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Author Topic: 2x8 T&G from sawing to molding  (Read 1376 times)

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Offline Brad_bb

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2x8 T&G from sawing to molding
« on: August 03, 2018, 11:00:27 PM »
Back in the winter I milled Ash 2x8's.  When I couldn't get a 2x8, I made a 2x6 or a 2x4.  There weren't many of those though. 


  
I milled 3888 BF (calculated) and I had another local sawyer pick up logs from the same lot and he milled 2054 BF. He charged $100/hr. and $1/BF to dry in his kiln to 12%(my spec).  The total for his services was $4100.


 
I had a large mill about 50 minutes away come get my 3888 BF and the 2054 BF from his place.
The larger mill charged $.35/BF to dry my 3888 to 12-15%(my spec).

Total BF = 5942

Then the large mill S4S'd all of it for .40/linear foot. They said normally they charge .60 but they gave use a discount on that.

Then the large mill ran it all through the molder to T&G it for $.45/linear foot. It was center matched, but they only did that on one side.  They beveled the other side, which I didn't want but can live with.  

They chose the best side for the center matched "face" of the board.



 

 

 

The drying cost was a lot less with the large mill.  I'll really have to think about where to take my next project to dry.  The sawyer with his own kiln was almost 3x the cost to dry, but he could put what he'd sawn in the kiln right away.  I hadn't found the large mill yet or had any experience with them.  I did it to get some material drying so the GC would have at least enough material so it wouldn't hold up the job.  Well they didn't get as far as a feared and hadn't needed the material yet.  So it all got done together.  This material will be the interior wall of a very nice horse barn and the stall infill in the metal frame work.  The interior wall will go up 8ft, and then the wall material will be furred out 1x7 Ash T&G the other 5 feet and the gable ends(13ft side wall height total).
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Offline GeneWengert-WoodDoc

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Re: 2x8 T&G from sawing to molding
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2018, 11:55:35 PM »
Here is an idea...have them mill two tongues and groves .  Then take the pieces and resaw them in half, doubling the square footage.  Plus you have a smooth face and a sawn rustic face.  Still good for flooring and also paneling.
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Offline Brad_bb

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Re: 2x8 T&G from sawing to molding
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2018, 09:49:59 PM »
Another FF member thought that .35 for KD, .40 for S4S(which was supposed to be discounted from .60 because of volume), and .45 for T&G was high.  Does anyone else have any comparison numbers?  I had a hard time finding anyone to do the machining/molding as some of you may remember from a past post, and this was in hardwood country (central Indiana).  Everyplace wanted to sell me a finished product and would not machine my wood.  I finally found a mill that would.  
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Offline Don P

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Re: 2x8 T&G from sawing to molding
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2018, 12:13:51 AM »
I've tried to put together a business model, would it work, is it worth investing and doing as a business and couldn't make it work with those kind of numbers.

Offline Percy

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Re: 2x8 T&G from sawing to molding
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2018, 11:30:59 AM »
Another FF member thought that .35 for KD, .40 for S4S(which was supposed to be discounted from .60 because of volume), and .45 for T&G was high.  Does anyone else have any comparison numbers?  I had a hard time finding anyone to do the machining/molding as some of you may remember from a past post, and this was in hardwood country (central Indiana).  Everyplace wanted to sell me a finished product and would not machine my wood.  I finally found a mill that would.  
I have run into this same problem many times over the years...to the point that I have bought my own planer moulder.....still waiting for it...regardless, custom planing/molding can be tricky as some folks will bring you dirty awful wood expecting miracles....but...targeting folks who will bring you a lift of kd/storebought clean wood for machining could be a good gig...least Im hoping. The prices you quoted here are high, even in Canadian dollars(according to my research anyways). Can you tell me your total cost per board foot? Im not sure about the 40/s4s and 45/t&g...is that like .85/lin foot? Sorry to hijack..
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Offline Brad_bb

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Re: 2x8 T&G from sawing to molding
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2018, 10:57:48 PM »
No, that's exactly the discussion I wanted.  I'm trying to figure out the total cost.  It's going to be easier to do it in cost/linear foot, which could be converted to square foot.  That is the finished product you end up with.  Boardfoot doesn't really tell you anything about what you end up with.  S4S and molding reduce  your board footage.  What you really want to know is the area covered in the end.  I need to get access to one of the bills tomorrow to have the correct cost.  
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Offline Southside logger

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Re: 2x8 T&G from sawing to molding
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2018, 11:52:16 PM »
I find it interesting that they break out S4S from the moulding work, I lump those together as you can't effectively mould a product without first, or in process, turning it into S4S.  I tried that, it was not pretty. 
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Offline logman 219

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Re: 2x8 T&G from sawing to molding
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2018, 10:04:03 AM »
that is some pricey horse barn stalls !! buy the time you get it on you my need to sell the FARM!!!

