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Author Topic: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)  (Read 4242 times)

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Offline milhead

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Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« on: July 24, 2018, 07:56:47 PM »
Hi Folks,

I've got a gob of Maple and am too cheap to lay out for a commercial mill (so far)..  
On the plus side I love to build stuff and have no real schedule.

I've built a couple CNC Routers and want to scale up to a Sawmill.  

Starting at completely the wrong end I bought a 172" blade from Timberwolf, have an old 10HP Chinese clone of a WW2 era Yanmar L100 Diesel Engine..  4' of 1 1/4 shaft, and a gob of oddball stuff around the shop...  oh, and time..  Lots of time.

And lots of problems...

1) Can I use wood band wheels if I laminate them up out of Baltic birch?..  My first try will be 1" web, I may go to 1.5"
2) Can I get the engine running... (No Fuel at injector but I have a new pump coming today)
3) Engine is off a generator (Tapered Shaft.. Adapter or new crank.. Hmmm)

I like the designs that support both sides of the wheels and am starting there.

The CAD drawing is mostly so I can figure some dimensions..  My current build goal is just to get the head assembled and working.

We'll see how it goes...



 



 

 

 

 

Not sure I can post video links..  We'll see

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Anyway, I'm reading and learning
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Offline sealark37

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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2018, 08:42:40 PM »
Whether you are building from scratch, or rebuilding a sawmill,  there is always a series of problems that have to be worked out, replaced, or rebuilt.  Just keep at it until it works right.  Make sure that your diesel has fuel to the injection pump, and you have compression with no intake air restriction.  Bleed the injectors.         Good Luck, and keep us advised of the progress.      Regards, Clark

Offline Bruno of NH

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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2018, 08:58:49 PM »
The band wheels will be to lite 
You need the weight for the flywheel effect 
thomas 8013 mill ,Mahindra 3540 cab tractor loader  Dump trailer  and lot of contracting tools

Offline bandmiller2

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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2018, 09:05:15 PM »
Welcome Millhead, theirs so much to consider when building a band mill, and theirs reams of reading on this forum. I built my own mill about 15 years ago and its still putting out. Your basic design is good. There are places to cut corners but the band wheels are not one of them, they are one of the most important parts. I would look into Cooks they sell wheels and mill parts, guides est. You might as well engineer a hydraulically assisted mill from the start especially feed and log turning. I'm sure others will be along shortly. Frank C.
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Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2018, 09:08:47 PM »
It's none of my business but I wouldn't trust wooden band wheels .I'm not a fan of those old diesels either .That said good luck,be safe .

Offline Percy

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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2018, 09:43:23 PM »
This mill has only a 4 hp electric and is seems to cut quite nicely...Wooden band wheels and all. Pretty cool and cheap too. I might add a blade guard to this one...heh



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Offline milhead

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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2018, 09:57:58 PM »
Welcome Millhead, theirs so much to consider when building a band mill, and theirs reams of reading on this forum. I built my own mill about 15 years ago and its still putting out. Your basic design is good. There are places to cut corners but the band wheels are not one of them, they are one of the most important parts. I would look into Cooks they sell wheels and mill parts, guides est. You might as well engineer a hydraulically assisted mill from the start especially feed and log turning. I'm sure others will be along shortly. Frank C.
I'd love to start this way but my Cooks shopping cart says $717!  Youza! I'll get the head built and design protect for 19" wheels in case it turns out as my limiting factor, I'll have to make some kick-a@$@ guards in case the birch wheels disintegrate under load.  Hopefully if I have a 'safe' spectacular failure I'll catch it on camera...  
Thanks for the heads up, I've linked the wheels and now need to increase my budget.
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Offline milhead

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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2018, 10:05:56 PM »
It's none of my business but I wouldn't trust wooden band wheels .I'm not a fan of those old diesels either .That said good luck,be safe .
It's totally your business or I would not have posted, and all feedback is welcomed!...   I've built a lot of machinery out of the voidless Baltic birch, maybe I'll spin one up too watch it come apart...   The comments about the missing mass I had not thought about.
I wish I could afford a 10-15 HP engine, the Harbor Freight comes close but makes me as nervous as the old diesel (lordy I hate the smell of diesel), but the 10HP electric I'd prefer, I don't have and my shop only has a 100A single phase feed.  (I'm still trolling Craigslist)..
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Offline Southside logger

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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2018, 10:38:58 PM »
A lot of old machinery ran on wooden wheels, axles, etc, BUT they turned a lot slower back then. I would be concerned with how your bearings will seat and stay put first. I suspect they will fail and it will be spectacular. Guarding is one thing, a band  running at a mile a minute that has come un hinged in a way that is not normally experienced could be a recipe for disaster. 

