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Author Topic: Log Loading Arch out of timbers.  (Read 2562 times)

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Offline firefighter ontheside

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Log Loading Arch out of timbers.
« on: July 18, 2018, 09:00:54 AM »
Has anyone builtor seen one built out of timbers instead of steel.  I feel like I could mill some yellow pine 4x4ís and put together a V shaped loader.  I would make it fairly tall(8feet) to avoid having to lower it down so far.  I would possibly even hang a chain hoist from it so I could raise or lower the log independent of the winch thatís pulling on the loader.  Iím a woodworker/carpenter and not a metal worker, so Iím just thinking of something I can build and not have someone else weld it for me, plus I can cut timbers, but Iíd have to buy steel.  Thanks for any input.
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Re: Log Loading Arch out of timbers.
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2018, 01:24:27 PM »
Iíve got most of a plan worked out.  I bought bolts and just milled some yellow pine 5x5ís so Iím gonna go out it together.  Hopefully pics later.
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Re: Log Loading Arch out of timbers.
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2018, 05:51:08 PM »
I have more work to do, but I have the arch together and had it on the trailer.  Iím just gonna use load straps to hang the chain hoist.



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Re: Log Loading Arch out of timbers.
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2018, 08:57:37 PM »
Why not. Back in the old days of cutting with cross cut and horses they used big wood cranes and yarder towers.

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Re: Log Loading Arch out of timbers.
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2018, 09:38:29 PM »
Nothing wrong with that 8)

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Re: Log Loading Arch out of timbers.
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2018, 12:10:11 PM »
This was proof of concept, but my little 1 ton winch didnít have the guts to do the job.  So, tomorrow I will go get a bigger winch, instead of going to get logs on the trailer.


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Re: Log Loading Arch out of timbers.
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2018, 04:24:12 PM »
If you put a snatch block on the arch you would have doubled your winch power.  Might even need to do that with your new winch depending on what you spend.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

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Re: Log Loading Arch out of timbers.
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2018, 04:30:20 PM »
I talked about a pulley, but if I do that I lose half of the length of my cable which is only about 30 feet on my little winch.  The cable wouldnít be long enough.  Iím planning to pick up a harbor freight 9000 winch tomorrow.
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Re: Log Loading Arch out of timbers.
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2018, 04:42:36 PM »
IF the measurements work out, you extend your cable all the way and have a little (5-10'?) past the snatch block.  Then use more cable or chain to come back towards the winch.  You need the most lifting power at the beginning and the snatch block will give you double.  If the winch hook starts to catch when the arch is at the top, that's ok since you don't need much power at that point.  Make sense?  Also, the less wire rope on the winch spool, the better.  The winch rating will give you a table that says the winch is good for the rated amount for the first wrap layer.  Then it drops off considerably for each additional layer of wire rope.  My cheapo HF 1,500# winch dropped down to less than 800# when it has 3 layers.
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SkyTrak 9038, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 38" cut Bandmill up to 54' - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

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Re: Log Loading Arch out of timbers.
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2018, 05:59:17 PM »
Thanks John.  Iím pretty well familiar with mechanical advantage systems.  We have to know how to build all kinds with rope and pulleys and other hardware on the FEMAtask Force Iím on.  

Iím gonna go ahead and get the 9000 so I donít have to deal with more setup.  Iím trying to save time when Iím picking up logs on site.  Iíd really like to be able to load a 20í log in one fell swoop instead of cutting it in sections.  At home I can use my tractor to move stuff around.
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Re: Log Loading Arch out of timbers.
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2018, 06:16:21 PM »
OK, good.  Meant no disrespect to your knowledge.  I didn't know your background.  A 20' oak is going to be mighty heavy!!!
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 38" cut Bandmill up to 54' - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

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Re: Log Loading Arch out of timbers.
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2018, 06:35:02 PM »
None taken John.  Thanks for your suggestions.
PS....Iíve been following your build.  Hope youíre safe from fires.
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Re: Log Loading Arch out of timbers.
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2018, 09:52:45 PM »
I decided to get the 5000 lb winch and not the 9000.  Iím glad I did, because I saved myself about $100 and it worked perfectly today.  I loaded a silver maple log that was about 13í long and 24Ē diameter.  Didnít even slow the winch down.  Hereís a video of loading a smaller elm log.
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Re: Log Loading Arch out of timbers.
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2018, 07:45:48 AM »
are you just grabbing the log on the frame then using the winch to pull the frame?