Offline Brad_bb

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Re: 2x8 T&G from sawing to molding
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2018, 09:59:54 PM »
So I got the final and corrected numbers
6367 linear feet
3714 square feet

$2.34 per linear foot
$4.00 per square foot.

This does not include my sawing labor (I sawed about 60 percent of it).  It does include sawing labor for the part I didn't do.

Yes this is not an ordinary horse barn.  This is a show/fancy barn.  This is my first time contracting drying, planing, and moulding.  If you have comparative costs, feel free to share.
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Offline Southside logger

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Re: 2x8 T&G from sawing to molding
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2018, 10:22:23 PM »
$2.45 / square foot sawing, drying, T+G, does not include the cost of the lumber itself.
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Offline Don P

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Re: 2x8 T&G from sawing to molding
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2018, 12:28:40 AM »
Brad, if the costs in post 1 are correct then you went from $1.20/lineal to $2.34 and only added the outside sawing to the scope. It looks like the outside sawing cost you $1/lineal in the grand scheme of things. If that's all correct accounting it's good to know so you can know your real opportunity costs when you farm out sawing.

Offline Brad_bb

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Re: 2x8 T&G from sawing to molding
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2018, 09:34:27 AM »
No, that initial post was mostly to show the individual rates I was charged for the drying, S4S, and moulding.  I didn't show the transportation costs,  and there was one more bill from the outside sawyer I was still looking for.  So the final number is correct.  The outside sawyer was higher than I wanted, but as I said I was trying not to get the GC some material and not hold up the project.  I would have sawn it all myself If I thought I had the time.

There's really two issues here.  1)Are the individual rates for drying, S4S, and molding high, low, or fair market.  How does the final cost compare per linear foot for 2x8 Ash T&G with 7" face?

Logs were off of the owners property, so no cost there.  
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Offline Stephen1

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Re: 2x8 T&G from sawing to molding
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2018, 11:56:52 AM »
I have costs here for a vacum kiln of $1.50 a bd ft and the radial kiln of $1.75 bd ft.
I have found a planing mill that charges me $180 my softwood, 1"3/8" x 6" cedar decking. it cost $125 for 1000 linear ft.   I am always put on the end run of a large commercial project, otherwise it is 4 hrs to set up the planer.
I realize that I am in Canadian $, and softwood, but I wanted to follow this post and thought I would throw my numbers out there.
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Offline ScottCC

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Re: 2x8 T&G from sawing to molding
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2018, 07:10:04 AM »
PI recently bought about same quantity of Douglas Fir 2x8 in an exaggerated v-groove profile.  Big mill charged $3.19 all in on wood at 17% MC.  Im sure stock 2x8 construction lumber.  When you back out material it turned on into  68 cents per foot to mill.  Time to buy mp260 for next one.  1 job 40 percent machine paid for.
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Re: 2x8 T&G from sawing to molding
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2018, 04:20:45 PM »
Another FF member thought that .35 for KD, .40 for S4S(which was supposed to be discounted from .60 because of volume), and .45 for T&G was high.  Does anyone else have any comparison numbers?  I had a hard time finding anyone to do the machining/molding as some of you may remember from a past post, and this was in hardwood country (central Indiana).  Everyplace wanted to sell me a finished product and would not machine my wood.  I finally found a mill that would.  
Brad, thats much less than what I charge.  Perhaps if I had higher volume production equipment we could charge less, but there is no way that I would dry 8/4 ash for .35 per board foot.  Quite frankly I wouldnt even dry it for $1.35 per bd ft!  My energy costs are more than that - not to mention labor time and ROI on the kiln.
A lot of our FF members work in the large volume commercial prouduction industry, where the economies of scale are much better than us little guys.  So for a large volume facility those prices are probably high, but not for most of us.
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