I wish you well and salute you for your bravery! 
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Offline btulloh

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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2018, 11:01:10 PM »
Fwiw - the hf 13 hp engine is pretty good.
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Offline milhead

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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2018, 02:05:22 AM »
A lot of old machinery ran on wooden wheels, axles, etc, BUT they turned a lot slower back then. I would be concerned with how your bearings will seat and stay put first. I suspect they will fail and it will be spectacular. Guarding is one thing, a band  running at a mile a minute that has come un hinged in a way that is not normally experienced could be a recipe for disaster.

I wish you well and salute you for your bravery!
I learned on all my CNC stuff not to try to seat bearings in wood..  I'm going to either turn a keyed flange to bolt to the side of the wheels or find some other way to secure them..  For both my drive and idle wheels i'm turning 1-1/4 shaft in a pair of pillow blocks..  Not sure how I'll do it yet.. stay tuned
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Offline bandmiller2

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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2018, 07:22:17 AM »
Surplus center sells Vee sheves reasonable. When a fella is building his own he can try whatever he likes. Try the wooden wheels, but I would make them the same dimensions as metal so they could be switched in the future. Frank C.
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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2018, 08:23:18 AM »
Why not use car tires for band wheels?  Its commonly done and seems to be quite reliable.  Solves much of the tensioning and bearing issues.  

The wooden wheel might work, but I can't imagine them being reliable in the long term, seeing blade tracking and strength issues in the long term.  It all depends on how long you plan to use the mill, and how hard you plan to tension the band.  Safety would also be an issue.  

I once built a Jon boat trailer out of wood once, (don't ask me why other than I thought it was a good idea at the time).  It worked...for short awhile, just long enough to get me in trouble, ...until it didn't, and it was a bad day.  Just my opinion on using wood for parts that should be made of metal. 
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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2018, 10:27:38 AM »
Linn lumber has decent prices on wheels.

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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2018, 12:14:09 PM »
Got the Motor Running, A new fuel pump was the key!..

 
  


Hi Admin! Can I embed a video from my YouTube channel?  


>
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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2018, 12:36:40 PM »
So now my required change for the Engine...

It's was removed from a generator and has a couple inches of smooth 1" shaft followed by a slight taper..

The cost of a new 1" keyed shaft for this motor is about $150 shipped but I would then toss the taper shaft (or try to sell it on eBay)...

My upbringing says modifying crankshafts is a no-no (not sure why)  but what's the downside of grinding out a quarter-inch keyway and putting a pulley on this shaft? 

I hate to burn $150 and a working crank just to avoid a Faux-Pas...

It

 
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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2018, 12:40:27 PM »
I would be worried about using a grinder and heating one area to much causing a brittle spot. But if you have a mill with carbide cutter I would not feel bad about it at all.
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Offline milhead

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Pulleys are expensive....
« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2018, 03:07:00 PM »
Yikes, drive pulleys are expensive!

Just some thinking ahead before I start scrounging...

Engine Pulley: 3.15"
Drive Pulley: 12"
 
This gets near the 3.8:1 that Im looking for

Ideal------ 
Engine HP: 7-8
Engine RPM: 3600
Goal Band Wheel RPM 944
Goal Band Speed 5000 fpm
 
For 7-8 HP Im thinking a little smaller engine pulley than recommended to keep cost down on the big pulley, its still expensive.  But am planning on running two A belts
 
These all 1/4 x 1/8 keys
 
Is it OK to use the belts as a clutch (aka Lawn Tractor Transmission)..  If I make or buy a tensioner wheel I could use it to tighten the belts  Centrifugal clutches for 7-10 HP get expensive 



 
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Can the engine bushing handle a side load.
« Reply #18 on: July 25, 2018, 03:18:25 PM »
Hi Again forum! 

Sorry to my constant tossing out of questions...  I can't stop designing this thing in my head...

