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Author Topic: New LT15 blade rising during cut?  (Read 2090 times)

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Offline Leigh Family Farm

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New LT15 blade rising during cut?
« on: August 22, 2018, 05:05:50 PM »
A co-worker of mine just bought a brand new LT15 and sawed their very first log over the weekend. As he explained it to me, the saw blade rose about 1/8 - 1/4" during the cut. As the blade left the log, it would drop back down to the original cut depth but the saw head never moved. He had the blade tension to specifications (in the green) and he tried with more tension (orange/red). Still had the same problem. Any ideas as to the cause of the problem? 

The log was a 18-20" 5 ft. ash that was freshly cut down the weeks prior. 
There are no problems; only solutions we haven't found yet.

Offline WDH

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Re: New LT15 blade rising during cut?
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2018, 08:06:41 PM »
Sounds like the blade is dull, maybe from hitting something in the log like rocks in the bark, dirt, or metal.  Try a new blade and see how that cuts. 
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Offline bandmiller2

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Re: New LT15 blade rising during cut?
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2018, 09:07:27 PM »
Sounds like the band is riding too far back on the belted wheels and its pressing the set out on the inside teeth. Frank C. 
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Offline Brad_bb

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Re: New LT15 blade rising during cut?
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2018, 09:31:33 PM »
Possibilities:
Dull band or incorrect set (rare)
Feeding too fast.  Feed so that the RPM's of the engine don't drop significantly
Band tension setting not correct.  See Manual for correct setting.
Drive belt tension.  Get the tension checking tool from Woodmizer and follow the procedure with the tool.  It's not hard, you need to do this every 50 hours on the mill anyway.

On a side note, install and hour meter on your mill.  I think it's ridiculous that Woodmizer specs all the maintenance in hours yet do not have an hour meter on the mill!  They are pretty simple to install.  If you have the 18hp Kohler gas engine, there may be a yellow wire with female spade terminal that you can plug the +side of the hour meter into.  My 2014 has this and it's very convenient ignition on power. You will have to make a bracket to mount the hour meter.  I bought one on ebay. 


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Offline firefighter ontheside

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Re: New LT15 blade rising during cut?
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2018, 09:39:59 PM »
Is the blade set parallel to the bed?  
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Offline Lawg Dawg

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Re: New LT15 blade rising during cut?
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2018, 10:05:58 PM »
Probably dull blade, check that first
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Offline Slingshot

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Re: New LT15 blade rising during cut?
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2018, 11:55:13 PM »
Biggest (and maybe the only) problem is probably the ash log. They are good for that.

Offline Banjo picker

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Re: New LT15 blade rising during cut?
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2018, 06:33:55 AM »
With out being there to see whats going on, I'll throw my lot in with Slingshot.  Not too long after I got my mill an ash log showed up to be cut.  It just would not turn out a usable product.  I finally took it off the mill and put it out by the fence and it layed there till it rotted.  Only log I ever gave up on. Banjo
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Offline WDH

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Re: New LT15 blade rising during cut?
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2018, 07:22:25 AM »
I have done that with hickory.  Just could not saw it flat no matter what. 
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Offline ljmathias

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Re: New LT15 blade rising during cut?
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2018, 08:48:14 AM »
Yeah, good old Southern hickory. One just died on the property for no apparent reason (God knows but I sure don't) so it behooves me to cut it down and do something with it. Too hard to split for firewood so I guess I'll try quarter sawing it. Should be fascinating seeing how it twists and turns. Or maybe I'll let it dry for a while (like maybe a couple of years) so it's all locked in place and then cut it... after it's turned hard as nails and dulls the blade after the first few inches. Yeah, good old hickory, put here by the Lord to teach us patience and appreciation of what we can't change.

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Offline sawmilljoe

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Re: New LT15 blade rising during cut?
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2018, 08:46:34 PM »
I had for yesterday that when I made the last cut to square it up it bowed 6 inches and made a 1/8 twist. First time I gave up on a log. Some just cant be sawed

Joe

Offline dgdrls

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Re: New LT15 blade rising during cut?
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2018, 09:08:56 PM »
what are the specs on the band?
hook angle, set, tooth spacing??

could be the log, but fresh cut it should saw better than that.