Doesn't the frame slam to the bed like that?
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Re: Log Loading Arch out of timbers.
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2018, 08:35:34 AM »
Looks like its gettin the job done
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Re: Log Loading Arch out of timbers.
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2018, 10:38:20 AM »
That went nice and quick.  What winch did you end up getting?  From HF?
John Sawicky

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Re: Log Loading Arch out of timbers.
« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2018, 11:20:30 AM »
Crusarius, yes thatís what Iím doing.  On small logs that can happen.  I only pick up one end of any log so that the other end drags, but the small logs donít have enough friction to slow it down.  On those, I stop the A frame at vertical and then just drag the log the rest of the way with the winch.  
On large logs there is enough friction that the winch has to pull the frame down.  Definitely donít want the frame slamming down.  Might even make some kind of support that stops the frame at about 45 deg.

John, I got the 5000 lbs winch.  It was on sale for 179 I believe and with a coupon I paid about 145.
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Re: Log Loading Arch out of timbers.
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2018, 11:26:58 AM »
ok here is an idea that may be hard to explain. Put a set of legs off the back side of the frame. but instead of making them rigid to the frame connect them using something that acts like a hinge. then get a pair of gas charged shocks to connect to the frame and the end of the leg. Cheapest Monroe ones you can get. then as it cams over the leg will make contact with the trailer then start to compress the shock and slow the fall. The leg setup should look like a triangle when your done.

wammo. Fix to camming over and slamming the deck. Just make sure if you want to lay it down flat again you have some type of quick release. Or you need to figure the geometry out to make it lay flat.

and when you figure it out I want pics and measurements :) save me the time of engineering it. :)

After thought, you may need more than 1 shock but I would start with 1 per side.
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Re: Log Loading Arch out of timbers.
« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2018, 04:32:39 PM »
Might even make some kind of support that stops the frame at about 45 deg. John, I got the 5000 lbs winch. It was on sale for 179 I believe and with a coupon I paid about 145.

Great price.  My old Propane log arch had an ancient winch on it.  Slow and kind of strong.  Might have to upgrade to this one.  Let us know how well it keeps performing, or not.  Does it have a free spool so its easy to let out?  Mine doesn't. :-\

I forget who, but they used a chain on both sides.  Leave enough slack to stop the arch at about 45 degrees both over the trailer and over the tail.  Maybe a little higher over the trailer.  He had the winch cable running free through a snatch block on the arch.  He would let out his line to retrieve the log (if he couldn't back up to it all the way) and chain/choke the log.  Then, retrieve and when the hook hit the snatch block, the arch would raise - never had to stop and re-hook between the retrieve and the lift.
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Re: Log Loading Arch out of timbers.
« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2018, 04:57:34 PM »
Interesting idea Crusarius.  Iíll see if thatís a possibility.  Iím afraid the legs will land right on my fenders.  Iím not sure if that will be a good thing.  They are fairly strong, but I donít want to smash them.  

Johns idea with the chains could work too.  Could attach a spring and also cushion the landing if it falls.

The HF winch seems weíll made and does have free spool option that is nice for resetting everything.  After a while I could feel that cable was warm as I pulled it out telling me the winch was heating up.
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Re: Log Loading Arch out of timbers.
« Reply #20 on: August 02, 2018, 07:29:16 PM »
One thing about the harbor  freight winches that I checked out and I have the 3500 unit is they only have a 15% duty cycle at full load which translates to only 9 minutes of hard use per hour. Mine seems to work great but I do keep a check on the motor temperature. 

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Re: Log Loading Arch out of timbers.
« Reply #21 on: August 02, 2018, 07:45:16 PM »
Thanks Jack.  I read that too.  I think thatíll be fine for me as I will usually only be picking up one or two logs at a time.
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Re: Log Loading Arch out of timbers.
« Reply #22 on: August 02, 2018, 09:49:37 PM »
Keep the freewheel/disengage lever lubed.  Underneath it is a spring and detent ball.  If it rusts, no detent.  So when the winch jumps out of engage under load a chunk breaks off into the planetary.

Tractor trailer repair shops throw out 11" airbags that still work pretty often.  Not much that they wont cushion.
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Re: Log Loading Arch out of timbers.
« Reply #23 on: August 02, 2018, 10:33:25 PM »
Looks like the DanG Deadheader loglifter - except yours is made out of wood. Search on that term here and you'll find some pictures of them in use. One of them used check chains tied to the rear of the trailer to keep the arch from flopping all the way over. Quick, simple, cheap.
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Re: Log Loading Arch out of timbers.
« Reply #24 on: August 03, 2018, 07:30:01 AM »
yea. you definitely do not want to use the fenders. It may be ok the first couple, but eventually they will start to deform.