Is it reasonable to ask the 10HP engine to carry the load of a pulley or should I run a 1" keyed non-rigid couple to a small 1" shaft supported by it's own pillow block bearings (Similar to the band-wheel setup)...

This would get rid of some of the compactness of the engine assembly but moving some mass away from the band wheels (on the other side of the main frame) will actually help balance the whole head unit.
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Offline btulloh

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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2018, 04:12:19 PM »
My 9.5 hp carries the load on the shaft.  Centrifugal clutch is mounted on the engine shaft.  (Woodland Mills HM126).  I think most of those engines are designed for belt drive/side load. The drive wheel for the saw is the driven pulley from the engine.  The blade runs on top of the drive belt.  That also allows a larger diameter pulley on the engine shaft, which is slips less than a smaller dia. pulley.  
HM126

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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2018, 05:35:26 PM »
...The blade runs on top of the drive belt.  That also allows a larger diameter pulley on the engine shaft, which is slips less than a smaller dia. pulley.  
I've seen a lot of designs that do this (using the back of a belt in a big pulley as a band-wheel), Does the resulting narrow drive wheel cause any issues?
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Offline Southside logger

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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #21 on: July 25, 2018, 09:50:13 PM »
Woodmizer has what, 2 million mills out there that run this way? Seems to be a proven set up.
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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #22 on: July 25, 2018, 10:44:37 PM »
Belts are 5/8. That pretty much makes the crown. Teeth hang over the edge so you don't lose your set.  Lots of contact area and there's fewer points to lose power through slippage.  Seems to be a proven system.  
HM126

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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #23 on: July 26, 2018, 05:22:42 AM »
Although it can be a bone of contention electric motors actually produce more power than either gasoline or diesel .It doesn't take nearly the HP rating to achieve more power .There's charts on it but if the motor were true HP ,not alleged "develops" such and such I would speculate that around 4 HP electric would equate to 10 gasoline .
This subject has been kicked around nearly as much as the great oil wars so I won't elaborate on it .

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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #24 on: July 26, 2018, 05:56:32 AM »
lthough it can be a bone of contention electric motors actually produce more power than either gasoline or diesel


It's the torque curve that gives an electric motor it's advantage. When you load up a gas engine and it loses revs, it's torque also drops off, and you basically "bog down". When you load up an electric motor your torque actually increases, so it's better able to resist the drop in speed, and power through that knot. 

It's the same with electric and hybrid cars, they perform better than the specs might suggest, because they have a heap of low down torque, which is great for getting off the line from zero. 

Exact numbers are impossible to pin down because different electric and gas engines have different characteristics. But I'd expect a good 4 hp electric to run at least as well as 7-8hp gas engine, and those are common enough on small bandmills. 
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Retiring the Wood Wheel Idea...
« Reply #25 on: July 26, 2018, 10:29:29 AM »
Through nearly unanimous opinion I'm going to change (cant't really say retire) from my wood bandwheels to some 19" pulleys.. I've been worried about the wood from the start and they really don't save me that much money combined with the concern about them coming apart with flair!

The flip side is that now I've got to raid the pocketbook and am no longer building from shop junk (well aside from the YanClone fuel pump).

My next turn will be to try the system woodland uses where the drive pulley is the drive wheel, I like the reduction in parts (expensive parts).    

I still really like the 'supported on both sides' style bandwheel support, it seems that it will allow much less steel to keep rigid.

Stay Tuned!



 
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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #26 on: July 26, 2018, 06:00:59 PM »
Upgrading to steel wheels is a good idea.  However, those wood wheels are pretty cool.  I'd say use them to build a woodshop band saw.  Much lower speeds and with narrower saw blade (with much less tension), they should last for that.
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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #27 on: July 26, 2018, 06:30:28 PM »
o achieve
   It is not a bone of contention with me.  Just think about it. When an internal combustion engine is rated. It is when it is new and at sea level. If you are not at sea level. You will lose about 3% of the power for every one thousand feet above sea level. Also when the rings and valves start to wear, you don't have the same power as when the engine was new. An electric motor does not have all those parts to wear. It only has two bearings. And elevation, who cares. When an electric motor starts to slow, it starts pulling more amps.          
I did an experiment with a 3 hp electric motor.  Wired on 240 V. It produced a full 3 hp. (I have a dyno) Wire on  120v it produced 2.3 hp. The only difference being voltage drop. So if you go electric, make sure your wire size is ample.  You guys that are stationary should go electric, the savings are there.     Muggs

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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #28 on: July 26, 2018, 07:17:10 PM »
For hooking to your tapered crankshaft, I wouldn't modify the crank. I'd grab a slightly undersized taperlock style hub, and machine the insert to match the taper on the shaft, clamp it up, and go from there.

