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Author Topic: Choosing my first real bandsaw mill: Logosol B751 or Woodmizer LT15  (Read 2626 times)

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Offline rtetu

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***I am new, didn't realize where I was posting. I reposted in Sawmills. Sorry***

I hope to get some help quickly here from folks. I have previously owned three CSMs, and one very small BSM, a Ripsaw, which helped me build our two story, post and beam, log-fill home. I am turning 60, I like milling, and my spouse has allowed me to give in to my need for a larger CSM. Wood is expensive on our island, and many items,like spalted alder (I built our kitchen cabinets with it) cannot be found anywhere near.
At about the same price point, I have to choose between the well established Woodmizer LT15 or the new Logosol B751. I wanted to like the Woodland HM130, but curiously (this is not the experience of most people on this board, I know), I didn't have very helpful or friendly contacts with their people, while the Logosol and Woodmizer folks were as kind and patient as you can get. Looked at Timberking and Norwood, but shipping was more than $1000 over the other two.
I will be milling mostly cedar, some Pacific Silver Fir, some Doug, a little bit of alder. Wood is tough on our island: you often have to drill lumber before you can nail it. In fact, I screw a lot of what I use.
So, experts, I have lurked long enough: I am pulling the trigger this week, but I need last minute help top calm the jitters. Go with the well-known, two-posts, strong bed WM LT15, or the slick, modern, four post B751?
I love wood almost as much as my wife.

Offline YellowHammer

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Re: Choosing my first real CSM: Logosol B751 or Woodmizer LT15
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2018, 11:06:36 PM »
Seems like this should be put in the Sawmilling Section.  

I had an LT15, it was a workhorse, never had any trouble with it, and it cut very accurately.  I sold it for almost what I paid for it new.   
HobbyHardwoodAlabama.com

Offline rtetu

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Re: Choosing my first real CSM: Logosol B751 or Woodmizer LT15
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2018, 12:10:14 AM »
Thanks for the reply. It is a good endorsement, I just do not plan to resell, though. At my age, this is my last mill. I like being able to talk to someone fairly close; WM has a shop just east of Portland OR.
I love wood almost as much as my wife.

Offline Southside logger

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Re: Choosing my first real CSM: Logosol B751 or Woodmizer LT15
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2018, 12:36:01 AM »
Ok - so I am a skeptic by nature, good or bad it is what it is, and I will admit I hold the bar high for anything that I need to shell money out for, which is probably why I have come to where I do way too many things myself as I can be hard to please.  So enough with the self psychology.  What I am getting at is that I honestly can not say enough good about my customer service experiences with Woodmizer, both the dealer and the folks in Indy.  

The quality of my LT35 is exceptional, and yes I have had things wear out, but a phone call later and parts are on the way, usually getting here the next day if not two days at most.  Best example I can give you is when I had to replace brushes on the drive motor, it had 1800 hours on it and is rated for 1500.  My dealer -Marty- did not have the brushes on hand so he had Indy ship them to me, they arrived the next day and given my luck the fiberboard that holds the brushes in place was broken.  No way to tell if it was in transit or shipped that way.  I called Indy and told them about the problem - no questions asked, no photos needed, no return, they just shipped me a new set of brushes the same day.  

You can't beat that with a sticker, so I will remain loyal to them.  Oh - by the way I never needed a hydraulic mill, but bought my 35 knowing it would be way more than I ever would need, then I got a kiln - which I never needed - and an edger - Who would need that? - moved onto a moulder - and now I am in the market for a Super 70 Wide - this disease will progress so don't discount the idea of one day upgrading.  

Welcome to the Forum.   
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Offline WDH

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Re: Choosing my first real CSM: Logosol B751 or Woodmizer LT15
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2018, 08:22:50 AM »
I ran a LT15 for 14 years.  It is a great machine.  The powerfeed is well worth the $.  Well proven track record, no risks.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5640SU, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Offline rtetu

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Re: Choosing my first real CSM: Logosol B751 or Woodmizer LT15
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2018, 08:29:23 AM »
Thanks for the comments; you can't beat advice from people who have been there and done that. It seems I will have to go with the Woodmizer. I may even drive all the way to Portland and pick it up at their warehouse. 

Again, thanks for the time you spent responding.
I love wood almost as much as my wife.

Offline SawyerTed

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Re: Choosing my first real CSM: Logosol B751 or Woodmizer LT15
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2018, 08:32:45 AM »
+1 on Woodmizer.  Other companies may do equally well but would be hard pressed to do better with service and support.
Woodmizer LT35HD25, Kubota MX5100, IH McCormick Farmall 140, Granberg Alaskan Chainsaw Mill, Husqvarna 372XP, Husqvarna 455 Rancher

Offline Magicman

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Re: Choosing my first real CSM: Logosol B751 or Woodmizer LT15
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2018, 08:42:00 AM »
There is an incredible video on the LT15 Wood-Mizer page: LINK
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Offline nativewolf

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Re: Choosing my first real CSM: Logosol B751 or Woodmizer LT15
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2018, 08:53:43 AM »
I don't really own a mill but I subcontract a helluva lot of sawing on our harvest sites.  This is my take on it:

To recap:  you're 60, you like to mill, this is going to be a significant expense for you, WM has a somewhat close by office.

