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Author Topic: 1950's Circle Mill Trouble Shooting  (Read 5845 times)

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Offline bandmiller2

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Re: 1950's Circle Mill Trouble Shooting
« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2018, 08:30:52 PM »
Jemmy, your doing the right thing going slow and asking questions. Being a sawyer on a circular mill is like learning to ride a bicycle, you just have to do it, a toss or two are to be expected. It seems strange that such large heavy machinery requires such exact adjustment. Really check your lead and be sure no slivers of wood or bark rub the saw plate and heat it. Learn to file straight, best to copy the profile of a new bit. I'm sure their is science involved but handset mill are more of a seat of your pants operation that will become second nature with practice. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Offline jemmy

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Re: 1950's Circle Mill Trouble Shooting
« Reply #21 on: October 22, 2018, 09:28:13 PM »
SUCCESS! hahaha, got everything set up and went for it. The pins seemed to be in good condition and went into the saw in a somewhat loose fashion but once the nut was spun on tightened there seemed to be a solid connection. First cut is a very little piece that I'm going to put on a shelf, didnt figure out the radiator yet, just kept filling it with water then drained it at the end of the day. Gonna get some fittings tomorrow to hopefully solve the issue. Got the chrome spray paint for the PTO to use in conjunction with the laser tachometer, and a game plan for the throttle, thank you all for the help! Got a lot of tweaking, and little punch list things to do/monitor, feels like I just met my first child haha, hes got a little attitude, but seems to be working pretty good. 






 

 
Plan for the worst, hope for the best, and take what comes with a grin. - Grandpa Chuck

Offline jemmy

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Re: 1950's Circle Mill Trouble Shooting
« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2018, 09:46:11 PM »
OKKKK, so I was attempting to cut up some 4x6s for the track extensions for the sawmill and lost some teeth. When I was cutting my RPMs dropped a few times, I didn't stall the motor, but it did throw the blade into a wobble. After a couple of cuts I noticed I was missing teeth, so I shut the mill down to inspect. What I saw was 2 teeth and their inserts entirely missing and 1 tooth was sheared off  :'( ... to make matters worse I noticed was what looked like hair line fractures in the blade that start in the center and stretch outward like sun-rays (picture below). Now when I bought this mill, the previous owner was not using this blade, something should have triggered my brain then. I have a 56" blade that I believe is in good condition. My question is, did I do this to this blade by having the RPMs drop? Or were these cracks probably there before I started cutting, and I couldn't see them until I started cutting and the cracks re-surfaced. If I did do this to my blade, I do not wish to do the same thing to the 56" blade. And on a separate note, do you NEED the guide pins to run the saw? Or are they there just to insure a straight cut through variable conditions? (like knots and what not) I only cut about 30 bdft before these issues arose. 

 
Plan for the worst, hope for the best, and take what comes with a grin. - Grandpa Chuck

Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: 1950's Circle Mill Trouble Shooting
« Reply #23 on: December 01, 2018, 11:33:01 AM »
Looks to me like you cleaned the surface rust off the saw when you made a few passes.  Judging from the cracks, I am surprised it stood at all.  There is rust in the cracks, so, it isn't something that you did.  

As for missing teeth, I've done that on numerous occasions.  There were holes in the roof to prove it.  It comes from the shanks being too loose in the sockets.  Sockets can get stretched over time.  You would need an oversized shank to correct it, or you could stretch it by peening the inside of the shank.  I have also tapped on the shoulder of the saw to put it back into place as a fix.  

Do you need guide pins?   You won't be able to control your saw and you will saw into something that will ruin your saw, like a headblock or the like.  Those will rip shoulders off the saw.  There's a lot of things that can pull your saw off line.  They include dull teeth, a chipped tooth, the grain of the log, knots, nails, insulators and a multitude of other things.  Your saw will get hot when it goes off line, and possibly bend.  Then you'll need to get it hammered.  

If nothing else, look at guide pins as an insurance policy.  
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Offline moodnacreek

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Re: 1950's Circle Mill Trouble Shooting
« Reply #24 on: December 01, 2018, 06:18:26 PM »
If everything was perfect that cracked saw wouldn't clean up unless you sawed watery wood but in this case it showed you what was there. That saw is scrap. Somebody ran that saw to destruction.