Good luck on your project. You're not too far away from me. There are several small mills in our area.
Stuart Caruk
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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #29 on: July 26, 2018, 08:49:51 PM »
I have a bandmill that is still a work in progress .I've toyed with the idea of using a 10 HP three phase motor running off a rotary phase converter . The converter will be a DIY thing because I've built many .Either that or a 31HP Wisconsin 4 banger .I have a few more options because I have many electric motors and gas engines .Tires not band wheels .
This mill will be movable  but set up as a stationary unit because I have no desire to pull it all over to cut up somebodies lawn trees just because I'm a nice guy . Come next Tuesday after over 50 years of doing electrical work I'm going to retire .Enough is enough .

Offline bandmiller2

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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #30 on: July 26, 2018, 09:16:01 PM »
Millhead, can you cut a piece off the generator armature that fits the tapered shaft and then mount with a taperlock.??The tapered armature shafts are usually held on the tapered engine crank with a through bolt. Frank C.
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Re: Retiring the Wood Wheel Idea...
« Reply #31 on: July 26, 2018, 10:15:22 PM »
Through nearly unanimous opinion I'm going to change (cant't really say retire) from my wood bandwheels to some 19" pulleys.. I've been worried about the wood from the start and they really don't save me that much money combined with the concern about them coming apart with flair!

The flip side is that now I've got to raid the pocketbook and am no longer building from shop junk (well aside from the YanClone fuel pump).
Good for you, good decision. 8)
Along with others on the Forum, Ive seen and had some pretty wicked things happen on a bandmill, and I think that any money you have to spend out of pocket now on reliable wheels you would have had to spend later on medical deductibles.  
Its all fun until someone gets hurt.  
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Plan A, Fail... On to Plan-B (it's a sure thing!)
« Reply #32 on: August 03, 2018, 01:40:28 PM »
Well we tried with great vigor to get clearance under the mill to cut a keyway in the 1" shaft but there was no solution that provided the required clearance.  In the back of our minds (we were still in denial) there was really not enough shaft left to properly support the clutch and pulley anyway...

Enter Plan-B,   

At the heart of the armature that was removed from the non-working generator is a shaft that properly mates with the engine output shaft 
(credit to the the forum members that predicted this path,  the "Told You So" buffet-line is growing, better get in).

Here is the detailed (ala Wylie-Coyote) drawing of Plan-B..  Depending on the size and condition of the shaft within the armature It will at least require support at the far end..  Shown is the extreme mode where I decouple the shafts and support the clutch with two pillow bearings...  



 

Dead-armature-walking....  I'm sure there is a 1"-ish shaft waiting to escape all that winding, commutator, electric stuff!  

This weekend I'll be cutoff-tooling all the unwanted fodder with extreme prejudice...



 
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bandsaw head-unit construction
« Reply #33 on: August 03, 2018, 02:55:11 PM »
Hi Folks,

I'm using a Timberwolf 1-3/8" x 13/16" Cobalt Blade. PN 114m4286SS 0' 176"

The PSI manufacturer specifications are referring to the blade cross-sectional area but I want to check my math..

(my quick math says about 500lbs on the blade X2 for two blades so 1000 lbs force is mid-range, I'll design for a ton)

Question:
   What ballpark range of pounds-force should I design for to separate my band-wheels to tension a blade?

Mil


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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #34 on: August 04, 2018, 06:53:52 PM »
My math says 630 lbs x 2 = 1260 lbs total is the minimum tension that might work and

1.375 x .042 x 15000 = 866    (x 2) = 1732 lbs (I would consider this a mid range number and design for capability to handle at least 2000 lbs with minimum deflection of the frame)
You may think that you can or may think you can't; either way, you are right.

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Got the shaft out of the armature!
« Reply #35 on: August 06, 2018, 12:07:13 AM »
Took a few grinding wheels but I got the shaft out of the armature.  I had to cut out one side before I could break the bond.