D

Offline ladylake

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Re: New LT15 blade rising during cut?
« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2018, 04:49:21 AM »
what are the specs on the band?
hook angle, set, tooth spacing??

could be the log, but fresh cut it should saw better than that.

D
 
 Also what brand, I've run across a couple that wouldn't even cut basswood straight.  Steve
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Offline Leigh Family Farm

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Re: New LT15 blade rising during cut?
« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2018, 01:11:30 PM »
Sorry for the delay. Been a busy week. 

Brand new blade that came with the brand new mill. I think Vortex or something. My friend mentioned its the general blade that the dealer gave him when he bought it. 

I will pass on the characteristics of ash/hickory and the blade positioning on the wheels. He hsould be going back up to VT this weekend as thats where the saw is. I will update next week.  
There are no problems; only solutions we haven't found yet.

Offline Stephen1

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Re: New LT15 blade rising during cut?
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2018, 02:02:00 PM »
I have to use a 9 degree blade for ash or sugar maple. I would use a 4degree, but WM tells ne the 24 onan does not have the power to pull that blade.
Most ash that I am sawing  is dead and dry and makes it worse. I bet that not only did the blade drop after leaving the log but that there was waves in the board and cant left on the mill.
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Offline SawyerTed

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Re: New LT15 blade rising during cut?
« Reply #15 on: August 29, 2018, 04:35:08 PM »
Stephen, I have 25 hp Kohler on my mill.  I've used 4 degree and 7 degree turbo blades with very good results. The only blades I used for about the first 15 thousand board feet I sawed were 4 degree.  I started trying the Turbo 7s a few weeks ago, I'm switching to them as I replace blades.

It's just a WAG but the blade rising and diving in the cut makes me suspect cutting speed is the culprit.  Too fast and waves and diving/rising start.  Same for a dull blade.  Put the two together and poor cuts are inevitable. 
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Offline Peter Drouin

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Re: New LT15 blade rising during cut?
« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2018, 08:44:52 PM »
Cutting to slow will dull the blade in one cut too.

Offline Jeff

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Re: New LT15 blade rising during cut?
« Reply #17 on: August 29, 2018, 09:23:32 PM »
Dull band or incorrect set (rare)
 

Rare?
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Re: New LT15 blade rising during cut?
« Reply #18 on: August 29, 2018, 09:45:15 PM »
Over the years I have gotten boxes of new blades that I had to set and sharpen before I could use them.

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Re: New LT15 blade rising during cut?
« Reply #19 on: August 29, 2018, 10:16:52 PM »
Rare that the set is incorrect out of the box.  Has been rare for me.
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Re: New LT15 blade rising during cut?
« Reply #20 on: August 29, 2018, 10:30:32 PM »
But it would not be rare for a new owner to dull a new blade putting it on and not even know it.
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Offline gmmills

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Re: New LT15 blade rising during cut?
« Reply #21 on: August 29, 2018, 11:41:38 PM »


Brand new blade that came with the brand new mill. I think Vortex or something. My friend mentioned its the general blade that the dealer gave him when he bought it.

  
   That info is quite relevant. If the blade is a Vortex it has a 10 deg hook angle. If he was given what WM classifies as a general purpose blade it is also a 10 deg blade. The issues he is having are more than likely not an issue with the mill itself, but directly related to the wrong blade for the species of wood being cut. A  10 deg blade is too aggressive to cut Ash in a low HP situation. Tell him to purchase some 4 deg blades. bet his cut quality issues will more than likely be resolved.

  Stephen1, The info you were given in regards to using 4 deg blades with your Onan is way off. With the dead dry ash you are cutting it will perform better than the 9 deg blades.  I am of the opinion that any mill with low hp engine should be using a 4 deg blade as a general purpose blade. Get yourself some 4 deg blades to try.  
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Offline MartyParsons

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Re: New LT15 blade rising during cut?
« Reply #22 on: August 30, 2018, 05:37:39 AM »
Hello!
The blade that comes with a new mill would be 10 degree .045 1 1/4"
Ash saws different.

