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Author Topic: Can I use .50 gauge chain on .58 gauge drive sprocket  (Read 3010 times)

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Offline mike_belben

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Re: Can I use .50 gauge chain on .58 gauge drive sprocket
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2018, 12:20:03 PM »
I run used motor oil with the oiler maxed.  It is possible that is the cause here if its increased wear, but no money is no money so i do what i have to and keep workin.
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Offline John Mc

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Re: Can I use .50 gauge chain on .58 gauge drive sprocket
« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2018, 12:46:02 PM »
rry a couple dozen chains out with me in the morning. I will touch a chain up once with a file then it goes in the sharpening bucket for the grinder. Ive saw some guys who NEVER take a chain off, they just keep filing away with these stupid looking filing contraptions that remind me of the garbage that some guys buy to fix their golf swing...LOL. The bar never gets maintained this way, the chain groove never gets cleaned out, sprocket never cleaned out, and the holes in the bar never get unplugged. That shortens up everything's life.
 

Believe it or not, some of us who prefer hand sharpening on the saw to using a grinder still do manage to maintain our bars, clean the groove & sprocket, and assure that the oil keeps flowing. We even manage to flip our bars from time to time.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Can I use .50 gauge chain on .58 gauge drive sprocket
« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2018, 01:34:45 PM »
Welp, it was wear.  Not surprising i guess.  It was a $50 out the door bar and chain combo from the lawnmower/saw shop at the flea market. All the poor folks around me get their junk exclusively from there because he is hands down the cheapest.  This is the same bar that wouldnt hold a sprocket tip, it wobbles all over.  

I took it over there to try a 058 chain, which he didnt have.  Showed him the wear and wobble and he basically said "thats what ya get for buying a cheap bar."

I agree with him.  Me not goin back there again is what he gets for selling people trash. Serves us both right i suppose.  I will make a rail closer and loctite the sprocket tip in.  


Are "forestor" bars junk too?   
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Offline lxskllr

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Re: Can I use .50 gauge chain on .58 gauge drive sprocket
« Reply #23 on: September 16, 2018, 01:44:44 PM »


Are "forestor" bars junk too?  
A quick read on the web says they're pretty good for the money. Nothing amazing, not a fantastic deal, but you get a good value for your $
My personal thoughts are a bar/chain are your main interface with the wood, and paying a bit extra for quality is money well spent. You can afford what you can afford, but If I had the option, I'd rather shave dollars somewhere else.

Online Hilltop366

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Re: Can I use .50 gauge chain on .58 gauge drive sprocket
« Reply #24 on: September 16, 2018, 02:19:12 PM »
I run used motor oil with the oiler maxed.  It is possible that is the cause here if its increased wear, but no money is no money so i do what i have to and keep workin.
My personal thought is used motor oil is too thin to give enough lube to a chain and I suspect the extra grime in the oil won't help either but better than nothing.

Another thing that wears out a bar way faster than it should is a dull chain, think about how many more times a chain has to go around to cut the same piece of wood along with the extra pressure on the bar a person with a dull chain will apply creating lots of extra heat, now add in someone that puts their hand on the top handle off to the left causing more pressure on one side more than the other, this causes the saw to cut to the right and wear the left side of the rail as well as the drive links and widening out the grove.

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Can I use .50 gauge chain on .58 gauge drive sprocket
« Reply #25 on: September 16, 2018, 03:29:39 PM »
I do filter the oil through a coffee strainer but i know, its not ideal and is probably a hodgepodge of ATF and whatever else.  

Havent really had trouble with the rails or heel which was surprising.  No sparks.  But the heat of binding up dulled cutters very fast.  I spent all my time filing instead of cutting. 

Well its about fall and i really need all my firewood cut asap so i finally put a 16" stihl bar and bumper link chain on my 372.  Even dull that thing cut sooo much better.  

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Offline sawguy21

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Re: Can I use .50 gauge chain on .58 gauge drive sprocket
« Reply #26 on: September 16, 2018, 04:11:53 PM »
I have seen crankcase drainings used as bar oil, they went through oil pumps, bars and chains fairly quickly.. They might as well have run snake oil for all the good it did them. Years repairing saws taught me to use the lubricant designed for the job
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Offline labradorguy

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Re: Can I use .50 gauge chain on .58 gauge drive sprocket
« Reply #27 on: September 16, 2018, 08:54:55 PM »
rry a couple dozen chains out with me in the morning. I will touch a chain up once with a file then it goes in the sharpening bucket for the grinder. Ive saw some guys who NEVER take a chain off, they just keep filing away with these stupid looking filing contraptions that remind me of the garbage that some guys buy to fix their golf swing...LOL. The bar never gets maintained this way, the chain groove never gets cleaned out, sprocket never cleaned out, and the holes in the bar never get unplugged. That shortens up everything's life.