Comes out to 1.1", Hopefully I can cut it down to 1" and have enough room left to cut my key..  

There seems to be a fair amount of metal inside so I think it will work.



 


 
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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #36 on: August 06, 2018, 04:36:27 AM »
If that mics out to 1.1 in, Chuck it up in a drill press and ghetto lathe your way down to 1 via sand paper. Go slow so you approach your final target, would hate to blow thru.

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Getting the ammature shaft to 1"
« Reply #37 on: August 07, 2018, 11:05:44 PM »
Well I'm certainly no machinist but fortunately can get access to a lathe at work...

Got the armature shaft down to one inch and will cut the keyway later this week.

Pretty fun!



 

More evidence I'm no machinist...


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Finally, clutch on Engine!
« Reply #38 on: August 10, 2018, 10:56:38 AM »
I'll have to support the end of the shaft with another bearing but finally have a way to connect the clutch to the ex-armature shaft.


 

 
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Roughing out the head.. Whad to you call it
« Reply #39 on: August 11, 2018, 07:05:47 PM »
Well I have the basics of the bandsaw cut out.





I need to add the metal that will keep it all operating in line.   I also need to add the 3/4 rods for the die-springs to ride on.

Right now the frame is upside down, After flipping it over the bottle-pump should work. (should)..

Band-wheels came, Nothing keeping me from assembling the saw's head except my motivation.


 

 

 
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Bottom side of what I call the carriage nearly done
« Reply #40 on: August 12, 2018, 11:22:54 PM »
Spent some time in the shop today!

Completed the bottom side of what I am now calling the carriage.. The end of the bandsaw that will move to get the blade tensioned.

I'll be picking up 8 9/16x2 bolts to mount the pillow blocks tomorrow.






 

 


 
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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #41 on: August 13, 2018, 08:06:40 AM »
I have never had any luck with bottle jacks in that orientation. I hope it works for you.
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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #42 on: August 13, 2018, 10:35:10 AM »
If the bottle jack proves to be unsatasfactory, replace it with the cylinder off a cheap floor jack. Designed to be used in a horizontal position. Why hydraulic AND springs ? Keep in mind that a fully tensioned blade gonna put TONS of force on the pillow blocks..
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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #43 on: August 13, 2018, 03:41:10 PM »
If the bottle jack proves to be unsatasfactory, replace it with the cylinder off a cheap floor jack. Designed to be used in a horizontal position. Why hydraulic AND springs ? Keep in mind that a fully tensioned blade gonna put TONS of force on the pillow blocks..
The 4 springs are each 500lb/inch die springs and should be mid-range with the ton of force that I think I'm designing around..   I was hoping to get a little give and create an empirical tension gauge that reads lose/good/tight like a fire-extinguisher gauge.  
I'm planning on using a flutter method to set my tension then as I understand it (Remember, absolutely no sawmill experience here) blade expansion will occur with heat and I was hoping the springs would give me a bit more dynamic system than a cylinder alone.
I played with using a trailer jack as well but I'd then have to put my hands in where I'm planning a very solid blade guard to live (Yikes!)
The photo is of the bottom of the head unit so the bottle-jack-pump will be below the reservoir, guaranteed won't work if it's on top.
In the end, It's shop junk so if I have to upgrade it's not like this version cost me anything.  I like your idea of the floor jack, I have an old one of those as well.
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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #44 on: August 13, 2018, 04:03:17 PM »
blade expansion will occur with heat
When a blade heats up and expands, it needs attention to determine why it heated up.  Just tightening more could mask the problem and you end up with poor cutting quality or a broken blade.

This is not to indicate that I do not like the spring idea because I do, but for you to be aware of what's happening to make the blade get hot.  When I loose tension I know that the blade is heating up and a hot blade usually indicates a dull blade and needs replacing.
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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #45 on: August 13, 2018, 08:44:23 PM »
If your bottle jacks don't work there are horizontal bottle jacks on the market. 
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Finaly turned the head unit right-side up
« Reply #46 on: August 16, 2018, 02:30:59 PM »
Most everything is now connected to the frame..  I received my 19" non-wood band-wheels but no gantry..  

I think I'm going to build some temporary legs for this thing.

Then I can build mounts for the engine, clearance for the bandwheels and get the blade running. 

After all that works I'll design the gantry and bed mount it to.. It will take a steel investment that I don't want to make for a while (couple weeks anyway).

