The Forestry Forum is sponsored in part by:

Draw for handbuilt acoustic guitar get your name in


Forestry Forum
Sponsored by:


TimberKing Sawmills



Toll Free 1-800-582-0470

LogRite Tools



Norwood Industries Inc.


Sawmill & Woodlot Magazine



Your source for Portable Sawmills, Edgers, Resaws, Sharpeners, Setters, Bandsaw Blades and Sawmill Parts

EZ Boardwalk Sawmills. More Saw For Less Money!

STIHLDealers.com sponsored by Northeast STIHL


Woodland Sawmills

Peterson Swingmills

 KASCO SharpTech WoodMaxx Blades

Turbosawmill

Sawmill Exchange

BRUTE FORCE Authorized Dealer

Woodshax Outdoor Vending Solutions

FARMA


Council Tool

Baker Products

ECHO-Bearcat



Author Topic: need some info  (Read 1049 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline coxy

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 6200
  • Age: 47
  • Location: eastern n.y
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
need some info
« on: July 02, 2018, 04:21:46 PM »
if I have a contract for timber harvest on a piece of property and some one cuts over the property line  do I have a right to sue also for timber theft along with the land owner 

Offline Southside logger

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2503
  • Age: 46
  • Location: Wilsons (Dinwiddie County), VA
  • Gender: Male
  • Have a plan to saw every log you meet.
    • Share Post
Re: need some info
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2018, 04:26:32 PM »
Did you pre-buy the timber paid in full?  If so I would think you have a claim.  
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.

Offline coxy

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 6200
  • Age: 47
  • Location: eastern n.y
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: need some info
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2018, 05:04:36 PM »
no but I said what I was going to give the LO in the contract 

Offline luvmexfood

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1275
  • Location: Southwest Virginia
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: need some info
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2018, 05:52:55 PM »
That is a tricky question. Did you own the timber or the landowner? At a minimum I think it would give you standing to renegotiate the contract with the landowner to subtract the value of the gone timber. Let him have the hassle of recouping the loss. Then again I am not an attorney and the last motel I stayed in was a Red Roof Inn.
Give me a new saw chain and I can find you a rock in a heartbeat.

Offline Black_Bear

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 300
  • Age: 47
  • Location: VT, NH
  • Gender: Male
  • UMaine Black Bears
    • Share Post
Re: need some info
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2018, 08:49:16 PM »
Depending on the way the contract is worded you may not own the wood yet. If you look at it like the IRS would look at it, the tree remains the property of the landowner until it is severed at the stump, then it becomes your property. Therefore, to recoup your losses you may have to sue the landowner for breach of contract, which probably isn't a logical way to go. If a client asked me this question I would defer to a lawyer.

Online mike_belben

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2758
  • Location: Middle TN
  • Pulp Friction
    • Share Post
Re: need some info
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2018, 10:54:53 PM »
Wouldnt the IRS consider the transfer of ownership to occur upon payment?  I thought deduction of expenses was based on payment date, rsther than delivery date.  I could be wrong, just asking.
Revelation 3:20

Offline Southside logger

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2503
  • Age: 46
  • Location: Wilsons (Dinwiddie County), VA
  • Gender: Male
  • Have a plan to saw every log you meet.
    • Share Post
Re: need some info
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2018, 11:25:22 PM »
I think you have what is called standing which gives you a path to sue, but you will have to show losses or damages from what you would have sold the logs for, ie profit, but honestly you are probably trying to get blood out of a stone. I would renegotiate the contract and let the land owner go after the crook. 
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.

Offline Black_Bear

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 300
  • Age: 47
  • Location: VT, NH
  • Gender: Male
  • UMaine Black Bears
    • Share Post
Re: need some info
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2018, 11:46:00 PM »
Wouldnt the IRS consider the transfer of ownership to occur upon payment?  I thought deduction of expenses was based on payment date, rsther than delivery date.  I could be wrong, just asking.
I'm not sure? The IRS does recognize that timber becomes a taxable good or product once severed from the stump, but not sure how they would determine when the transaction actually took place. I have seen many contracts that read that the landowner owns the product (log, pulp, etc.) until he/she is paid for it, which around here is often a week or two after it goes to the mill. My analogy may not have been a good one, as the contract language may affect this situation more than IRS tax code.

Online mike_belben

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2758
  • Location: Middle TN
  • Pulp Friction
    • Share Post
Re: need some info
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2018, 12:24:35 AM »
Yeah i dont have a clue.  To summarize my lifetime experience with the law, the more time and money you have available, the more the system bends in your favor and vice versa.
Revelation 3:20

Offline BargeMonkey

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2547
  • Age: 34
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: need some info
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2018, 12:33:52 AM »
How much mbdft are we talking ? I'm under the impression that timber theft is convicted 110% of the time and you CAN get blood from a stone. 🤣 I would revise the contract and assist the landowner in getting their money, see how the cards fall. 


Share via delicious Share via digg Share via facebook Share via linkedin Share via pinterest Share via reddit Share via stumble Share via tumblr Share via twitter

xx
need some info

Started by coxy on Forestry and Logging

1 Replies
590 Views
Last post June 20, 2015, 01:11:04 PM
by grassfed
xx
Very little info.

Started by Woodhauler on Forestry and Logging

44 Replies
6361 Views
Last post November 14, 2012, 07:46:55 AM
by gjersy
xx
need a little info

Started by oscar4749 on Ask The Forester

7 Replies
703 Views
Last post January 21, 2013, 07:07:57 PM
by Ianab
xx
need some info please

Started by coxy on Forestry and Logging

1 Replies
319 Views
Last post February 06, 2017, 07:43:15 PM
by Gearbox
 


Powered by EzPortal