Believe it or not, some of us who prefer hand sharpening on the saw to using a grinder still do manage to maintain our bars, clean the groove & sprocket, and assure that the oil keeps flowing. We even manage to flip our bars from time to time.
I guess I struck a nerve. Sorry, nothing personal and not referring to anyone here by any means. I figure anyone who is into it enough to be on a forum like this is smart enough to take the bar off now and then. I was referring to people I have actually witnessed live and in person spending the whole day in the woods and never one time take a chain off. They carry 10 pounds of filing contraptions on them and they spend more of their day sitting on a stump fiddling around than they spend cutting. All their effort is worthless though because at the end of the day, their chain is toast.
I prefer a file to a grinder too but it comes down to production for me. I hit them once with the file in the woods, then follow that up with a very light grind that evening, I pour as much tacky oil to them as I can and hammer down. For me, keeping that full chisel pointy and the rakers right extends bar life more than just about anything but I still file the bars every few days. That seems to be the best compromise between production and longevity. For me it's about putting logs on the trailers so 100% hand filing is not an option, but everyone has different priorities....
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Offline teakwood

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Re: Can I use .50 gauge chain on .58 gauge drive sprocket
« Reply #28 on: September 17, 2018, 09:03:16 AM »
I run used motor oil with the oiler maxed.  It is possible that is the cause here if its increased wear, but no money is no money so i do what i have to and keep workin.
of course chain oil would be best but you use what you have. I use the old hyd oil from the oilchange of my big excavator. that is on barrel of free chain oil or at least 500$ i don't have to spend 
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Offline ButchC

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Re: Can I use .50 gauge chain on .58 gauge drive sprocket
« Reply #29 on: September 17, 2018, 09:57:26 AM »

I guess I struck a nerve. I was referring to people I have actually witnessed live and in person spending the whole day in the woods and never one time take a chain off. They carry 10 pounds of filing contraptions on them and they spend more of their day sitting on a stump fiddling around than they spend cutting. All their effort is worthless though because at the end of the day, their chain is toast.
Hmmm, vastly different bunch of people than I have ever cut with, LOL  We gather each year to cut wood for the ministry and I never cease to be amazed by all the dull chains and no files or sharpening equipment of any kind to be seen,,, other than mine. They bring a saw with dull chain installed, a can of stale fuel and something oily looking to put in the bar oil hole, maybe another dull chain or two.  Been told more than once that I was wasting my time touching up a chain after fueling, once by a fellow who had just spent a good 10  minutes getting through a 24" log with a 70CCsaw.
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Offline lxskllr

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Re: Can I use .50 gauge chain on .58 gauge drive sprocket
« Reply #30 on: September 17, 2018, 10:08:39 AM »
I use one chain at a time, and sharpen as necessary. It gets a new chain when the old one has a sharpen or two left on it, then retired for trash duty. Bar gets flipped whenever the cover comes off. Might be once a day, might be a couple months.

Offline John Mc

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Re: Can I use .50 gauge chain on .58 gauge drive sprocket
« Reply #31 on: September 17, 2018, 10:52:52 AM »
Hmmm, vastly different bunch of people than I have ever cut with, LOL  We gather each year to cut wood for the ministry and I never cease to be amazed by all the dull chains and no files or sharpening equipment of any kind to be seen,,, other than mine. They bring a saw with dull chain installed, a can of stale fuel and something oily looking to put in the bar oil hole, maybe another dull chain or two.  Been told more than once that I was wasting my time touching up a chain after fueling, once by a fellow who had just spent a good 10  minutes getting through a 24" log with a 70CCsaw.
I run into those guys all the time. If I can convince them to take the time, I give them a lesson in sharpening on the spot. Usually, I have them make a cut with their dull chain first, then we sharpen and cut again. Often, that makes a believer of them. Since they are unlikely to take the time to learn to sharpen freehand (and I'm not one of those who has taken the time to get "race chain quality" when freehanding a chain anyway), I let them use one of my guides. A good number of these folks end up asking where they can get the files and guides. I take that as a good sign.
My other method of gaining a convert: let them cut with their crappy chain, then create some reason for them to use my saw (oh, you ran out of gas. Why don;t yu just finish up with my saw). When I get the comment "that's a nice saw", my response is "it's a nicely sharpened chain. The saw is actually [10 / 20] cc smaller than yours." Then offer to show them how to make theirs cut better.

Since I'm cutting for personal use, to help out a friend, or at a community firewood donation work day, I can take the time to do things like that. (If I were trying to make a living at this, I'd go broke.)
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Can I use .50 gauge chain on .58 gauge drive sprocket
« Reply #32 on: September 17, 2018, 11:52:40 AM »
My neighbor is a buddy of mine, and i sharpen his chains. The only time the harbor freight grinder ever comes out is to knock off the 1/16th of an inch rounded off nose of his cutters.  He thinks its a rocksaw.  I wonder how the wood he cuts doesnt catch fire while he is sawing.