If I didn't have so many other projects going on I would be rigging something up just like I explained. I have had plenty of times I have used a hi lift and my 5x8 trailer picking up logs that were offered to me.

I still have 24' long trunk that is about 22" diameter of black walnut I need to go rescue from my buddies driveway. Thats going to be fun to load on the trailer. especially by hand.
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Re: Log Loading Arch out of timbers.
« Reply #25 on: August 03, 2018, 08:21:43 AM »
Iíll check out the DanG.

Crusarius, I wouldnít load that 24í log in that 5x8 trailer.



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Re: Log Loading Arch out of timbers.
« Reply #26 on: August 03, 2018, 08:24:57 AM »
yea, definitely not. planning on 3 pieces.
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Re: Log Loading Arch out of timbers.
« Reply #27 on: August 03, 2018, 08:51:54 AM »
Cru,

 I have a 5X8 trailer and have loaded 8-10 ft logs like you describe by hooking a cable around one end of the log, hook a snatch block to the front of the trailer in a secure spot, run the cable through the block and secure the other end to a tree or stump (a heavy piece of equipment would work if that is all that is handy) behind the logs, leave the tailgate down and slowly drive forward and the logs will slide right in to the trailer. Be sure to stop as soon it reaches the end of the trailer or you will bend something (Don't ask me how I know that). If you have a helper he can help roll the log from side to side to make sure it doesn't hang on the lip of the trailer and make sure you don't try to pull too far.

   Cutting off and using a straight limb or two for rollers will help too.
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Re: Log Loading Arch out of timbers.
« Reply #28 on: August 03, 2018, 09:11:02 AM »
That is exactly how I did it on the last log I loaded. it was actually easier because it was the 2nd layer on the trailer. Wood slides better on wood than on the angle iron edge
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Re: Log Loading Arch out of timbers.
« Reply #29 on: August 10, 2018, 02:50:56 PM »
are you just grabbing the log on the frame then using the winch to pull the frame?

Doesn't the frame slam to the bed like that?
You would think so but the weight of the log you're pulling keeps the arch from slamming into the trailers floor.

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Re: Log Loading Arch out of timbers.
« Reply #30 on: August 10, 2018, 03:08:49 PM »
Right.  I never want to lift the whole log, just one end.  Though even the smaller diameter logs will fall down from the weight of the A frame.  On the small logs I will lower the log to the bed with the chain hoist and slide the log directly with the winch.
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Re: Log Loading Arch out of timbers.
« Reply #31 on: August 12, 2018, 11:23:46 AM »
That right there is an awesome build and great proof of concept! Thanks for sharing. I feel my days of handyman jacking and wrestling by hand may be soon coming to a close. The other day I loaded 1110 bd ft in 2 redwood logs a 16í and a 20í. That was a lot of work for one guy. An arch like yours would have made it a cakewalk!
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Re: Log Loading Arch out of timbers.
« Reply #32 on: August 12, 2018, 11:55:57 AM »
How did you attach the legs to the tralier?
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Re: Log Loading Arch out of timbers.
« Reply #33 on: August 12, 2018, 11:11:16 PM »
Thanks Murdock.  I plan to load a couple 20 foot logs soon, one of them being 24Ē diameter.  Iíll let you know how that goes.

The A frame is attached to the trailer with 4x4s that I notched to fit into stake pockets.  A 7/8Ē bolt is the hinge pin.  I will eventually be fabricating a steel piece to take the place of the wood in the stake pocket.  I feel that piece is my weak link.  For now it is working fine.
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Re: Log Loading Arch out of timbers.
« Reply #34 on: August 15, 2018, 12:31:11 AM »
Thanks Murdock.  I plan to load a couple 20 foot logs soon, one of them being 24Ē diameter.  Iíll let you know how that goes.

The A frame is attached to the trailer with 4x4s that I notched to fit into stake pockets.  A 7/8Ē bolt is the hinge pin.  I will eventually be fabricating a steel piece to take the place of the wood in the stake pocket.  I feel that piece is my weak link.  For now it is working fine.


When you get some time will you post close pictures of how you attached it to the trailer please ?