Engine will mount on the near side on an adjustable slide.  

I will need to mount a plate with bolts to that left brace so I can make a slot to pass a belt through..  It's aggressively tacked on now.



 



 

 
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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #47 on: August 16, 2018, 02:45:56 PM »
I used an engine stand I had had laying around and just clamped the sawframe to it. Worked pretty good, held it at a nice height and gave me the ability to flip it over.
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Starting to take shape!
« Reply #48 on: August 17, 2018, 04:42:03 PM »
It's taken me more work to get here than I thought but been a lot of head-scratching fun!

Today's  job is the engine mount and figuring how long the drive belt needs to be.



 


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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #49 on: August 17, 2018, 06:37:45 PM »
Unless I'm missing something, it looks like you gotta take a bunch of stuff loose to put the belts on your bandwheels??
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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #50 on: August 17, 2018, 11:08:28 PM »
Unless I'm missing something, it looks like you gotta take a bunch of stuff loose to put the belts on your bandwheels??
Yeah, I'm going to mount bolt-on planes to the cross support then cut a slot thru it to install the belt.  I've just not gotten around to it. 
I had to get the motor mocked up to tell how long the drive belt was
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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #51 on: August 18, 2018, 08:35:08 AM »
I would consider putting an extra inside of the loop.  ;)  Not that they wear out or get cut by a broken blade that often but it does happen.  Of course I saw "portable" and when I have a belt failure I always have a customer looking at me.  
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That's a great idea
« Reply #52 on: August 18, 2018, 01:15:22 PM »
I would consider putting an extra inside of the loop.  ;)  Not that they wear out or get cut by a broken blade that often but it does happen.  Of course I saw "portable" and when I have a belt failure I always have a customer looking at me.  
I'm still fooling with belt sizes but at $10 it would really be worth not having to pull half the thing apart to change it, It would easily zip-tie out of the way.
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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #53 on: August 18, 2018, 01:42:58 PM »
I would strongly recommend getting Wood-Mizer belts.  They are specially manufactured to have a flat top surface and no overlap high spot which you commonly see with automotive belts.  I use the "loose fitting" B 57 belts that Wood-Mizer recommends for my sawmill.
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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #54 on: August 18, 2018, 03:35:07 PM »
I second what Magicman says there. From experience I can tell you that auto parts store belts will not last nearly as long as the Woodmizer ones do. 
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Later that weekend, In the shop...
« Reply #55 on: August 20, 2018, 12:23:07 PM »
I spent a few hours this weekend (OK, several hours) working out some of the minutia of belts, exhaust, mounts, drain-plugs, etc..  

I have to carve a beltway through the two members to the left of the clutch, I'm planning on bolting a support to each then removing the support, cutting a 1" way for the belt then bolting the supports back on..  I'm more worried about the engine mount support than the big cross beam as it's a direction of forces thing...

I may swap the clutch and bearing on the shaft so that I don't have to remove the engine shaft bearing to change belts as well.  There will be a couple wrenches involved but not having to un-mount the engine or anything that severe.

Next I need to add the fuel tank and battery tray.  It's a lot of mass up high but I don't see anywhere else to put it.  It's not too high, As it sits on my bench (on it's temporary legs) it's sitting about as high as I would ever put it above a bed.   If it goes on a trailer It will be a bit taller, I've been hunting boat trailers on Craigslist to see what turns up.

I've ordered the Woodmizer belts, onece they show up I'll have to muster the courage to get everything aligned and see if I can spin a blade... Slowely..

And I need to clean the shop.




 
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More Progress, Nearly ready for first spin!
« Reply #56 on: August 27, 2018, 02:45:52 PM »
Got some more time to spend on the saw this weekend..  Engine is ready to be fired up but I need to align the wheels before I can try spinning the blade.  To date the thing has never really been tensioned as I've not aligned the band-wheels.

I need to order or make some Blade guides, I think I'd like to make some and am working on rounding up some cheap stock.

I'll post a video of the first running of the head when I get it going.




 

 
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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #57 on: August 27, 2018, 06:15:21 PM »
The blade guides need 6 way adjustment capability.  You want them level with the sawmill bed,  " downward pressure from the bottom of the bladewheels, the flange ~1/8" behind the back of the blade, and the blade guides need to slightly point toward the direction from which the blade is traveling.

