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Author Topic: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)  (Read 4662 times)

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Offline milhead

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Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« on: July 24, 2018, 07:56:47 PM »
Hi Folks,

I've got a gob of Maple and am too cheap to lay out for a commercial mill (so far)..  
On the plus side I love to build stuff and have no real schedule.

I've built a couple CNC Routers and want to scale up to a Sawmill.  

Starting at completely the wrong end I bought a 172" blade from Timberwolf, have an old 10HP Chinese clone of a WW2 era Yanmar L100 Diesel Engine..  4' of 1 1/4 shaft, and a gob of oddball stuff around the shop...  oh, and time..  Lots of time.

And lots of problems...

1) Can I use wood band wheels if I laminate them up out of Baltic birch?..  My first try will be 1" web, I may go to 1.5"
2) Can I get the engine running... (No Fuel at injector but I have a new pump coming today)
3) Engine is off a generator (Tapered Shaft.. Adapter or new crank.. Hmmm)

I like the designs that support both sides of the wheels and am starting there.

The CAD drawing is mostly so I can figure some dimensions..  My current build goal is just to get the head assembled and working.

We'll see how it goes...



 



 

 

 

 

Not sure I can post video links..  We'll see

Deleted by Admin.  All photos must be in Forestry Forum Gallery.

Deleted by Admin.  All photos must be in Forestry Forum Gallery.

My last logged build in CNC-Router Space: Deleted by Admin.  Link not allowed.

Anyway, I'm reading and learning
Time spent on hobbies is not deducted from your life span
                                    -- I'm sure someone said it.

Offline sealark37

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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2018, 08:42:40 PM »
Whether you are building from scratch, or rebuilding a sawmill,  there is always a series of problems that have to be worked out, replaced, or rebuilt.  Just keep at it until it works right.  Make sure that your diesel has fuel to the injection pump, and you have compression with no intake air restriction.  Bleed the injectors.         Good Luck, and keep us advised of the progress.      Regards, Clark

Offline Bruno of NH

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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2018, 08:58:49 PM »
The band wheels will be to lite 
You need the weight for the flywheel effect 
thomas 8013 mill ,Mahindra 3540 cab tractor loader  Dump trailer  and lot of contracting tools

Offline bandmiller2

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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2018, 09:05:15 PM »
Welcome Millhead, theirs so much to consider when building a band mill, and theirs reams of reading on this forum. I built my own mill about 15 years ago and its still putting out. Your basic design is good. There are places to cut corners but the band wheels are not one of them, they are one of the most important parts. I would look into Cooks they sell wheels and mill parts, guides est. You might as well engineer a hydraulically assisted mill from the start especially feed and log turning. I'm sure others will be along shortly. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2018, 09:08:47 PM »
It's none of my business but I wouldn't trust wooden band wheels .I'm not a fan of those old diesels either .That said good luck,be safe .

Offline Percy

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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2018, 09:43:23 PM »
This mill has only a 4 hp electric and is seems to cut quite nicely...Wooden band wheels and all. Pretty cool and cheap too. I might add a blade guard to this one...heh



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Offline milhead

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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2018, 09:57:58 PM »
Welcome Millhead, theirs so much to consider when building a band mill, and theirs reams of reading on this forum. I built my own mill about 15 years ago and its still putting out. Your basic design is good. There are places to cut corners but the band wheels are not one of them, they are one of the most important parts. I would look into Cooks they sell wheels and mill parts, guides est. You might as well engineer a hydraulically assisted mill from the start especially feed and log turning. I'm sure others will be along shortly. Frank C.
I'd love to start this way but my Cooks shopping cart says $717!  Youza! I'll get the head built and design protect for 19" wheels in case it turns out as my limiting factor, I'll have to make some kick-a@$@ guards in case the birch wheels disintegrate under load.  Hopefully if I have a 'safe' spectacular failure I'll catch it on camera...  
Thanks for the heads up, I've linked the wheels and now need to increase my budget.
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Offline milhead

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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2018, 10:05:56 PM »
It's none of my business but I wouldn't trust wooden band wheels .I'm not a fan of those old diesels either .That said good luck,be safe .
It's totally your business or I would not have posted, and all feedback is welcomed!...   I've built a lot of machinery out of the voidless Baltic birch, maybe I'll spin one up too watch it come apart...   The comments about the missing mass I had not thought about.
I wish I could afford a 10-15 HP engine, the Harbor Freight comes close but makes me as nervous as the old diesel (lordy I hate the smell of diesel), but the 10HP electric I'd prefer, I don't have and my shop only has a 100A single phase feed.  (I'm still trolling Craigslist)..
Time spent on hobbies is not deducted from your life span
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Offline Southside logger

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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2018, 10:38:58 PM »
A lot of old machinery ran on wooden wheels, axles, etc, BUT they turned a lot slower back then. I would be concerned with how your bearings will seat and stay put first. I suspect they will fail and it will be spectacular. Guarding is one thing, a band  running at a mile a minute that has come un hinged in a way that is not normally experienced could be a recipe for disaster. 