Thanks
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Re: Log Loading Arch out of timbers.
« Reply #35 on: August 15, 2018, 07:59:30 AM »
I made these out of some pieces of 6x6 that I had so that they would fit tight in the stake pocket.  I am going to replace with some sort of steel piece in the future.  The steel piece will be very similar, but I wonít leave all the extra thickness above the pocket.  My bolts are kind of short as it is.  There is a 7/8 bolt as the hinge pin going thru the leg.  


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Re: Log Loading Arch out of timbers.
« Reply #36 on: August 15, 2018, 09:10:30 AM »
Here's a photo sequence of DanG's log lifter in use. You can also see the check chains he uses to keep the arch from flopping too far down out of the trailer. There are some helpful other comments elsewhere in this same thread. Somewhere here on FF I saw a photo of someone who had put the hinge of the arch a foot or so forward of the back of the trailer, and used check chains attached to the rear of the trailer to keep the arch from flopping all the way down into the trailer (unfortunately, I can't find that now).

Here is another thread with info on a log lifter made by @getoverit using design ideas from @DanG and @Fla._Deadheader .  If you scroll down a bit, you can see details of his hinge design, which drops into stake pockets on the rear edge of his trailer.
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Re: Log Loading Arch out of timbers.
« Reply #37 on: August 15, 2018, 01:03:09 PM »
Thanks John.  Iíve already planned to use chains hooked to the farthest back stake pockets.  I put my loader on the second set from the back.  I will check out the video.
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Offline John Mc

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Re: Log Loading Arch out of timbers.
« Reply #38 on: August 15, 2018, 01:09:09 PM »
Thanks John.  Iíve already planned to use chains hooked to the farthest back stake pockets.  I put my loader on the second set from the back.  I will check out the video.
I never did find the video, just some photos. Let me know if you come across it. If you don't find one, please consider posting one of yours in action. I've tried to describe this to some folks I cut firewood with, and my description leaves a bit to be desired.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

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Re: Log Loading Arch out of timbers.
« Reply #39 on: August 15, 2018, 08:40:40 PM »
I made these out of some pieces of 6x6 that I had so that they would fit tight in the stake pocket.  I am going to replace with some sort of steel piece in the future.  The steel piece will be very similar, but I wonít leave all the extra thickness above the pocket.  My bolts are kind of short as it is.  There is a 7/8 bolt as the hinge pin going thru the leg.  

(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)



Thanks a lot!

I'll probably end up sending you a message for more information

I'm having some red elm milled soon.

I'm leaning towards having (2) 5x5's milled out of one of the logs to build this arch.

A local welding shop wants over 300.00 to weld an arch.

This route would be MUCH cheaper.
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Offline firefighter ontheside

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Re: Log Loading Arch out of timbers.
« Reply #40 on: August 15, 2018, 09:01:05 PM »
I made a short video, but unfortunately it has my license plate number in it and I donít think I should post that.  Next time I do it Iíll make a better video.

Iíd be happy to help you in any way I can, Burtle.  I was the same as you.  I didnít want to pay a bunch of money for steel.  I have a firefighter that works for me who is a very good welder and so I wouldnít have had to,pay for that, but still.  The timbers were free.  I paid 150 for the winch and a few bucks for some bolts.
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Re: Log Loading Arch out of timbers.
« Reply #41 on: August 15, 2018, 09:26:39 PM »
I made a short video, but unfortunately it has my license plate number in it and I donít think I should post that. Next time I do it Iíll make a better video.
 

I've always wondered what the big deal is about showing a license pate in a photo or video. What is someone going to do with that info anyway? It's not like it's your SS# or something. If it were a significant risk, it would also be a risk just driving around where someone could see it in real life. Am I missing something?
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

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Re: Log Loading Arch out of timbers.
« Reply #42 on: August 15, 2018, 09:41:54 PM »
Itís not a big deal.  As you say we drive around with it.  As I now remember, I did post the video in this thread many posts back.  Most of us also donít use our whole name on this site.  Why not?  Presumably we feel there is some risk of security to do so.
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Re: Log Loading Arch out of timbers.
« Reply #43 on: August 15, 2018, 09:47:59 PM »
Didn't mean to come across as jumping on you about it. It's something I've often wondered about. It's one thing if the video was showing something that might expose the owner to attacks or ridicule, but most of the time, that's not the case.

Some of our area elementary schools have discouraged putting kids names on their sports uniforms. While I think that's not likely to have any measurable effect in deterring child predators, I can at least understand the thought process behind it. The license plate thing, not so much.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

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Re: Log Loading Arch out of timbers.
« Reply #44 on: Yesterday at 12:42:41 AM »
I knew you didnít.  Itís all good.
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