Break down into 3 categories: Milling, optionality, time

Most mills today seem to make square lumber if the owner/miller knows what he is doing.  I haven't heard bad things about logosol and I'd expect it to be both simple & slick (spent time in scandinavia in forestry).  WM, however, is a different level of sawmill market penetration and savvy.

I'd buy the machine that solves the downside issues.  WM has local and recognized excellent service.  WM preserves contingency in case you want to upgrade or just need $.  The WM brand will sell quickly, even in a down market.  I cannot emphasize the importance of keeping that option open.  Selling an unusual product in a down market can take a very very long time and you have fortified liquidity.  A WM is as close to a liquid asset as you can find in sawmills.  You are not a spring chicken (many of us aren't, not being a jerk just reminding you of our all too ephemeral time) and for me I have no patience waiting 3 weeks on an esoteric part.  Logosol could exit the market just as quickly as they came into it.  By liquidity I mean at some price point that LT15 is going to sell, no matter how bad the economy, it will sell quickly at the right price.  The logosol might be difficult to move even in a good market.  


What do you plan to do with your time and what about the future?  Fix machines or mill?  What if you love it and it makes you $ and you have a chance to do more?  Because in my limited experience the mill is going to break, things are going to wear out and you'll find more demand for milled lumber than you expect.  Milling is tough on equipment and I'm frankly surprised at how much time is spent of fixing and repairing little things (my contractors use a variety of saws from WM to Lucas Swing mills).  I regret the downtime more than anything else and so for me I would look for the solution that is easiest to fix and upkeep.  I passed on a Rottne forwarder for just this reason, no service within 1000 miles.  

At your age and given implied capital constraints and desire to mill I think the WM would be the clear winner in an evaluation.  My evaluation really has nothing to do with milling lumber though and everything to do with owning a mill. Just my $0.02 and worth less than the time spent reading. :)

Liking Walnut

Offline rtetu

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Re: Choosing my first real CSM: Logosol B751 or Woodmizer LT15
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2018, 09:51:25 AM »
*DanG! I hope you folks understand how grateful I am for all the help. My wife and I were leaning to Logosol because it is so slick, but your arguments are moving me to Woodmizer. Frankly, the main thing that bothers me, and it is so small that I feel stupid writing it, is that you need to engage the band with a lever tilting the motor on the Woodmizer, while the Logosol uses a HD centrifugal clutch. Having to reach over for that lever after every cut worries me that I will get lazy about it. That said, if I drive down to Oregon, a two-day affair for me because of ferries, I would save $1070 getting the Woodmizer over the Logosol mill 
I am a teacher during the day (and the evenings, and the weekends...) but I am also a volunteer firefighter and lieutenant for over 35 years. I use and have seen some pretty heavy equipment over the years, and the KISS principle is ingrained in me: people, including me, make mistakes when tired or ... That's why I needed your help in choosing something that will be safe for me as I age and for my wife (she was raised on a ranch, she is a tough cookie, she will mill too). 

Anyway, got up at 4:00 to read more about this. Got to get to school; I appreciate all comments, sorry I run off at the keyboard. Please know that I carefully read all replies. If anybody could tell me  more about the clutch vs blade engagement lever conundrum, I would appreciate it. 
I love wood almost as much as my wife.

Offline rjwoelk

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Re: Choosing my first real CSM: Logosol B751 or Woodmizer LT15
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2018, 10:12:35 AM »
Morning. I have the lt15.
No you do not have to reach over to ingage the motor. It is on your left side were your up and down control is and vertical scales are.. the band tension is on the right side.

I bought mine abought 4 years ago. The first thing i milled on it was the 6x20 ft platform that i mounted it on.
I jusy got it level and made my beams and lots of 2x for the top.
Then i cut a 30 birch logs .
Then my sons log cabin.
Along with all other goods we need.
The fellows over in troutdale( i think that is the dealer your talking about.)
Will give you some good pointers.
Pm me if you have questions. Bob
   
Lt15 palax wood processor,3020 JD 7120 CIH 36x72 hay shed for workshop coop tractor with a duetz for power plant

Offline nativewolf

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Re: Choosing my first real CSM: Logosol B751 or Woodmizer LT15
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2018, 10:20:01 AM »
Yeah if it is scandinavian it will be slick, my first international gig was in Finland.  That said if I was in your shoes I don't think it would even be a question.  

