to untie once they have been under load. Others are easy to untie even after repeated heavy loads.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Offline WDH

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Re: Rope
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2018, 07:18:28 AM »
Saw the title and was hoping that you were not at the end of yours :)
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Offline PC-Urban-Sawyer

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Re: Rope
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2018, 08:03:01 AM »
Yep, was afraid he had reached the bitter end...


Offline 21incher

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Re: Rope
« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2018, 08:42:31 AM »
Yep, was afraid he had reached the bitter end...



Nope, not near the end yet.  The older I get, the less chance I am willing to take when dropping trees. Every man reaches a point in their life where they deserve a good piece of rope that is not knotted together from previous close calls. ;D

I also ordered a 200 ft length of of 1/2" Samson Pro Master Arborist 3 strand rigging line that is supposed to work well with the winch off ebay and now as John Mc says must learn to tie knots and splice eyes.  Thanks everyone.  :)
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Offline WDH

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Re: Rope
« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2018, 08:08:30 PM »
I must learn how to figure out how to not have to saw down trees.... :).
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Offline Don P

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Re: Rope
« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2018, 06:52:28 AM »
A good while ago Mitch gave me some math for figuring out line pull on a leaner. It requires knowing a few variables we never really know in the field but does give some sense of the forces involved, especially as lean and/or rope angle gets worse;

http://forestryforum.com/members/donp/linepullclc.htm

Offline 21incher

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Re: Rope
« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2018, 06:21:42 PM »
A good while ago Mitch gave me some math for figuring out line pull on a leaner. It requires knowing a few variables we never really know in the field but does give some sense of the forces involved, especially as lean and/or rope angle gets worse;

http://forestryforum.com/members/donp/linepullclc.htm
Thanks that is a great reference. I don't know how to estimate the weight of the tree or COG but it gives me a good idea of how the rope angle and height make a big difference in the pull force. :)

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Offline Busybeaver

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Re: Rope
« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2018, 08:07:24 PM »
If your going to be pulling a lot of trees a Sherrill big shot might be a good investment to get your line way up in the tree. We have been using one with 200' of 3/4 Samson stable braid and a pulley, tied off to a tracked bobcat t300. That Samson stable braid bull rope is some strong rope. I sunk my 10000 pound bobcat in the muck on the edge of our pond and used 2 pulleys, samson 3/4 and a 3/4 ton gmc to walk it out. When i say sunk i mean buried in the muck past the tracks with mud coming in the cab through the door opening. My buddy said we were going to need a dozer to get it out. As far as knots go a bowline and running bowline are good knots that un tie fairly easily even after yanking on them with a bobcat or truck.  Those are the only two knots I use for pulling with rope.  Easy to tie and untie and they don't slip.
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Offline John Mc

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Re: Rope
« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2018, 10:56:11 PM »
Remember that all knots weaken the rope, some of them substantially. The old Boy Scout standby, the square knot reduces a rope to 45% of its rated strength. It's not something I use for anything other than tying my shoelaces or tying up a package with string.

Some of my favorite knots:

I use a bowline a fair amount. It's a relatively strong knot: retains 65% of the rope's breaking strength. Forms a non-slip loop which is fairly easy to untie even after it has been heavily loaded. There is a bit of a trick to tie one correctly, but once you get it, it's easy to remember. A convenient, quick knot to tie and untie when you don't need maximum strength from your rope.

A figure eight knot is one of the stronger ones around (75% of rope breaking strength). It makes a great stopper knot to keep the end of the rope from running through a piece of gear. A figure 8 follow-through is a strong way of joining 2 ropes together. A figure 8 on a bight is a stronger way (78%) of tying a non-slip loop than the bowline. Figure 8 knots generally can be untied even after heavy loading, but it may take more work than some other knots (like the bowline). Very easy to learn, easy to inspect for proper tying technique. I typically use this for stopper knots or to make a non-slip loop that I will be using for a while (takes longer to tie and untie than a bowline, but is stronger).

The Butterfly knot also makes a non-slip loop on a rope. very strong (80% of rope breaking strength). Added benefits: that you don't need access to the ends of the rope to tie it; once set, it forms a stable loop which can handle multi-directional loading (pull on either of the ends or the loop or all three); good for isolating a bad section of rope (no load is put on the loop unless you pull on the loop itself); fairly easy to untie even after being under load. Downsides: can't really be tied around a solid ring or similar; tying incorrectly can result in a similar looking, but highly inferior knot. I generally only use this when I need a loop that is not right on the end of the rope, since you don't need access to the ends to tie it. I should probably use it more, since it's one of the strongest non-slip loops around (second only to the eye splice, as far as I know) and it's easier to untie after being under load than a closed loop made by tying a figure 8 on a bight.

Timber hitch - used for tying a rope to a log. I don't have reliable information on strength, but indications are the strength is similar to a Bowline. Very easy to untie, regardless of how heavily it has been loaded. May slip a bit under load - more twists in the know help minimize this. If I didn't own a logging winch and choker cables, I suspect I would be tying this one often.
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