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Author Topic: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)  (Read 2477 times)

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Offline milhead

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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2018, 05:35:26 PM »
...The blade runs on top of the drive belt.  That also allows a larger diameter pulley on the engine shaft, which is slips less than a smaller dia. pulley.  
I've seen a lot of designs that do this (using the back of a belt in a big pulley as a band-wheel), Does the resulting narrow drive wheel cause any issues?
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Offline Southside logger

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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #21 on: July 25, 2018, 09:50:13 PM »
Woodmizer has what, 2 million mills out there that run this way? Seems to be a proven set up.
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Offline btulloh

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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #22 on: July 25, 2018, 10:44:37 PM »
Belts are 5/8. That pretty much makes the crown. Teeth hang over the edge so you don't lose your set.  Lots of contact area and there's fewer points to lose power through slippage.  Seems to be a proven system.  
HM126

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #23 on: July 26, 2018, 05:22:42 AM »
Although it can be a bone of contention electric motors actually produce more power than either gasoline or diesel .It doesn't take nearly the HP rating to achieve more power .There's charts on it but if the motor were true HP ,not alleged "develops" such and such I would speculate that around 4 HP electric would equate to 10 gasoline .
This subject has been kicked around nearly as much as the great oil wars so I won't elaborate on it .

Offline Ianab

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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #24 on: July 26, 2018, 05:56:32 AM »
lthough it can be a bone of contention electric motors actually produce more power than either gasoline or diesel


It's the torque curve that gives an electric motor it's advantage. When you load up a gas engine and it loses revs, it's torque also drops off, and you basically "bog down". When you load up an electric motor your torque actually increases, so it's better able to resist the drop in speed, and power through that knot. 

It's the same with electric and hybrid cars, they perform better than the specs might suggest, because they have a heap of low down torque, which is great for getting off the line from zero. 

Exact numbers are impossible to pin down because different electric and gas engines have different characteristics. But I'd expect a good 4 hp electric to run at least as well as 7-8hp gas engine, and those are common enough on small bandmills. 
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Offline milhead

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Retiring the Wood Wheel Idea...
« Reply #25 on: July 26, 2018, 10:29:29 AM »
Through nearly unanimous opinion I'm going to change (cant't really say retire) from my wood bandwheels to some 19" pulleys.. I've been worried about the wood from the start and they really don't save me that much money combined with the concern about them coming apart with flair!

The flip side is that now I've got to raid the pocketbook and am no longer building from shop junk (well aside from the YanClone fuel pump).

My next turn will be to try the system woodland uses where the drive pulley is the drive wheel, I like the reduction in parts (expensive parts).    

I still really like the 'supported on both sides' style bandwheel support, it seems that it will allow much less steel to keep rigid.

Stay Tuned!



 
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Offline ljohnsaw

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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #26 on: July 26, 2018, 06:00:59 PM »
Upgrading to steel wheels is a good idea.  However, those wood wheels are pretty cool.  I'd say use them to build a woodshop band saw.  Much lower speeds and with narrower saw blade (with much less tension), they should last for that.
John Sawicky

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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #27 on: July 26, 2018, 06:30:28 PM »
o achieve
   It is not a bone of contention with me.  Just think about it. When an internal combustion engine is rated. It is when it is new and at sea level. If you are not at sea level. You will lose about 3% of the power for every one thousand feet above sea level. Also when the rings and valves start to wear, you don't have the same power as when the engine was new. An electric motor does not have all those parts to wear. It only has two bearings. And elevation, who cares. When an electric motor starts to slow, it starts pulling more amps.          
I did an experiment with a 3 hp electric motor.  Wired on 240 V. It produced a full 3 hp. (I have a dyno) Wire on  120v it produced 2.3 hp. The only difference being voltage drop. So if you go electric, make sure your wire size is ample.  You guys that are stationary should go electric, the savings are there.     Muggs

Offline Stuart Caruk

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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #28 on: July 26, 2018, 07:17:10 PM »
For hooking to your tapered crankshaft, I wouldn't modify the crank. I'd grab a slightly undersized taperlock style hub, and machine the insert to match the taper on the shaft, clamp it up, and go from there.

Good luck on your project. You're not too far away from me. There are several small mills in our area.
Stuart Caruk
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Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #29 on: July 26, 2018, 08:49:51 PM »
I have a bandmill that is still a work in progress .I've toyed with the idea of using a 10 HP three phase motor running off a rotary phase converter . The converter will be a DIY thing because I've built many .Either that or a 31HP Wisconsin 4 banger .I have a few more options because I have many electric motors and gas engines .Tires not band wheels .
This mill will be movable  but set up as a stationary unit because I have no desire to pull it all over to cut up somebodies lawn trees just because I'm a nice guy . Come next Tuesday after over 50 years of doing electrical work I'm going to retire .Enough is enough .

