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Author Topic: Understanding and using reference faces of timbers in timber framing videos  (Read 953 times)

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Online Jim_Rogers

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I just posted two videos about Understanding and using reference faces used in timber framing:



part one.
Also see the end of part two for special offer.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Online Jim_Rogers

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Part two



Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Offline pizza

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Hi Jim. Thanks for those videos.

I have been searching high and low for a video where someone completely shows how exactly to layout actual joinery on an actual timber. Just a practical nuts and bolts instructional video on an actual timber especially showing them dealing with real world bowed and twisted timbers. I get the square rule concept. I understand working to the "perfect timber within". I understand the concept of reference faces. That's all good in a perfect world with perfect from the sawmill timbers (and perfect square CAD timbers in software). I understand the concept of snapping lines and working off of those. 

A lot of the books show the timber framer putting his framing square against the ref face marking out his joinery and it all looks "hunkey dory" and oh so easy. However, as an example of real world, I've come across many times (not in timber framing) when I'm laying my framing square on an edge and right there where I lay the square there is a big irregularity/defect in the lumber, a knot or a bow, or a hump and I'm not able to get a good ref edge to lay the square to . Or the entire timber is not straight anywhere. I'd like to see video of someone showing how to deal with such situations.

That guy on Youtube at "Fouch Family off grid", that I mentioned, is the ONLY guy who I've found that comes close to explaining these situations and what he does (he snaps lines). However I have more questions about how to use that method. Like what if the timber is slightly bowed in not only one plane but in two planes, like it might bow AND dip. How does one deal with that , I need to wrap my head around that because I'm sure that condition happens all the time. If you're using the snap center line method then how would you be sure the four lines (one on each face) is square and perpendicular and parallel to each other on such a bowed and dippy beam?

The Fouch guy in the video showed how he "averaged" the housing at each end of his beam chord (the beam across the bottom of the trusses) by laying the beam on two sawhorses and using a level, then shimming the beam so that the level's bubble at each end went in opposite directions equally, thereby averaging the housing's "table" so to speak. These housing tables were on the top of the beam chord that the rafters will eventually rest (at the eaves).

Timber framing students need more in depth real world videos.

Would you know of a good resource or repository for such instruction? Be it video based or not? 

Thanks

Online Jim_Rogers

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I have some videos of laying out a tenon and a mortise for doing a tie beam to post connection.
And I hope to do one showing how to layout and cut a brace including the brace "mortises/pockets" on the post and the tie beam thus making a simple corner joint:




The reason to learn this joint is that it is in every frame over and over again, in different locations and different sizes. Like this:


 

To give specific instructions of how to compensate layout and cutting joints in less then perfect timbers is difficult to do in a forum post.
So much of it is based on the actual timber, and it's defects.
When a timber has a lot of defects you have to start someplace and try and layout and cut the joint as best you can.
Then when you do "fit up" that is test your connection of the two timbers you adjust your mortise and or tenon or both to compensate for the irregular shape of your timber.
Or you scribe layout your timbers from the beginning.
Scribe layout allows you to use any timber with many defects.
Learning scribe layout is a challenge that is best done by watching someone else do it as in a workshop/class setting.
And then doing it yourself. You have to use it, regularly or you'll loose the method, in memory.

When you have a bow or crown in a timber you have to understand which way the bow or crown should go to make it easiest to deal with that timber.
When a timber has bow or crown in two directions at the same time, it is not impossible to use. But it will take some time to correctly lay it out and cut the joints so that they will fit together.
I'm sorry I can't just tell you "go to this video" and watch it and you'll learn all about it as I don't know of one.

Jim Rogers

PS. one way to make your timber better is to take a hand plane and shape it so that your framing square doesn't "rock" over a hump or other defect. You may have to do this on several sides and in the exact area of the joint so you can layout your lines correctly.
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Offline pizza

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Thanks Jim!! Much appreciated!!

Offline timberframe

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Hi Jim. Thanks for those videos.

I have been searching high and low for a video where someone completely shows how exactly to layout actual joinery on an actual timber. Just a practical nuts and bolts instructional video on an actual timber especially showing them dealing with real world bowed and twisted timbers. I get the square rule concept. I understand working to the "perfect timber within". I understand the concept of reference faces. That's all good in a perfect world with perfect from the sawmill timbers (and perfect square CAD timbers in software). I understand the concept of snapping lines and working off of those.

A lot of the books show the timber framer putting his framing square against the ref face marking out his joinery and it all looks "hunkey dory" and oh so easy. However, as an example of real world, I've come across many times (not in timber framing) when I'm laying my framing square on an edge and right there where I lay the square there is a big irregularity/defect in the lumber, a knot or a bow, or a hump and I'm not able to get a good ref edge to lay the square to . Or the entire timber is not straight anywhere. I'd like to see video of someone showing how to deal with such situations.

That guy on Youtube at "Fouch Family off grid", that I mentioned, is the ONLY guy who I've found that comes close to explaining these situations and what he does (he snaps lines). However I have more questions about how to use that method. Like what if the timber is slightly bowed in not only one plane but in two planes, like it might bow AND dip. How does one deal with that , I need to wrap my head around that because I'm sure that condition happens all the time. If you're using the snap center line method then how would you be sure the four lines (one on each face) is square and perpendicular and parallel to each other on such a bowed and dippy beam?

The Fouch guy in the video showed how he "averaged" the housing at each end of his beam chord (the beam across the bottom of the trusses) by laying the beam on two sawhorses and using a level, then shimming the beam so that the level's bubble at each end went in opposite directions equally, thereby averaging the housing's "table" so to speak. These housing tables were on the top of the beam chord that the rafters will eventually rest (at the eaves).

Timber framing students need more in depth real world videos.

Would you know of a good resource or repository for such instruction? Be it video based or not?

Thanks
Hi Pizza, I ran into the same problem and basically came up with my own system  that has worked for me.  I watched the fouch family thing just the other day, and mine is quite similar, though I do things  in a different order. I never lay the square against the edge of the timber.   I'm doing a video on exactly this in the next couple of weeks.


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