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Do you center the pith when you cut? Be honest :)

Started by OffGrid973, September 18, 2018, 06:34:38 PM

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OffGrid973

Interested to see who takes the time to make the best lumber possible, as this is not a fun process on the manual mills. I was reading Marty's thread on quarter sawing and got inspired to ask.
Your Fellow Woodworker,
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John S

Yes, unless the customer tells me that he/she does not care.  That is after explaining it to them.
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Magicman

"Always center the pith" to me is a much misused or misunderstood term.  So much depends upon where the pith is and which face that you intend to open.  I have seen logs with the pith on one edge on one log end and on the opposite edge on the opposite end.  Now whatcha gonna center?

Now back to sawing.  Probably 90%+ of my sawing is SYP for framing lumber which is much different from sawing hardwood for grade lumber.  Take this log as an example:


 
It is a very good and a very average SYP log that will become framing lumber.  You can't tell by the picture but the hump is on the left side and will be the last face that I open.  Also notice that the pith is centered top to bottom.  Had I rotated the log 90°and centered the pit, what would have become of the off center portion of the log that then would have been on the bottom?

Yes, in this instance I centered the pith to produce my targeted cut list and following this sequence I always do so, but the pith was not centered for the second and last face opening.
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Jeff

If you are sawing grade lumber in hardwoods, you are throwing away money if you are centering the pith.
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Chuck White

No!   We don't get very many "PERFECT" logs where the pith is in the center of the log!

To center the pith in these logs would create a large slab pile!  ;)
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rjwoelk

I start off by getting it centred to a degree but usually its off to a side by the time i am done. But that is for cants. I find it wonders alot in Birch. and Hemlock is usually off to one side like MMs pine.
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DPatton

As just about everyone has said it depends on the log and what your trying to get out of it. For most of the sawing I been doing lately (flat sawn boards) I don't worry about getting perfectly centered but rather focus on getting what I need out of the log. Now if I was sawing beams or producing quarter sawn material then centering the pith becomes more important and I center the pith according.
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longtime lurker

EXACTLY what our fearless leader said. The only time I cut pith centered is when I want boxed heart beams. Other than that shes all 4 way taper, be it backsawn or quarter cut makes no difference.
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PAmizerman

A vast majority of what I saw is 1" hemlock boards. I don't worry about centering the pith. The only time I "center
The pith is on slabs and beams. Well maybe I do. I center the pith on the face I can see. So if I want 1x10's I'll go up 5 inches from the pith to get my target width but I don't worry about where the pith is on the opposite end of the log or where it lands as I pattern down.

Centering is kinda a loose term it is actually just getting it the same equadiatstance from the blade. Most of us that have been around sawing for a while understand that but just wanted to clarify for any new guys. 

So which button do I check? :D
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JB Griffin

Myself and all other real sawyers in my area take half the taper out of the log. Don't care where the heart is. 

I will add that we are tie mills that saw grade too.
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DPatton

cwimer973,

To be honest I didn't vote in the poll because of how it is currently worded. In my mind I don't feel the question is valid as it lacks clarification of what type of product is being sawn. I suggest you modify the question to ask who centers the pith while sawing a certain type of cut, such as live edge slabs or timber frame beams or board and batten siding or quarter sawn boards, etc. etc. etc....hope this make sense.
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Magicman

(I had to leave at 6:00 in order to get my 14 mile bicycle ride in before night/dark.)

Now as has been eluded to, your target cut list will determine how the log is set up for the initial face opening.  My picture above, illustrates that the pith will almost always be centered and my goal is to have that pith centered in my (center) cant for saw through.  If it is off from end to end, then I have to make a decision based on experience.

The "rules" for sawing framing lumber is much different than for sawing hardwood grade lumber.  Bow is generally acceptable with framing lumber because structural lumber can be "straightened" whereas using a crooked board may present a challenge. 

No one wants bowed grade lumber and crook can be edged straight.

Your initial face opening will determine whether your lumber will bow, crook, or twist.  I do not see sawing as a "one size fits all".
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Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

PAmizerman

Quote from: DPatton on September 18, 2018, 10:06:39 PM
cwimer973,

To be honest I didn't vote in the poll because of how it is currently worded. In my mind I don't feel the question is valid as it lacks clarification of what type of product is being sawn. I suggest you modify the question to ask who centers the pith while sawing a certain type of cut, such as live edge slabs or timber frame beams or board and batten siding or quarter sawn boards, etc. etc. etc....hope this make sense.
I did not vote either because my answer is yes, no, sometimes and it depends.
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Ljohnsaw

I voted yes because I'm sawing softwoods (pine & cedar) making beams and posts.  I do generate a LOT of side lumber as well.  If I get down to just sawing 1x I can see just flat sawing (I think that's what its called), parallel to the bark to get the most/longest boards.
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Percy

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Brad_bb

Always.  I cut beams mostly so I want to symmetrically box the heart.  Sometimes the log is not straight, is wonky, or the pith wanders.  In that case do the best you can, and sometimes to get the size you want out of it, you may have to allow it to be offset a little on one end.  I try to leave at least 1/2 inch so if it moves in the first couple months, I can plane it straight.

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PA_Walnut

Kinda depends what it is and what I am cutting. Mostly yes, however.
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SawyerTed

Yes I "try" to center the pith.  Do I always get it right - no.  Do the logs cooperate - sometimes.  Often, in the logs I saw, the pith is centered on one end and off center on the other.  It is much easier to center the pith in the hardwoods I get than in the softwoods.
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Magicman

You must know and remember where the pith is/was in the squared cant before sawing through.  That is why I say; establish your target before opening a face.

If the above pictured log is sawed through from the 3 or 9 o'clock faces the lumber will tend to bow which would be OK for general purpose and framing lumber. 

If from the 12 or 6 o'clock faces the lumber will tend to crook which should edge out after drying. 

If it is sawed through from either of the other 4 quarters it will tend to twist so you are on your own.
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It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

mike_belben

Quote from: Magicman on September 18, 2018, 07:03:07 PM
Click the quote to see the log MM is referencing.  

Can you tell all that just from the end grain?  
Praise The Lord

Magicman

 

 

Sure, all of the log is the same age but notice that the growth rings are wider spaced on the left side of the pith and narrowly spaced on the right side.  Because a board sawed through from 12 or 6 o'clock will contain a portion of these uneven growth rings the board will crook.

Now looking at the growth rings on the 6 & 12 o'clock sides of the pith we see that they are very evenly spaced.  Boards sawed from the 3 or 9 o'clock faces will have even growth rings and will not tend to crook but because these boards have passed the plane of the pith twice, they will tend to bow.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

mike_belben

Welp, that was a pretty potent lesson.  Thank you sir. 
Praise The Lord

Brad_bb

Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Magicman

I suppose that you could call it that.  I prefer to use terms and definitions that are established  and yes, a crooked board would have a crown but I would not call it a crown board.

Wikipedia:  Wood warping - Wikipedia
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

OffGrid973

Thank you team for the responses, ok figured it wasn't an easy Answer.

For those who couldn't answer (like being difficult :) ) I put you down as yes since you already thought about it to much to select NO.

So far I have learned that it's important and next time I have a crook I can investigate growth rings on both sides.  Of course Brad I would PM you a pic of my crown :)

Good topic, if any other pith'y topics are sparked please include them.
Your Fellow Woodworker,
- Off Grid

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