But your blade tracking will be your first concern.
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Tiny-Adjusters
« Reply #58 on: August 30, 2018, 11:59:59 PM »
I did not want to make alignment adjusters that were strong enough to modify alignment.

The downside of this is that I have to release tension on the blade to make the small adjustments but then clamp the pillow blocks down with the large mounting bolts.

Pretty crummy welds but I was upside down and blind..   When I take it apart next I'll clean up the mounting.



 
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Some Videos, Missed the blade coming off
« Reply #59 on: August 31, 2018, 11:47:33 AM »
Finally got the head running...

Nearly forgot to put oil in the crankcase of the engine (I'd taken it out when I brought the engine to the machine shop)

Had to bleed air from the high pressure fuel line (Hope that's not a daily requirement)

The tiny set screw on the clutch is not sufficient to hold it in place..  real shaft collars on order.

Suspect I did not properly tighten bandwheel set screws...  More shaft collars on order anyway.

Ran really great for a while...  Then the bandwheels came out of line and the blade fell off...    If I had been paying attention I would have seen it long in advance...

No Blood!

Actually the tunnel under the fuel tank has a bolted-in piece of angle that will not allow the band to leave the machine if it comes off, this works well and the band pretty much stayed in place.. 

Hopefully it's not damaged.. Blade Looks Fine.  I'm Fine...  Made my heart race though!





And *DanG, I did not have the camera running when the blade came off




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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #60 on: August 31, 2018, 05:20:52 PM »
Wowser, that beast runs with authority so at least you will know who is the boss.  :)  Actually when the blade is turning it is the boss.  Looks good.   smiley_thumbsup  
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Blade Guides
« Reply #61 on: August 31, 2018, 06:18:45 PM »
Made an amazon bearing buy and a trip to the hardware store...
Here are my blade guide beginnings..



 
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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #62 on: August 31, 2018, 10:54:21 PM »
Actually the tunnel under the fuel tank has a bolted-in piece of angle that will not allow the band to leave the machine if it comes off, this works well and the band pretty much stayed in place..


Just keep in mind that this piece works if the band happens to be in the form of a loop, should she break it will be a different story.  I can understand the band coming off being a shocking moment - but it is nothing compared to the BANG of a band breaking, that will make you jump even when it is contained within all of the guarding...  not telling you what to do but something to really think about while you do your testing.  

Nice work on the fabrication there.  
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Ground off the zink coating but still got splatter
« Reply #63 on: September 01, 2018, 12:42:05 AM »
 

 

 
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Woo Hoo! Secured funding for more parts..
« Reply #64 on: September 09, 2018, 02:11:43 PM »
Got clearance from my lovely wife to spend some more money on sawmill parts...



 
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Offline milhead

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Started on the blade guides
« Reply #65 on: September 09, 2018, 02:18:38 PM »
I need to shorten my bolts but I started setting up the blade guides today.




 

 
Time spent on hobbies is not deducted from your life span
                                    -- I'm sure someone said it.

Offline milhead

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Standing on the real gantry at last!
« Reply #66 on: Today at 12:43:39 PM »
I got waylaid for a while with removing a wall in the house but got the head on it's own legs this weekend!

Still seeking a scrap RV I can salvage the trailer from for a bed (or at least the beginnings of one).

I still cannot weld out of position!  Really ugly joints on this one.



 

 
Time spent on hobbies is not deducted from your life span
                                    -- I'm sure someone said it.

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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #67 on: Today at 12:49:16 PM »
I like the way you use the drive belt as the wheel belt. for my next build that will probably be what I decide to do.
I knew what I thought I meant.

Offline milhead

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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #68 on: Today at 02:44:45 PM »
I like the way you use the drive belt as the wheel belt. for my next build that will probably be what I decide to do.
Some commercial mills use it, I like the reduction in parts...  Unfortunately my blade will only run about 3500fps with the current gearing.. I'll have to add a small multiplier between the clutch and big drive pulley to get to the design goal of 5000fps.  The blade manufacturer says that the blade airflow at 5000fps (about 56 MPH) is required to properly clear sawdust from the kerf. That was my design goal.
I'll add the belt-pully multiplier later, it's not a first-pass fix.
Time spent on hobbies is not deducted from your life span
                                    -- I'm sure someone said it.


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