Got a call few years back.   Wife doing a demo with a Super.
 It will not cut.
My response.
What kind of wood? Ash
  Are you using water on the blade?   No
Are you sawing slow?   Yes
Is there sawdust between the cuts? Does it look like pancake flour on the cant when you remove the board you just cut?   Yes.

Increase blade lube.
Increase feed rate way more than you are comfortable with!

10 min later.
Text  It worked!

Hope this helps!
Marty
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Offline esteadle

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Re: New LT15 blade rising during cut?
« Reply #23 on: August 30, 2018, 06:55:40 PM »
So.... I think your friend got a 'dull' band for free from the dealer. 

I'd like to suggest something... take a magnifying glass, and get outside in broad daylight and take a good look at the edges of the teeth of the blade. Start at the weld, and go around and look at the teeth and see if they reflect any light back at you when you look at the edge. 

A sharp tooth will have a nice clean edge and won't reflect any light back at you. So it will appear dark. A dull blade will have been rounded over at the edges and will reflect light back to your eye, almost no matter what angle you look at it. Move your head from side to side and up and down as you look at the tips and see if you can tell if they are rounded over and dull. 


I looked at WMs site to see how the Vortex blade is positioned in the marketplace. Here's what it says: 

Wood-Mizer's Vortex dust removal blade will clear the dust from your cut like no other blade on the market. This extremely unique profile has generated extraordinary results in high production pallet factory tests. Patent pending and trademarked for its revolutionary design and results, this blade's ability to leave only a trace amount of sawdust will leave you spinning and forever change your expectations of what is an acceptable amount of sawdust from a dust removal blade.


Did the Ash log your friend was sawing have sawdust left on the boards? It should not have. If it did... well... maybe it wasn't a Vortex blade. Or, maybe it wasn't set properly ('set' on a blade has a large influence on how much sawdust is left on the boards). 

Another question I would ask you and your friend is how dirty was the log? Was there mud on the bark? Or dirt, or stones? Those will dull a blade in a matter of minutes as the mud grinds between the edge of the teeth and the wood it's trying to cut. 

One comment about Ash. I see from your profile that you're in PA, on the opposite side of the state from me. The Ash we get in PA is white ash, which is not much harder than cherry, and does not contain much mineral content. So it should not dull the blades you have that quickly (unless the logs are dirty). You should be able to saw a couple hundred board feet of ash without having to change your blades. A 5' long 23" diameter log is maybe 50-60 board feet. you should be able to saw 10 of those before your blade dulls. So something else seems to be the issue here. 

As everyone else has also suggested, I'd try a brand new blade, right out of the box and see what happens. 

Best of luck! 

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Re: New LT15 blade rising during cut?
« Reply #24 on: August 30, 2018, 09:45:40 PM »
I assumed the band was a 4 band.  The OP has not specified what degree band it is.  My LT15 with 19hp gas Kohler engine will only cut hardwood with 4 bands.  I've tried 7 and 9 and always had wavy issues.  Some on here told me my mill doesn't have the HP for the higher degree bands.  I called woodmizer and the salesman confirmed that.  He told me I should only be running 4 on my mill with hardwood -Ash, Cherry, Walnut, Oak, Osage.
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Offline JB Griffin

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Re: New LT15 blade rising during cut?
« Reply #25 on: September 01, 2018, 01:50:24 AM »
4deg blades is what you need, forget what salesman tell you. Most don't know what you really need, but there are exceptions. (Not pickin on any brand or company, they ALL do this)

Do you ask the car salesman what tires to put on the car you just bought?
Or the insurance salesman how much insurance you need on that car?
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Offline Leigh Family Farm

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Re: New LT15 blade rising during cut?
« Reply #26 on: September 10, 2018, 05:16:08 PM »
Thank you everyone for the replies. I will pass on that he might be moving too fast through the cut, add more lube/water, and check to see if the blade is dull. I am out of the office for two weeks so I will get back to you all week after next.  
There are no problems; only solutions we haven't found yet.


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