When the Scandinavian product is a market leader than it is a no brainer to me, like Ponsse...if I had the money I'd buy one.  If not the market leader...they can struggle due to scale issues.  Sometimes they struggle to find critical mass so they get reliant on international markets but fail to keep innovating (deadly combo). 
I'd take the savings and invest it in log moving.  To me that is the real elephant in the closet here.  Moving logs easily, moving lumber easily, moving waste material.  Keeping a neat yard, etc.  I'd invest as much in material handling as in the saw..just my $0.02 again.

Liking Walnut

Offline rtetu

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Re: Choosing my first real CSM: Logosol B751 or Woodmizer LT15
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2018, 11:00:26 AM »
Quick reply and thanks.
Nativewolf, I have a Kioti 25 with hydro tranny, 2475 backhoe and L130 loader for moving logs and whatever else. Not very big but most of my milling for my new shop and siding for the sheds will be 12 foot and under. Local logs rarely get over 26-28 inches, most of the cedar I will mill will be under 20". I moved some fir 20 foot 4 by 14 this summer with it (milled with my CSM) and I was fine. Do you think I will be okay with that setup?
At this point, my better half has switched her vote to the Woodmizer, after reading all the entries you folks kindly put in. I probably should jump on that sale they have right now. She thought I might want to wait for the Black Friday sale someone mentioned in another post, but I feel that the bird in the hand is the way to go.
I love wood almost as much as my wife.

Offline nativewolf

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Re: Choosing my first real CSM: Logosol B751 or Woodmizer LT15
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2018, 11:02:41 AM »
Quick reply and thanks.
Nativewolf, I have a Kioti 25 with hydro tranny, 2475 backhoe and L130 loader for moving logs and whatever else. Not very big but most of my milling for my new shop and siding for the sheds will be 12 foot and under. Local logs rarely get over 26-28 inches, most of the cedar I will mill will be under 20". I moved some fir 20 foot 4 by 14 this summer with it (milled with my CSM) and I was fine. Do you think I will be okay with that setup?
At this point, my better half has switched her vote to the Woodmizer, after reading all the entries you folks kindly put in. I probably should jump on that sale they have right now. She thought I might want to wait for the Black Friday sale someone mentioned in another post, but I feel that the bird in the hand is the way to go.
Sounds like that's a good setup for your sawmill.  Any saving could go to material handling tables (roller tables, etc) and building slab waste disposal stations 
Liking Walnut

Offline rtetu

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Re: Choosing my first real CSM: Logosol B751 or Woodmizer LT15
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2018, 11:30:57 AM »
We heat with wood, so the slabs are handy, and we need all the sawdust we can get for all the gardening, so I will build bins for that (with wood I mill ;D). Thanks for the hints.
I love wood almost as much as my wife.

Offline Magicman

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Re: Choosing my first real CSM: Logosol B751 or Woodmizer LT15
« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2018, 01:48:55 PM »
you need to engage the band with a lever tilting the motor on the Woodmizer, while the Logosol uses a HD centrifugal clutch
There is no weak link and absolutely nothing to wear out with the tilting motor.  It is tried and proven to be bulletproof reliable.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

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Offline rtetu

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Re: Choosing my first real CSM: Logosol B751 or Woodmizer LT15
« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2018, 07:25:12 PM »
So, at this time, I will be going with Woodmizer. I liked the folks at Bailey's but my main guy is on a business trip and I feel all you folks on the boards made things clear that Woodmizer should be my choice.

I found out that an ex-student has an LT15 on island; he is getting a circular mill as well but he won't sell his WM. He has the 25HP motor on it and says that a friend who has the smaller motor has problems with wavy cuts. The folks at WM said that out must be blade or speed related, not horsepower. I also asked about the Yanmar 10HP diesel and was told it was roughly equivalent to the 25HP.

I see on the forum that many people like the diesel and I am leaning that way, even though I don't expect to mill more than 50 hours a year. Winter is not that cold here, it rarely freezes and average temperatures in January are in the low 40s. My tractor is diesel. Beside the $800, any downside to the diesel? As you can tell, we are down to details before ordering.

Again many thanks. Also, you were right about WM customer service: I got almost immediate email responses. I think we are going to be happy.
I love wood almost as much as my wife.

Offline Southside logger

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Re: Choosing my first real CSM: Logosol B751 or Woodmizer LT15
« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2018, 08:05:47 PM »
Torque is your friend when running a sawmill and diesels are known for their torque. I see no downside to that move for you.

Says something about the other LT15 when the guy won't sell it.
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Offline WDH

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Re: Choosing my first real CSM: Logosol B751 or Woodmizer LT15
« Reply #18 on: September 12, 2018, 08:46:34 PM »
I say it again, the powerfeed is a real productivity enhancement :)
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5640SU, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

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Re: Choosing my first real CSM: Logosol B751 or Woodmizer LT15
« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2018, 09:01:17 PM »
I've only ever run woodmizer mills. I'm very impressed with woodmizer. You will be happy with it. I've had experience with the logosol molders and I wasn't impressed 
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