Offline bandmiller2

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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #30 on: July 26, 2018, 09:16:01 PM »
Millhead, can you cut a piece off the generator armature that fits the tapered shaft and then mount with a taperlock.??The tapered armature shafts are usually held on the tapered engine crank with a through bolt. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Offline YellowHammer

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Re: Retiring the Wood Wheel Idea...
« Reply #31 on: July 26, 2018, 10:15:22 PM »
Through nearly unanimous opinion I'm going to change (cant't really say retire) from my wood bandwheels to some 19" pulleys.. I've been worried about the wood from the start and they really don't save me that much money combined with the concern about them coming apart with flair!

The flip side is that now I've got to raid the pocketbook and am no longer building from shop junk (well aside from the YanClone fuel pump).
Good for you, good decision. 8)
Along with others on the Forum, Ive seen and had some pretty wicked things happen on a bandmill, and I think that any money you have to spend out of pocket now on reliable wheels you would have had to spend later on medical deductibles.  
Its all fun until someone gets hurt.  
HobbyHardwoodAlabama.com

Offline milhead

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Plan A, Fail... On to Plan-B (it's a sure thing!)
« Reply #32 on: August 03, 2018, 01:40:28 PM »
Well we tried with great vigor to get clearance under the mill to cut a keyway in the 1" shaft but there was no solution that provided the required clearance.  In the back of our minds (we were still in denial) there was really not enough shaft left to properly support the clutch and pulley anyway...

Enter Plan-B,   

At the heart of the armature that was removed from the non-working generator is a shaft that properly mates with the engine output shaft 
(credit to the the forum members that predicted this path,  the "Told You So" buffet-line is growing, better get in).

Here is the detailed (ala Wylie-Coyote) drawing of Plan-B..  Depending on the size and condition of the shaft within the armature It will at least require support at the far end..  Shown is the extreme mode where I decouple the shafts and support the clutch with two pillow bearings...  



 

Dead-armature-walking....  I'm sure there is a 1"-ish shaft waiting to escape all that winding, commutator, electric stuff!  

This weekend I'll be cutoff-tooling all the unwanted fodder with extreme prejudice...



 
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Offline milhead

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bandsaw head-unit construction
« Reply #33 on: August 03, 2018, 02:55:11 PM »
Hi Folks,

I'm using a Timberwolf 1-3/8" x 13/16" Cobalt Blade. PN 114m4286SS 0' 176"

The PSI manufacturer specifications are referring to the blade cross-sectional area but I want to check my math..

(my quick math says about 500lbs on the blade X2 for two blades so 1000 lbs force is mid-range, I'll design for a ton)

Question:
   What ballpark range of pounds-force should I design for to separate my band-wheels to tension a blade?

Mil


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Offline Den-Den

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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #34 on: August 04, 2018, 06:53:52 PM »
My math says 630 lbs x 2 = 1260 lbs total is the minimum tension that might work and

1.375 x .042 x 15000 = 866    (x 2) = 1732 lbs (I would consider this a mid range number and design for capability to handle at least 2000 lbs with minimum deflection of the frame)
You may think that you can or may think you can't; either way, you are right.

Offline milhead

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Got the shaft out of the armature!
« Reply #35 on: August 06, 2018, 12:07:13 AM »
Took a few grinding wheels but I got the shaft out of the armature.  I had to cut out one side before I could break the bond.

Comes out to 1.1", Hopefully I can cut it down to 1" and have enough room left to cut my key..  

There seems to be a fair amount of metal inside so I think it will work.



 


 
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Offline No_Dude

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Re: Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)
« Reply #36 on: August 06, 2018, 04:36:27 AM »
If that mics out to 1.1 in, Chuck it up in a drill press and ghetto lathe your way down to 1 via sand paper. Go slow so you approach your final target, would hate to blow thru.

Offline milhead

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Getting the ammature shaft to 1"
« Reply #37 on: August 07, 2018, 11:05:44 PM »
Well I'm certainly no machinist but fortunately can get access to a lathe at work...

Got the armature shaft down to one inch and will cut the keyway later this week.

Pretty fun!



 

More evidence I'm no machinist...


Time spent on hobbies is not deducted from your life span
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Offline milhead

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Finally, clutch on Engine!
« Reply #38 on: August 10, 2018, 10:56:38 AM »
I'll have to support the end of the shaft with another bearing but finally have a way to connect the clutch to the ex-armature shaft.


 

 
Time spent on hobbies is not deducted from your life span
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Offline milhead

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Roughing out the head.. Whad to you call it
« Reply #39 on: August 11, 2018, 07:05:47 PM »
Well I have the basics of the bandsaw cut out.





I need to add the metal that will keep it all operating in line.   I also need to add the 3/4 rods for the die-springs to ride on.

Right now the frame is upside down, After flipping it over the bottle-pump should work. (should)..

Band-wheels came, Nothing keeping me from assembling the saw's head except my motivation.


 

 

 
Time spent on hobbies is not deducted from your life span
                                    -- I'm sure someone said it.


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