Offline Jeff

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Re: 1950's Circle Mill Trouble Shooting
« Reply #25 on: December 01, 2018, 08:58:03 PM »
Please don't run that saw anymore. Hang it on a wall somewhere or paint a sign on it.
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Offline jemmy

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Re: 1950's Circle Mill Trouble Shooting
« Reply #26 on: December 03, 2018, 01:28:17 AM »
Well I am very happy I shut things down when I did... When I saw those cracks I knew something was very wrong, and then I thought to myself, "I bet this thing is structurally unsound and might shred apart" So I gave a shout out to my guardian angel for not letting me die quite yet. Ive already got plans for this saw, it should make for a great sign out front!!!! Im still kinda quaking in my boots about that saw. I wasnt as concerned about the missing teeth, i figured that would happen on occasion. Those cracks are another deal though. I figure that saw is a pretty much a bomb waiting to go off... 
Plan for the worst, hope for the best, and take what comes with a grin. - Grandpa Chuck

Offline jemmy

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Re: 1950's Circle Mill Trouble Shooting
« Reply #27 on: December 03, 2018, 01:34:28 AM »
And that makes sense for the guide pins... I didnt really think about the saw getting pulled to the point of ruining or hitting the cart, but I see how it could easily do that! Gosh now that Im sawing I understand why people like bandsaws so much...  
Plan for the worst, hope for the best, and take what comes with a grin. - Grandpa Chuck

Offline thecfarm

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Re: 1950's Circle Mill Trouble Shooting
« Reply #28 on: December 03, 2018, 06:53:41 AM »
A very nice thread!!
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Offline Don P

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Re: 1950's Circle Mill Trouble Shooting
« Reply #29 on: December 03, 2018, 07:19:25 AM »
I've skimmed the carriage and the dogs, neither of which you ever want to get into so yes do keep your eyes open and thinking cap on at all times. It is not good to ever throw shanks but it will happen occasionally. Take your proposed blade to a sawdoc to be checked and tensioned, it sounds like the previous owner ran his gear hard. One thing to keep in mind is most, but certainly not all stuff thrown by the blade travels in the plane of the blade. Make a point of not being in that line, front or rear, any more than you have to be. I line up, look down that line if needed and then step back to pull the stick.
A laborer works with his hands
A craftsman uses his brain and his hands
An artist uses his brain, his hands, and his heart

Offline apm

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Re: 1950's Circle Mill Trouble Shooting
« Reply #30 on: December 03, 2018, 08:12:03 AM »
It looks like your saw collar is undersized, as well. Make sure it is the same diameter as the back one.

Greg
Timberking 1600 now

Offline DMcCoy

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Re: 1950's Circle Mill Trouble Shooting
« Reply #31 on: December 03, 2018, 08:25:38 AM »
JC!  That blade gives me the shivers. 

Your 56" saw- those look like 5/16" 4 1/2 8/9 bits.  I would check for stamp marks on your shanks and see if they are still available before spending too much on getting your saw reconditioned.

Yes keep your head out of the saw plane of rotation.  I have both circle mill and bandsaw.  The circle mill will flat out saw faster but has more waste.  It also has the sound and scratch marks you just can't beat.

Offline Jeff

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Re: 1950's Circle Mill Trouble Shooting
« Reply #32 on: December 03, 2018, 09:28:45 AM »
I cant imagine ever sawing without guide pins. Even with them, things can get hairy.

Duck and run! A circle sawyer initiation. in Sawmills and Milling

Just call me the midget doctor.
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Offline jemmy

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Re: 1950's Circle Mill Trouble Shooting
« Reply #33 on: December 03, 2018, 05:37:34 PM »
Jeff, that is some scary stuff. Where can I go to have my blade looked at? I don't think my local fab shop will really know what to do :) . I am in the Toledo area, I'm not apposed to driving a great deal to have quality work done. I have a different "good" blade that I should take and have looked at, I assume, before sawing with it, especially after this fiasco.  Btw Jeff the quote on your profile couldn't be more applicable in this thread  ;)
Plan for the worst, hope for the best, and take what comes with a grin. - Grandpa Chuck

Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: 1950's Circle Mill Trouble Shooting
« Reply #34 on: December 04, 2018, 05:17:09 AM »
Get in touch with one of the local circle mills and find out who they have hammer their saws.  In our area, we had a local saw shop stop by once a month.  They sold mill supplies like files, teeth, etc, and they would pick up saws for hammering.  They would deliver in the next month.  But, if I needed something done right away, I could take the saw to their shop and wait on it.  If you get to talk to a saw doc, you'll learn quite a bit.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Offline jemmy

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Re: 1950's Circle Mill Trouble Shooting
« Reply #35 on: February 03, 2019, 04:39:07 PM »
Ok so I swapped out blades this week and started the mill up to start figuring out this archaic piece of machinery. I am still struggling to find the appropriate rim speed. I had a few moments that gave me legit anxiety, like a positive feed back loop in my brain making me a little timid. I was bring the saw up to speed and the blade appeared to wobble to a GREAT degree for about a quarter second and made a bit of noise. I powered it down immediately. Took a few deep breaths and then started the motor back up. I slowly brought the blade up to speed, watching it want to stand up when I was full throttle, but the top end of that gear was not getting it done, so i shifted it into second and it finally stood up. Once the blade was standing I brought the cart down the line. When the wood made contact with the blade it lost significant RPMs. So I backed it out and kept jacking the RPM's up. But each time it entered the wood I would lose RPM's. While the motor was wound up the blade looked like it was traveling too quick. Or the blade needs rehammered, because it looked "wavy" it wasnt wobbling, but it looked bowed in a goofy fashion. Which freaked me out so I powered it down and now I am sitting in front of my computer typing. I cant keep my RPM's low because the motor keeps giving each time I enter the wood. But I dont know if I am too fast or the blade needs attention. Its a catch 22, I cant run it too fast due to blade, but the motor needs to be wound up to keep the appropriate RPMs. I need this mill to run SOON I have a few projects that are starting to bark down my door. I couldnt imagine buying 500$ of lumber when I have spent so much time and energy getting this thing to this point. It is 95% there, just need to cut 8 4x6s to lay out the track extensions, and build my log stage. Then the mill is "complete". Is there anyone that does mill consulting? I'm going to reach out to the previous owner and see if he can come down and help me trouble shoot. And does anyone know of any saw docs near Toledo? I imagine I would look into Michigan for such a service. Another note, my cable system keep "loosening" significantly after 2 passes. I have no idea why that is happening, but my theory is that the cable keeps lengthening each time it is put under stress. But I have taken multiple inches out of it multiple times.
Plan for the worst, hope for the best, and take what comes with a grin. - Grandpa Chuck

Offline dgdrls

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Re: 1950's Circle Mill Trouble Shooting
« Reply #36 on: February 03, 2019, 06:16:47 PM »
jemmy,

you have to know your engine speed and arbor speed
otherwise your guessing and the saw will never perform well

D

Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: 1950's Circle Mill Trouble Shooting
« Reply #37 on: February 03, 2019, 07:15:55 PM »
Get yourself a digital tach and stop guessing. $10-20 on Ebay.  You'll probably find one local.

Make sure you're not getting belt slippage to the mandrel.  

After you have a problem, check your saw too see where it is hot.  If there isn't much heat, then it isn't the saw.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Offline Woodpecker52

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Re: 1950's Circle Mill Trouble Shooting
« Reply #38 on: February 03, 2019, 08:53:37 PM »
Oh the joys of a circle mill!
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Offline jemmy

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Re: 1950's Circle Mill Trouble Shooting
« Reply #39 on: February 04, 2019, 01:30:21 AM »
Well I know I need to some leveling, but even so I dont know whats going on with the motor, it seems like its wanting to die. Could the blade not standing up correcting cause the blade to cut so bad that it robs RPMs? Thats one theory I have. I'm going to do the nut check and start reading some manuals tonight, and start on a lot of knick nacky projects. It's very close to being able to cut. Just needs a trained eye and an after noon. I have a RPM laser gauge but its inconsistent but even then the RPMs falling is weird. And the cable system, might need replaced, but how much slack can I take out right? haha
Plan for the worst, hope for the best, and take what comes with a grin. - Grandpa Chuck


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