I wish you well and salute you for your bravery! 
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Offline btulloh

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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2018, 11:01:10 PM »
Fwiw - the hf 13 hp engine is pretty good.
HM126

Offline milhead

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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2018, 02:05:22 AM »
A lot of old machinery ran on wooden wheels, axles, etc, BUT they turned a lot slower back then. I would be concerned with how your bearings will seat and stay put first. I suspect they will fail and it will be spectacular. Guarding is one thing, a band  running at a mile a minute that has come un hinged in a way that is not normally experienced could be a recipe for disaster.

I wish you well and salute you for your bravery!
I learned on all my CNC stuff not to try to seat bearings in wood..  I'm going to either turn a keyed flange to bolt to the side of the wheels or find some other way to secure them..  For both my drive and idle wheels i'm turning 1-1/4 shaft in a pair of pillow blocks..  Not sure how I'll do it yet.. stay tuned
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Offline bandmiller2

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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2018, 07:22:17 AM »
Surplus center sells Vee sheves reasonable. When a fella is building his own he can try whatever he likes. Try the wooden wheels, but I would make them the same dimensions as metal so they could be switched in the future. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Offline YellowHammer

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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2018, 08:23:18 AM »
Why not use car tires for band wheels?  Its commonly done and seems to be quite reliable.  Solves much of the tensioning and bearing issues.  

The wooden wheel might work, but I can't imagine them being reliable in the long term, seeing blade tracking and strength issues in the long term.  It all depends on how long you plan to use the mill, and how hard you plan to tension the band.  Safety would also be an issue.  

I once built a Jon boat trailer out of wood once, (don't ask me why other than I thought it was a good idea at the time).  It worked...for short awhile, just long enough to get me in trouble, ...until it didn't, and it was a bad day.  Just my opinion on using wood for parts that should be made of metal. 
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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2018, 10:27:38 AM »
Linn lumber has decent prices on wheels.

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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2018, 12:14:09 PM »
Got the Motor Running, A new fuel pump was the key!..

 
  


Hi Admin! Can I embed a video from my YouTube channel?  


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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2018, 12:36:40 PM »
So now my required change for the Engine...

It's was removed from a generator and has a couple inches of smooth 1" shaft followed by a slight taper..

The cost of a new 1" keyed shaft for this motor is about $150 shipped but I would then toss the taper shaft (or try to sell it on eBay)...

My upbringing says modifying crankshafts is a no-no (not sure why)  but what's the downside of grinding out a quarter-inch keyway and putting a pulley on this shaft? 

I hate to burn $150 and a working crank just to avoid a Faux-Pas...

It

 
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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2018, 12:40:27 PM »
I would be worried about using a grinder and heating one area to much causing a brittle spot. But if you have a mill with carbide cutter I would not feel bad about it at all.
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Offline milhead

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Pulleys are expensive....
« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2018, 03:07:00 PM »
Yikes, drive pulleys are expensive!

Just some thinking ahead before I start scrounging...

Engine Pulley: 3.15"
Drive Pulley: 12"
 
This gets near the 3.8:1 that Im looking for

Ideal------ 
Engine HP: 7-8
Engine RPM: 3600
Goal Band Wheel RPM 944
Goal Band Speed 5000 fpm
 
For 7-8 HP Im thinking a little smaller engine pulley than recommended to keep cost down on the big pulley, its still expensive.  But am planning on running two A belts
 
These all 1/4 x 1/8 keys
 
Is it OK to use the belts as a clutch (aka Lawn Tractor Transmission)..  If I make or buy a tensioner wheel I could use it to tighten the belts  Centrifugal clutches for 7-10 HP get expensive 



 
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Can the engine bushing handle a side load.
« Reply #18 on: July 25, 2018, 03:18:25 PM »
Hi Again forum! 

Sorry to my constant tossing out of questions...  I can't stop designing this thing in my head...

Is it reasonable to ask the 10HP engine to carry the load of a pulley or should I run a 1" keyed non-rigid couple to a small 1" shaft supported by it's own pillow block bearings (Similar to the band-wheel setup)...

This would get rid of some of the compactness of the engine assembly but moving some mass away from the band wheels (on the other side of the main frame) will actually help balance the whole head unit.
Time spent on hobbies is not deducted from your life span
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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2018, 04:12:19 PM »
My 9.5 hp carries the load on the shaft.  Centrifugal clutch is mounted on the engine shaft.  (Woodland Mills HM126).  I think most of those engines are designed for belt drive/side load. The drive wheel for the saw is the driven pulley from the engine.  The blade runs on top of the drive belt.  That also allows a larger diameter pulley on the engine shaft, which is slips less than a smaller dia. pulley.  
HM126


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