My dad is one for having a full inch of chain hanging off the bottom.  Dad its a saw, not a hay elevator.  

Yes, i use motor oil now that im in the poorhouse, but it could be worse
;D
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Offline ButchC

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Re: Can I use .50 gauge chain on .58 gauge drive sprocket
« Reply #33 on: September 17, 2018, 01:23:45 PM »

I run into those guys all the time. If I can convince them to take the time, I give them a lesson in sharpening on the spot. Usually, I have them make a cut with their dull chain first, then we sharpen and cut again. A good number of these folks end up asking where they can get the files and guides. I take that as a good sign.
My other method of gaining a convert: let them cut with their crappy chain, then create some reason for them to use my saw (oh, you ran out of gas. Why don;t yu just finish up with my saw). When I get the comment "that's a nice saw", my response is "it's a nicely sharpened chain. The saw is actually [10 / 20] cc smaller than yours." Then offer to show them how to make theirs cut better.

Been there, done that but there is that entertainment value dont ya know? We show off just a smidgen ;D. I usually take the 660 with 20" bar and a half filed back RS chain with the rackers filed at .030. hee hee hee.  All most of them know is bar length. Heard many times  Hey! Your 20" saws cuts 10 times faster than mine what gives??? LOL  All in fun, at the end of the day I will show anyone who is interested enough to ask how to make their 290 cut fast enough to keep 2-3  people busy splitting and stacking.
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Online HolmenTree

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Re: Can I use .50 gauge chain on .58 gauge drive sprocket
« Reply #34 on: September 17, 2018, 04:42:36 PM »
Just finishing up the first year of my sideline business of chain saw sharpening and repair.  
Quite interesting of all the weekender chains I'm sharpening. Nothing yet bigger then 16" loops .325 and smaller.
Some customers bring to me 4 or 6 loops of .043 mini chain and their more then happy to pay $10 plus tax for me to file them.
Stuff takes 5 minutes with the 5/32" file. I almost feel guilty.  :D
But in this small city there's only one dealer and a hardware store abd they charge $35 for these little loops of chain.

Then some give up trying to sharpen their chain wirh a dremil. Takes me a bit to get past that case hardening, but what's not there and I can't put back on.....I just use a bigger file :)
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Offline lxskllr

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Re: Can I use .50 gauge chain on .58 gauge drive sprocket
« Reply #35 on: September 17, 2018, 05:10:16 PM »
I think my buddy was paying $13 a pop to have his chain sharpened at the Stihl dealer. At the time, I didn't know a thing about saws, and thought that price was appalling.  I now know a good bit more about saws, and I still think that price is appalling. On top of that, they took off a lot of the teeth to get it sharp, and my friend didn't abuse his chains. They were simply dull, not rocked or anything. That was when he got a guide system, and got me to try sharpening the chain. I didn't do a great job, but it was ok. Made some mistakes too; mainly backdragging the file. It was a good learning experience, and I found I dislike using guides. I now do it free hand, and I'm sure I'm not up there with the best, but I do a pretty good job. I could sell my services, and not feel like I was taking advantage of people. It wouldn't be $13 though. Probably closer to $8. Even that's high imo, but for every chain that's simply dull and easy to do, you probably get ten that looked like they were dragged behind a truck, and take forever. Gotta cover for those  :^D

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Re: Can I use .50 gauge chain on .58 gauge drive sprocket
« Reply #36 on: September 17, 2018, 06:44:43 PM »
Actually for rocked out chains I'm charging $15 plus 13% taxes.

  But $15 Canadian dollar is
 $11.50 U S.D :D
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Online Hilltop366

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Re: Can I use .50 gauge chain on .58 gauge drive sprocket
« Reply #37 on: September 17, 2018, 07:01:40 PM »
I don't blame you for charging $15 for sharpening a rocked chain, its a lot of work.

Do you sell chain as well?

I must be getting a good deal on chain from my friends shop, a new one is not much different in price than that.

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Can I use .50 gauge chain on .58 gauge drive sprocket
« Reply #38 on: September 17, 2018, 07:38:34 PM »
Well, some good news.  I made a bar rail closer today and just as i was about to give up on it.. The last tweak got it to start working.  I closed the groove up to a snug fit and dressed the until the chain would pass.  Even with dull cutters and rails unsquared, it cut straight as an arrow.  
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Re: Can I use .50 gauge chain on .58 gauge drive sprocket
« Reply #39 on: September 17, 2018, 07:39:29 PM »
Hilltop366, I've been making and selling loops off rolls that I've bought over the years from auctions etc.
But it's going fast and I need to keep some for myself. :laugh:
The dealers here won't bother buying bulk chain by the roll, they just order loops already boxed from Stihl or Husqvarna.
I beat their prices by about $10 per loop.
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